Re: The Chicago Bears Offseason Thread

[SpongeWorthy]

Peter King is doing team rankings already. The Bears are 25th. Guess which position concerns Mr King the most? 3 guesses, first 2 don't count.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/05/02/rankings/3.html

 

I've seen a variation of the following statements all offseason:

 

The Bears can't win with Rex (or Orton) at QB.

Rex has proven he can't compete in the NFL.

It's obvious the Bears could never have success in the postseason with a QB like Rex at the helm.

 

While it's perfectly sane and rational to have doubts about the Bears, Rex and Orton, and it is not out of the realm of possibility to imagine the Bears struggling to win 7 games next year, why do people have to ignore the simple facts in this case?

 

The Chicago Bears have won 21 NFL regular season games with Grossman at QB, losing 11. They have won multiple playoff games including an NFC championship game with Rex at Qb. They have won 12 games, and lost 6, with Kyle Orton at QB.

 

When discussing the Bears QB situation it is fairly obvious that they have struggled. There are major questions and no sure things at the position. But the suggestion that it is not possible for the Chicago Bears to enjoy any success with these 2 QBs in charge is simply contrary to any and all facts available. They have enjoyed success under these guys, and therefore, it very clearly is possible for them to enjoy future success. Whether they won because of, or in spite of these two players is meaningless.

 

This is not meant as an endorsement of either player. I would love to get a real improvement over both Kyle and Rex. But it is absolutely ridiculous to go on pretending it's impossible for the Bears to win NFL games, regular season or postseason, with these guys playing. It's happened before and can happen again.

 

Having quarterbacks as awful as Grossman and Orton is an uphill proposition to begin with. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that poor quarterback play (and that's all we're ever going to get out of Grossman--the. guy. can't. play.) is going to scuttle this team's endeavors moving forward.

 

Did we have a modicum of success with Orton and Grossman? Sure, we had a stellar defense and outstanding special teams play. The division being pathetically weak helped a ton too. Green Bay has improved tremendously and Minnesota at least looks quite a bit stronger.

 

Is a strong defense still in the fold? Possibly. We all know how injury riddled it was last year and we still won a decent amount of ball games.

 

The difficutly for the Bears in returning to 2005-2006 levels is that it requires a lot of things to go right. A return of the opportunistic defense, a decent running attack, continued special teams excellence, a string of good luck, favorable divisional conditions, health, coaching staff stability are all going to be necessary. Could we regain all of those things in one season? It's possible, but unlikely and the main components of what made us successful in the first place are all a little bit older with a little bit more tread on the tires.

 

Good quarterback play would help cover a lot of that up. It always does. But we're not going to get it out of Grossman or Orton. I think that's obvious.

 

I do agree with you that proclaiming the Bears as contenders dead is primarily media histrionics at this point. Then again, I'd rather have that as some sort of training camp motivator than have everyone salivating over our prospects. We know how that turned out.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

Peter King is doing team rankings already. The Bears are 25th. Guess which position concerns Mr King the most? 3 guesses, first 2 don't count.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/05/02/rankings/3.html

 

I've seen a variation of the following statements all offseason:

 

The Bears can't win with Rex (or Orton) at QB.

Rex has proven he can't compete in the NFL.

It's obvious the Bears could never have success in the postseason with a QB like Rex at the helm.

 

While it's perfectly sane and rational to have doubts about the Bears, Rex and Orton, and it is not out of the realm of possibility to imagine the Bears struggling to win 7 games next year, why do people have to ignore the simple facts in this case?

 

The Chicago Bears have won 21 NFL regular season games with Grossman at QB, losing 11. They have won multiple playoff games including an NFC championship game with Rex at Qb. They have won 12 games, and lost 6, with Kyle Orton at QB.

 

When discussing the Bears QB situation it is fairly obvious that they have struggled. There are major questions and no sure things at the position. But the suggestion that it is not possible for the Chicago Bears to enjoy any success with these 2 QBs in charge is simply contrary to any and all facts available. They have enjoyed success under these guys, and therefore, it very clearly is possible for them to enjoy future success. Whether they won because of, or in spite of these two players is meaningless.

 

This is not meant as an endorsement of either player. I would love to get a real improvement over both Kyle and Rex. But it is absolutely ridiculous to go on pretending it's impossible for the Bears to win NFL games, regular season or postseason, with these guys playing. It's happened before and can happen again.

 

Having quarterbacks as awful as Grossman and Orton is an uphill proposition to begin with. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that poor quarterback play (and that's all we're ever going to get out of Grossman--the. guy. can't. play.) is going to scuttle this team's endeavors moving forward.

 

Did we have a modicum of success with Orton and Grossman? Sure, we had a stellar defense and outstanding special teams play. The division being pathetically weak helped a ton too. Green Bay has improved tremendously and Minnesota at least looks quite a bit stronger.

 

Is a strong defense still in the fold? Possibly. We all know how injury riddled it was last year and we still won a decent amount of ball games.

 

The difficutly for the Bears in returning to 2005-2006 levels is that it requires a lot of things to go right. A return of the opportunistic defense, a decent running attack, continued special teams excellence, a string of good luck, favorable divisional conditions, health, coaching staff stability are all going to be necessary. Could we regain all of those things in one season? It's possible, but unlikely and the main components of what made us successful in the first place are all a little bit older with a little bit more tread on the tires.

 

Good quarterback play would help cover a lot of that up. It always does. But we're not going to get it out of Grossman or Orton. I think that's obvious.

 

I do agree with you that proclaiming the Bears as contenders dead is primarily media histrionics at this point. Then again, I'd rather have that as some sort of training camp motivator than have everyone salivating over our prospects. We know how that turned out.

this post is not sponge worthy

[minnesotacubsfan]

so I've been in Seattle all week and been out of the loop, but whats going on with Benson? he's claiming police abuse\brutality?

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3388183

[minnesotacubsfan]

Archuleta is gone per Rotoworld and CSN :yahoo:

 

yeaaaaa!!1 (late I know, but woo hoo)

[Soul]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg258/thegreatersean/lloydduck.gif

 

I remember seeing this play and thinking "this guy doesn't belong in the NFL."

 

And now he's a Bear. Joy. I forsee much consternation from Bear fans over Lloyd.

[Chocolate Milk]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg258/thegreatersean/lloydduck.gif

 

I remember seeing this play and thinking "this guy doesn't belong in the NFL."

 

And now he's a Bear. Joy. I forsee much consternation from Bear fans over Lloyd.

There is a decent chance he won't even make the team.

[RedFlash]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg258/thegreatersean/lloydduck.gif

 

I remember seeing this play and thinking "this guy doesn't belong in the NFL."

 

And now he's a Bear. Joy. I forsee much consternation from Bear fans over Lloyd.

There is a decent chance he won't even make the team.

 

I would say there is more then 60% chances of him not making the team. I expect in mini-camp that guys like Bennett/Monk/Hester/Hass/Rideau should all out play him. (Davis and Booker---based on contracts---are guarantee spots) When your best trait as a player is that "you know the system", that doesn't bode well at all. Lloyd, IMO, is a training camp body, nothing more/nothing less.

[Soul]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg258/thegreatersean/lloydduck.gif

 

I remember seeing this play and thinking "this guy doesn't belong in the NFL."

 

And now he's a Bear. Joy. I forsee much consternation from Bear fans over Lloyd.

There is a decent chance he won't even make the team.

 

I would say there is more then 60% chances of him not making the team. I expect in mini-camp that guys like Bennett/Monk/Hester/Hass/Rideau should all out play him. (Davis and Booker---based on contracts---are guarantee spots) When your best trait as a player is that "you know the system", that doesn't bode well at all. Lloyd, IMO, is a training camp body, nothing more/nothing less.

 

I hope so. I'd rather give those "TC fodder" positions to young players who might have some prayer of an upside in the future, but no matter.

 

I'm also not a big fan of these "re-unite the coach & player" moves. I don't see any evidence that an otherwise poor player will somehow contribute just because he knew the coach a long time ago, yet these sorts of moves remain popular.

[minnesotacubsfan]

so Haugh thinks Benson's arrest will motivate him:

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-080510-david-haugh-cedric-benson-chicago-bears,1,4047951.column

[Soul]

I dunno man, I think I'm ready to move on from the Benson era. But if he somehow comes in and blows everyone away it certainly wouldn't hurt him. We'll see.

[jaydee]

I dunno man, I think I'm ready to move on from the Benson era. But if he somehow comes in and blows everyone away it certainly wouldn't hurt him. We'll see.

 

I don't understand why everyone is so down on Benson. Its not like he was put into a very good situation to succeed last year. What good is cutting him when he is at worst going to be your second best RB.

[Flames24Rulz]

I dunno man, I think I'm ready to move on from the Benson era. But if he somehow comes in and blows everyone away it certainly wouldn't hurt him. We'll see.

 

I don't understand why everyone is so down on Benson. Its not like he was put into a very good situation to succeed last year. What good is cutting him when he is at worst going to be your second best RB.

 

Exactly.

 

NO ONE would've been able to run behind that offensive line last year. Absolutely no one. LT would've been shut down running behind those tackles and guards. People have to understand that the offensive line is the MOST important part of the football team. Want to know why Tom Brady is so good? Look at all of the time he has to throw the ball. Any QB in the NFL could be a good quarterback if they have that extra second or two to sit back and read the defense. The same goes with running backs too.

 

Give Benson another shot next year. I really thought he was much better than Thomas Jones was in 2006 and I still think that he could be a productive back in the league.

[Banedon]

I dunno man, I think I'm ready to move on from the Benson era. But if he somehow comes in and blows everyone away it certainly wouldn't hurt him. We'll see.

 

I don't understand why everyone is so down on Benson. Its not like he was put into a very good situation to succeed last year. What good is cutting him when he is at worst going to be your second best RB.

 

The good is salary savings. He's getting paid an awful lot to be a backup, and if Forte is better, that's where you're going to end up. If salary is not an issue, then yeah...there's no problem hanging on to him.

[Soul]

I dunno man, I think I'm ready to move on from the Benson era. But if he somehow comes in and blows everyone away it certainly wouldn't hurt him. We'll see.

 

I don't understand why everyone is so down on Benson. Its not like he was put into a very good situation to succeed last year. What good is cutting him when he is at worst going to be your second best RB.

 

Exactly.

 

NO ONE would've been able to run behind that offensive line last year. Absolutely no one. LT would've been shut down running behind those tackles and guards. People have to understand that the offensive line is the MOST important part of the football team. Want to know why Tom Brady is so good? Look at all of the time he has to throw the ball. Any QB in the NFL could be a good quarterback if they have that extra second or two to sit back and read the defense. The same goes with running backs too.

 

Give Benson another shot next year. I really thought he was much better than Thomas Jones was in 2006 and I still think that he could be a productive back in the league.

 

He was at least as good as TJ in '06, but last year he slowed down considerably. He just looked much slower, much less decisive. He wasn't hitting holes as quickly, wasn't running or cutting as quickly. Just slower. Maybe he can get it back, I don't know.

[jersey cubs fan]

I dunno man, I think I'm ready to move on from the Benson era. But if he somehow comes in and blows everyone away it certainly wouldn't hurt him. We'll see.

 

I don't understand why everyone is so down on Benson. Its not like he was put into a very good situation to succeed last year. What good is cutting him when he is at worst going to be your second best RB.

 

The good is salary savings. He's getting paid an awful lot to be a backup, and if Forte is better, that's where you're going to end up. If salary is not an issue, then yeah...there's no problem hanging on to him.

 

I don't think the salary savings are significant. The team isn't in cap trouble. But they'd still take somewhat of a cap hit by cutting Benson.

 

I don't get how anybody could question why people are down on Benson. He was a 4th overall pick who hasn't come close to living up to the selection or the salary. He's been a tremendous disappointment. That being said, I'm all for keeping him around at least through training camp, unless he shows the team nothing before then.

[rawaction]

Benson not gonna be cut....at least not for his arrest.

 

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=4682

[Soul]

Benson not gonna be cut....at least not for his arrest.

 

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=4682

 

Near the end of that article is an interesting witness report:

 

Toby Patch, who was not on the boat, told KXAN-TV in Austin that Benson was being "manhandled a little bit" by police.

 

"As they were taking him up the dock, they stopped. He said, 'I am fine, I can continue walking,' and they put their legs behind his knees and knocked him over his knees and started hog-carrying him," Patch said.

 

That would certainly seem to back up Benson's side of the story.

[Jon]

The Bears signed Robbie Gould to a 5-year extension. There are no details available yet.

[UMFan83]

The Bears signed Robbie Gould to a 5-year extension. There are no details available yet.

 

Great, maybe the primadonna will actually show up for voluntary workouts now.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Bears signed Robbie Gould to a 5-year extension. There are no details available yet.

 

I wouldn't have minded seeing him walk. Robbie doesn't kick off worth a crap, and while he's got a nice FG%, he either can't kick long ones or the coaching staff doesn't let him kick long ones. They never seem to take a chance on 48+ yard kicks. He wasn't any good in 2005, he had a very nice percentage in 2006 and was just above average in 2007. Nothing special. Hopefully it's extremely team friendly.

[jersey cubs fan]

Now that I actually read the story I see "highest paid kicker".

 

That's ridiculous. Robbie is not the best kicker in the league.

[rawaction]

The Bears signed Robbie Gould to a 5-year extension. There are no details available yet.

 

I wouldn't have minded seeing him walk. Robbie doesn't kick off worth a crap, and while he's got a nice FG%, he either can't kick long ones or the coaching staff doesn't let him kick long ones. They never seem to take a chance on 48+ yard kicks. He wasn't any good in 2005, he had a very nice percentage in 2006 and was just above average in 2007. Nothing special. Hopefully it's extremely team friendly.

 

Agreed. He's just an OK kicker. He was great in 06, but still didn't hit the long ones. Should never spend big money on a kicker, even if it's Adam Vinateri.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

What a stupid signing.

[Magnetic Curses]

giving money to a kicker while a couple core players are either unhappy or not not extended yet. makes perfect sense.

[cubweiser03]

The Bears signed Robbie Gould to a 5-year extension. There are no details available yet.

 

I wouldn't have minded seeing him walk. Robbie doesn't kick off worth a crap, and while he's got a nice FG%, he either can't kick long ones or the coaching staff doesn't let him kick long ones. They never seem to take a chance on 48+ yard kicks. He wasn't any good in 2005, he had a very nice percentage in 2006 and was just above average in 2007. Nothing special. Hopefully it's extremely team friendly.

 

You know i remember you saying before that he sucked like crap kicking off and i was like 'he aint that bad' but when you said that then i investigated the stats and he does indeed suck...like league worst or almost worst. But yes his FG% is good and thats weighs more to me but $ per $ this is high. With the Bears defense im not upset they dont go for long field goals, i prefer the opposing offense to work their way down the field, so im not to strongly opposed to his lack of FG length.

 

Ive read the extension equates to $2.5M per and there are incentive included in that deal. What those incentives are could be important in determining the true value.