What would B.Roberts and Fukudome do to help the offense?

[Mephistopheles]

No.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Why?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Maybe the better question is, what would adding Roberts and selling high on DeRosa do to help the offense/team?

[pitchcs]

Considering the cubs financial obligations, i guess i can understand not going for a big name, but getting 2 marginal upgrades on the field while doing nearly nothing to the rotation does not seem like a "Plan for Winning" to me.

 

 

Call me skeptical....

 

I don't get the thinking that anything more than marginal upgrades is truly available. People can throw out names of upgrades, but if those players aren't truly available, it's just xbox nonsense.

 

Besides Cabrera and Rodriguez, what significant upgrade names are/were truly out there to be had? And are/were they worth the handful of MLB talent prospects the club has (or do the Cubs even have what it takes)?

 

My point is this: if Hendry can't acquire one of the handful of names that represent significant upgrades, then he is best served making marginal upgrades in several places.

 

By adding Roberts and Fukudome, using DeRosa at 400+ ABs as a supersub, and giving the Catching duties to Soto, you've made upgrades in 4 places from the division winning team of last year and you've held onto your top young MLB-level talent in Hill, Marmol, and Pie.

 

It's not grade A off season, but it's not a failure either if it happens this way.

 

To me, Roberts and Fukudome would be a solid offseason (Grade B). You're right, what else is realistically out there to go acquire?

[Mephistopheles]

Why?

 

because getting to second does not mean all that much period. If Roberts went 30 for 30 in SB...(a ridiculous 100% success rate)....he would add about five and a half runs from the steals. That is not a significant number....and that's if he went 30 for 30!

[biittner77]

I would be ecstatic if Pie became as good as Brett Butler.

 

I'd be happy with that too. But if we're going to make Pie into something he's not, and very likely never will be let's make him into mid 1990s Sosa.

[Elrhino]

For eons we've all beaten our heads against the wall because Hendry has completely dismissed the importance of .OBP, especially in front of our run producers in the middle of the lineup, and then Hendry (theoretically) makes two moves that would dramatically improve the .OBP at the top of the lineup and shows signs that he might be evolving and turning the corner and we're still ready to crucify him. Isn't it pretty obvious that there's absolutely nothing Hendry could REALISTICALLY do to make some people happy at this point?

 

Lou was kvetching late during the year about the lack of .obp at the top of the lineup, lamenting that you can't just tell guys who have been free swingers their entire career to start taking walks. It's something you have to address in the offseason, and I really wouldn't be shocked at all to see both Roberts and Fukudome persued to bat #1 and #2 in the lineup. Hendry seem to go out of his way to get what his manager wants, for better or worse in the case of Dusty, and when he locks on the goal he's pretty steadfast.

 

I see the lineup as follows

 

2B Roberts

RF Fukudome

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

LF Soriano

C Soto

CF Pie

SS Theriot

 

I'm not saying I would have Theriot start at SS over DeRo, that's just what I see the most likely scenerio.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Elrhino

[minnesotacubsfan]

Why?

 

because getting to second does not mean all that much period. If Roberts went 30 for 30 in SB...(a ridiculous 100% success rate)....he would add about five and a half runs from the steals. That is not a significant number....and that's if he went 30 for 30!

 

interesting

 

 

so how far does that drop if you use is typical sb/cs rate?

[Mephistopheles]

break even is anywhere between 65-80 depending on the park, league, team, etc. given that he will play on a team with a lot of slugging dependent hitters behind him in a park that is advantageous to home runs, it's likely that the breakeven point for him on the Cubs will be right around the 78-80 mark

[minnesotacubsfan]

break even is anywhere between 65-80 depending on the park, league, team, etc. given that he will play on a team with a lot of slugging dependent hitters behind him in a park that is advantageous to home runs, it's likely that the breakeven point for him on the Cubs will be right around the 78-80 mark

 

 

ah...

[OleMissCub]

because getting to second does not mean all that much period.

 

It does when you are 13. *zing*

[RammyFanny]

because getting to second does not mean all that much period. If Roberts went 30 for 30 in SB...(a ridiculous 100% success rate)....he would add about five and a half runs from the steals. That is not a significant number....and that's if he went 30 for 30!

What stats do you use to determine that though? Orioles offensive numbers, league offensive numbers?

[jersey cubs fan]

Isn't it pretty obvious that there's absolutely nothing Hendry could REALISTICALLY do to make some people happy at this point?

 

No, not at all.

 

But when you say "at this point", you bring up a good point. The Cubs are in the position they are in at this point, because of how badly Hendry has screwed up in the past. So even a couple good moves wouldn't be enough to offset the big picture mess that has been the Hendry era.

[Mephistopheles]

i used league averages.

 

 

he added about 7 runs or so to the birds with his steals last year, 50 for 57 right? 50 for 57 is a ridiculous success rate, as you all know and it is not something that he is likely to reproduce. Over his career for 57 SBA he's thrown out 12 times. Based on those numbers, he would be expected to add five or so runs per 57 SBAs to an average team. A little less for the Cubbies.

[Mephistopheles]

Isn't it pretty obvious that there's absolutely nothing Hendry could REALISTICALLY do to make some people happy at this point?

 

Trade Pie for Greene

[BigbadB]

Isn't it pretty obvious that there's absolutely nothing Hendry could REALISTICALLY do to make some people happy at this point?

 

Hendry could do something that would make us all jump up and down with joy. He could fire himself.

 

Besides that, let's analyze what he's done to "this point". He's traded a left handed hitting outfielder and a reliever for 2 minor league relievers.

 

2 years ago Hendry put all of his eggs in Rafael Furcal's basket and ended up signing guys like Jeromy Burnitz. Last year sort of worked out even though he really put all of his eggs in Alfonso Soriano's basket. This year, he's placing all of his eggs in Fukudome's basket. If we don't get this guy, we're going to have Sam Fuld patrolling RF.

 

Teams that want to improve don't sit around watching what everyone else is doing. Anaheim played games and watched Detroit come in and swoop up on Miguel Cabrera.

 

The time Hendry spent going after Kazuo Matsui would have been better spent going after someone good. But, I'm not convinced Jim Hendry really knows what good really is. Oh wait, good is a speedy lefty hitting outfielder or a guy who can catch the ball. I keep forgetting these things.

[YearofDaCubs]

These are the moves I would love to see:

 

Get rid of Marquis

Get rid of Dempster

Trade for Bedard

Trade for Tejada

Trade for Teahen

Sign Fukudome

 

Obviously, I doubt all of these things will happen but I think each one is a step in the right direction.

[CyHawk_Cub]

These are the moves I would love to see:

 

Get rid of Marquis

Get rid of Dempster

Trade for Bedard

Trade for Tejada

Trade for Teahen

Sign Fukudome

 

Obviously, I doubt all of these things will happen but I think each one is a step in the right direction.

 

At this point, and given who the Cubs' GM is, I'd settle for any one of those happening...

[sneakypower]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Discrepancy in defense?

Speed- ok, but marginal upgrade at best, I guess

Lineup balance- The year that lineup balance becomes important will be the first year it's been important.

 

Marginal upgrade yes, but any upgrade is good. The question is the cost. Fukudome fills a position of need. Roberts, not so much. I'm not necessarily against it though.

 

Admittedly, I don't have much to go on for Fuku other than the reports I've read and a few scattered video clips, but all indications he'd be a monumental upgrade over Murton, who's a butcher in RF.

 

“Fukudome is one of the better athletes playing in Japan. He is capable of playing center field and right field...20–30 HR, 80–100 RBI and 10 SB.” - Scout Mike Pagliarulo

"He plays very hard; he’ll be strong defensively in right field, where he has a great arm, very similar to Ichiro" - MLB team official

 

Replacing one of the worst defensive RFs in the league with a terrific fielder (trusting the reports) will have a profound effect, especially at Wrigley, one of the tougher RFs to play in the game, and would be a huge benefit for Lilly and Hill's flyball tendencies.

 

Roberts would be an upgrade defensively, but 2B is too unimportant defensively and the gap in talent too marginal to mention. However, the speed difference between the two is about as stark a contrast as you can get. Having Roberts on base instead of Derosa would factor into play different pitches the following hitters will be seeing, as well as easier RBI opportunities when he steals bases and takes the extra base.

 

There's no easily quantifiable area where the replacement of Derosa and Murton with Roberts and Fukudome, but factoring the vastly improved RF defense, significant speed upgrade at 2nd, in addition to half a dozen other smaller but not insignificant factors (reliable production, added speed and power in RF, improved bench, added LH balance to order, we'd be a significantly improved team with the addition of Roberts and Fukudome.

 

... added lineup balance would be a significant difference for the team.

 

I can't believe I'd need to say this, but speed shows up in many more areas than SB.

 

Leave it to the guy with the caveman avatar to talk about speediness and lineup balance.

I can't say I didn't expect a response like this.

[Mephistopheles]

Personally, I don't like taking candy from a baby.

[JimSorgi]

These are the moves I would love to see:

 

Get rid of Marquis

Get rid of Dempster

Trade for Bedard

Trade for Tejada

Trade for Teahen

Sign Fukudome

 

Obviously, I doubt all of these things will happen but I think each one is a step in the right direction.

That would be a pretty good offseason.

[sneakypower]

Isn't it pretty obvious that there's absolutely nothing Hendry could REALISTICALLY do to make some people happy at this point?

 

No, not at all.

 

But when you say "at this point", you bring up a good point. The Cubs are in the position they are in at this point, because of how badly Hendry has screwed up in the past. So even a couple good moves wouldn't be enough to offset the big picture mess that has been the Hendry era.

 

What is "The position they are in"? The team that finished the regular season 55-38 in their last 91 games, one of the best teams in baseball during that stretch? Despite underperforming from the three offensive stars, and disappointing season from the #1 starter. We'll play out next season with a significant upgrade at catcher, and likely upgrades in the CF & RF, all the while losing very little production elsewhere. I guess I don't share the dire outlook that others do.

 

Isn't it pretty obvious that there's absolutely nothing Hendry could REALISTICALLY do to make some people happy at this point?

 

Trade Pie for Greene

 

Oooof. Are we really that down on Pie that we want to ship him out of town for crap like Khalil Greene??

[RammyFanny]

Isn't it pretty obvious that there's absolutely nothing Hendry could REALISTICALLY do to make some people happy at this point?

 

No, not at all.

 

But when you say "at this point", you bring up a good point. The Cubs are in the position they are in at this point, because of how badly Hendry has screwed up in the past. So even a couple good moves wouldn't be enough to offset the big picture mess that has been the Hendry era.

 

What is "The position they are in"? The team that finished the regular season 55-38 in their last 91 games, one of the best teams in baseball during that stretch? Despite underperforming from the three offensive stars, and disappointing season from the #1 starter. We'll play out next season with a significant upgrade at catcher, and likely upgrades in the CF & RF, all the while losing very little production elsewhere. I guess I don't share the dire outlook that others do.

 

Isn't it pretty obvious that there's absolutely nothing Hendry could REALISTICALLY do to make some people happy at this point?

 

Trade Pie for Greene

 

Oooof. Are we really that down on Pie that we want to ship him out of town for crap like Khalil Greene??

I sense a large rant from Meph coming that I will agree with.

[Mephistopheles]

Isn't it pretty obvious that there's absolutely nothing Hendry could REALISTICALLY do to make some people happy at this point?

 

No, not at all.

 

But when you say "at this point", you bring up a good point. The Cubs are in the position they are in at this point, because of how badly Hendry has screwed up in the past. So even a couple good moves wouldn't be enough to offset the big picture mess that has been the Hendry era.

 

What is "The position they are in"? The team that finished the regular season 55-38 in their last 91 games, one of the best teams in baseball during that stretch? Despite underperforming from the three offensive stars, and disappointing season from the #1 starter. We'll play out next season with a significant upgrade at catcher, and likely upgrades in the CF & RF, all the while losing very little production elsewhere. I guess I don't share the dire outlook that others do.

 

Isn't it pretty obvious that there's absolutely nothing Hendry could REALISTICALLY do to make some people happy at this point?

 

Trade Pie for Greene

 

Oooof. Are we really that down on Pie that we want to ship him out of town for crap like Khalil Greene??

 

like i said earlier i dont take candy from a baby. just take what i say as fact. it will be easier.

[Geech]

I feel a little bit let down, actually.