MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[inari]

Theriot would be top 20.

 

 

 

Stephen Drew, Julio Lugo, Yuniesky Betancourt, Felipe Lopez, Jack Wilson, Jason Bartlett, Adam Everett, and of course, Khalil Greene

 

You sure?

Edited February 13, 2008 by inari

[DenverCubs]

Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Derek Jeter, Troy Tulowitzki, Miguel Tejada, Carlos Guillen, Michael Young, J.J. Hardy, Rafael Furcal, Orlando Cabrera, Edgar Renteria, and Jhonny Peralta. Those are 13 SS I would rather have than Greene on our team. Peralta and Greene are close. Greene might have the edge cuz of defense. Theriot isnt far behind. I think both are average.

SHORTSTOPS
Name                  Team(s)                 Pos  Out   PA    EQA    EQR   RAR   RAP   RARP
HANLEY RAMIREZ          FLA-N                   SS   449. 706.  0.315  125.0  68.1  51.3  70.9
JIMMY ROLLINS           PHI-N                   SS   516. 778.  0.290  116.9  51.5  32.6  55.0
JOSE REYES              NY_-N                   SS   517. 765.  0.278  105.3  39.7  20.8  43.3
DEREK JETER             NY_-A                   SS   446. 714.  0.285   96.5  39.9  23.5  42.9
EDGAR RENTERIA          ATL-N                   SS   334. 543.  0.297   80.4  38.0  25.5  40.1
CARLOS GUILLEN          DET-A                   SS   413. 630.  0.283   88.4  36.0  17.2  36.2
TROY TULOWITZKI         COL-N                   SS   445. 682.  0.272   86.0  29.5  13.3  32.6
MIKE YOUNG              TEX-A                   SS   442. 692.  0.270   83.9  27.9  11.0  30.4
KHALIL GREENE           SD_-N                   SS   467. 659.  0.263   82.9  23.7   6.6  26.9
MIGUEL TEJADA           BAL-A                   SS   366. 568.  0.271   70.0  23.6   9.2  25.4
ORLANDO CABRERA         LA_-A                   SS   464. 701.  0.260   79.7  20.9   3.6  23.9
JACK WILSON             PIT-N                   SS   355. 535.  0.269   66.7  21.7   8.2  23.8
BRENDAN HARRIS          TB_-A                   SS   382. 576.  0.267   70.4  21.9   6.7  23.6
J.J. HARDY              MIL-N                   SS   436. 638.  0.261   75.9  20.6   4.4  23.4
YUNEL ESCOBAR           ATL-N                   SS   222. 355.  0.289   49.8  21.6  11.9  22.0
JHONNY PERALTA          CLE-A                   SS   431. 647.  0.259   73.6  19.0   3.2  21.9
DAVID ECKSTEIN          STL-N                   SS   315. 484.  0.266   57.5  17.6   5.7  19.5
JEFF KEPPINGER          CIN-N                   SS   169. 276.  0.293   39.1  17.7  10.3  18.0
JASON BARTLETT          MIN-A                   SS   380. 570.  0.253   61.0  12.7  -1.4  15.2
ALEX GONZALEZ           CIN-N                   SS   292. 430.  0.260   50.3  13.3   1.8  14.7
CRISTIAN GUZMAN         WAS-N                   SS   119. 192.  0.297   28.7  13.6   9.0  14.2
YUNIESKY BETANCOURT     SEA-A                   SS   392. 559.  0.248   59.9  10.2  -4.5  12.7
RAFAEL FURCAL           LA_-N                   SS   435. 642.  0.244   64.1   8.9  -7.0  12.0
MARK LORETTA            HOU-N                   SS   334. 511.  0.254   54.3  11.9  -4.1  11.4
FELIPE LOPEZ            WAS-N                   SS   475. 671.  0.239   66.3   6.0 -12.4   8.6
BRENDAN RYAN            STL-N                   SS   131. 199.  0.269   24.6   8.0   1.8   7.9
RYAN THERIOT            CHI-N                   SS   409. 597.  0.238   56.8   4.9 -11.7   6.5
STEPHEN DREW            ARI-N                   SS   427. 619.  0.236   57.9   3.7 -12.3   6.4

These are sorted by RARP (runs above replacement player). Kind of arbitrary, but you can see that by almost every stat, they are not close.

[Ryno12]

Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Derek Jeter, Troy Tulowitzki, Miguel Tejada, Carlos Guillen, Michael Young, J.J. Hardy, Rafael Furcal, Orlando Cabrera, Edgar Renteria, and Jhonny Peralta. Those are 13 SS I would rather have than Greene on our team. Peralta and Greene are close. Greene might have the edge cuz of defense. Theriot isnt far behind. I think both are average.

 

Carlos Guillen is no longer a SS.

 

...and Tejada shouldn't be. However, he still is, so this post was probably just a waste of space.

[fromthestretch]

Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Derek Jeter, Troy Tulowitzki, Miguel Tejada, Carlos Guillen, Michael Young, J.J. Hardy, Rafael Furcal, Orlando Cabrera, Edgar Renteria, and Jhonny Peralta. Those are 13 SS I would rather have than Greene on our team. Peralta and Greene are close. Greene might have the edge cuz of defense. Theriot isnt far behind. I think both are average.

 

Carlos Guillen is no longer a SS.

 

I'd still put him at SS over Greene. Just like I'd put DeRosa at SS over Greene.

 

That wouldn't be wise. While I might prefer Guillen offensively to Greene, Guillen is very much a defensive liability...to the point where his offensive advantage might be nullified.

[Backtobanks]

Wasn't this thread, a really long time ago, about a possible Brian Roberts trade? Sorry, I always struggled with Ancient History back in the day.

 

I don't know why one of the moderators doesn't end this thread. Reading posts where two people are arguing about something that doesn't have anything to do with the topic is ridiculous. The Cubs won't be acquiring Greene or Peralta. If the Roberts trade happens, he will bat leadoff, until then Soriano bats leadoff. It doesn't matter whether we agree or not, the only opinion that matters is Piniella's.

[Burtonbell]

Theriot would be top 20.

 

 

 

Stephen Drew, Julio Lugo, Yuniesky Betancourt, Felipe Lopez, Jack Wilson, Jason Bartlett, Adam Everett, and of course, Khalil Greene

 

You sure?

 

Dude, none of those guys have speed or can leadoff!

[DeuceBaseman]

Theriot would be top 20.

 

 

 

Stephen Drew, Julio Lugo, Yuniesky Betancourt, Felipe Lopez, Jack Wilson, Jason Bartlett, Adam Everett, and of course, Khalil Greene

 

You sure?

 

Yes I am, I'd take Theriot over Wilson, Bartlett, Everett for sure. That still leaves Theriot top 20.

[fromthestretch]

Wasn't this thread, a really long time ago, about a possible Brian Roberts trade? Sorry, I always struggled with Ancient History back in the day.

 

I don't know why one of the moderators doesn't end this thread. Reading posts where two people are arguing about something that doesn't have anything to do with the topic is ridiculous. The Cubs won't be acquiring Greene or Peralta. If the Roberts trade happens, he will bat leadoff, until then Soriano bats leadoff. It doesn't matter whether we agree or not, the only opinion that matters is Piniella's.

 

Chances are they won't be acquiring anyone you post about in your three-way trade proposals either, but I don't see anyone telling you to stop posting them.

 

While the SS discussion has probably gone a little too far, the original intent was to point out that acquiring someone because they're an according to Hoyle "leadoff" hitter is ridiculous. If their skills help the team, they help the team regardless of where the person bats.

[inari]

Theriot would be top 20.

 

 

 

Stephen Drew, Julio Lugo, Yuniesky Betancourt, Felipe Lopez, Jack Wilson, Jason Bartlett, Adam Everett, and of course, Khalil Greene

 

You sure?

 

Yes I am, I'd take Theriot over Wilson, Bartlett, Everett for sure. That still leaves Theriot top 20.

 

And still leaves Greene as much better, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

[Sammy Sofa]

Theriot would be top 20.

 

No, that's completely wrong. I'm sorry, but that's just not realistic. Theriot ranks right near, if not at, the bottom.

[DeuceBaseman]

Theriot would be top 20.

 

 

 

Stephen Drew, Julio Lugo, Yuniesky Betancourt, Felipe Lopez, Jack Wilson, Jason Bartlett, Adam Everett, and of course, Khalil Greene

 

You sure?

 

Yes I am, I'd take Theriot over Wilson, Bartlett, Everett for sure. That still leaves Theriot top 20.

 

And still leaves Greene as much better, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

Fine lets move to 2B then. The only 2B I would rather have over Roberts for next year are Utley, Cano, Phillips, and Upton. Then there are about 10 more I would have over DeRosa, and I like DeRosa.

[BigbadB]

I don't think the Soriano leadoff thing can be proven conclusively either way. The stats show that he has been better at leadoff, better still when leading off an inning, and better with nobody on base. At the same time, there are other factors in Texas that could have caused the problems when Soriano was hitting lower in the order.

As long as there is a significant question though, the Cubs should keep him there unless they find great options for both the #1 and #2 spots. Roberts/Theriot, which would be the Cubs most likely option if the trade for Roberts went through, doesn't cut it. The benefit of him moving down and Theriot moving up is minimal, and actually probably makes run production worse. The risk that it might be a problem is high. There's just no point in taking the risk for such little benefit.

 

All anyone really needs to do is read your post to figure out why at this time it makes absolutely zero sense to move Soriano out of the lead off spot with or without the addition of Brian Roberts. That, and what I'm about to add......

 

Fact: The difference between batting first and batting 6th last year for the Cubs roster was 83 plate appearances. If Roberts was batting 1st and Theriot was batting 2nd and Soriano was 6th behind Lee, Ramirez and Fukudome, do we really want Theriot (the $350K worse OBP than Soriano kid) getting 63 more plate appearances over the course of a season than Soriano? I sure don't.

 

Soriano was a better lead off hitter than Roberts last year, even with a poorer OBP. In another thread, I provided proof that Soriano scores more runs per at bat than Brian Roberts does. Nobody is banishing Roberts to the bottom of the order if Soriano leads off. Right now (and assuming Roberts became a Cub), the most ideal line up that the Cubs could send out there everyday is this:

 

Soriano

Roberts

Lee

Ramirez

Fukudome

Soto

Pie

Theriot

 

The best hitters on the team bat the most. Period. I just can't even begin to grasp how anyone could argue this. A Soriano lead off home run with no one on base is WAY, WAY, WAY better than Roberts getting a single and stealing 2nd base and Theriot grounding out to the 2b, even if it advances the runner. Soriano scored a run without any outs occuring. Soriano kept the inning alive, and after 8 more at bats, including at bats by many of the better hitters in the line up, he's due to bat again already. Granted, 7,8,9 in the line up will likely take away RBI opportunities for Soriano batting 1st, but so does taking 83 PA's over the course of a season. And in the later innings, you have guys like DeRosa and Ward and possibly even Murton (all with very respectable OBP's) who can PH for the pitcher and possibly get on base. If Pie and Theriot can improve their OBP's to somewhere in the neighborhood of .330/.340 respectively, combine that with those late inning pinch hitters and voila, an awesome situation for Soriano to not only get the most at bats of any player on the team, but lots of RBI opportunities as well.

 

This really isn't rocket science. It's making the best use of the cards you are dealt. And in no universe I want to be a part of is Ryan Theriot a better top of the order hitter than Soriano.

 

As CCP pointed out, the only real way to move Soriano out of the lead off spot is if you have two top of the order hitters who can outproduce Soriano, or at least 2 top of the order hitters that would make more sense to move Soriano down in the order. There were only a small handful of lead off hitters in baseball last year that were more productive than Soriano, and Brian Roberts wasn't one of them.

 

Only Hanley Ramirez had a better SLG from the lead off spot. Only Curtis Granderson and Hanley had a better OPS from the lead off spot. Several scored more runs than Soriano, but Soriano had way less PA because of injury last year. Even with the injury, Soriano had more home runs, was 2nd in doubles and 3rd in RBI when comparing all the lead off hitters in both leagues. Only Granderson and Rollins had more XBH's than Soriano, but Soriano would have ended up with more of those as well if given a full healthy season.

 

Getting on base is a good thing. No one will argue that. But, a home run is better than a single, a double, a triple, a walk or a HBP. But, Soriano doesn't just hit HR's. He also hits doubles. More doubles than Roberts hits. And Soriano steals bases when his hamstring isn't pissing him off.

 

Bottom line, this isn't about who is a better lead off hitter. It's about putting the best constructed line up on the field, and no matter how you slice it, Soriano/Roberts is WAY better than Roberts/Theriot. In fact, Soriano/Roberts just might be the most productive 1/2 in the entire league. That would be a thing of beauty for Mr. Lee, Mr. Ramirez and Mr. Fukudome.

[Sammy Sofa]

Wasn't this thread, a really long time ago, about a possible Brian Roberts trade? Sorry, I always struggled with Ancient History back in the day.

 

I don't know why one of the moderators doesn't end this thread. Reading posts where two people are arguing about something that doesn't have anything to do with the topic is ridiculous. The Cubs won't be acquiring Greene or Peralta. If the Roberts trade happens, he will bat leadoff, until then Soriano bats leadoff. It doesn't matter whether we agree or not, the only opinion that matters is Piniella's.

 

How do you know he would bat leadoff?

[DeuceBaseman]

Thats why you bat Fukudome 2nd and not Theriot.

[BigbadB]

Thats why you bat Fukudome 2nd and not Theriot.

 

No, it's not. I have yet to see an actual article that states the Cubs want Roberts to hit lead off. I have definitely seen articles that said that Hendry wants lefty hitters to split up the RH bats. Not only does putting Roberts and Fukudome 1/2 not split up any RH bats, it makes it even worse when you now have Lee, Ramirez, Soriano and Soto all batting in a row.

 

Granted, I'm not convinced that splitting up the righties is necessary and I'd probably be fine with Roberts, Fukudome, Lee, Ramirez and Soriano batting 1-5, but I don't see Piniella doing that.

 

One must also remember that for some strange reason, Cubs management thinks Theriot is productive.

[CubColtPacer]

Thats why you bat Fukudome 2nd and not Theriot.

 

The Cubs aren't going to spend all offseason though searching for left-handed hitters to break up the right-handed hitters and then bat them 1-2 in the order. That would mean you have two left-handers to start, and then 4 power right-handed hitters in a row.

 

Plus, even though I don't care about balancing right/left very much (too often managers put inferior players in slots they don't belong in order to do this), putting 2 left-handers in the top 2 spots of this lineup wouldn't be very good for game situations. The Cubs have one of the top pinch-hitters in the game today sitting on their bench who is also a left-hander. You put Roberts-Fukudome at the top, and it becomes way too easy to bring in a left-handed pitcher and neutralize all 3 of them. Granted, Roberts is a switch-hitter but he struggles the most against tough left-handers, Ward is useless against left-handers, and who knows about Fukudome.

[BigbadB]

Copied from the "Revisiting Joe Nathan" thread and never replied to:

 

there have been numerous articles written in the chicago papers & it's been on chicago radio numerous times that the cubs prefer to move soriano down in the order as he has leg issues & that he is not ideal leading off because he does not get on base at a high clip & he does not work the count. Contrast that with the effort put into getting Roberts who is a leadoff hitter & that is a pretty good deduction. I'd like to see someone promote the stat of how many first inning leads hold up & turn into a win. I'd much rather have Roberts get on via a walk or single, steal second & then come home on a Lee double, Sori single or aram homer in the first than to start the game w/ a 3 or 4 pitch strikeout to Soriano.

 

Can you provide a link to one of these articles where the Cubs prefer to move Soriano down in the order?

 

In your own words, you state the importance of good OBP to set up the production hitters. But, there are 2 guys who hit in front of these production hitters, not just one. And when you beg for Roberts to hit first, you are basically asking for Theriot to hit second as well. If you haven't looked lately, Theriot has a worse on base percentage than Soriano. So, if you had your choice, are you honestly saying you would rather have:

 

Roberts/Theriot batting 1/2

 

or

 

Soriano/Roberts batting 1/2?

 

I won't allow you to use Roberts/Fukudome in there because there have been plenty of articles published quoting Hendry as wanting a lefty bat to split up all the big righty bats.

 

And I'm honestly not making the following stat up.

 

Soriano in the first inning in 2007: 20 strike outs

Roberts in the first inning in 2007: 18 strike outs

 

Oh my, those 2 extra K's is really killing the Cubs starting off a game.

 

Soriano leading off an inning in 2007: 45 K's

Roberts leading off an inning in 2007: 38 K's.

 

Yikes, 7 more K's starting off innings 250+ times per year. Fire that man.

 

Soriano leading off a game with a HR: 12

Roberts leading off a game with a HR: 1

 

Soriano leading off an inning with a HR: 13

Roberts leading off an inning with a HR: 4

 

Roberts scores a run every 7.17 times he steps to the plate.

Soriano scores a run every 6.7 times he steps to the plate.

 

Please explain why less home runs, less K's and less runs scored per game (Roberts x 3) makes someone a more valuable lead off hitter. I'm dying to hear it.

[BigbadB]

Copied from the "Revisiting Joe Nathan" thread and never replied to:

 

To be fair, Roberts did have 100 more plate appearances than Soriano in 2007, so Soriano's K totals would likely be up a bit, as would his HR totals. Also, I didn't explain that the runs per PA was lifetime, not just last year.

 

Soriano's PA per run in 2007: 6.36

Roberts' PA per run in 2007: 6.95

 

Soriano's PA per run in 2006: 6.11

Robert's PA per run in 2006: 7.4

 

I included 2006 in the event someone wanted to argue that the Cubs heart of the order was clearly better than the Orioles heart of the order, even though I believe the two were very comparable. Clearly, the 2006 Nats heart of the order doesn't nearly compare to either of the 2007 Orioles or Cubs heart of the order.

 

Just for giggles, I'll include the 3-5 hitters for each of the above teams:

 

2007 Cubs:

3rd: .309 .391 .496, 80 RBI

4th: .312 .381 .531, 122 RBI

5th: .256 .321 .401, 75 RBI

 

2007 Orioles:

3rd: .288 .353 .457, 109 RBI

4th: .276 .357 .422, 99 RBI

5th: .267 .325 .408, 85 RBI

 

2006 Nats:

3rd: .259 .346 .443, 93 RBI

4th: .269 .390 .467, 96 RBI

5th: .267 .339 .450, 99 RBI

 

Looks like the 2007 Orioles win the RBI battle, followed by the 2006 Nats. But, the Cubs heart of the order had better AVG, OBP and SLG.

 

2006 Nats 1/2 OBP: .357/.362

2006 Nats 1/2 RS: 119/97

 

2007 Orioles 1/2 OBP: .375/.320

2007 Orioles RS: 107/97

 

2007 Cubs 1/2 OBP: .341/.336

2007 Cubs 1/2 RS: 127/99

 

Cubs get last place in OBP at the top of the order, but win the runs scored contest. Imagine how much better the Cubs heart of the order would be if Soriano hit lead off and Brian Roberts hit 2nd. Especially when you factor in how much better Fukudome will be hitting behind Ramirez. Without Roberts, Soriano/DeRosa would be much better than Soriano/Theriot and not too far off from what Soriano/Roberts would likely provide. One thing that does need to be considered about Roberts is the first year in a new league could hamper his numbers a bit. Some guys do quite well switching leagues. Others, well, not so much. It cannot be assumed that Roberts will automatically do better or equal performance switching leagues and facing a lot of pitchers for the first time.

 

I will say that Soriano, Roberts, Lee, Ramirez, Fukudome is arguably one of the best 1-5's in baseball, depending on how Fukudome's numbers from Japan translate to MLB.

[UMFan83]

Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Derek Jeter, Troy Tulowitzki, Miguel Tejada, Carlos Guillen, Michael Young, J.J. Hardy, Rafael Furcal, Orlando Cabrera, Edgar Renteria, and Jhonny Peralta. Those are 13 SS I would rather have than Greene on our team. Peralta and Greene are close. Greene might have the edge cuz of defense. Theriot isnt far behind. I think both are average.

 

Carlos Guillen is no longer a SS.

 

I'd still put him at SS over Greene. Just like I'd put DeRosa at SS over Greene.

 

OK well I will put Albert Pujols at SS over Greene too. Now hes number 15.

[DeuceBaseman]

Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Derek Jeter, Troy Tulowitzki, Miguel Tejada, Carlos Guillen, Michael Young, J.J. Hardy, Rafael Furcal, Orlando Cabrera, Edgar Renteria, and Jhonny Peralta. Those are 13 SS I would rather have than Greene on our team. Peralta and Greene are close. Greene might have the edge cuz of defense. Theriot isnt far behind. I think both are average.

 

Carlos Guillen is no longer a SS.

 

I'd still put him at SS over Greene. Just like I'd put DeRosa at SS over Greene.

 

OK well I will put Albert Pujols at SS over Greene too. Now hes number 15.

 

Aww your so funny. Albert Pujols never was a MLB SS like Carlos Guillen was very recently. Carlos Guillen's poor defense doesnt make up for the fact that he is 10 times better on offense than Greene.

[BigbadB]

OK well I will put Albert Pujols at SS over Greene too. Now hes number 15.

 

I like Soriano at SS over Theriot. And he has played some MLB SS. 16?

 

And that makes at least 3 guys I prefer at SS over Theriot, just on the Cubs roster. Soriano, DeRosa and Cedeno.

[UMFan83]

Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Derek Jeter, Troy Tulowitzki, Miguel Tejada, Carlos Guillen, Michael Young, J.J. Hardy, Rafael Furcal, Orlando Cabrera, Edgar Renteria, and Jhonny Peralta. Those are 13 SS I would rather have than Greene on our team. Peralta and Greene are close. Greene might have the edge cuz of defense. Theriot isnt far behind. I think both are average.

 

Carlos Guillen is no longer a SS.

 

I'd still put him at SS over Greene. Just like I'd put DeRosa at SS over Greene.

 

OK well I will put Albert Pujols at SS over Greene too. Now hes number 15.

 

Aww your so funny. Albert Pujols never was a MLB SS like Carlos Guillen was very recently. Carlos Guillen's poor defense doesnt make up for the fact that he is 10 times better on offense than Greene.

 

OK, add ARod then. I still don't see how Greene's position ranking among other eligible SSs has anything to do with the fact that he would be a significant upgrade over Ryan Theriot.

[DeuceBaseman]

Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Derek Jeter, Troy Tulowitzki, Miguel Tejada, Carlos Guillen, Michael Young, J.J. Hardy, Rafael Furcal, Orlando Cabrera, Edgar Renteria, and Jhonny Peralta. Those are 13 SS I would rather have than Greene on our team. Peralta and Greene are close. Greene might have the edge cuz of defense. Theriot isnt far behind. I think both are average.

 

Carlos Guillen is no longer a SS.

 

I'd still put him at SS over Greene. Just like I'd put DeRosa at SS over Greene.

 

OK well I will put Albert Pujols at SS over Greene too. Now hes number 15.

 

Aww your so funny. Albert Pujols never was a MLB SS like Carlos Guillen was very recently. Carlos Guillen's poor defense doesnt make up for the fact that he is 10 times better on offense than Greene.

 

OK, add ARod then. I still don't see how Greene's position ranking among other eligible SSs has anything to do with the fact that he would be a significant upgrade over Ryan Theriot.

 

Well I'll agree with that. I was a big advocate of signing AROD this offseason and putting him at SS. You guys can keep putting these star players at SS to move Theriot down the list, but you are still moving Greene down as well so I dont get your point. So lets stop being smart asses and actually pretend like your knowledgeable at baseball.

[UMFan83]

Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Derek Jeter, Troy Tulowitzki, Miguel Tejada, Carlos Guillen, Michael Young, J.J. Hardy, Rafael Furcal, Orlando Cabrera, Edgar Renteria, and Jhonny Peralta. Those are 13 SS I would rather have than Greene on our team. Peralta and Greene are close. Greene might have the edge cuz of defense. Theriot isnt far behind. I think both are average.

 

Carlos Guillen is no longer a SS.

 

I'd still put him at SS over Greene. Just like I'd put DeRosa at SS over Greene.

 

OK well I will put Albert Pujols at SS over Greene too. Now hes number 15.

 

Aww your so funny. Albert Pujols never was a MLB SS like Carlos Guillen was very recently. Carlos Guillen's poor defense doesnt make up for the fact that he is 10 times better on offense than Greene.

 

OK, add ARod then. I still don't see how Greene's position ranking among other eligible SSs has anything to do with the fact that he would be a significant upgrade over Ryan Theriot.

 

Well I'll agree with that. I was a big advocate of signing AROD this offseason and putting him at SS. You guys can keep putting these star players at SS to move Theriot down the list, but you are still moving Greene down as well so I dont get your point. So lets stop being smart asses and actually pretend like your knowledgeable at baseball.

 

Who cares? If Greene is the 85th best shortstop in the world and Theriot is the 145th, Greene is a better baseball player and a better shortstop, and by more than a small margin.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well I'll agree with that. I was a big advocate of signing AROD this offseason and putting him at SS.

 

Isn't this an incredibly redundant statement? Who wouldn't be an "advocate" of such a thing?