MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[jiml60]

Next to Mike Ditka, he may be the most ridiculously worshiped former Chicago athlete of all time.

 

Are you referring to the Mike Ditka that has a Super Bowl ring?

 

The same one whose ego prevented a 3-4 year dynasty, yes.

 

Yep, the same Ditka who, despite growing up in a steel town, sides with management over players in the '87 strike thereby losing his players and sealing the end of the dynasty that never was. Ditka is dead to me.

[NCCubFan]

Maybe Dempster would be traded for Byrd.

 

Or maybe we could get Marquis' contract off the books?

 

 

Just a question here and its probably been talked about and thought of way before I did. But would Marquis be a decent middle innings guy? He's durable, throws hard and is an innings eater.

 

Just thinking out loud!!!

 

 

Any way to lessen Marquis innings would be a good thing, however Marquis isnt known to be a real accomadating guy. When things arent the way he wants them, he is usually pretty vocal about it, so I highly doubt he'd accept a bullpen role quietly.

He does work for the Cubs, though, so if the Cubs say he's a middle reliever then he's a middle reliever. Let him pout and sulk all he wants.

[CubColtPacer]

Maybe Dempster would be traded for Byrd.

 

Or maybe we could get Marquis' contract off the books?

 

 

Just a question here and its probably been talked about and thought of way before I did. But would Marquis be a decent middle innings guy? He's durable, throws hard and is an innings eater.

 

Just thinking out loud!!!

 

 

Any way to lessen Marquis innings would be a good thing, however Marquis isnt known to be a real accomadating guy. When things arent the way he wants them, he is usually pretty vocal about it, so I highly doubt he'd accept a bullpen role quietly.

He does work for the Cubs, though, so if the Cubs say he's a middle reliever then he's a middle reliever. Let him pout and sulk all he wants.

 

The more he pouts though the more he throws his fastball and his fastball only. He can't control his fastball on a regular basis though, so he'll walk more people and give up lots more runs if he doesn't mix up pitches.

 

So in a desperate situation I'd make Marquis a middle reliever, but if you do that you might as well cut him. He's not going to be effective in that role.

[badnews]

Not out of the realm of possibility, but I'm less optimistic. Something around .814 sounds more reasonable to me. Soto with improve the line at catcher, can Pie and the crappy platoon partner replicate last year's mediocre CF numbers? It seems likely.

 

It would be very difficult to fail to reproduce last year's CF numbers, methinks.

 

Should be stronger on either side, with Sori a full year in his best defensive position and Fukudome instead of the madness that was RF last year. I'm actually starting to warm up to our outfield for the first time in years. If Pie even hits marginally it will be much, much better from what I can see.

 

The Cubs got an aggregate .710 OPS from CF last year. I don't think Pie is going to be much, much better than that. Just my opinion.

[badnews]

I think it has more to do with the fact that we don't have a lot of depth in our minor leagues. We have several B level pitching prospects, but far fewer position players. Accordingly, it feels like people are playing hardball with us when they actually are just looking at the few viable position player prospects we have in our system.

 

Seems like hardball to me. The White Sox have a crap farm system and that didn't stop them from getting an extremely attractive deal for Swisher, who has a contract that can only be called mind-boggling.

 

The equivalent situation would be, if the Tigers called up the Braves to ask about Renteria, and the Braves demanded Andrew Miller and Joel Zumaya and Cameron Maybin. I mean really. What is this Pie or Colvin, Marshall or Gallagher, and Marmol or Hill nonsense we're getting from the Orioles?

[Lefty]

This is disappointing. We are basically bringing back the same team as last year with more dependency on unproven players like Pie and Soto. (although it probably isn't very hard to outperform our '07 catching situation) Fukudome at best replaces the production we got from Jones/Floyd. Theriot is still a starting player. (I'm praying for Ronny Cedeno to have a ridiculous spring training)

At best? I'd say that Fukudome at worst replaces the RF production from last year.

 

.293/.375/.419/.794 is not a slam dunk.

[jersey cubs fan]

Not out of the realm of possibility, but I'm less optimistic. Something around .814 sounds more reasonable to me. Soto with improve the line at catcher, can Pie and the crappy platoon partner replicate last year's mediocre CF numbers? It seems likely.

 

It would be very difficult to fail to reproduce last year's CF numbers, methinks.

 

Should be stronger on either side, with Sori a full year in his best defensive position and Fukudome instead of the madness that was RF last year. I'm actually starting to warm up to our outfield for the first time in years. If Pie even hits marginally it will be much, much better from what I can see.

 

The Cubs got an aggregate .710 OPS from CF last year. I don't think Pie is going to be much, much better than that. Just my opinion.

 

Yeah, it's still very much in question whether or not they see improved production from CF, and it's not a sure thing that RF will be improved. RF wasn't bad last year, despite all the people who think it was terrible. They had the 6th highest OPS and the highest OBP of any NL team's RF. I wouldn't assume Fukudome & Co. is going to significantly outpace that number. Fukudome with a little help from Murton may be a good bet to do better than that, but it's no guarantee.

[UK1679666180]

Not out of the realm of possibility, but I'm less optimistic. Something around .814 sounds more reasonable to me. Soto with improve the line at catcher, can Pie and the crappy platoon partner replicate last year's mediocre CF numbers? It seems likely.

 

It would be very difficult to fail to reproduce last year's CF numbers, methinks.

 

Should be stronger on either side, with Sori a full year in his best defensive position and Fukudome instead of the madness that was RF last year. I'm actually starting to warm up to our outfield for the first time in years. If Pie even hits marginally it will be much, much better from what I can see.

 

The Cubs got an aggregate .710 OPS from CF last year. I don't think Pie is going to be much, much better than that. Just my opinion.

 

Yeah, it's still very much in question whether or not they see improved production from CF, and it's not a sure thing that RF will be improved. RF wasn't bad last year, despite all the people who think it was terrible. They had the 6th highest OPS and the highest OBP of any NL team's RF. I wouldn't assume Fukudome & Co. is going to significantly outpace that number. Fukudome with a little help from Murton may be a good bet to do better than that, but it's no guarantee.

 

Right now, the Cubs should expect increased production from C and hopefully SS next year.

[jersey cubs fan]

Right now, the Cubs should expect increased production from C and hopefully SS next year.

 

Did the Cubs make a move over the weekend that I am not aware of? There's no reason to expected increased production from SS. Theriot is going to play most of the time and more likely than not continue to perform at the low level he, and the rest of the SS crew, performed at in 2007.

[CubinNY]

Right now, the Cubs should expect increased production from C and hopefully SS next year.

 

Did the Cubs make a move over the weekend that I am not aware of? There's no reason to expected increased production from SS. Theriot is going to play most of the time and more likely than not continue to perform at the low level he, and the rest of the SS crew, performed at in 2007.

 

I agree, but I think if Theriot continues to put up those numbers the Cubs will almost have to make a trade at some point. I have hope for Cedeno but not a lot of confidence.

[jersey cubs fan]

Right now, the Cubs should expect increased production from C and hopefully SS next year.

 

Did the Cubs make a move over the weekend that I am not aware of? There's no reason to expected increased production from SS. Theriot is going to play most of the time and more likely than not continue to perform at the low level he, and the rest of the SS crew, performed at in 2007.

 

I agree, but I think if Theriot continues to put up those numbers the Cubs will almost have to make a trade at some point. I have hope for Cedeno but not a lot of confidence.

 

If the team is winning with Theriot at SS, I could see them remaining satisfied staying with the status quo. I have hope for Cedeno, but not a lot of confidence that he'll get the job done, or being given a chance to get the job done.

[UK1679666180]

Right now, the Cubs should expect increased production from C and hopefully SS next year.

 

Did the Cubs make a move over the weekend that I am not aware of? There's no reason to expected increased production from SS. Theriot is going to play most of the time and more likely than not continue to perform at the low level he, and the rest of the SS crew, performed at in 2007.

 

The Cubs SS hit .254/.309/.331 last year.

 

That's probably the floor of what should be expected from Theriot/Cedeno.

[UBlink]

I think it has more to do with the fact that we don't have a lot of depth in our minor leagues. We have several B level pitching prospects, but far fewer position players. Accordingly, it feels like people are playing hardball with us when they actually are just looking at the few viable position player prospects we have in our system.

 

Seems like hardball to me. The White Sox have a crap farm system and that didn't stop them from getting an extremely attractive deal for Swisher, who has a contract that can only be called mind-boggling.

 

The equivalent situation would be, if the Tigers called up the Braves to ask about Renteria, and the Braves demanded Andrew Miller and Joel Zumaya and Cameron Maybin. I mean really. What is this Pie or Colvin, Marshall or Gallagher, and Marmol or Hill nonsense we're getting from the Orioles?

 

Does playing hardball with the Cubs mean that other GM's will accept a package from another team that is inferior to a package that the Cubs offer just to show the Cubs that they're playing hardball? And if not, what does it mean?

[rawaction]

Right now, the Cubs should expect increased production from C and hopefully SS next year.

 

Did the Cubs make a move over the weekend that I am not aware of? There's no reason to expected increased production from SS. Theriot is going to play most of the time and more likely than not continue to perform at the low level he, and the rest of the SS crew, performed at in 2007.

 

The Cubs SS hit .254/.309/.331 last year.

 

That's probably the floor of what should be expected from Theriot/Cedeno.

 

Man, was Izturis that bad?

[jersey cubs fan]

Right now, the Cubs should expect increased production from C and hopefully SS next year.

 

Did the Cubs make a move over the weekend that I am not aware of? There's no reason to expected increased production from SS. Theriot is going to play most of the time and more likely than not continue to perform at the low level he, and the rest of the SS crew, performed at in 2007.

 

The Cubs SS hit .254/.309/.331 last year.

 

That's probably the floor of what should be expected from Theriot/Cedeno.

 

Don't see why anybody would think that.

 

Cubs SS hit .254/.309/.331 last year

With RT at .253/.312/.325

And RC at .222/.255/.378

 

Theriot is going to be given every chance to keep the job full-time, and he's more likely than not going to be as bad as last year. Nobody should expect improvement if they stick with these guys. They might get it, but they could easily be just as bad, or even worse. If Theriot doesn't find another outlier fluke month like last July, the floor for his productivity could very easily slip below the 640 OPS level.

[UK1679666180]

Theriot-.253/.312/.355

Cedeno-.222/.255/.378

Izturis-.250/.303/.304

[UK1679666180]

Right now, the Cubs should expect increased production from C and hopefully SS next year.

 

Did the Cubs make a move over the weekend that I am not aware of? There's no reason to expected increased production from SS. Theriot is going to play most of the time and more likely than not continue to perform at the low level he, and the rest of the SS crew, performed at in 2007.

 

The Cubs SS hit .254/.309/.331 last year.

 

That's probably the floor of what should be expected from Theriot/Cedeno.

 

Don't see why anybody would think that.

 

Cubs SS hit .254/.309/.331 last year

With RT at .253/.312/.325

And RC at .222/.255/.378

 

Theriot is going to be given every chance to keep the job full-time, and he's more likely than not going to be as bad as last year. Nobody should expect improvement if they stick with these guys. They might get it, but they could easily be just as bad, or even worse. If Theriot doesn't find another outlier fluke month like last July, the floor for his productivity could very easily slip below the 640 OPS level.

 

While he was hot in July, his second half was filled with some bad luck.

 

If I was to project Theriot...

 

.265-.275 avg.

.320-.330 obp.

.340-.350 slg.

[jersey cubs fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/batting?team=chc&season=2007&split=82&seasonType=2&type=reg

 

I think it's pretty telling that Theriot's numbers as a SS are a bit below his total 2007 numbers. In other words, once he became an everyday presence in the lineup, he got worse.

[Soul]

I think it within the realm of possibility that Theriot falls through the floor this year.

[Ryno12]

From Will Carroll's latest chat that is going on right now. Nothing groundbreaking, just figured I'd pass it along.

 

RobP (Chicago): Do you see the Cubs making a move for Brian Roberts or going in with what they have?

 

Will Carroll: I'm surprised this deal isn't done yet. I thought they had it done in Nashville and then they kind of had to back off during the Mitchell uproar. Now as teams are prepping to head to FL and AZ, I think this one gets done, though I don't have insight as to what the teams are dealing. I think Roberts is a big upgrade and lets Mark DeRosa be a super-utility guy

[C.C.]

Alright! The deal looks back on! I think it gets done in a week.

[Guest]

This is disappointing. We are basically bringing back the same team as last year with more dependency on unproven players like Pie and Soto. (although it probably isn't very hard to outperform our '07 catching situation) Fukudome at best replaces the production we got from Jones/Floyd. Theriot is still a starting player. (I'm praying for Ronny Cedeno to have a ridiculous spring training)

At best? I'd say that Fukudome at worst replaces the RF production from last year.

 

.293/.375/.419/.794 is not a slam dunk.

 

Just some food for thought on Fukudome:

 

http://www.projectprospect.com/fukudome-revisited/

[C.C.]

This is disappointing. We are basically bringing back the same team as last year with more dependency on unproven players like Pie and Soto. (although it probably isn't very hard to outperform our '07 catching situation) Fukudome at best replaces the production we got from Jones/Floyd. Theriot is still a starting player. (I'm praying for Ronny Cedeno to have a ridiculous spring training)

At best? I'd say that Fukudome at worst replaces the RF production from last year.

 

.293/.375/.419/.794 is not a slam dunk.

 

Just some food for thought on Fukudome:

 

http://www.projectprospect.com/fukudome-revisited/

 

 

Here’s my educated guess for how Fukudome will performing in 2008: .295/.380/.475 with 18 homers and 10 steals.

 

I'll take that!

[UMFan83]

Alright! The deal looks back on! I think it gets done in a week.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath. Just because it was close in December doesn't mean it is now.

[CubinNY]

Alright! The deal looks back on! I think it gets done in a week.

This thread is the Jason Voorhees of NSBB.

 

It will never die.