MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[RynoHawk23]

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080112philrogerswhispers,1,6118227.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

Deal doesn't sound "dead" in the sense Roberts is "off the market."

 

The real test is if Bedard gets traded. Then you would think there is no point to holding onto Roberts.

[wrigley23]

no offense keener but i'm quite sure he knows a great deal more than you.

[inari]

no offense keener but i'm quite sure he knows a great deal more than you.

 

And so does Joe Morgan, I'm sure. I mean, he's in the broadcast booth. How could he not?

[mdwilla]

If peolpe on this board think Hendry hasn't been looking for a leadoff so he can move Soranio down in the order you haven't been paying much attention this offseason . Kaz,Roberts Figgins.

[erik316wttn]

If peolpe on this board think Hendry hasn't been looking for a leadoff so he can move Soranio down in the order you haven't been paying much attention this offseason . Kaz,Roberts Figgins.

 

I've always liked Figgins.

[Andy]

no offense keener but i'm quite sure he knows a great deal more than you.

Doesn't mean he deploys that knowledge correctly.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

If peolpe on this board think Hendry hasn't been looking for a leadoff so he can move Soranio down in the order you haven't been paying much attention this offseason . Kaz,Roberts Figgins.

 

those cats look like they hit left handed and hit out of the two hole

[Keener98]

no offense keener but i'm quite sure he knows a great deal more than you.

 

 

I love this rationale that because hes a broadcaster he knows more than myself or others on this board. Baseball is all about who you know and getting your foot in the door. I mean what was the trade that Stone advocated a couple years ago, Aram for who? Stone also thinks Theriot is good at baseball, enough said.

[BCVM22]

I love this rationale that because hes a broadcaster he knows more than myself or others on this board. Baseball is all about who you know and getting your foot in the door. I mean what was the trade that Stone advocated a couple years ago, Aram for who? Stone also thinks Theriot is good at baseball, enough said.

 

Aramis for Cesar Izturis, if I'm not mistaken.

[inari]

I love this rationale that because hes a broadcaster he knows more than myself or others on this board. Baseball is all about who you know and getting your foot in the door. I mean what was the trade that Stone advocated a couple years ago, Aram for who? Stone also thinks Theriot is good at baseball, enough said.

 

Aramis for Cesar Izturis, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Wait. Seriously?

[badnews]

Wow, are people demanding. Remember when Jake Peavy put up a 99 ERA+ in 2006? People would have been saying "Look, he's no good." And Jake Peavy is like the worst big game pitcher in baseball, people would be saying "Get another two guys as good as Peavy is during the regular season to make up for the fact that he's a headcase choker." And so forth.

 

Okay, Jeremy Bonderman. I don't really believe any pitcher can be so "unlucky" for so long. I think he is a guy that may have some mental or focus issues. He had a 3.48 ERA the first half and a 7.38 ERA the second half in 2007. In 2006, he had a 3.46 ERA with a 1.14 WHIP the first half, a 4.87 ERA with a 1.49 WHIP the second half. 3.99 ERA, 1.24 WHIP the first half of 2005, a 5.61 ERA and a 1.56 WHIP the second half.

 

If Rich Hill had a bad attitude when guys got on base, his LOB % wouldn't be so high at 75.3%. Bonderman is always below 70% and was at around 65% this year. So Bonderman pretty much craps out every 2nd half, which isn't a good sign, as you'd think this many years, the preparation should be better, and he's losing his free pass - he's been in baseball too many years for this, young or not.

 

The Tigers would be wise to lock Bonderman up, otherwise it's easy to forsee him breaking this pattern right before free agency and then ka-ching. Well, ka-ching either way, but a bigger ka-ching.

 

Anyway, back to the Cubs. Cub RFs had an aggregate .795 OPS in 2007, so maybe the increase won't be as much as people think.

 

GMs seem to be making reasonable trades, but as soon as they talk to Jim Hendry they suddenly become unreasonable.

[inari]

Going from .795 to say, .850, would be a dramatic improvement. I don't think that's out of the realm of possibilities at all.

[badnews]

Not out of the realm of possibility, but I'm less optimistic. Something around .814 sounds more reasonable to me. Soto with improve the line at catcher, can Pie and the crappy platoon partner replicate last year's mediocre CF numbers? It seems likely.

[mdwilla]

If peolpe on this board think Hendry hasn't been looking for a leadoff so he can move Soranio down in the order you haven't been paying much attention this offseason . Kaz,Roberts Figgins.

 

those cats look like they hit left handed and hit out of the two hole

 

Kaz might not be suited for the top of the order period but Figgins and Roberts are standard leadoff hitter targets that Hendry has been after before. Fukodome is Jim's likely answer in the two hole, will be interesting to see where Piniella places him.

[Soul]

Not out of the realm of possibility, but I'm less optimistic. Something around .814 sounds more reasonable to me. Soto with improve the line at catcher, can Pie and the crappy platoon partner replicate last year's mediocre CF numbers? It seems likely.

 

It would be very difficult to fail to reproduce last year's CF numbers, methinks.

 

Should be stronger on either side, with Sori a full year in his best defensive position and Fukudome instead of the madness that was RF last year. I'm actually starting to warm up to our outfield for the first time in years. If Pie even hits marginally it will be much, much better from what I can see.

[RynoRules]

Wow, are people demanding. Remember when Jake Peavy put up a 99 ERA+ in 2006? People would have been saying "Look, he's no good." And Jake Peavy is like the worst big game pitcher in baseball, people would be saying "Get another two guys as good as Peavy is during the regular season to make up for the fact that he's a headcase choker." And so forth.

 

Okay, Jeremy Bonderman. I don't really believe any pitcher can be so "unlucky" for so long. I think he is a guy that may have some mental or focus issues. He had a 3.48 ERA the first half and a 7.38 ERA the second half in 2007. In 2006, he had a 3.46 ERA with a 1.14 WHIP the first half, a 4.87 ERA with a 1.49 WHIP the second half. 3.99 ERA, 1.24 WHIP the first half of 2005, a 5.61 ERA and a 1.56 WHIP the second half.

 

If Rich Hill had a bad attitude when guys got on base, his LOB % wouldn't be so high at 75.3%. Bonderman is always below 70% and was at around 65% this year. So Bonderman pretty much craps out every 2nd half, which isn't a good sign, as you'd think this many years, the preparation should be better, and he's losing his free pass - he's been in baseball too many years for this, young or not.

 

The Tigers would be wise to lock Bonderman up, otherwise it's easy to forsee him breaking this pattern right before free agency and then ka-ching. Well, ka-ching either way, but a bigger ka-ching.

 

Anyway, back to the Cubs. Cub RFs had an aggregate .795 OPS in 2007, so maybe the increase won't be as much as people think.

 

GMs seem to be making reasonable trades, but as soon as they talk to Jim Hendry they suddenly become unreasonable.

 

I think it has more to do with the fact that we don't have a lot of depth in our minor leagues. We have several B level pitching prospects, but far fewer position players. Accordingly, it feels like people are playing hardball with us when they actually are just looking at the few viable position player prospects we have in our system.

[RammyFanny]

Yeah, I'd like Wrigleyboy's opinion on the Cesar Izturis for Aramis Ramirez trade that Stone was saying we should make.

[wrigley23]

wrigley boy? let's save the sophomoric nonsense. I never heard stone say that & I highly doubt he did. there was a time a couple yrs ago that aramis was constantly hurt, would go in prolonged slumps & wailed away at the plate. He showed a complete lack of character when dlee went down by tucking his tail & seemed to have given up. Many thought the cubs were looking to move his salary at the time. With a healthy lee, he came back to form last year. Speaking of a lineup full of free swingers, for those johnny peralta lovers out there...he brings no speed to the lineup & whiffed a whopping 146 times last year. He is hardly what this lineup needs.

[rawaction]

wrigley boy? let's save the sophomoric nonsense. I never heard stone say that & I highly doubt he did. there was a time a couple yrs ago that aramis was constantly hurt, would go in prolonged slumps & wailed away at the plate. He showed a complete lack of character when dlee went down by tucking his tail & seemed to have given up. Many thought the cubs were looking to move his salary at the time. With a healthy lee, he came back to form last year. Speaking of a lineup full of free swingers, for those johnny peralta lovers out there...he brings no speed to the lineup & whiffed a whopping 146 times last year. He is hardly what this lineup needs.

 

None of this is true.

 

- A couple years ago (2005), Aramis did go on the DL once, and I'll take any "prolonged slump" that still yields a .926 OPS. The year before that, Aramis was healthy all season and had the best year of his career.

 

- 2006, the year DLee went down....maybe it's just me, but I don't see anywhere in the career highs for games played, HRs, RBIs, walks, and K/AB shows that Aramis gave up.

 

- With Lee healthy last year, he came back to form....pretty much the exact same form he showed in 2006. .915 OPS in 07 vs. .913 in 06.

 

-From your last statement, I take it that you think speeds and contact hitting wins games. Well, Cleveland sure disproved that by winning the toughest division in baseball, while being in the bottom 3 in the AL in steals and striking out 3rd most offensively. What about Philly and Colorado who struck out a ton? What about the Cubs and Red Sox who didn't steal enough bases to be in the top 1/2 of baseball?

[wrigley23]

as stated previously, the red sox lineup is chock full of patient hitters. It is well documented that was their offensive philosophy. I never said you had to have speed. I said we have a team full of free swingers & bad baserunners. The red sock hitters take pitches...not just at the top of the lineup either. They work the count & get into the opponent's bullpen. The Cub does the opposite. We keep average pitchers in the game by aggressively swinging at everything.

[Backtobanks]

If peolpe on this board think Hendry hasn't been looking for a leadoff so he can move Soranio down in the order you haven't been paying much attention this offseason . Kaz,Roberts Figgins.

 

those cats look like they hit left handed and hit out of the two hole

 

Kaz might not be suited for the top of the order period but Figgins and Roberts are standard leadoff hitter targets that Hendry has been after before. Fukodome is Jim's likely answer in the two hole, will be interesting to see where Piniella places him.

 

I don't think Fukudome will bat 2nd if they get a lefty leadoff man. Lou would like to break up all the right-handed hitters.

[RammyFanny]

wrigley boy? let's save the sophomoric nonsense. I never heard stone say that & I highly doubt he did. there was a time a couple yrs ago that aramis was constantly hurt, would go in prolonged slumps & wailed away at the plate. He showed a complete lack of character when dlee went down by tucking his tail & seemed to have given up. Many thought the cubs were looking to move his salary at the time. With a healthy lee, he came back to form last year. Speaking of a lineup full of free swingers, for those johnny peralta lovers out there...he brings no speed to the lineup & whiffed a whopping 146 times last year. He is hardly what this lineup needs.

My bad on the name, there's a mod on PSD with that name, I just got it confused.

 

By the way, Stones exact words were "If the Dodgers are dangling Izturis for Ramirez straight up, you hold off, but if they include a prospect, it's a deal that has to be made". Then he replied that a Cedeno/Izturis infield is one that "lasts for 10 years". I remember that day vividly.

[rawaction]

as stated previously, the red sox lineup is chock full of patient hitters. It is well documented that was their offensive philosophy. I never said you had to have speed. I said we have a team full of free swingers & bad baserunners. The red sock hitters take pitches...not just at the top of the lineup either. They work the count & get into the opponent's bullpen. The Cub does the opposite. We keep average pitchers in the game by aggressively swinging at everything.

 

If you didn't mean you had to have speed, why bring it up? And you didn't say Peralta wasn't patient.....you said he struck out a lot. How was I supposed to determine that you meant patience, when you never mentioned it. People have used the strikeout issue against Adam Dunn, when he is clearly one of the most patient hitters in the game.

[Mizzou]

wrigley boy? let's save the sophomoric nonsense. I never heard stone say that & I highly doubt he did. there was a time a couple yrs ago that aramis was constantly hurt, would go in prolonged slumps & wailed away at the plate. He showed a complete lack of character when dlee went down by tucking his tail & seemed to have given up. Many thought the cubs were looking to move his salary at the time. With a healthy lee, he came back to form last year. Speaking of a lineup full of free swingers, for those johnny peralta lovers out there...he brings no speed to the lineup & whiffed a whopping 146 times last year. He is hardly what this lineup needs.

My bad on the name, there's a mod on PSD with that name, I just got it confused.

 

By the way, Stones exact words were "If the Dodgers are dangling Izturis for Ramirez straight up, you hold off, but if they include a prospect, it's a deal that has to be made". Then he replied that a Cedeno/Izturis infield is one that "lasts for 10 years". I remember that day vividly.

That's amazing that you remember his exact words from a random day two years ago.

 

No offense, but I doubt he said that.

[RammyFanny]

wrigley boy? let's save the sophomoric nonsense. I never heard stone say that & I highly doubt he did. there was a time a couple yrs ago that aramis was constantly hurt, would go in prolonged slumps & wailed away at the plate. He showed a complete lack of character when dlee went down by tucking his tail & seemed to have given up. Many thought the cubs were looking to move his salary at the time. With a healthy lee, he came back to form last year. Speaking of a lineup full of free swingers, for those johnny peralta lovers out there...he brings no speed to the lineup & whiffed a whopping 146 times last year. He is hardly what this lineup needs.

My bad on the name, there's a mod on PSD with that name, I just got it confused.

 

By the way, Stones exact words were "If the Dodgers are dangling Izturis for Ramirez straight up, you hold off, but if they include a prospect, it's a deal that has to be made". Then he replied that a Cedeno/Izturis infield is one that "lasts for 10 years". I remember that day vividly.

That's amazing that you remember his exact words from a random day two years ago.

 

No offense, but I doubt he said that.

Just searched it real quick and found this:

The Evil Stoney said yesterday that the Dodgers would be a team that has interest and $$$ to deal for ARam. He said that Bill Mueller won't be back and that Ned Colletti may be looking to acquire an impact 3rd baseman. He felt that Cesar Izturis is being dangled, but it would take more young Dodger players to get ARam. Stoney said a Cedeno/Izturis infield is one that 'lasts for 10 years'. He also mentioned that Maddux could wind up in LA too.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33230&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=stone+izturis

 

I'm telling you, he even said "prospect" not "prospects".