MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[BigbadB]

I can't really argue with that. I guess having a great 1-8 lineup is going to yeild great results regardless. Let's hope we can at least get a great 1-7 or even 1-6 hitters. The jury will still be out on Soto and Theriot for a little while.

 

The teams that score the most runs each season are the teams who put up the best team OBP. The more your team is on base, the more the team scores, the more plate appearances guys get.

 

If you go back to Derrek Lee's 2005, not only did Lee suffer on plate appearances because of the poorly constructed line up, he had limited at bats with runners on base. His 99 XBH's that season ranks among the top offensive seasons in baseball history.

[DenverCubs]

I can't really argue with that. I guess having a great 1-8 lineup is going to yeild great results regardless. Let's hope we can at least get a great 1-7 or even 1-6 hitters. The jury will still be out on Soto and Theriot for a little while.

 

The teams that score the most runs each season are the teams who put up the best team OBP. The more your team is on base, the more the team scores, the more plate appearances guys get.

 

If you go back to Derrek Lee's 2005, not only did Lee suffer on plate appearances because of the poorly constructed line up, he had limited at bats with runners on base. His 99 XBH's that season ranks among the top offensive seasons in baseball history.

 

You must be mistaken...did you not know that Andruw Jones was better than Derrek Lee that year.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2005.shtml#NLmvp

[Banedon]

Regardless if he comes here or not, I personally believe NSB should rename this board the "Brian Roberts' Transactions Message Board" in honor of this thread - which is equal parts informative, mind numbing, and laughable.

 

While true, many would make the argument, and probably rightly so, that a name change like that would more likely be "The Adam Dunn Pipe Dream Message Board".

 

Other candidates include, Brian Giles, JD Drew, Khalil Greene, Nomar, and Maddux.

[ThePenguin11]

I can't really argue with that. I guess having a great 1-8 lineup is going to yeild great results regardless. Let's hope we can at least get a great 1-7 or even 1-6 hitters. The jury will still be out on Soto and Theriot for a little while.

 

The teams that score the most runs each season are the teams who put up the best team OBP. The more your team is on base, the more the team scores, the more plate appearances guys get.

 

If you go back to Derrek Lee's 2005, not only did Lee suffer on plate appearances because of the poorly constructed line up, he had limited at bats with runners on base. His 99 XBH's that season ranks among the top offensive seasons in baseball history.

 

I'm on board with that as well. I'd love to see a lineup of Roberts, Fukudome, Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, DeRosa, Soto, Pie, P...but I'm sure it will look more like...Roberts, Theriot, Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Fukudome, Pie, Soto, Pitcher. My philosophy is probably obvious - 1-2 should be your best non-power OBP guys (provided they're not Paul Konerko-slow (but don't need to be fast either)) then your best power for 3-4-5 with 6-7-8 being everyone else in order of hitting talent.

[UMFan83]

I can't really argue with that. I guess having a great 1-8 lineup is going to yeild great results regardless. Let's hope we can at least get a great 1-7 or even 1-6 hitters. The jury will still be out on Soto and Theriot for a little while.

 

The teams that score the most runs each season are the teams who put up the best team OBP. The more your team is on base, the more the team scores, the more plate appearances guys get.

 

If you go back to Derrek Lee's 2005, not only did Lee suffer on plate appearances because of the poorly constructed line up, he had limited at bats with runners on base. His 99 XBH's that season ranks among the top offensive seasons in baseball history.

 

It is absolutely mind boggling that with that production while hitting number 3 in the lineup that he barely reached 100 RBIs.

 

He led the league in:

BA

SLG

OPS

Hits

Total Bases

Doubles

Runs Created

XBH

 

In the top 5 in:

OBP (4th)

Runs (2nd)

HR (2nd)

 

But finished distant 7th in RBI

[Dr. Cub]

I'm not a big fan of the trade, but Marshall had a 5.84 K/9 last year, Demp a 7.43. That surely isn't a conclusive stat by any means, but I think it hints at Marshall not being able to sustain any real success in the majors. I just don't believe in his ability at this level.

 

Dempster's career numbers as a starter:

 

988.2 IP

4.99 ERA

1.57 WHIP

.808 Opponent's OPS

1.11 HR/9

4.71 BB/9

9.39 H/9

 

There is nothing in there that gives me any faith that he'll do anything good as a starter.

 

I agree. I also believe that given some more time, Marshall and that ridiculous K/9 will see similar results. I don't like either option, but given the increase in WARP from DeRosa to Roberts, I don't mind giving away what I believe is nothing better than what we already are trotting out there. Marshall has something else going on IMO as well. His absence late in the season has me wondering.

[David]

Off subject, sort of, but maybe 2008 Lee will be a little closer to 2005 Lee than the 07 version, since we saw his power come back quite a bit in the second half of the season.

 

That would be really, really nice.

[inari]

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/01/looking-like-a.html

 

Phil Rogers is reporting the trade could be done as soon as today.

[YearofDaCubs]

I can't really argue with that. I guess having a great 1-8 lineup is going to yeild great results regardless. Let's hope we can at least get a great 1-7 or even 1-6 hitters. The jury will still be out on Soto and Theriot for a little while.

 

The teams that score the most runs each season are the teams who put up the best team OBP. The more your team is on base, the more the team scores, the more plate appearances guys get.

 

If you go back to Derrek Lee's 2005, not only did Lee suffer on plate appearances because of the poorly constructed line up, he had limited at bats with runners on base. His 99 XBH's that season ranks among the top offensive seasons in baseball history.

 

It is absolutely mind boggling that with that production while hitting number 3 in the lineup that he barely reached 100 RBIs.

 

He led the league in:

BA

SLG

OPS

Hits

Total Bases

Doubles

Runs Created

XBH

 

In the top 5 in:

OBP (4th)

Runs (2nd)

HR (2nd)

 

But finished distant 7th in RBI

That's what happens when you put Neifi Perez batting 1st or 2nd.

[SouthSideRyan]

I can't really argue with that. I guess having a great 1-8 lineup is going to yeild great results regardless. Let's hope we can at least get a great 1-7 or even 1-6 hitters. The jury will still be out on Soto and Theriot for a little while.

 

The teams that score the most runs each season are the teams who put up the best team OBP. The more your team is on base, the more the team scores, the more plate appearances guys get.

 

If you go back to Derrek Lee's 2005, not only did Lee suffer on plate appearances because of the poorly constructed line up, he had limited at bats with runners on base. His 99 XBH's that season ranks among the top offensive seasons in baseball history.

 

It is absolutely mind boggling that with that production while hitting number 3 in the lineup that he barely reached 100 RBIs.

 

He led the league in:

BA

SLG

OPS

Hits

Total Bases

Doubles

Runs Created

XBH

 

In the top 5 in:

OBP (4th)

Runs (2nd)

HR (2nd)

 

But finished distant 7th in RBI

That's what happens when you put Neifi Perez batting 1st or 2nd.

 

And Jose Macias And 2005 Corey Patterson.

[rawaction]

I'm not a big fan of the trade, but Marshall had a 5.84 K/9 last year, Demp a 7.43. That surely isn't a conclusive stat by any means, but I think it hints at Marshall not being able to sustain any real success in the majors. I just don't believe in his ability at this level.

 

Dempster's career numbers as a starter:

 

988.2 IP

4.99 ERA

1.57 WHIP

.808 Opponent's OPS

1.11 HR/9

4.71 BB/9

9.39 H/9

 

There is nothing in there that gives me any faith that he'll do anything good as a starter.

 

I agree. I also believe that given some more time, Marshall and that ridiculous K/9 will see similar results. I don't like either option, but given the increase in WARP from DeRosa to Roberts, I don't mind giving away what I believe is nothing better than what we already are trotting out there. Marshall has something else going on IMO as well. His absence late in the season has me wondering.

 

The problem isn't Marshall, per se. It's that when somebody gets hurt or Marquis/Dempster are ineffective....the Cubs go from being able to start Marshall, who has had ML success or Gallagher, who has faced ML hitters and has a decent upside....to having to throw a lesser talented or less ready pitcher on the mound.

[David]

BTW, if we lined it up Roberts, Lee, Fukudome (or something like that - I'm just assuming that Lou wants to break up Roberts and Fuku...), that's a lot of OBP before Ramirez and Soriano (and the other guys, for that matter).... :shock:

[YearofDaCubs]

I can't really argue with that. I guess having a great 1-8 lineup is going to yeild great results regardless. Let's hope we can at least get a great 1-7 or even 1-6 hitters. The jury will still be out on Soto and Theriot for a little while.

 

The teams that score the most runs each season are the teams who put up the best team OBP. The more your team is on base, the more the team scores, the more plate appearances guys get.

 

If you go back to Derrek Lee's 2005, not only did Lee suffer on plate appearances because of the poorly constructed line up, he had limited at bats with runners on base. His 99 XBH's that season ranks among the top offensive seasons in baseball history.

 

It is absolutely mind boggling that with that production while hitting number 3 in the lineup that he barely reached 100 RBIs.

 

He led the league in:

BA

SLG

OPS

Hits

Total Bases

Doubles

Runs Created

XBH

 

In the top 5 in:

OBP (4th)

Runs (2nd)

HR (2nd)

 

But finished distant 7th in RBI

That's what happens when you put Neifi Perez batting 1st or 2nd.

 

And Jose Macias And 2005 Corey Patterson.

I miss Dusty, I really do.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'm not a big fan of the trade, but Marshall had a 5.84 K/9 last year, Demp a 7.43. That surely isn't a conclusive stat by any means, but I think it hints at Marshall not being able to sustain any real success in the majors. I just don't believe in his ability at this level.

 

Dempster's career numbers as a starter:

 

988.2 IP

4.99 ERA

1.57 WHIP

.808 Opponent's OPS

1.11 HR/9

4.71 BB/9

9.39 H/9

 

There is nothing in there that gives me any faith that he'll do anything good as a starter.

 

I agree. I also believe that given some more time, Marshall and that ridiculous K/9 will see similar results. I don't like either option, but given the increase in WARP from DeRosa to Roberts, I don't mind giving away what I believe is nothing better than what we already are trotting out there. Marshall has something else going on IMO as well. His absence late in the season has me wondering.

 

The problem isn't Marshall, per se. It's that when somebody gets hurt or Marquis/Dempster are ineffective....the Cubs go from being able to start Marshall, who has had ML success or Gallagher, who has faced ML hitters and has a decent upside....to having to throw a lesser talented or less ready pitcher on the mound.

I guarantee that if we go into the season with Marquis and Demp as our 4th and 5th we are all going to go nuts. I'm expecting both of them to have an ERA upwards of 5. Both of them are terrible starters. I can live with a young guy giving us that for a but because essentially they will be going through growing pains. Marquis and Demp are veterans who can't use that excuse. It's not that I don't want Roberts as a Cub, the thing that bothers me is we already have a good 2B option and the starters we are giving up are actually going to give us a better chance of winning than our crappy 4th and 5th starters.

[Dr. Cub]

I'm not a big fan of the trade, but Marshall had a 5.84 K/9 last year, Demp a 7.43. That surely isn't a conclusive stat by any means, but I think it hints at Marshall not being able to sustain any real success in the majors. I just don't believe in his ability at this level.

 

Dempster's career numbers as a starter:

 

988.2 IP

4.99 ERA

1.57 WHIP

.808 Opponent's OPS

1.11 HR/9

4.71 BB/9

9.39 H/9

 

There is nothing in there that gives me any faith that he'll do anything good as a starter.

 

I agree. I also believe that given some more time, Marshall and that ridiculous K/9 will see similar results. I don't like either option, but given the increase in WARP from DeRosa to Roberts, I don't mind giving away what I believe is nothing better than what we already are trotting out there. Marshall has something else going on IMO as well. His absence late in the season has me wondering.

 

The problem isn't Marshall, per se. It's that when somebody gets hurt or Marquis/Dempster are ineffective....the Cubs go from being able to start Marshall, who has had ML success or Gallagher, who has faced ML hitters and has a decent upside....to having to throw a lesser talented or less ready pitcher on the mound.

 

I completely understand that line of thinking. I guess (my belief anyway) that I don't think Marshall can sustain anywhere close to the "success" he had at the major league level, and Gallagher (at this point) is a big question mark as to what he can or will produce. I just don't see there being a big difference between them and say Hart, or another filler. Hopefully this will all be for naught as we acquire another pitcher that's a better option than any of the 4 (Demp, Marq, Marshall or Gal).

[Rob]

I can't really argue with that. I guess having a great 1-8 lineup is going to yeild great results regardless. Let's hope we can at least get a great 1-7 or even 1-6 hitters. The jury will still be out on Soto and Theriot for a little while.

 

The teams that score the most runs each season are the teams who put up the best team OBP. The more your team is on base, the more the team scores, the more plate appearances guys get.

 

If you go back to Derrek Lee's 2005, not only did Lee suffer on plate appearances because of the poorly constructed line up, he had limited at bats with runners on base. His 99 XBH's that season ranks among the top offensive seasons in baseball history.

 

It is absolutely mind boggling that with that production while hitting number 3 in the lineup that he barely reached 100 RBIs.

 

He led the league in:

BA

SLG

OPS

Hits

Total Bases

Doubles

Runs Created

XBH

 

In the top 5 in:

OBP (4th)

Runs (2nd)

HR (2nd)

 

But finished distant 7th in RBI

That's what happens when you put Neifi Perez batting 1st or 2nd.

 

Yeah, but DLee wouldn't have had so many runs scored if all the good hitters on the team weren't batting behind him.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm not a big fan of the trade, but Marshall had a 5.84 K/9 last year, Demp a 7.43. That surely isn't a conclusive stat by any means, but I think it hints at Marshall not being able to sustain any real success in the majors. I just don't believe in his ability at this level.

 

Dempster's career numbers as a starter:

 

988.2 IP

4.99 ERA

1.57 WHIP

.808 Opponent's OPS

1.11 HR/9

4.71 BB/9

9.39 H/9

 

There is nothing in there that gives me any faith that he'll do anything good as a starter.

 

I agree. I also believe that given some more time, Marshall and that ridiculous K/9 will see similar results. I don't like either option, but given the increase in WARP from DeRosa to Roberts, I don't mind giving away what I believe is nothing better than what we already are trotting out there. Marshall has something else going on IMO as well. His absence late in the season has me wondering.

 

The problem isn't Marshall, per se. It's that when somebody gets hurt or Marquis/Dempster are ineffective....the Cubs go from being able to start Marshall, who has had ML success or Gallagher, who has faced ML hitters and has a decent upside....to having to throw a lesser talented or less ready pitcher on the mound.

Correct, the 2008 Chicago Cubs will use more than 5 starting pitchers throughout the season. They shouldn't be trading those who are closest to being ready to step in.

[Rob]

Honestly, I half expect that this means that Samardzija will be getting a handful of starts this year.

[Tyrant]

That Orioles site is ridiculous.

 

Now their excuse is the Goose Gossage thing. As if MLB would be so concerned that a mega-super-blockbuster trade of Brian Roberts would totally overshadow Gossage's election. I can see it (maybe) if there was a three-team deal that involved Jake Peavy, Johan Santana and David Wright, but a Roberts trade isn't going to overshadow a HoF vote.

 

They're all just throwing things around at this point. It's silly.

[Bull]

While I agree that I'd rather have the better second baseman than the better "leadoff hitter", leadoff is not artificial.

 

It may be a real thing, but it's value is artificially inflated. Guys who "can leadoff" are given greater market value, for no good reason. Roberts' value lies in his production numbers, not in his supposed ability to hit leadoff. There's nothing wrong with going after a player like Roberts, there is something wrong with going after a guy like Roberts because he can leadoff and thus paying a premium for that arbitrary qualification.

 

If you'd quote all of what I said, I think we're saying the same thing.

I said why not just keep DeRosa (not a traditional leadoff hitter) and bat him first...you get the same production and keep the young pitchers.

[David]

Honestly, I half expect that this means that Samardzija will be getting a handful of starts this year.

 

 

"How do you half-expect something?"

[UMFan83]

I can't really argue with that. I guess having a great 1-8 lineup is going to yeild great results regardless. Let's hope we can at least get a great 1-7 or even 1-6 hitters. The jury will still be out on Soto and Theriot for a little while.

 

The teams that score the most runs each season are the teams who put up the best team OBP. The more your team is on base, the more the team scores, the more plate appearances guys get.

 

If you go back to Derrek Lee's 2005, not only did Lee suffer on plate appearances because of the poorly constructed line up, he had limited at bats with runners on base. His 99 XBH's that season ranks among the top offensive seasons in baseball history.

 

It is absolutely mind boggling that with that production while hitting number 3 in the lineup that he barely reached 100 RBIs.

 

He led the league in:

BA

SLG

OPS

Hits

Total Bases

Doubles

Runs Created

XBH

 

In the top 5 in:

OBP (4th)

Runs (2nd)

HR (2nd)

 

But finished distant 7th in RBI

That's what happens when you put Neifi Perez batting 1st or 2nd.

 

Funny you mention that. If anyone has that Cubs DVD set that they released of great games for the Cubs, they randomly have a Derrek Lee 5-5 game against the Dodgers on there (Jon Koronka the starting pitcher). The funny thing about it is, the Cubs 1-2 hitters for that game were Neifi and Enrique Wilson. Wow, thanks MLB for the great DVDs of painful Cubs memories. (BTW Neifi goes 4-5 with a HR in the game)

[Bull]

Honestly, I half expect that this means that Samardzija will be getting a handful of starts this year.

 

 

"How do you half-expect something?"

 

the same way you have "half a mind" to do something

[rawaction]

Honestly, I half expect that this means that Samardzija will be getting a handful of starts this year.

 

That could be fun......for the opposition.

[fromthestretch]

I'm not a big fan of the trade, but Marshall had a 5.84 K/9 last year, Demp a 7.43. That surely isn't a conclusive stat by any means, but I think it hints at Marshall not being able to sustain any real success in the majors. I just don't believe in his ability at this level.

 

Dempster's career numbers as a starter:

 

988.2 IP

4.99 ERA

1.57 WHIP

.808 Opponent's OPS

1.11 HR/9

4.71 BB/9

9.39 H/9

 

There is nothing in there that gives me any faith that he'll do anything good as a starter.

 

I agree. I also believe that given some more time, Marshall and that ridiculous K/9 will see similar results. I don't like either option, but given the increase in WARP from DeRosa to Roberts, I don't mind giving away what I believe is nothing better than what we already are trotting out there. Marshall has something else going on IMO as well. His absence late in the season has me wondering.

 

The problem isn't Marshall, per se. It's that when somebody gets hurt or Marquis/Dempster are ineffective....the Cubs go from being able to start Marshall, who has had ML success or Gallagher, who has faced ML hitters and has a decent upside....to having to throw a lesser talented or less ready pitcher on the mound.

Correct, the 2008 Chicago Cubs will use more than 5 starting pitchers throughout the season. They shouldn't be trading those who are closest to being ready to step in.

 

I guess Hart would be next in line, but I have no idea who would be after that. They aren't going to want to rush Veal or Samardzija, so it could end up being someone like Walrond or O'Malley. Yikes. Is Mateo healthy?