Interest in Carl Crawford?

[CuseCubFan69]

If you're going to give up a lot for one player, go all out and try to get Cabrera. Crawford is good, but he's not elite.

 

The Cubs don't have what it takes to get an elite player, only a good player. And why not target a good player coming into his 27-year season?

 

When did I say the Cubs shouldn't go after Crawford? I just said don't give up too much for him. If you're going to overpay, then overpay for elite talent. If you're going to get good (but not elite) talent, don't overpay.

 

I agree but I'd also add elite talent that you can keep and not be a rent a year type player.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Cubs have plenty of pitchers in the system, but none of them project to be as good as Rich Hill. When has Hendry ever sold high on a Cubs player or prospect?

 

The better question is how many opportunities have there actually been? Prior, Zambrano, Hill, and Marmol. What other young talent has come up from the farm and shown 'sell high' value? The list is slim, and if Hendry had moved Pior or Zambrano, or moves Hill or Marmol, it would trigger a wrath-storm.

 

I wouldn't freak if Hendry trades Hill or Marmol, as long as he gets an elite player in return.

[moorecg]

The Cubs have plenty of pitchers in the system, but none of them project to be as good as Rich Hill. When has Hendry ever sold high on a Cubs player or prospect?

 

Bobby Hill and Matt Bruback for Aramis Ramirez

Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee

 

 

(In best Eddie Murphy voice) "Rocky Marciano...Rocky Marciano...every time you bring up boxing white man gotta bring up Rocky Marciano"....

 

(BTW...damn that was a funny movie)

[fromthestretch]

If you're going to give up a lot for one player, go all out and try to get Cabrera. Crawford is good, but he's not elite.

 

The Cubs don't have what it takes to get an elite player, only a good player. And why not target a good player coming into his 27-year season?

 

When did I say the Cubs shouldn't go after Crawford? I just said don't give up too much for him. If you're going to overpay, then overpay for elite talent. If you're going to get good (but not elite) talent, don't overpay.

 

I agree but I'd also add elite talent that you can keep and not be a rent a year type player.

 

Exactly.

[USSoccer]

The Cubs have plenty of pitchers in the system, but none of them project to be as good as Rich Hill. When has Hendry ever sold high on a Cubs player or prospect?

 

Bobby Hill and Matt Bruback for Aramis Ramirez

Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee

 

Both of those were salary dumps.

 

I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't be able to see that if you're going to give up two very good, pre arb pitchers, you should be getting more back than a player like Crawford. He's good. He'll never be elite. If you're willing to part with assets like Hill and Marmol at the same time, you need to set your sights higher.

[Derwood]

selling high on Rich Hill would have been trading him for Adam Dunn

[shnsajax]

selling high on Rich Hill would have been trading him for Adam Dunn

 

Could still sell high for Miggy.

[CubColtPacer]

selling high on Rich Hill would have been trading him for Adam Dunn

 

I would argue that Crawford's contract, his age, his extra stolen bases at a high percentage, and his defense combined at least make up for Dunn's offensive advantage right now if not make Crawford more attractive.

[Derwood]

selling high on Rich Hill would have been trading him for Adam Dunn

 

Could still sell high for Miggy.

 

according to most rumor sites, we aren't even in the conversation for miggy. all i hear is Yankees, Angels, Dodgers

[BigbadB]

Trading Rich Hill, Ronny Cedeno and Carlos Marmol for Carl Crawford would most definitely not be trading guys while their value is high.

 

Trading Rich Hill last year for some of the rumored guys would have been trading him high.

 

Rich Hill and Carlos Marmol currently have high trade value, I won't argue that.

 

But, if you really wanted to make these two guys available, I'd challenge someone to prove to me that they couldn't get more than Carl Crawford if you traded them separately.

 

A 2nd year reliever who is practically unhittable and could step into a closer role has incredible value. I'd challenge that Carlos Marmol could net Andre Ethier or possibly Matt Kemp from the Dodgers.

 

Not saying that a trade like this would happen within the division, but if the Brewers lost Cordero, do you think they would turn down a Carlos Marmol/Bill Hall deal?

 

Now, getting back to Rich Hill, who has settled into being a quality #3 starter. I'd bet a lot of teams would give up a good outfield prospect for a pitcher like Hill. But, if you could get a Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier with Marmol by himself, why trade a good #3 starter (who has the potential to be even better than that) and another prospect for the slight upgrade?

 

I'm not opposed to trading Hill. I'm not opposed to trading for Crawford. I really like Crawford. I am ridiculously opposed to trading Rich Hill, Carlos Marmol and Ronny Cedeno for Carl Crawford.

 

That would be a horrible trade. Period.

[BigbadB]

The Cubs have plenty of pitchers in the system, but none of them project to be as good as Rich Hill. When has Hendry ever sold high on a Cubs player or prospect?

 

Bobby Hill and Matt Bruback for Aramis Ramirez

Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee

 

Both of those were salary dumps.

 

I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't be able to see that if you're going to give up two very good, pre arb pitchers, you should be getting more back than a player like Crawford. He's good. He'll never be elite. If you're willing to part with assets like Hill and Marmol at the same time, you need to set your sights higher.

 

Ha. You just said in one paragraph what it took me a novel to say.

[CubColtPacer]

Trading Rich Hill, Ronny Cedeno and Carlos Marmol for Carl Crawford would most definitely not be trading guys while their value is high.

 

Trading Rich Hill last year for some of the rumored guys would have been trading him high.

 

Rich Hill and Carlos Marmol currently have high trade value, I won't argue that.

 

But, if you really wanted to make these two guys available, I'd challenge someone to prove to me that they couldn't get more than Carl Crawford if you traded them separately.

 

A 2nd year reliever who is practically unhittable and could step into a closer role has incredible value. I'd challenge that Carlos Marmol could net Andre Ethier or possibly Matt Kemp from the Dodgers.

 

Not saying that a trade like this would happen within the division, but if the Brewers lost Cordero, do you think they would turn down a Carlos Marmol/Bill Hall deal?

 

Now, getting back to Rich Hill, who has settled into being a quality #3 starter. I'd bet a lot of teams would give up a good outfield prospect for a pitcher like Hill. But, if you could get a Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier with Marmol by himself, why trade a good #3 starter (who has the potential to be even better than that) and another prospect for the slight upgrade?

 

I'm not opposed to trading Hill. I'm not opposed to trading for Crawford. I really like Crawford. I am ridiculously opposed to trading Rich Hill, Carlos Marmol and Ronny Cedeno for Carl Crawford.

 

That would be a horrible trade. Period.

 

Agreed with that, but that isn't the latest rumored trade. That one seems to have been debunked. Now the trade is supposedly Hill, Patterson, and a prospect, which is a much better deal.

[BigbadB]

Agreed with that, but that isn't the latest rumored trade. Now the trade is supposedly Hill, Patterson, and a prospect, which is a much better deal.

 

Isn't Patterson and a prospect a bit redundant? Patterson is a prospect. That's where I have a bit of trouble with this latest trade scenario. To me, I read Hill and Patterson (a Cub prospect).

 

That deal would be much better than the previously suggested one. I probably wouldn't get in my car and drive to Chicago and kick someone's ass if that was the trade, but I'm still not fond of trading Hill.

[Mephistopheles]

The Rays would prefer Cedeno over Patterson.

[USSoccer]

The Rays would prefer Cedeno over Patterson.

 

Which is fine.

 

I still think that a good GM should be able to sell Gallagher and Marshall plus Cedeno.

[Mephistopheles]

The Rays would prefer Cedeno over Patterson.

 

Which is fine.

 

I still think that a good GM should be able to sell Gallagher and Marshall plus Cedeno.

 

I still think that a good GM would be ale to get more than Gallagher and Marshall plus Cedeno. That proposal isn't feasible. You have to give up a proven MLB product to get a guy like Crawford. Marshall isn't that. Hill is. Although some of you aren't going to agree with the idea.

Edited November 14, 2007 by Mephistopheles

[shnsajax]

selling high on Rich Hill would have been trading him for Adam Dunn

 

Could still sell high for Miggy.

 

according to most rumor sites, we aren't even in the conversation for miggy. all i hear is Yankees, Angels, Dodgers

 

I would knock out the Yankees cause they won't pay what is needed for him.

[Mephistopheles]

Trading for Miguel Cabrera would be dumb.

 

The discussions would start at Rich Hill, Soto, Sean Marshall, Matt Murton, Felix Pie and Tyler Colvin. From the Cubs point of view they should stop there, because even that deal would get outbid.

[BigbadB]

selling high on Rich Hill would have been trading him for Adam Dunn

 

Could still sell high for Miggy.

 

according to most rumor sites, we aren't even in the conversation for miggy. all i hear is Yankees, Angels, Dodgers

 

I would knock out the Yankees cause they won't pay what is needed for him.

 

Yeah, I giggled a bit uncontrollably when I read the Rotoworld blurb that said the Yankees are very interested in Miggy, but will not allow Hughes, Chamberlain or Kennedy to be involved in a deal to get him. To get Miggy, it will take at least 2 of those guys.

[USSoccer]

The Rays would prefer Cedeno over Patterson.

 

Which is fine.

 

I still think that a good GM should be able to sell Gallagher and Marshall plus Cedeno.

 

I still think that a good GM would be ale to get more than Gallagher and Marshall plus Cedeno. That proposal isn't feasible. You have to give up a proven MLB product to get a guy like Crawford. Marshall isn't that. Hill is. Although some of you aren't going to agree with the idea.

 

Maybe you're right, although I still don't know why they wouldn't want the young pitching to be under team control as long as possible. Hill has, what, 3 years of service time?

[Mephistopheles]

If the discussions are including Hill, I would like to think we could get a real shortstop instead of Carl Crawford for him, but that's me.

[USSoccer]

If the discussions are including Hill, I would like to think we could get a real shortstop instead of Carl Crawford for him, but that's me.

 

If the deal is Marmol and Cedeno and prospect for Crawford, fine.

 

If it's Hill and Cedeno and prospect, I think we can do better than the Crawford upgrade.

[BigbadB]

The Rays would prefer Cedeno over Patterson.

 

Which is fine.

 

I still think that a good GM should be able to sell Gallagher and Marshall plus Cedeno.

 

I still think that a good GM would be ale to get more than Gallagher and Marshall plus Cedeno. That proposal isn't feasible. You have to give up a proven MLB product to get a guy like Crawford. Marshall isn't that. Hill is. Although some of you aren't going to agree with the idea.

 

Maybe you're right, although I still don't know why they wouldn't want the young pitching to be under team control as long as possible. Hill has, what, 3 years of service time?

 

Marshall and Gallagher would fall to about #3 and #4 on their minor league starter depth chart. The Rays want a premier player in return for giving up their top outfielder. You can't blame them for that. They want a Scott Kazmir type for Crawford. That's what justifies giving up a talent like Crawford.

[jersey cubs fan]

Trading for Miguel Cabrera would be dumb.

 

The discussions would start at Rich Hill, Soto, Sean Marshall, Matt Murton, Felix Pie and Tyler Colvin. From the Cubs point of view they should stop there, because even that deal would get outbid.

 

Take Dontrelle's $8m off their hands. Hill and Gallagher slot into their 2008 rotation, include Pie or Colvin. If you have Soriano in left and Cabrera in right, you don't need much production out of CF for the next few years. It's no guarantee to get outbid. Not everybody is anxious to give up huge amounts of talent, and pay the longterm extension Cabrera will want and does deserve.

 

It can't hurt to get in the discussion.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

This board overvalues its prospects tremendously.

 

But the Cubs have more Marmols and Hills coming.

 

Ummm