The Annual Meph Trade for Rocco Thread

[rawaction]

Well in relation to obp vs slg, just because BMW's are way better than Mercedes doesn't mean you shouldn't want a Mercedes.

 

Of course you prefer obp heavy production, but don't devalue slg production.

 

Exactly. Sure, I would prefer a guy like Drew (if $ were equal), who has the .380 OBP and potential to hit for power, but if he doesn't get his power back and Baldelli never develops more than a below average batting eye, I think Baldelli will be the better player.

[Tracer Bullet]

Well in relation to obp vs slg, just because BMW's are way better than Mercedes doesn't mean you shouldn't want a Mercedes.

 

Of course you prefer obp heavy production, but don't devalue slg production.

 

Exactly. Sure, I would prefer a guy like Drew (if $ were equal), who has the .380 OBP and potential to hit for power, but if he doesn't get his power back and Baldelli never develops more than a below average batting eye, I think Baldelli will be the better player.

 

So you're saying (assuming $ equal, which it isn't) Drew with a .380/.420/.800 OPS would be worse than Baldelli with a .330/.470/.800? Or are you saying Baldelli, even with a below average OBP (in the .320-.330 range) will have enough power that it will outweigh the 50-60 point advantage in OBP?

 

If the former, I respectfully disagree.

[BigbadB]

If health wasn't a factor, I'd be all over getting Baldelli.

 

With Baldelli, you need an extremely reliable and competent 4th outfielder that you can trust to fill in during any Baldelli absences.

[wolf stansson]

Well in relation to obp vs slg, just because BMW's are way better than Mercedes doesn't mean you shouldn't want a Mercedes.

 

Of course you prefer obp heavy production, but don't devalue slg production.

 

Exactly. Sure, I would prefer a guy like Drew (if $ were equal), who has the .380 OBP and potential to hit for power, but if he doesn't get his power back and Baldelli never develops more than a below average batting eye, I think Baldelli will be the better player.

 

So you're saying (assuming $ equal, which it isn't) Drew with a .380/.420/.800 OPS would be worse than Baldelli with a .330/.470/.800? Or are you saying Baldelli, even with a below average OBP (in the .320-.330 range) will have enough power that it will outweigh the 50-60 point advantage in OBP?

 

If the former, I respectfully disagree.

When comparing the players, it is bad.

 

What I'm saying is that obp is better than slg, but there really aren't many obp studs to be had. Thusly, if you can't get an obp stud producer, you shouldn't turn down the opportunity to get a stud producer who relies on slg instead.

 

Yes Drew is probably a better option, but if you can't get him, Baldelli is still good.

[jersey cubs fan]

What I'm saying is that obp is better than slg, but there really aren't many obp studs to be had. Thusly, if you can't get an obp stud producer, you shouldn't turn down the opportunity to get a stud producer who relies on slg instead.

 

Yes Drew is probably a better option, but if you can't get him, Baldelli is still good.

 

Baldelli isn't anywhere close to a stud producer. If his one half season of good production was maintained over a full season, maybe we could talk. But there isn't a whole lot of support for the theory that this would be likely.

[Mephistopheles]

What I'm saying is that obp is better than slg, but there really aren't many obp studs to be had. Thusly, if you can't get an obp stud producer, you shouldn't turn down the opportunity to get a stud producer who relies on slg instead.

 

Yes Drew is probably a better option, but if you can't get him, Baldelli is still good.

 

Baldelli isn't anywhere close to a stud producer. If his one half season of good production was maintained over a full season, maybe we could talk. But there isn't a whole lot of support for the theory that this would be likely.

 

Sure there is.

[Illini Iceman]

What I'm saying is that obp is better than slg, but there really aren't many obp studs to be had. Thusly, if you can't get an obp stud producer, you shouldn't turn down the opportunity to get a stud producer who relies on slg instead.

 

Yes Drew is probably a better option, but if you can't get him, Baldelli is still good.

 

Baldelli isn't anywhere close to a stud producer. If his one half season of good production was maintained over a full season, maybe we could talk. But there isn't a whole lot of support for the theory that this would be likely.

 

Sure there is.

 

Baldelli is a real solid player when healthy. His injuries have not been anything major like knee surgery. It has mostly been a nagging hamstring issue and it seems to me that by giving it a whole offseason that should be able to heal.

I don't think that the D-Rays will give him away, but it doesn't really seem that he is much in their plans with all the other outfielders they have. I would think a package of Marshall and perhaps Wuertz might be enough. Both are cheap but have major league experience so it wouldn't seem like a salary dump. The Rays could put Marshall right into the rotation and use Wuertz as an eighth inning set up man. They need pitching badly.

[imb]

What I'm saying is that obp is better than slg, but there really aren't many obp studs to be had. Thusly, if you can't get an obp stud producer, you shouldn't turn down the opportunity to get a stud producer who relies on slg instead.

 

Yes Drew is probably a better option, but if you can't get him, Baldelli is still good.

 

Baldelli isn't anywhere close to a stud producer. If his one half season of good production was maintained over a full season, maybe we could talk. But there isn't a whole lot of support for the theory that this would be likely.

 

Sure there is.

 

Baldelli is a real solid player when healthy. His injuries have not been anything major like knee surgery. It has mostly been a nagging hamstring issue and it seems to me that by giving it a whole offseason that should be able to heal.

I don't think that the D-Rays will give him away, but it doesn't really seem that he is much in their plans with all the other outfielders they have. I would think a package of Marshall and perhaps Wuertz might be enough. Both are cheap but have major league experience so it wouldn't seem like a salary dump. The Rays could put Marshall right into the rotation and use Wuertz as an eighth inning set up man. They need pitching badly.

 

I actually think that he did have acl or mcl surgery

[SweetZombieJesus]

What I'm saying is that obp is better than slg, but there really aren't many obp studs to be had. Thusly, if you can't get an obp stud producer, you shouldn't turn down the opportunity to get a stud producer who relies on slg instead.

 

Yes Drew is probably a better option, but if you can't get him, Baldelli is still good.

 

Baldelli isn't anywhere close to a stud producer. If his one half season of good production was maintained over a full season, maybe we could talk. But there isn't a whole lot of support for the theory that this would be likely.

 

Sure there is.

 

Baldelli is a real solid player when healthy. His injuries have not been anything major like knee surgery. It has mostly been a nagging hamstring issue and it seems to me that by giving it a whole offseason that should be able to heal.

I don't think that the D-Rays will give him away, but it doesn't really seem that he is much in their plans with all the other outfielders they have. I would think a package of Marshall and perhaps Wuertz might be enough. Both are cheap but have major league experience so it wouldn't seem like a salary dump. The Rays could put Marshall right into the rotation and use Wuertz as an eighth inning set up man. They need pitching badly.

 

I actually think that he did have acl or mcl surgery

 

He did like two years ago it was his ACL or he ruptured his achilles.

 

Right before he was supposed to get off the DL or the day he got off the DL. I can't remember which. I do remember picking him up in FBB and dropping him the very next day.

[badnews]

I wouldn't trade anything so good for Baldelli. There's little reason to assume he does as well as people say, or that he stays healthy. It almost seems like the Ryan Theriot reason. "Hey, he's a gritty white guy who once threw out two Red Sox in a row at home plate, I like him." It's odd how only his good half season counts, not the blah ones. If he were a Cub instead of a Devil Rays player people would be focused on his not-2006 numbers and his injury history instead of his gaudy 2006.

 

Bowden's preposterous prices seldom go down. Kearns may be playing himself out of a job at any rate.

 

Are you familiar with Baldelli? He was a top 6 draft pick and a top prospect in baseball for a couple years. He's a 5-tool player, and is by no means "gritty".

 

Also, I clearly mentioned Baldelli's full season, which was right at league average.....at age 22. I know he hasn't played much since, but at 26, there's no reason to believe he can't be better. Baldelli could have a Josh Hamilton like resurgence in 2008. He's every bit as talented, and more experienced.

 

Yeah, I'm familiar with Baldelli, and honestly, I don't think this discussion can go anywhere productive because you're just way too high on him. It seems like you're denigrating the term "5 tools," you're exaggerating his positive attributes, you're focused on his shortened 2006 season to the detriment of all else, and saying he can be "as good as it gets" and match Soriano's best seasons just seems unreasonable to me.

 

Baldelli was a top prospect, as many have been. He didn't exactly tear up the minors any better than Felix Pie. For Meph's price, I'd do the trade. But Meph's price is not going to get the deal done.

 

I don't like this business where we go wild over his shortened 2006 and ignore everything else. I don't like this business where we project to the moon just because he's under 30. And I certainly don't like this business where we have to pay a price in trade value like he's had a lot fewer struggles than he actually has had. It's like if we toss enough glittering adjectives around we can convince ourselves he's somebody we need him to be.

 

He's more of a groundball hitter than Matt Murton was this year, but he's going to be this Sorianoesque home run threat? Are these awful legs of his going to hold up midseason in Wrigley, where the field is often as bad as Adam Dunn actually says it is? Is this topic wildly overrated his defense?

 

He didn't get enough playing time in 2007 to say anything significant about his defense. In 2006 he was average in center field. In 2003-2004 he was above average but nothing that blows you away. He got a reputation as having a good arm when he threw out 2 baserunners at home in a row vs. the Red Sox but that was Dale Sveum's stupidity, I actually saw that game. Now all of a sudden we're making him out to be Richard Hidalgo.

 

There's just too many exaggerations here.

[badnews]

If health wasn't a factor, I'd be all over getting Baldelli.

 

With Baldelli, you need an extremely reliable and competent 4th outfielder that you can trust to fill in during any Baldelli absences.

 

The problem is, he has production questions and major health questions, but the big trade discount people see out there just isn't there. Baldelli could be Milton Bradley without the bad attitude (though apparently his attitude isn't a plus), where people keep trading better players for him, or it could be like if you traded a talented package for Jody Gerut after 2004.

 

Where's the accompanying glittering adjective-laden trade for Rich Harden topic?

[NCCubFan]

Baldelli could be Milton Bradley without the bad attitude (though apparently his attitude isn't a plus).....

He's a Devil Rays' outfielder. A bad attitude is a job requirement. :D