The Kosuke Fukudome & Hiroki Kuroda Thread

[craig]

I'm interested in Kuroda. As noted, he's had some very good years on a bad team in a small park. He's been pretty regularly an all-star, right? And he was selected for the Olympic Team even before he had the fabulous 06 season?

 

His stuff doesn't scout as anything great, so maybe that means no better than a back-of-rotation guy or maybe a disaster.

 

But his history is as a strike-thrower who's not HR-fodder despite pitching in a small park. His stuff doesn't translate as ace-like, granted. But if he can throw his stuff here without giving up a lot of HR's, then a guy with average stuff and an average HR-rate can be an above-average starter if his control and walks are noticably above average.

 

And, a guy who can throw strikes consistently is often a guy who can fairly consistently give you a decent cmpetitive game, and eat some innings.

 

I do always wonder whether a Japanese pitcher used to 6-days might not have the same stuff going in an American rotation. If he's 90-91 over there, but 87-89 over here, is he still as competitive?

[CUBZ99]

Craig - Do the scouting reports you have read have him in the low 90's? The report I read regarding Kuroda from the Seattle paper stated that he throws in the mid -90's with a slider, and a shootball(sp?). I would think that he would have a higher K rate if that were the case. I wonder if the Seattle paper was just making his stuff sound better than it really is?

[NYF]

I'm worried about losing Fukodome to the Giants. They have money to spend, need someone to energize their fan base with Barry gone, and can provide a good environment for a Japanese player.

 

considering the Giants lineup, and lack of 'star' power without Bonds, let's hope they go after A-Rod with the money, not Fukudome. besides, Fuku is not NEARLY old enough to play on that team...

[Post Count Padder]

I'm worried about losing Fukodome to the Giants. They have money to spend, need someone to energize their fan base with Barry gone, and can provide a good environment for a Japanese player.

 

considering the Giants lineup, and lack of 'star' power without Bonds, let's hope they go after A-Rod with the money, not Fukudome. besides, Fuku is not NEARLY old enough to play on that team...

They may sign Julio Franco just to keep the average age over 37. Heck, he alone may bring the average over 40.

[Post Count Padder]

I'm worried about losing Fukodome to the Giants. They have money to spend, need someone to energize their fan base with Barry gone, and can provide a good environment for a Japanese player.

I am too. Granted, I expect his power numbers to dip once he gets here, but he'll make up for it in other areas, and we need a good corner outfielder to compliment Soriano. If not him, then there is little out on the market.

[Mephistopheles]

I'm not sure how Irabu does anything but reinforce my statement that the history of Japanese pitchers coming to the states is shaky. 5 years in the states, 2 ERA's over 7, 5.15 for his career, 87 ERA+. Ishii was here for 4 years and had an ERA+ of 90.

 

Pulling one decent season out of your butt doesn't make you a solid reliable starter.

 

ishii was perfectly fine until he took a batted ball at 120 mph to the head.

 

he was the best pitcher in the league last season....

 

Perhaps because the elites had already moved on? I've heard nothing that says this guy is potentially special. Everything I've heard is potential 4th/5th starter. That's fine, but there isn't a good history of Japanese pitchers coming over and providing solid stable production. Glimpses, sure. A couple positive outliers, yes. But by and large the group has been shaky.

 

no one is saying hes special. everyone is saying he has back of the rotation upside. and no, the elites hadnt move on. not a single one.

[Bote McBoteface]

I'm worried about losing Fukodome to the Giants. They have money to spend, need someone to energize their fan base with Barry gone, and can provide a good environment for a Japanese player.

 

considering the Giants lineup, and lack of 'star' power without Bonds, let's hope they go after A-Rod with the money, not Fukudome. besides, Fuku is not NEARLY old enough to play on that team...

 

 

For the record, how old IS Fukudome?

[Brian]

will turn 31 in Apirl

[Guest]

Seattle Times[/url]"]Though Urbon is positioning Kuroda as a No. 1 or 2 starter, he is generally regarded by scouts as a middle-of-the-rotation pitcher.

 

Kuroda, who throws a fastball in the mid-90s, was 12-8 with a 3.56 earned-run average last season for Hiroshima. He led the Central League with 15 victories in 2005 and won the ERA title (1.85) in 2006.

 

Kuroda's agent is based in Seattle.

 

The big prize will be starter Hiroki Kuroda, 32, who was 12-8 with a 3.56 ERA for Hiroshima and who some believe is better than Daisuke Matsuzaka.

 

Kuroda, who reportedly prefers to play on the West Coast because he doesn't like cold weather, could command a salary greater than the six-year, $52 million deal Matsuzaka got because of his age and the scarcity of starting pitching in the market.

 

The favorable comp to Daisuke sounds like his agent speaking. Hopefully no one shows him what the weather is like in Chicago in April.

[Banedon]

Though Urbon is positioning Kuroda as a No. 1 or 2 starter, he is generally regarded by scouts as a middle-of-the-rotation pitcher.

 

Kuroda, who throws a fastball in the mid-90s, was 12-8 with a 3.56 earned-run average last season for Hiroshima. He led the Central League with 15 victories in 2005 and won the ERA title (1.85) in 2006.

 

Kuroda's agent is based in Seattle.

 

The big prize will be starter Hiroki Kuroda, 32, who was 12-8 with a 3.56 ERA for Hiroshima and who some believe is better than Daisuke Matsuzaka.

 

Kuroda, who reportedly prefers to play on the West Coast because he doesn't like cold weather, could command a salary greater than the six-year, $52 million deal Matsuzaka got because of his age and the scarcity of starting pitching in the market.

 

The favorable comp to Daisuke sounds like his agent speaking. Hopefully no one shows him what the weather is like in Chicago in April.

 

Yeah, I hope that cold weather thing is more of a guideline than an actual rule.

[Mephistopheles]

The Globe is [expletive]. No one is comparing him to Matsuzaka much less saying he's better. The only Japanese pitcher who would warrant those comparisons is Yu Darvish at this time.

[craig]

Craig - Do the scouting reports you have read have him in the low 90's? The report I read regarding Kuroda from the Seattle paper stated that he throws in the mid -90's with a slider, and a shootball(sp?). I would think that he would have a higher K rate if that were the case. I wonder if the Seattle paper was just making his stuff sound better than it really is?

 

Yeah, the reports I've read have been 89-91 type. I watched one inning on a youtube or something, and on that game his fastball seemed to be mostly 88-89, maybe one in the 90's?

 

I'd guess that every pitcher who can consistently work at 89 has touched 95 on occassion. So my impression is that he's a control guy more than a power guy. But, I don't know much.

 

Just to belabor the point. I remember one of his early spring trainings, Wuertz hit 95. Last winter I recall reading how Rocky Cherry was throwing 96-97 late in 06. I recall Z hitting 98 this season, but that wasn't anywhere close to where he pitched regularly. Mr. Gallagher reported that Sean hit 96 last week. I recall Sean marshall having a 93 mph this season.

 

I like Kuroda, and I sincerely hope we sign him. But if we do and he's successful, my guess is that his velocity will be no more exceptional than Lilly or Lieber or guys like that. If he's good, I expect it will be as a guy who can locate his fastball. Have a fastball that has enough zip/life combined with enough control so that he's not scared to throw it for strikes. Enough control so that with whatever velocity it has or doesn't have, he can put it where it will get outs rather than HR's.

[A New Era]

So how close is this to happening?

[Guest]

The LA Daily News said that up to 20 teams are interested in Kuroda because of how weak the FA class is.

[A New Era]

The LA Daily News said that up to 20 teams are interested in Kuroda because of how weak the FA class is.

 

But not Fukudome?

[Guest]

The LA Daily News said that up to 20 teams are interested in Kuroda because of how weak the FA class is.

 

But not Fukudome?

 

No clue about Fukudome. The Daily News mentioned Kuroda because the Dodgers are interested in him; given their OF situation, I don't think the Dodgers are interested in Fukudome. I think Kuroda will have more suitors because of how weak the FA pitching class is - especially compared to the FA OF class with guys like Andruw Jones and Torii Hunter.

[jersey cubs fan]

The LA Daily News said that up to 20 teams are interested in Kuroda because of how weak the FA class is.

 

But not Fukudome?

 

No clue about Fukudome. The Daily News mentioned Kuroda because the Dodgers are interested in him; given their OF situation, I don't think the Dodgers are interested in Fukudome. I think Kuroda will have more suitors because of how weak the FA pitching class is - especially compared to the FA OF class with guys like Andruw Jones and Torii Hunter.

 

Fine with me then. The Cubs aren't in a need of back of the rotation starters, and they are in need of lineup help, including OF.

[Guest]

The LA Daily News said that up to 20 teams are interested in Kuroda because of how weak the FA class is.

 

But not Fukudome?

 

No clue about Fukudome. The Daily News mentioned Kuroda because the Dodgers are interested in him; given their OF situation, I don't think the Dodgers are interested in Fukudome. I think Kuroda will have more suitors because of how weak the FA pitching class is - especially compared to the FA OF class with guys like Andruw Jones and Torii Hunter.

 

Fine with me then. The Cubs aren't in a need of back of the rotation starters, and they are in need of lineup help, including OF.

 

Agreed, though I'd take both if the Cubs can get rid of Marquis and/or Dempster and replace one of them with Kuroda.

 

The Sporting News says the Giants, Cubs and Rangers are the leading candidates for Fukudome. SI says Cubs, Giants, Padres and Mariners.

[A New Era]

I want both of them, mainly for comfort level for the star piece, Fukudome.

 

I'm really interested because one of the top things I think this team needs for '08 is outfield stability. Soriano is in LF, fine. CF and RF was a constant merry-go-round.

 

So now you have have Soriano in LF and Fukudome in RF. And either play pie or trade him for a good CF. I just want a stable (and good) outfield next year.

[Guest]

I want both of them, mainly for comfort level for the star piece, Fukudome.

 

I'm really interested because one of the top things I think this team needs for '08 is outfield stability. Soriano is in LF, fine. CF and RF was a constant merry-go-round.

 

So now you have have Soriano in LF and Fukudome in RF. And either play pie or trade him for a good CF. I just want a stable (and good) outfield next year.

 

If you want another Japanese player for comfort level alone and aren't that interested in Kuroda, go after a reliever who will come much cheaper (I've heard LHP Hitoki Iwase mentioned as a possible free agent but I have no clue if he's any good...meph or 1908 can chime in on that).

[snoodmonger]

How does the Dempster conversion affect our pursuit of Kuroda? It would seem to me that, with a limited budget, Hendry would be loathe to sign Kuroda as an insurance policy to Demp.

[Mephistopheles]

Hitoki Iwase would be fine considering the nearly 100% success rate of Japanese relievers crossing The Lake. I don't think he's as good as Ishii (hurt these days) or our god, Fujikawa but he's better than Okajima. Iwase routinely has a 65:8 or so K:BB. He's got good control, decent slide piece and a decent fastball. He's more americanized than Okajima. He's not the blow away guy that Ishii or Fujikawa would be. I'm fairly certain Fujikawa would strike out 120 batters in 80 innings his first year here. He's actually more than likely moving to Hanshin's rotation next season if they can't sign Kenshin Kawakami or Kuroda. Kawakami is another guy who might be here this offseason. Kawakami might be a borderline 4/5 guy but probably a setup guy. Alright fastball good command.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/640355,cubs110707.article

 

cdl arrives to the japanese party.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Mephistopheles

[Mephistopheles]

How does the Dempster conversion affect our pursuit of Kuroda? It would seem to me that, with a limited budget, Hendry would be loathe to sign Kuroda as an insurance policy to Demp.

 

Probably not much. If Hendry has a chance to add a good starter you could see the Dempster decision reversed like it was this year. I'd be willing to bet there's a 75% chance Ryan Dempster does not start a game in April for the Chicago Cubs.

[Guest]

Hitoki Iwase would be fine considering the nearly 100% success rate of Japanese relievers crossing The Lake. I don't think he's as good as Ishii (hurt these days) or our god, Fujikawa but he's better than Okajima. Iwase routinely has a 65:8 or so K:BB. He's got good control, decent slide piece and a decent fastball. He's more americanized than Okajima. He's not the blow away guy that Ishii or Fujikawa would be. I'm fairly certain Fujikawa would strike out 120 batters in 80 innings his first year here. He's actually more than likely moving to Hanshin's rotation next season if they can't sign Kenshin Kawakami or Kuroda. Kawakami is another guy who might be here this offseason. Kawakami might be a borderline 4/5 guy but probably a setup guy. Alright fastball good command.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/640355,cubs110707.article

 

cdl arrives to the japanese party.

 

Nice, I like the sounds of Iwase, esp. if he comes relatively cheap.

 

And why the heck are the Cubs looking at Silva (based on your CDL link)? Ugh.

[Mephistopheles]

Because Silva's one of the better FA options. He's going to be priced out of the Cubs range, so don't worry about it. If you want a second Japanese player to go with Fukudome to ease his transition, don't get in a bidding war over a guy may wind up being a LOOGY. Take a flier on Tomohiro Nioka. He's interested in coming to the majors this year. He's not a great player, he's maybe the third best shortstop in Japan, but he has enough power to hit 10 home runs and could hit .280/.320 or so. He is a shortstop and is supposedly pretty good there defensively. If we don't have a plan to replace Theriot, signing this guy and having the two splitting time wouldn't be the worst idea in the world. I don't think Nioka is going to generate a lot of buzz to the point where he's expensive.