Gordon Wittenmeyer: Don't trade Jacque

[Schwarber Fan]

Assuming the blank checks are as elusive for the Cubs this winter as a done deal on the sale of the team -- which assumes no A-Rod sweepstakes and no $15 million free agents of any ilk -- the top of the Cubs' offseason list of priorities in 2008 becomes pretty simple.

 

No. 1 on that list: Don't trade Jacque Jones.

 

Suntimes

 

I can't wait for the reactions to this

 

sorry if it belongs in transactions

[David]

I've been saying Whittenmeyer is a poor man's Sullivan since Spring Training. I saw it right away. I wish they wouldn't hire such crap baseball writers in this town. Edited October 10, 2007 by David

[Soul]

In addition to the backlash on Jones, I expect this to also garner some ire around here:

 

Felix Pie? Forget it. He has speed and a strong arm, but he's not a major-league hitter, and it's questionable whether he ever will be. In fact, the Cubs would be better off trading Pie now, while his perceived value is high enough to get serious return for him. It was obvious by the end of the season -- and after a .216 batting average during his three shots at the starting center-field job -- that manager Lou Piniella isn't convinced the reality matches the hype with Pie.

 

I'm not quite there yet, but I must admit my confidence in Pie's hitting abilities is shaken.

[jersey cubs fan]

what a stupid defense.

 

If you think he's the only legit possibility for CF, fine. You're wrong, but fine, there's defense for the logic. The rest is a bunch of nonsense. He was awful this year, and has been a bad player throughout most of his career, and most of the past 4 or so years. He's exactly the type of player this team needs less of.

[JGalt73]

Wittenmeyer is crazy. Jacque Jones VORP was 7.6 runs this year, 8th on the Cubs and 29th for CF in MLB. He played a good CF. There is a lot of room for offensive CF improvement.

[weatherdood]

If Jones is back on the Cubs in 2008, I will be one very unhappy person

[USSoccer]

The level of opinion in that article is staggering. If he thinks they should deal Pie, fine, but back up your argument with facts, not more opinion.

[Sammy Sofa]

I can't believe he thinks Pie got anything even close to a fair and consistent shot at being a starting player.

 

I'll bet he was ranting that the Cubs shouldn't have let Pierre go after his "great year."

[CUBZ99]

Wasn't this guy a beat writer for the Twins prior to coming to the Trib? Him and Jacque must have a real tight relationship for him to write this article. I think it would be ignorant to give up on Pie, before he has even gotten a legitimate shot.

[Abe Frohman]

Concerning Pie - I don't know what to expect from him. He has an awful LONG swing for a fast guy. Kinda like Patterson. I would love to see him shorten it up and be a better contact hitter.

[SouthSideRyan]

Concerning Pie - I don't know what to expect from him. He has an awful LONG swing for a fast guy. Kinda like Patterson. I would love to see him shorten it up and be a better contact hitter.

 

Why does it matter if he's fast. Either he has a long swing for anyone, or he doesn't. Speed has nothing to do with it. Not every guy who's fast has to play like Juan Pierre. Imagine if someone made Rickey pound everything to the ground and bunt every other AB.

[Rob]

Concerning Pie - I don't know what to expect from him. He has an awful LONG swing for a fast guy. Kinda like Patterson. I would love to see him shorten it up and be a better contact hitter.

 

Trying to turn CPatt into a contact hitter ruined him.

[Guest]

I'd like to see them keep Jacque and pencil him in for CF in 2008 but give Pie the chance to win the job next year. Jacque had a solid second half (.832 OPS) which is .001 less than he put up in a full year last year. If Pie can't get it done, then the Cubs have a relatively cheap, suitable replacement to put there rather than being crap out of luck.

 

I wouldn't necessarily be disappointed if Jacque got dealt but I don't think the Cubs have to get rid of him and don't think they should get rid of him just for the sake of getting rid of him.

[badnews]

I'm not as opposed to this article as others. I don't have a ton of faith in Pie either, and I don't like Jones, but what does trading Jones for the crap offers out there accomplish? He played a good defensive center field and he does average 22 home runs a season. I don't see the logic in paying 90% of Jones's salary in exchange for a 25 year old player in Low A ball just so we can sit back, fold our arms, and say "Ha! Take that Jones!"

[BigbadB]

Yeah, and while we're being stuck with him for one last year, can someone help him find the power he somehow lost?

[badnews]

Beltran had a .744 OPS his first year with the Mets. Andruw's OPS is barely higher than Jacque's.

 

Let's sell at rock bottom value while picking up most of his salary while counting on an unproven rookie, that seems smart.

 

To me, this makes as much sense as people who want to get rid of Prior just so we can feel like we're "moving on."

[BigbadB]

Beltran had a .744 OPS his first year with the Mets. Andruw's OPS is barely higher than Jacque's.

 

Let's sell at rock bottom value while picking up most of his salary while counting on an unproven rookie, that seems smart.

 

To me, this makes as much sense as people who want to get rid of Prior just so we can feel like we're "moving on."

 

If you are responding to me, I think you read my post wrong.

[soapy]

Beltran had a .744 OPS his first year with the Mets. Andruw's OPS is barely higher than Jacque's.

 

Let's sell at rock bottom value while picking up most of his salary while counting on an unproven rookie, that seems smart.

 

To me, this makes as much sense as people who want to get rid of Prior just so we can feel like we're "moving on."

 

wait, i think i'm reading this wrong. are you comparing J. Jones to Beltran? you couldn't be.

 

as to the idea of trading Jones; i'm for it in the right deal. i don't know about just dumping him and eating the salary just to get rid of thim. he could provide some value if used properly (platooning with Murton in RF or a fallback option for CF). the problem of course is that he may not be.

[UK1679666180]

When did Jacque become a good defensive CF'er?

 

From watching him out there, below avg. arm, avg. range, and poor instincts is what I saw from him defensively.

 

From Pie, you'll get one of the best defensive CF'ers in the game, prob. 2nd best to Taveras in Colorado.

 

Obviously, we don't know about Pie's bat. He hasn't had a stretch where he looks comfortable with how the pitchers are working him and he hasn't the squared up the ball enough.

[badnews]

I'm saying if a guy has a year down from his career averages, it doesn't automatically mean he's toast.

 

The more I read on this topic, the less I understand. Why are we so up in arms to get rid of a good defensive center fielder, .735 OPS guy who hit well in the clutch? What about all of the people carping to give Rowand 4/40, who had OPSes of .736 and .745 in back to back years? Jones had a higher OPS than Andruw Jones, David DeJesus, Melky Cabrera, Coco Crisp, Vernon Wells, Dave Roberts, Juan Pierre, and Corey Patterson. His OPS was within 15 points of Taveras, Johnny Damon, Gary Matthews Jr., and Bill Hall. Are most of those guys just going to be given away? Every fielding metric said he was very good defensively in center field this year. His salary is fine, look at what A. J. Pierzynski got for doing nothing well, offensively or defensively, this year.

 

The more I think about it, the more it seems like a gut-level reactionary stance. Selling a guy at the bottom of his value is such a Cubs move. The best offers we had during the season were: The Cubs pay 90% of his salary and get back some other team's version of Jesse Estrada or Jamal Spearman. How about no way.

[BigbadB]

I want Pie to win the job in CF. But, I would rather not see Angel Pagan as the heir apparent if Pie doesn't make it.

 

For that reason, I'm all good with keeping Jones for the remainder of this season. And while we have him, I sure wish someone would help him figure out where his power went.

[badnews]

I'm not going to argue about Pie. Too many Pie supporters are as gung-ho as cult fanatics and there's nothing you can say. Pie's defense was good but it wasn't as good as advertised. People said his arm was better than Jeff Francouer's, but we know how many assists Francouer racked up in a short time, and how many Pie has, and it's not because nobody's running. He doesn't have the howitzer people have boasted about. He could succeed but he also could not. In any event I'm not going to respond to the ten posts of sputtering outrage this post will generate so we'll have to agree to disagree. Pie is good defensively, but people have exaggerated. That's all I'm saying. Somehow this will get distorted into "He's Adam Dunn out there" I fear.

 

I don't think Jones is great. I just don't think you give away a .735 OPS good defensive center fielder for less than nothing.

[UK1679666180]

Jones isn't the type of player you block someone with the ceiling of Pie for. Pie has done everything he can at AAA, but him at the btm of the order and find out. To trade Pie and keep Jones without any prospects in the near future in CF doesn't make sense.

 

I got nothing against Jones, except that I think Pie will develop into a better ballplayer, already better defensively and cheaper.

 

This Cubs team isn't a WS contender with Jones in CF and without sign. upgrades at SS and RF, which is why I'd rather see Pie and his higher ceiling over Jones.

[USSoccer]

I don't think Jones is great. I just don't think you give away a .735 OPS good defensive center fielder for less than nothing.

 

Having a .735 OPS isn't anything to tout. It's pretty awful for an OF. He's not that good defensively. He's lost all his power.

 

I am not advocating giving Jones away, but if you find a good deal, you take it, because as Ping pointed out, you don't block Pie for Jones' sake.

[Lefty]

I wouldn't just dump Jones. But if someone took his salary, which I think is $6 million in 2008, and the money saved could be used toward A-Rod or Furcal, I'd take a chance on Pie in CF with no back-up plan.