I want me some JJ love..................

[SouthSideRyan]

The Jacque-O-Meter is up to 724 good for an 86 OPS+

 

Since being re-inserted in the everyday lineup he is OPSing 851. That's not to excuse his early season play as he played just about everyday then and was putting up a 614.

 

And for the mostly useless stat, Jacque is OPS+ing 98 compared to OPSes of all CFs in the majors.

 

Jacque's 1st half BABIP was 265, his 2nd half BABIP is 361. His career BABIP is 317. So shocking to everyone I'm sure, he's not as good as he's been in the 2nd half, and not as terrible as he was in the 1st. I'd guess Jacque finishes up the season as a decent player for his contract and a decent player for his position, which is all I think anyone was expecting/hoping for out of him. His ability to play a solid CF has been the most important thing he's brought to the table this year.

[CubmanPi]

The Jacque-O-Meter is up to 724 good for an 86 OPS+

 

Since being re-inserted in the everyday lineup he is OPSing 851. That's not to excuse his early season play as he played just about everyday then and was putting up a 614.

 

And for the mostly useless stat, Jacque is OPS+ing 98 compared to OPSes of all CFs in the majors.

 

Jacque's 1st half BABIP was 265, his 2nd half BABIP is 361. His career BABIP is 317. So shocking to everyone I'm sure, he's not as good as he's been in the 2nd half, and not as terrible as he was in the 1st. I'd guess Jacque finishes up the season as a decent player for his contract and a decent player for his position, which is all I think anyone was expecting/hoping for out of him. His ability to play a solid CF has been the most important thing he's brought to the table this year.

I was with you all the way up to the last sentence. How many balls does he have to misplay or just completely lose, and how bad does his arm have to be before his CF is no longer considered solid? I still haven't gotten everyone else's input on the opener in SF, but from where I was it looked like he was locked in on the ball, camped out underneath it, and waited until right before it hit the ground to realize how far off he was. He also had a stretch where losing the ball in was at least a weekly occurence.

 

Regardless, your points about his abnormally crappy/hardcore first and second halves are good and valid points, and I agree that his offensive production overall is looking to level out where it was reasonable to hope it would. I'm glad for him and for the sanity of everyone here that his output has turned around the way it did.

[genbar]

Man, all the dude wanted to do was create a JJ love post. You guys killed it!

[rawaction]

For me, he's a player that hard to NOT root for. From all accounts, he's a great guy off the field, arrives to the ballpark earlier than most, and you see a smile on his face during games more than any other Cub. I don't get how he's not easy to root for. He pisses me off a lot when he swings at junk two feet off the plate, but I like Jacque.

 

This perfectly describes Corey Patterson as a Cub too (except for the smile during games thing, which I won't even get into that comment), yet he still was bashed for not caring and not being coachable.

[soapy]

Wasn't there a thread just like this about a week or two ago?

 

Anyway, WTG, Jacque. I hope you can keep it up.

[RynoRules]

 

Good job hitting though Jones, I am glad for games we won because of your hitting.

 

Exactly.

 

And I appreciate the fact that he seems to be enjoying himself. A happy worker is a more productive worker, in my experience.

 

I also agree with Vance that we should try and deal him during the offseason and upgrade.

 

Finally, I don't understand why some of you find it so hard to admit that he has done a very nice job since the ASB. Its like there's some sort of Anti-Jacque society out there:

 

"The first rule of Jones Club is we never say anything about him that could be perceived as a compliment."

 

:wink:

[badger1679666666]

yeah, he's proving the world wrong with that .718 OPS.

 

His OPS in the second half is .851. Please find me CF'ers we could have had with a better second half OPS.

 

His OPS over his last 30 games is .924.

 

It's clear that his abhorrent start is affecting that OPS greatly, so comments like yours are clearly disingenuous because they look at his numbers in a vacuum. It's clear he's been a different Jock since the break. Posting those numbers wouldn't help you though.l

[Soul]

 

Good job hitting though Jones, I am glad for games we won because of your hitting.

 

Exactly.

 

And I appreciate the fact that he seems to be enjoying himself. A happy worker is a more productive worker, in my experience.

 

I also agree with Vance that we should try and deal him during the offseason and upgrade.

 

Finally, I don't understand why some of you find it so hard to admit that he has done a very nice job since the ASB. Its like there's some sort of Anti-Jacque society out there:

 

"The first rule of Jones Club is we never say anything about him that could be perceived as a compliment."

 

:wink:

 

Well, he is taking ABs away from Pie, and a lot of people wanted to see more of Pie in the 2nd half. That didn't happen, so we do have our "solution" at CF waiting for another chance.

 

Just saying.

[jersey cubs fan]

yeah, he's proving the world wrong with that .718 OPS.

 

His OPS in the second half is .851. Please find me CF'ers we could have had with a better second half OPS.

 

His OPS over his last 30 games is .924.

 

It's clear that his abhorrent start is affecting that OPS greatly, so comments like yours are clearly disingenuous because they look at his numbers in a vacuum. It's clear he's been a different Jock since the break. Posting those numbers wouldn't help you though.l

 

So only posting his good numbers is more genuine?

 

Jones has been awful this year. But he's been great for much of the 2nd half. Good for him. It's always fun to see a hot Jacque, because hot Jacque really hits the ball hard and can rack up the XBH. It's just unfortunate that he's so rarely hot.

[Soul]

I know, I don't think I want to go through another April - June Jock Junk Streak.

 

I'd very much like him to be traded this offseason for a hitter who can keep a more consistent level of production.

[Elrhino]

If JJ came up through the Cubs system and everyone invested enough of their lives to keep track of his AA boxscores every day, this board would be demand a JJ shrine be built in front of Wrigley Field after this second half of the season.

[Soul]

If JJ came up through the Cubs system and everyone invested enough of their lives to keep track of his AA boxscores every day, this board would be demand a JJ shrine be built in front of Wrigley Field after this second half of the season.

 

Haha. Actually, there's precious little room around Wrigley now. Let's build a "tomb of the unknown Cubbie" and then just let everyone use their imagination.

[rawaction]

If JJ came up through the Cubs system and everyone invested enough of their lives to keep track of his AA boxscores every day, this board would be demand a JJ shrine be built in front of Wrigley Field after this second half of the season.

 

That's because he would likely be in his early 20s instead of 31, and what he's doing now would be 8 billion times more likely to be a sign of things to come rather than a career aberration.

 

If you can't honestly respect the difference between a homegrown prospect coming up and putting up these numbers for the league minimum and a past-prime FA signing putting up these numbers after a horrible 1st half of the season and a career of mediocrity, then there's really no use in you continuing this discussion, because you will get ripped to shreds.

[CubColtPacer]

yeah, he's proving the world wrong with that .718 OPS.

 

His OPS in the second half is .851. Please find me CF'ers we could have had with a better second half OPS.

 

His OPS over his last 30 games is .924.

 

It's clear that his abhorrent start is affecting that OPS greatly, so comments like yours are clearly disingenuous because they look at his numbers in a vacuum. It's clear he's been a different Jock since the break. Posting those numbers wouldn't help you though.l

 

So only posting his good numbers is more genuine?

 

Jones has been awful this year. But he's been great for much of the 2nd half. Good for him. It's always fun to see a hot Jacque, because hot Jacque really hits the ball hard and can rack up the XBH. It's just unfortunate that he's so rarely hot.

 

It's just that we're in the middle of the season right now. Jacque got criticized plenty for his play in April-June. There was even a 50 page thread where everybody was really happy he got traded, and rightly so.

At the same point, he deserves to be praised for his recent play.

Let's analyze the full season after the year-right now Jones deserves praise because he has kept this team in first place the past month.

 

Let's put it another way-did Marquis not deserve criticism in June and July because his overall numbers still looked quite good? Of course he did, because he was struggling. By the same token, Jacque deserves praise for his recent play even though the full season numbers still are slightly below average for a CF.

 

btw-this post isn't a complete direct reply to you, it's more of a general reply to a few posts in the thread.

[jersey cubs fan]

If JJ came up through the Cubs system and everyone invested enough of their lives to keep track of his AA boxscores every day, this board would be demand a JJ shrine be built in front of Wrigley Field after this second half of the season.

 

Maybe if he was 25. The problem with your theory is JJ has been around long enough, and has a long enough track record that people know there isn't any upside to his game. So unlike with Pie or Murton, where we expect significant improvement, and therefore can accept some short-term struggles, there's no room for error with JJ. At his age, you know what you are going to get, and that's unacceptable OBP and overall too little production for a corner OF.

[Warren Brusstar]

 

Good job hitting though Jones, I am glad for games we won because of your hitting.

 

Exactly.

 

And I appreciate the fact that he seems to be enjoying himself. A happy worker is a more productive worker, in my experience.

 

I also agree with Vance that we should try and deal him during the offseason and upgrade.

 

Finally, I don't understand why some of you find it so hard to admit that he has done a very nice job since the ASB. Its like there's some sort of Anti-Jacque society out there:

 

"The first rule of Jones Club is we never say anything about him that could be perceived as a compliment."

 

:wink:

 

Because many of them took the irrational position that Jacque was more likely to continue to produce at a sub .700 OPS in second half rather than producing at or about his career norms. They were wrong. In fact, he's been even better. People don't like to admit when they are wrong.

 

The funny thing is that the dislike for Hendry and dislike for Jones here seems to be clouding the judgment of certain of our so-called analytical posters. It was a pretty unremarkable proposition -- from an analytical perspective -- to suggest that Jones was likely to produce at or about career norms in the second half. Nevertheless, certain so-called analytical posters rejected that notion. In my view, that's a function of their personal dislike of Hendry and Jones.

[jersey cubs fan]

yeah, he's proving the world wrong with that .718 OPS.

 

His OPS in the second half is .851. Please find me CF'ers we could have had with a better second half OPS.

 

His OPS over his last 30 games is .924.

 

It's clear that his abhorrent start is affecting that OPS greatly, so comments like yours are clearly disingenuous because they look at his numbers in a vacuum. It's clear he's been a different Jock since the break. Posting those numbers wouldn't help you though.l

 

So only posting his good numbers is more genuine?

 

Jones has been awful this year. But he's been great for much of the 2nd half. Good for him. It's always fun to see a hot Jacque, because hot Jacque really hits the ball hard and can rack up the XBH. It's just unfortunate that he's so rarely hot.

 

It's just that we're in the middle of the season right now. Jacque got criticized plenty for his play in April-June. There was even a 50 page thread where everybody was really happy he got traded, and rightly so.

At the same point, he deserves to be praised for his recent play.

Let's analyze the full season after the year-right now Jones deserves praise because he has kept this team in first place the past month.

 

Let's put it another way-did Marquis not deserve criticism in June and July because his overall numbers still looked quite good? Of course he did, because he was struggling. By the same token, Jacque deserves praise for his recent play even though the full season numbers still are slightly below average for a CF.

 

btw-this post isn't a complete direct reply to you, it's more of a general reply to a few posts in the thread.

 

I don't really buy into your "deserves praise" theory. Jacque's job is to produce. He has done so at a very good rate for a fair amount of time, and at a very poor rate for a longer period of time. Personally, the fact that he regularly shows the ability to produce like this, but is unable to maintain it over the long haul provides me with more frustration than justification for praising the guy.

[Banedon]

I hope he keeps it up so we can sell high this offseason.

[Warren Brusstar]

If JJ came up through the Cubs system and everyone invested enough of their lives to keep track of his AA boxscores every day, this board would be demand a JJ shrine be built in front of Wrigley Field after this second half of the season.

 

Maybe if he was 25. The problem with your theory is JJ has been around long enough, and has a long enough track record that people know there isn't any upside to his game. So unlike with Pie or Murton, where we expect significant improvement, and therefore can accept some short-term struggles, there's no room for error with JJ. At his age, you know what you are going to get, and that's unacceptable OBP and overall too little production for a corner OF.

 

1. He's a legit CF.

 

2. Against RHP, he's a tremendous asset as a CF. He doesn't need more upside.

[CubColtPacer]

I hope he keeps it up so we can sell high this offseason.

 

Yeah, if we didn't have Pie, I'd be perfectly fine having Jacque as our CF for the last year of his deal. Being that Pie is here and has little left to prove in AAA, I hope Jacque gets traded in the offseason. I wouldn't be shocked though to see the Cubs move Jacque back to RF, have him platoon with Murton, and have Pie play full-time in CF. That wouldn't be awful, but it would be far from the best option.

[RynoRules]

I hope he keeps it up so we can sell high this offseason.

 

Bingo. Someone will grab him from us, especially since he has one yr left on his deal at a very reasonable price.

 

EDIT: I also hope he keeps it up so we can win the division and have a shot at the WS.

Edited August 29, 2007 by RynoRules

[rawaction]

 

Good job hitting though Jones, I am glad for games we won because of your hitting.

 

Exactly.

 

And I appreciate the fact that he seems to be enjoying himself. A happy worker is a more productive worker, in my experience.

 

I also agree with Vance that we should try and deal him during the offseason and upgrade.

 

Finally, I don't understand why some of you find it so hard to admit that he has done a very nice job since the ASB. Its like there's some sort of Anti-Jacque society out there:

 

"The first rule of Jones Club is we never say anything about him that could be perceived as a compliment."

 

:wink:

 

Because many of them took the irrational position that Jacque was more likely to continue to produce at a sub .700 OPS in second half rather than producing at or about his career norms. They were wrong. In fact, he's been even better. People don't like to admit when they are wrong.

 

The funny thing is that the dislike for Hendry and dislike for Jones here seems to be clouding the judgment of certain of our so-called analytical posters. It was a pretty unremarkable proposition -- from an analytical perspective -- to suggest that Jones was likely to produce at or about career norms in the second half. Nevertheless, certain so-called analytical posters rejected that notion. In my view, that's a function of their personal dislike of Hendry and Jones.

 

This post is complete BS. He's been great. Everybody has admitted that. But overall he has still been piss poor. Are we not looking at the big picture now because everything is rosy?

 

I'd also like to add that when Jones was signed, I posted that I thought he would turn out better than expected. He was coming off of a year where he walked in 9% of his plate appearances, which if continued would have made him a steal. It didn't. He did provide power last year, but has done neither for the most part of this year.

Edited August 29, 2007 by rawaction

[RynoRules]

 

I don't really buy into your "deserves praise" theory. Jacque's job is to produce. He has done so at a very good rate for a fair amount of time, and at a very poor rate for a longer period of time. Personally, the fact that he regularly shows the ability to produce like this, but is unable to maintain it over the long haul provides me with more frustration than justification for praising the guy.

 

Goony, you can take the fun out of almost anything; do you like ice cream and pizza? :wink:

[jersey cubs fan]

I hope he keeps it up so we can sell high this offseason.

 

Yeah, if we didn't have Pie, I'd be perfectly fine having Jacque as our CF for the last year of his deal. Being that Pie is here and has little left to prove in AAA, I hope Jacque gets traded in the offseason. I wouldn't be shocked though to see the Cubs move Jacque back to RF, have him platoon with Murton, and have Pie play full-time in CF. That wouldn't be awful, but it would be far from the best option.

 

If they can't find a legit RF, then it might be the only option.

 

I think the Cubs are going to have to trim some fat where they can, but ridding themselves of some mid-tier contracts, like the ones Blanco, Jones, Eyre, Howry, DeRosa and even Marquis have signed. The first three I listed are probably the ones I'd deal first, with Marquis also thrown in.

 

I would also not hesitate to include Pie in a deal for a true difference maker, and just run out Jones there for one more year in center. Then you can probably go with Colvin in center by 2009, and even if he's lacking you could have some serious production out of your two corners.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

I don't really buy into your "deserves praise" theory. Jacque's job is to produce. He has done so at a very good rate for a fair amount of time, and at a very poor rate for a longer period of time. Personally, the fact that he regularly shows the ability to produce like this, but is unable to maintain it over the long haul provides me with more frustration than justification for praising the guy.

 

Goony, you can take the fun out of almost anything; do you like ice cream and pizza? :wink:

 

I don't see how I'm taking the fun out of anything here. I just don't buy into the "deserves praise" thing. Praise is a pretty strong word. I'm not going to praise any player who has a hot streak. I'm going to enjoy it, and be happy it happened, but why does it mean the player deserves praise? It's a bit melo-dramatic if you ask me. What matters is what the guy does over a full season, and in the case of free agents, the full, or at least most of, the contract. I didn't praise Alou for what he did in 2004 because it was too little too late in my book, as he crapped the bed in his first free agency year, when he was making what was at the time really big money. And he was, in my opinion, also a bit disappointing in 2003 (especially when compared with what he did before and after being a Cub).

 

If Jones were to somehow significantly outperform my expectations for him, then I'd be all for praising the guy. But the fact remains that as a Cub, Jones has basically been a .280/.330/.455 guy. His overall OPS is weak, especially in OBP, and the SLG hasn't come close to outweighing it.