I was on Waddle and Silvy this morning...

[ConstableRabbit]

Called in on my way to work and got through for the first time ever.

 

Silverman was hating on Murton, saying the usual runners in scoring position garbage and comparing him to Cedeno, saying neither should ever play. So I made the usual arguments (sample size, needs to play every day etc) and the second I take a breath, they cut me off. Waddle goes on about how he likes Murton and Silvy says he's a guy who argues with other players and coaches and was only good last year "when it didn't matter."

 

Just made me wonder... are they really that dumb, or do they know that acting that dumb makes the show more interesting to more people?

[Soul]

I'll tell you what they know: don't let a caller have an extended period to make arguments, and they won't be able to get a word in edge-wise.

 

That's what all radio hosts do, and it's the reason why I never call in to radio shows.

[jyoung55]

Did they respond with the first-pitch swinging GIDP from yesterday?

 

I love Murton and all but it seems as though this year his at-bats are not up to the quality they were last year. I know the playing time argument but I am not swayed by the Dusty-esque play the under-performing player because I like him argument at this point in the season.

 

I think we are going to see Murton go down if Soriano comes back before Sept. 1. Pie's playoff roster value is significantly higher than Murton's at this point.

Edited August 24, 2007 by jyoung55

[moorecg]

Did they respond with the first-pitch swinging GIDP from yesterday?

 

I love Murton and all but it seems as though this year his at-bats are not up to the quality they were last year. I know the playing time argument but I am not swayed by the Duty-esque play the slumping player because I like him argument at this point in the season.

 

I think we are going to see Murton go down if Soriano comes back before Sept. 1. Pie's playoff roster value is significantly higher than Murton's at this point.

 

Agreed. Pie's speed and defense make him a must have bench option in the playoffs...if its late in a game and you just HAVE to get a run home from second I want Pie to be the guy running...

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm now backing W&S, but Murton has really not impressed as the year has gone on. Yes, I know, he's gotten the shaft on playing time...but why does that mean when does get in it, even if just for a PH, so often he's seemingly forgetting all of the aspects of his at-bats that made so many of us be impressed with him in the first place? Are we really saying that he's such a mental midget that when not playing every day he "forgets" how to hit?

[Bruno7481]

Bruce Miles mentioned in a thread yesterday that Lou thinks Murton gets away from doing the things that make him a good hitter.

 

For someI think its convenient to blame Lou or Dusty for Murton's struggles, but its not the whole reason. The excuses start to run out at some point for everyone.

 

I never fully understood the super man love for the guy, but I do think he can be a decent player. But I'm becomining more and more convinced he's not going to hit enough to be a productive corner outfielder. He doesn't have the pwer, and if he's lost his patience that doesn''t look too promising for his future.

[pitchcs]

I have a feeling that Murton's days as a Cub are numbered.

[rawaction]

I don't understand why people don't understand why people like Matt Murton. He was the 4th most productive player on the team last year, and one of 2 (Derrek Lee) with a good approach at the plate. It was his first full year, he is under contract for cheap on a team that desperately needed some cheap production. He also put up a .911 OPS after the AS break last year, as a possible sign of things to come.

 

He hasn't been good this year, and he may never be anything more than what he has shown this year. But it makes no sense for anybody to even question what there was to like about Murton.

[jersey cubs fan]

I never fully understood the super man love for the guy, but I do think he can be a decent player.

 

Why do so many characterize it as super man love?

 

The vast majority of the pro Murton crowd thinks he can be a good, but not great, hitting LF if he plays everyday. The greatest value is that he can produce for cheap, which allows you to spend big elsewhere.

 

Murton produced in the minors, and he's produced in the majors both in 2005 and 2006. Over the second half of last year he was tremendous, 912 OPS. He also does something the Cubs as a team do not do, but need to do more of, which is accept walks. He gets on base. Going into this year, all signs were pointing up. Career OPS+ over 100, 25 years old, solid approach, $350,000 salary with no longterm committment.

 

People like guys who produce. People don't like when management wastes resources on marginal improvements over guys that produce or actually get guys who produce less than the guy they liked in the first place. People aren't putting Murton in the HOF, they were putting him in their starting lineups. The Cubs have put him on the backburner.

[ConstableRabbit]

I don't understand why people don't understand why people like Matt Murton. He was the 4th most productive player on the team last year, and one of 2 (Derrek Lee) with a good approach at the plate. It was his first full year, he is under contract for cheap on a team that desperately needed some cheap production. He also put up a .911 OPS after the AS break last year, as a possible sign of things to come.

 

Yeah, exactly. When we were out of the race!

[Sammy Sofa]

I never fully understood the super man love for the guy, but I do think he can be a decent player.

 

Why do so many characterize it as super man love?

 

The vast majority of the pro Murton crowd thinks he can be a good, but not great, hitting LF if he plays everyday. The greatest value is that he can produce for cheap, which allows you to spend big elsewhere.

 

Murton produced in the minors, and he's produced in the majors both in 2005 and 2006. Over the second half of last year he was tremendous, 912 OPS. He also does something the Cubs as a team do not do, but need to do more of, which is accept walks. He gets on base. Going into this year, all signs were pointing up. Career OPS+ over 100, 25 years old, solid approach, $350,000 salary with no longterm committment.

 

People like guys who produce. People don't like when management wastes resources on marginal improvements over guys that produce or actually get guys who produce less than the guy they liked in the first place. People aren't putting Murton in the HOF, they were putting him in their starting lineups. The Cubs have put him on the backburner.

 

OK, but then let me tie it into what I brought up...after the good things we saw, why are we seeing him look so clueless at the plate so often this year? I know he's not getting regular playing time, but is that really an excuse for a player to seemingly "forget" how to have a quality AB?

[Bruno7481]

I never fully understood the super man love for the guy, but I do think he can be a decent player.

 

Why do so many characterize it as super man love?

 

The vast majority of the pro Murton crowd thinks he can be a good, but not great, hitting LF if he plays everyday. The greatest value is that he can produce for cheap, which allows you to spend big elsewhere.

 

Murton produced in the minors, and he's produced in the majors both in 2005 and 2006. Over the second half of last year he was tremendous, 912 OPS. He also does something the Cubs as a team do not do, but need to do more of, which is accept walks. He gets on base. Going into this year, all signs were pointing up. Career OPS+ over 100, 25 years old, solid approach, $350,000 salary with no longterm committment.

 

People like guys who produce. People don't like when management wastes resources on marginal improvements over guys that produce or actually get guys who produce less than the guy they liked in the first place. People aren't putting Murton in the HOF, they were putting him in their starting lineups. The Cubs have put him on the backburner.

 

Thanks for taking the bait. It was joke, this debate is in several threads now, the "man-love" thing.

 

And he's been on the backburner due to his performance. He was great last year, but I've seen absolutely zero signs of it this year. And its not all Lou's fault.

[NewUserName]

I have a feeling that Murton's days as a Cub are numbered.

 

 

I agree. Really in retrospect he should have been traded after we signed Soriano when his trade value was the highest. Sadly he will probably be traded when his trade value is its lowest. He also may just be Dave Magadan as a RHed hitting OFer. Still think if the team was committed to being good for years to come they would have never sacrificed his playing time for the likes of Cliff Floyd. Sadly there in some sort of Cardinal induced trance that they may win a WS this year.

[CubinNY]

Bruce Miles mentioned in a thread yesterday that Lou thinks Murton gets away from doing the things that make him a good hitter.

 

For someI think its convenient to blame Lou or Dusty for Murton's struggles, but its not the whole reason. The excuses start to run out at some point for everyone.

 

Do they run out for Lou? Becuase that is an excuse too unless one believes in his infalibility.

 

It is down right stupid, yes stupi .to look at Murton's situation and form the opion that "excuses start to run out".

 

I don't feel like rehashing the details but sparing playing time is about the worst way to judge a player. Especially a palyer who has shown good production given regular playing time at every level he's played.

[Bruno7481]

Also, I think you can attribute some of his lack of production this year to the league catching up with him. Maybe teams have found a successful way to pitch him. Last year was his first opportunity at regular playing time and there wasn't much of a "book" on him. He saw some action in 2005, but only a little over 100 ABs.

 

If that is the case he is having a hard time making the necessary adjustments.

[ConstableRabbit]

For the record, I really wanted this to be about sports radio as there are already countless other threads about Murton where the exact same arguments come up.

[Bruno7481]

Bruce Miles mentioned in a thread yesterday that Lou thinks Murton gets away from doing the things that make him a good hitter.

 

For someI think its convenient to blame Lou or Dusty for Murton's struggles, but its not the whole reason. The excuses start to run out at some point for everyone.

 

Do they run out for Lou? Becuase that is an excuse too unless one believes in his infalibility.

 

It is down right stupid, yes stupi .to look at Murton's situation and form the opion that "excuses start to run out".

 

I don't feel like rehashing the details but sparing playing time is about the worst way to judge a player. Especially a palyer who has shown good production given regular playing time at every level he's played.

 

Allright, since I'm stupid I guess I shouldn't respond.

 

What role does Murton himself play? It is not all Lou's fault that he hasn't produced, that is what is stupid. He hasn't produced, playing time is possibly part of it, but not the whole reason.

[CubinNY]

Bruce Miles mentioned in a thread yesterday that Lou thinks Murton gets away from doing the things that make him a good hitter.

 

For someI think its convenient to blame Lou or Dusty for Murton's struggles, but its not the whole reason. The excuses start to run out at some point for everyone.

 

Do they run out for Lou? Becuase that is an excuse too unless one believes in his infalibility.

 

It is down right stupid, yes stupi .to look at Murton's situation and form the opion that "excuses start to run out".

 

I don't feel like rehashing the details but sparing playing time is about the worst way to judge a player. Especially a palyer who has shown good production given regular playing time at every level he's played.

 

Allright, since I'm stupid I guess I shouldn't respond.

 

What role does Murton himself play? It is not all Lou's fault that he hasn't produced, that is what is stupid. He hasn't produced, playing time is possibly part of it, but not the whole reason.

 

It's real hard to produce when your ass is on the bench. Or when this AB determines whether you get another AB.

 

The manager's job is to put his players in the best position to succeed. Does Murton have to go 2 for 4 every time he plays? When he's got consistent playing time he's produced.

 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

[jyoung55]

Bruce Miles mentioned in a thread yesterday that Lou thinks Murton gets away from doing the things that make him a good hitter.

 

For someI think its convenient to blame Lou or Dusty for Murton's struggles, but its not the whole reason. The excuses start to run out at some point for everyone.

 

Do they run out for Lou? Becuase that is an excuse too unless one believes in his infalibility.

 

It is down right stupid, yes stupi .to look at Murton's situation and form the opion that "excuses start to run out".

 

I don't feel like rehashing the details but sparing playing time is about the worst way to judge a player. Especially a palyer who has shown good production given regular playing time at every level he's played.

 

If you are going to call someone or their opinion stupid you better be darned sure your grammar and spelling are on point.

[NewUserName]

For the record, I really wanted this to be about sports radio as there are already countless other threads about Murton where the exact same arguments come up.

 

 

When I used to go to work at 5:00AM, I listened to the overnight guys on both ESPN and Sporting News. I really enjoyed it because they actually let fans get on and make arguements as long as they were being rationale. Much better than during the day when you only have 8 secs and not enough time to prove how stupid the host is being, especially when he doesnt want to hear it anyway.

[CubinNY]

Bruce Miles mentioned in a thread yesterday that Lou thinks Murton gets away from doing the things that make him a good hitter.

 

For someI think its convenient to blame Lou or Dusty for Murton's struggles, but its not the whole reason. The excuses start to run out at some point for everyone.

 

Do they run out for Lou? Becuase that is an excuse too unless one believes in his infalibility.

 

It is down right stupid, yes stupi .to look at Murton's situation and form the opion that "excuses start to run out".

 

I don't feel like rehashing the details but sparing playing time is about the worst way to judge a player. Especially a palyer who has shown good production given regular playing time at every level he's played.

 

If you are going to call someone or their opinion stupid you better be darned sure your grammar and spelling are on point.

This is a message board not English class

[jyoung55]

Bruce Miles mentioned in a thread yesterday that Lou thinks Murton gets away from doing the things that make him a good hitter.

 

For someI think its convenient to blame Lou or Dusty for Murton's struggles, but its not the whole reason. The excuses start to run out at some point for everyone.

 

Do they run out for Lou? Becuase that is an excuse too unless one believes in his infalibility.

 

It is down right stupid, yes stupi .to look at Murton's situation and form the opion that "excuses start to run out".

 

I don't feel like rehashing the details but sparing playing time is about the worst way to judge a player. Especially a palyer who has shown good production given regular playing time at every level he's played.

 

If you are going to call someone or their opinion stupid you better be darned sure your grammar and spelling are on point.

This is a message board not English class

 

waht was I tinkdg?

[Bruno7481]

Bruce Miles mentioned in a thread yesterday that Lou thinks Murton gets away from doing the things that make him a good hitter.

 

For someI think its convenient to blame Lou or Dusty for Murton's struggles, but its not the whole reason. The excuses start to run out at some point for everyone.

 

Do they run out for Lou? Becuase that is an excuse too unless one believes in his infalibility.

 

It is down right stupid, yes stupi .to look at Murton's situation and form the opion that "excuses start to run out".

 

I don't feel like rehashing the details but sparing playing time is about the worst way to judge a player. Especially a palyer who has shown good production given regular playing time at every level he's played.

 

Allright, since I'm stupid I guess I shouldn't respond.

 

What role does Murton himself play? It is not all Lou's fault that he hasn't produced, that is what is stupid. He hasn't produced, playing time is possibly part of it, but not the whole reason.

 

It's real hard to produce when your ass is on the bench. Or when this AB determines whether you get another AB.

 

The manager's job is to put his players in the best position to succeed. Does Murton have to go 2 for 4 every time he plays? When he's got consistent playing time he's produced.

 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

 

I just have a problem with the argument that none of this is Murton's fault, just Lou's/Hendry/whoever.

 

Yeah, you do have to produce when given the chance, most people have this requirement on their job, not just baseball.

[CubinNY]

Bruce Miles mentioned in a thread yesterday that Lou thinks Murton gets away from doing the things that make him a good hitter.

 

For someI think its convenient to blame Lou or Dusty for Murton's struggles, but its not the whole reason. The excuses start to run out at some point for everyone.

 

Do they run out for Lou? Becuase that is an excuse too unless one believes in his infalibility.

 

It is down right stupid, yes stupi .to look at Murton's situation and form the opion that "excuses start to run out".

 

I don't feel like rehashing the details but sparing playing time is about the worst way to judge a player. Especially a palyer who has shown good production given regular playing time at every level he's played.

 

Allright, since I'm stupid I guess I shouldn't respond.

 

What role does Murton himself play? It is not all Lou's fault that he hasn't produced, that is what is stupid. He hasn't produced, playing time is possibly part of it, but not the whole reason.

 

It's real hard to produce when your ass is on the bench. Or when this AB determines whether you get another AB.

 

The manager's job is to put his players in the best position to succeed. Does Murton have to go 2 for 4 every time he plays? When he's got consistent playing time he's produced.

 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

 

I just have a problem with the argument that none of this is Murton's fault, just Lou's/Hendry/whoever.

 

Yeah, you do have to produce when given the chance, most people have this requirement on their job, not just baseball.

 

I don't think anyone has made that argument. However, that doesn't mean that Lou cannot be criticized for his use of Murton.

 

.500 BA is a pretty high bar.

 

I still think Lou is pissed about Murton's comments to the media just before then sent him down.

[Bruno7481]

I don't think Lou is expecting him to hit .500 either, but show some patience, put togethter some good ABs, and be productive.