Jones to get more chances, Pie losing out

[Mizzou]

I don't know what the hell has been wrong with Jones all year, but I'm starting to convince myself that the best thing for this season alone might be Jones in CF against RHP.

I'm reluctantly starting to agree. Jacque is solid against RHP, no matter whether people want to admit it or not. 3-8 with 3 doubles in his last two starts. No reason to start Pie at this point.

 

Well, he went 3/8 in his last 2 starts? That's it, you've convinced me - Jacques is great against RHP and should start in CF from now on. All the thought and analysis I put into this question over the first 5 pages didn't take into account his last 8 ABs...and clearly, that's all that matters.

You don't have to take an hour and analyze the numbers for everything. Jacque has hit the ball very well in his last two starts. Pie has sucked for a few weeks. If there was a righty starting today, why would you NOT start Jacque?

[TheDude]

I don't know what the hell has been wrong with Jones all year, but I'm starting to convince myself that the best thing for this season alone might be Jones in CF against RHP.

I'm reluctantly starting to agree. Jacque is solid against RHP, no matter whether people want to admit it or not. 3-8 with 3 doubles in his last two starts. No reason to start Pie at this point.

 

The real indication that he might be turning it around are the doubles. I don't recall all of them, but yesterday's shot to the opposite field gap is exactly what you want to see from Jock.

 

I'd hate to put the Pie enthusiasm on old this year, as I really want him out there everyday to get through the growing pains, but the team simply can't afford that with the Barret trade a reality.

 

Probably the best thing for Pie right now is to go back to AAA until September and put Jones in CF. If Jones can get red hot, maybe he raises his trade value such that Hendry can get a decent hitting Catching prospect for the future.

[UK1679666180]

If Jones can get red hot, maybe he raises his trade value such that Hendry can get a decent hitting Catching prospect for the future.

 

Someone equal to, less than, or greater than Soto?

 

As far as ideal trade thought processes... This is just a hypothetical.

 

Cubs send Jones and prospect(s) (within reason) to get Winn and some cash to off-set his contract.

 

Supposedly, Winn is avail. and plays a better CF than Jones, obviously more productive than Jones this year, can hit between Soriano and Lee, but has a bad contract that could be eased up by hopefully Jones, prospect, and some cash.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If Jones can get red hot, maybe he raises his trade value such that Hendry can get a decent hitting Catching prospect for the future.

 

Someone equal to, less than, or greater than Soto?

 

As far as ideal trade thought processes... This is just a hypothetical.

 

Cubs send Jones and prospect(s) (within reason) to get Winn and some cash to off-set his contract.

 

Supposedly, Winn is avail. and plays a better CF than Jones, obviously more productive than Jones this year, can hit between Soriano and Lee, but has a bad contract that could be eased up by hopefully Jones, prospect, and some cash.

 

But Winn hasn't even been all that good this year(.281/.333/.403) and we'd be paying him 8 million next year and 8.25 million in '09(plus he has a 10 team no-trade clause those years). I don't see how that really improves the situation. If you're taking on someone playing as marginally as Winn, you might as well let Pie or Jones try to work out of it.

[Tracer Bullet]

The Cubs made it known that Pie is as untouchable as it gets.

 

 

Of course they have, they need a few more years to completely destroy his development and confidence so they can deal him for a couple crappy A-ballers.

 

 

Also, this whole situation makes me wonder if the veteran problem we had under Dusty was really Dusty's fault or if he was just following orders. We got a new manager and the same things are happening. Of course it's quite possible it was Dusty's fault and Lou is just as bad as Dusty, but I have to wonder if it's almost all on Hendry instead.

 

The same things are not happening. How can you even suggest this?? Marmol is closing (under dusty it would be Howry or Eyre, because they're the highest paid/vettiest). Theriot and Fontenot have gotten extended looks while Izturis rides the pine. Pie has started over Jones for quite some time now. I know many of these are obvious, but they wouldn't have been to Dusty.

 

Sorry, not even close.

 

Actually, Howry is closing. Marmol is pitching important innings, but he has 1 save from over a week ago. Howry has the last 3 save chances and picked up a W pitching in a tie game.

 

Theriot got a decent amount of starts, had some struggles, and started getting benched frequently. Murton didn't last long and Pie's had 3 weeks of starts before getting spot starts. Better than Dusty? Maybe, hard to say, but the young kids aren't really getting time to develop (and it's not like they being replaced by great veterans, either).

[Tracer Bullet]

I don't know what the hell has been wrong with Jones all year, but I'm starting to convince myself that the best thing for this season alone might be Jones in CF against RHP.

I'm reluctantly starting to agree. Jacque is solid against RHP, no matter whether people want to admit it or not. 3-8 with 3 doubles in his last two starts. No reason to start Pie at this point.

 

Well, he went 3/8 in his last 2 starts? That's it, you've convinced me - Jacques is great against RHP and should start in CF from now on. All the thought and analysis I put into this question over the first 5 pages didn't take into account his last 8 ABs...and clearly, that's all that matters.

You don't have to take an hour and analyze the numbers for everything. Jacque has hit the ball very well in his last two starts. Pie has sucked for a few weeks. If there was a righty starting today, why would you NOT start Jacque?

 

Have you read this thread? b/c I'm not going to retype or cut & paste the posts (mine and others).

[Warren Brusstar]

I don't know what the hell has been wrong with Jones all year, but I'm starting to convince myself that the best thing for this season alone might be Jones in CF against RHP.

I'm reluctantly starting to agree. Jacque is solid against RHP, no matter whether people want to admit it or not. 3-8 with 3 doubles in his last two starts. No reason to start Pie at this point.

 

Well, he went 3/8 in his last 2 starts? That's it, you've convinced me - Jacques is great against RHP and should start in CF from now on. All the thought and analysis I put into this question over the first 5 pages didn't take into account his last 8 ABs...and clearly, that's all that matters.

 

So you care about sample size all of a sudden?

[Mizzou]

I don't know what the hell has been wrong with Jones all year, but I'm starting to convince myself that the best thing for this season alone might be Jones in CF against RHP.

I'm reluctantly starting to agree. Jacque is solid against RHP, no matter whether people want to admit it or not. 3-8 with 3 doubles in his last two starts. No reason to start Pie at this point.

 

Well, he went 3/8 in his last 2 starts? That's it, you've convinced me - Jacques is great against RHP and should start in CF from now on. All the thought and analysis I put into this question over the first 5 pages didn't take into account his last 8 ABs...and clearly, that's all that matters.

You don't have to take an hour and analyze the numbers for everything. Jacque has hit the ball very well in his last two starts. Pie has sucked for a few weeks. If there was a righty starting today, why would you NOT start Jacque?

 

Have you read this thread? b/c I'm not going to retype or cut & paste the posts (mine and others).

I'm not going to search through 8 pages to find your reasoning for not wanting to go with the hot hand over the guy who has been awful for several weeks.

[turn2]

CF, like catcher, is a defensive oriented position. That is, its more important to have a good defensive CF who is struggling than some RF who miight have better offense that is stuck out there. Jacque Jones is no CF.

 

BTW, the only reason Jones is playing suddenly is that Hendry has given up on trying to move him. His salary is a problem. And so since Hendry cant even give him away, the only way to move him is to let him play and hell hopefully drive up some trade value since it couldnt be any lower than what it has been recently.

[UK1679666180]

If Jones can get red hot, maybe he raises his trade value such that Hendry can get a decent hitting Catching prospect for the future.

 

Someone equal to, less than, or greater than Soto?

 

As far as ideal trade thought processes... This is just a hypothetical.

 

Cubs send Jones and prospect(s) (within reason) to get Winn and some cash to off-set his contract.

 

Supposedly, Winn is avail. and plays a better CF than Jones, obviously more productive than Jones this year, can hit between Soriano and Lee, but has a bad contract that could be eased up by hopefully Jones, prospect, and some cash.

 

But Winn hasn't even been all that good this year(.281/.333/.403) and we'd be paying him 8 million next year and 8.25 million in '09(plus he has a 10 team no-trade clause those years). I don't see how that really improves the situation. If you're taking on someone playing as marginally as Winn, you might as well let Pie or Jones try to work out of it.

 

There's a bigger upside to Winn in CF for this year than Jones, Pie, or Pagan.

 

Beyond the salary difference of Jones, there would have to be some salary taken by SF as well. Enough to where his '09 salary becomes doable.

[turn2]

If Jones can get red hot, maybe he raises his trade value such that Hendry can get a decent hitting Catching prospect for the future.

 

Someone equal to, less than, or greater than Soto?

 

As far as ideal trade thought processes... This is just a hypothetical.

 

Cubs send Jones and prospect(s) (within reason) to get Winn and some cash to off-set his contract.

 

Supposedly, Winn is avail. and plays a better CF than Jones, obviously more productive than Jones this year, can hit between Soriano and Lee, but has a bad contract that could be eased up by hopefully Jones, prospect, and some cash.

 

But Winn hasn't even been all that good this year(.281/.333/.403) and we'd be paying him 8 million next year and 8.25 million in '09(plus he has a 10 team no-trade clause those years). I don't see how that really improves the situation. If you're taking on someone playing as marginally as Winn, you might as well let Pie or Jones try to work out of it.

 

There's a bigger upside to Winn in CF for this year than Jones, Pie, or Pagan.

 

Beyond the salary difference of Jones, there would have to be some salary taken by SF as well. Enough to where his '09 salary becomes doable.

 

No, I would say there is greater upside with Pie. Pie is faster and better defensively plus in his two stints in Iowa, he had a high average both times. So he can hit and probably will but he needs to make adjustments and fight through his slump.

[UK1679666180]

Ideally, yes Pie would be given a shot and allowed to keep from here on out.

 

Unfort. he's now backing up Pagan and Jones in CF. If Pagan and Jones are your platooning starting CF'ers, you need a CF'er if this team expects to compete for the post-season.

[Wolverineman]

The same things are not happening. How can you even suggest this?? Marmol is closing (under dusty it would be Howry or Eyre, because they're the highest paid/vettiest). Theriot and Fontenot have gotten extended looks while Izturis rides the pine. Pie has started over Jones for quite some time now. I know many of these are obvious, but they wouldn't have been to Dusty.

 

Sorry, not even close.

 

 

GRCubsfan mentioned a lot of the things I was going to. Howry is closing, etc. etc.

 

I think it's a very comparable situation because both managers seem to have the same mentality. They'll talk up and play a young position player as long as he HITS HITS HITS HITS HITS and the minute he stops hitting, he's benched. The only big difference is Lou seems to give them an extra couple games before benching than Dusty did. Soon as Fontenot struggles for a week or so, we'll see Izturis playing more again. I don't really mind it with Theriot/Fontenot, they're both no-upside utility infielders and riding them while they're hot isn't a bad idea. But when you have players with considerable upside that need time against both lefties AND righties, benching them after struggling for a short time is very short sighted and detrimental for the team, especially when they're being replaced by the likes of Jones and Pagan.

 

 

So is it just that they're both very similar managers, or is it a problem coming from Hendry and the managers are just following his orders? I have to wonder the more Lou reminds me of Dusty.

[Tracer Bullet]

I don't know what the hell has been wrong with Jones all year, but I'm starting to convince myself that the best thing for this season alone might be Jones in CF against RHP.

I'm reluctantly starting to agree. Jacque is solid against RHP, no matter whether people want to admit it or not. 3-8 with 3 doubles in his last two starts. No reason to start Pie at this point.

 

Well, he went 3/8 in his last 2 starts? That's it, you've convinced me - Jacques is great against RHP and should start in CF from now on. All the thought and analysis I put into this question over the first 5 pages didn't take into account his last 8 ABs...and clearly, that's all that matters.

You don't have to take an hour and analyze the numbers for everything. Jacque has hit the ball very well in his last two starts. Pie has sucked for a few weeks. If there was a righty starting today, why would you NOT start Jacque?

 

Have you read this thread? b/c I'm not going to retype or cut & paste the posts (mine and others).

I'm not going to search through 8 pages to find your reasoning for not wanting to go with the hot hand over the guy who has been awful for several weeks.

 

Well, glad you're part of the discussion. Always nice to have people contribute that can't be bothered to read others' posts.

[Tracer Bullet]

I don't know what the hell has been wrong with Jones all year, but I'm starting to convince myself that the best thing for this season alone might be Jones in CF against RHP.

I'm reluctantly starting to agree. Jacque is solid against RHP, no matter whether people want to admit it or not. 3-8 with 3 doubles in his last two starts. No reason to start Pie at this point.

 

Well, he went 3/8 in his last 2 starts? That's it, you've convinced me - Jacques is great against RHP and should start in CF from now on. All the thought and analysis I put into this question over the first 5 pages didn't take into account his last 8 ABs...and clearly, that's all that matters.

 

So you care about sample size all of a sudden?

 

Are you really this dense? I've been looking at much more than the past 3 months and basing my argument on that. You're the one who says I'm putting all this emphasis on his last 200 PAs. I've said that 185 ABs isn't a great sample, but that past on his 3200 ABs against RHP, it's pretty clear that Jones can range from bad to great and it's not really close to the normal bell curve you'd expect with players improving through their peak and then coming back down. He's good one year, bad the next, great the next, etc.

 

So if his performance year-year is random, you can't just look at his overall #s and expect he's going to match them, esp when he's been terrible for 3 months. Is he likely to improve some - yes, I've already said I don't think he'll have an OPS of .634 against RHP all year. But is it likely to jump 200 points to match his career #s? I don't think that's likely. And 3 doubles in 8 ABs isn't going to change my mind. It's a nice couple of games, but it doesn't mean much in predicting his performance for the next 3 months.

[Flames24Rulz]

I'm a little late to this thread but there's really no point in having Felix rot on the bench with the big league team when he can be getting AB's to try to fix his swing in Iowa.

[CubColtPacer]

I'm a little late to this thread but there's really no point in having Felix rot on the bench with the big league team when he can be getting AB's to try to fix his swing in Iowa.

 

I don't think that will be for long. It seems to me pretty likely at this point that when Petrick is available to come back that Pie will be the position player demoted in order to get back to 12 pitchers.

[Keener98]

I'm a little late to this thread but there's really no point in having Felix rot on the bench with the big league team when he can be getting AB's to try to fix his swing in Iowa.

 

I don't think that will be for long. It seems to me pretty likely at this point that when Petrick is available to come back that Pie will be the position player demoted in order to get back to 12 pitchers.

 

But, but Pie is here to stay! Once again the Cubs organization will say one thing, and do the complete opposite. color me not surprised.

[turn2]

I'm a little late to this thread but there's really no point in having Felix rot on the bench with the big league team when he can be getting AB's to try to fix his swing in Iowa.

 

I don't think that will be for long. It seems to me pretty likely at this point that when Petrick is available to come back that Pie will be the position player demoted in order to get back to 12 pitchers.

 

But, but Pie is here to stay! Once again the Cubs organization will say one thing, and do the complete opposite. color me not surprised.

 

This is driven by the fact that the Jones trade was sh*t canned and Hendry can no longer give Jones away. Sam Zell is a new variable that they now have to consider and getting rid of Jones is probably no longer as possible as it once was.

[Mizzou]

I don't know what the hell has been wrong with Jones all year, but I'm starting to convince myself that the best thing for this season alone might be Jones in CF against RHP.

I'm reluctantly starting to agree. Jacque is solid against RHP, no matter whether people want to admit it or not. 3-8 with 3 doubles in his last two starts. No reason to start Pie at this point.

 

Well, he went 3/8 in his last 2 starts? That's it, you've convinced me - Jacques is great against RHP and should start in CF from now on. All the thought and analysis I put into this question over the first 5 pages didn't take into account his last 8 ABs...and clearly, that's all that matters.

You don't have to take an hour and analyze the numbers for everything. Jacque has hit the ball very well in his last two starts. Pie has sucked for a few weeks. If there was a righty starting today, why would you NOT start Jacque?

 

Have you read this thread? b/c I'm not going to retype or cut & paste the posts (mine and others).

I'm not going to search through 8 pages to find your reasoning for not wanting to go with the hot hand over the guy who has been awful for several weeks.

 

Well, glad you're part of the discussion. Always nice to have people contribute that can't be bothered to read others' posts.

Rather than taking the time to twice tell me that you're not going to re-type your reasoning that you came up with who knows how many posts ago, I imagine that you could've simply stated your reasoning in the same amount of time. But whatever, if it's too bothersome to formulate a response of more than two sentences, then that's your problem.

[Tracer Bullet]

I don't know what the hell has been wrong with Jones all year, but I'm starting to convince myself that the best thing for this season alone might be Jones in CF against RHP.

I'm reluctantly starting to agree. Jacque is solid against RHP, no matter whether people want to admit it or not. 3-8 with 3 doubles in his last two starts. No reason to start Pie at this point.

 

Well, he went 3/8 in his last 2 starts? That's it, you've convinced me - Jacques is great against RHP and should start in CF from now on. All the thought and analysis I put into this question over the first 5 pages didn't take into account his last 8 ABs...and clearly, that's all that matters.

You don't have to take an hour and analyze the numbers for everything. Jacque has hit the ball very well in his last two starts. Pie has sucked for a few weeks. If there was a righty starting today, why would you NOT start Jacque?

 

Have you read this thread? b/c I'm not going to retype or cut & paste the posts (mine and others).

I'm not going to search through 8 pages to find your reasoning for not wanting to go with the hot hand over the guy who has been awful for several weeks.

 

Well, glad you're part of the discussion. Always nice to have people contribute that can't be bothered to read others' posts.

Rather than taking the time to twice tell me that you're not going to re-type your reasoning that you came up with who knows how many posts ago, I imagine that you could've simply stated your reasoning in the same amount of time. But whatever, if it's too bothersome to formulate a response of more than two sentences, then that's your problem.

 

A - You're apparently not much for reading posts, but if you look about 6 posts up, you'll see a brief summary of my argument in one of my responses to WB.

 

B - Are you really mocking me for not wanting to take the time to retype arguments I've already made several times in this thread when the sole reason you want them retyped is b/c you're too lazy to skim through a few pages to find them. Seriously? That's incredible.

[Keener98]

I'm a little late to this thread but there's really no point in having Felix rot on the bench with the big league team when he can be getting AB's to try to fix his swing in Iowa.

 

I don't think that will be for long. It seems to me pretty likely at this point that when Petrick is available to come back that Pie will be the position player demoted in order to get back to 12 pitchers.

 

But, but Pie is here to stay! Once again the Cubs organization will say one thing, and do the complete opposite. color me not surprised.

 

This is driven by the fact that the Jones trade was sh*t canned and Hendry can no longer give Jones away. Sam Zell is a new variable that they now have to consider and getting rid of Jones is probably no longer as possible as it once was.

 

Who cares if the Jones trade was nixed. The odds of Jones improving greatly are very slim, where as Pie is a kid and is going to struggle, but he has made the adjustments at every single level he has played. But this team wont give Pie the chance to make the adjustment, and continue to sit him on the bench"working on his swing". Let the kid play and see if he can make the adjustments, or send him down to let him play.

[Warren Brusstar]

I don't know what the hell has been wrong with Jones all year, but I'm starting to convince myself that the best thing for this season alone might be Jones in CF against RHP.

I'm reluctantly starting to agree. Jacque is solid against RHP, no matter whether people want to admit it or not. 3-8 with 3 doubles in his last two starts. No reason to start Pie at this point.

 

Well, he went 3/8 in his last 2 starts? That's it, you've convinced me - Jacques is great against RHP and should start in CF from now on. All the thought and analysis I put into this question over the first 5 pages didn't take into account his last 8 ABs...and clearly, that's all that matters.

 

So you care about sample size all of a sudden?

 

Are you really this dense? I've been looking at much more than the past 3 months and basing my argument on that. You're the one who says I'm putting all this emphasis on his last 200 PAs. I've said that 185 ABs isn't a great sample, but that past on his 3200 ABs against RHP, it's pretty clear that Jones can range from bad to great and it's not really close to the normal bell curve you'd expect with players improving through their peak and then coming back down. He's good one year, bad the next, great the next, etc.

 

So if his performance year-year is random, you can't just look at his overall #s and expect he's going to match them, esp when he's been terrible for 3 months. Is he likely to improve some - yes, I've already said I don't think he'll have an OPS of .634 against RHP all year. But is it likely to jump 200 points to match his career #s? I don't think that's likely. And 3 doubles in 8 ABs isn't going to change my mind. It's a nice couple of games, but it doesn't mean much in predicting his performance for the next 3 months.

 

1. Thanks for the personal attack.

 

2. Are *you* really this dense? I've posted about a half dozen times in this thread that Jones has never once had a season with an OPS v. RHP of less than .775. Never.

 

In 2007, there are 27 center-fielders that are currently on pace to qualify for the batting title. 11 have an OPS above .775, 16 have an OPS below .775.

 

In 2006, of the qualifying center-fielders, 13 were above .775, 10 were below

 

In 2005, 10 were above .775, 11 were below

 

In Jacque Jones' very worst full season, he hit at a league-average level for center-fielders against RHP. He's never been bad in his career v. RHP. And repeating the same wrong argument over and over and over again doesn't make you right.

 

3. I keep insisting that you're placing too much emphasis on his first 200 plate appearances this year because there's absolutely no other reason to conclude that a guy who posted almost a .900 OPS v. RHP last year is somehow "unlikely" to match his career OPS of .825 against them, especially when he's only been under .800 twice.

[Amazing_Grace]

I was going to start my own thread with this thought, but it seems like it will fit better into this one soo...

 

Is anyone else worried that the Cubs are pulling the same crap with Pie that they did with Patterson, yo-yoing the guy up and down hoping he'll produce and pulling him for someone that gives you better numbers in the short-term but aren't worth crap over the long-term (Jones, Pagan). You would think the Cubs learned their lesson with CPatt, but apparently not. They haven't figured out that 24 year olds that have issues with plate discipline don't immediately translate into decent major leaguers. They should have known very well this was what would happen with Pie, and if they weren't willing to live with that, then he should have stayed at AAA until his IsoD was over .075 for a couple hundred ABs. If the Cubs are going to go through this madness again, they should trade Pie now before all his value is shot.

[Tracer Bullet]

So you care about sample size all of a sudden?

 

Are you really this dense? I've been looking at much more than the past 3 months and basing my argument on that. You're the one who says I'm putting all this emphasis on his last 200 PAs. I've said that 185 ABs isn't a great sample, but that past on his 3200 ABs against RHP, it's pretty clear that Jones can range from bad to great and it's not really close to the normal bell curve you'd expect with players improving through their peak and then coming back down. He's good one year, bad the next, great the next, etc.

 

So if his performance year-year is random, you can't just look at his overall #s and expect he's going to match them, esp when he's been terrible for 3 months. Is he likely to improve some - yes, I've already said I don't think he'll have an OPS of .634 against RHP all year. But is it likely to jump 200 points to match his career #s? I don't think that's likely. And 3 doubles in 8 ABs isn't going to change my mind. It's a nice couple of games, but it doesn't mean much in predicting his performance for the next 3 months.

 

1. Thanks for the personal attack.

 

2. Are *you* really this dense? I've posted about a half dozen times in this thread that Jones has never once had a season with an OPS v. RHP of less than .775. Never.

 

In 2007, there are 27 center-fielders that are currently on pace to qualify for the batting title. 11 have an OPS above .775, 16 have an OPS below .775.

 

In 2006, of the qualifying center-fielders, 13 were above .775, 10 were below

 

In 2005, 10 were above .775, 11 were below

 

In Jacque Jones' very worst full season, he hit at a league-average level for center-fielders against RHP. He's never been bad in his career v. RHP. And repeating the same wrong argument over and over and over again doesn't make you right.

 

3. I keep insisting that you're placing too much emphasis on his first 200 plate appearances this year because there's absolutely no other reason to conclude that a guy who posted almost a .900 OPS v. RHP last year is somehow "unlikely" to match his career OPS of .825 against them, especially when he's only been under .800 twice.

 

1. It wasn't a personal attack, it was a question. And a fair one, I think.

 

2. You like repeating his OPS against RHP, but ignoring the fact that he has had horrible OBP's several times. And no, when you're OBP is .310, SLG enough to get your OPS near .800 does not make it ok. You sucked that year. I think the bolded part is exactly right and I'm glad you finally realized it. Reciting his worst OPS against RHP as if it were the final word on whether he sucked in a given year doesn't make it right.

 

3. Well, his OPS against RHP last year was about 60 points or so about his career average. His OPS against RHP in 3 months this season is 200 points below is career average. Is 200 PAs a big sample? Not really. But it does have some relevance to predicting immediate future performance (unlike 8 ABs, which has near 0 relevance). That fact, coupled with the fact that he's followed good years with bad years in the past leads me to conclude that there's a good chance he won't have an OPS of .825 against RHP in the 2nd half.

 

It's apparent that we disagree and neither of us is going to convince the other, I just don't want you to mis-characterize my arguments (i.e., claim that I'm relying solely on this year's #s to predict his 2nd half #s).