The Fight...Part #3

[Tracer Bullet]

They've progressed to fighting other teams now.

 

I don't have a problem with what Lee did, it's heat of the moment from a pitch at his head.

 

Of course if it was on purpose, hit him in the rear not the head.

 

I agree with this. I don't like Lee punching people because the suspension will hurt us. But, it was a heat of the moment thing. It's completely understandable.

 

I agree. And if Young said the wrong thing (whether bad profanity or that it was intentional), all the more reason to cut Lee some slack.

 

FWIW - when I was watching it, I could have sworn the first thing Lee said as he walked up the line was "Was that intentional" (or something very close to that). Young said something then Lee kind of keeps walking and suddenly turns with the big "WHA?!?" and comes to him. I assumed Young told him he should have known it was coming or that's what you get or something like that.

 

So if Lee thought it was intentional (not just being hit, but also coming at his head), I'd be pissed if he didn't come out swinging. It's not going to cost him that many games and it'll only cost us a few wins max. Bad - yes, but you have to protect yourself. What bugs me is that Lee didn't just tackle him. It'd be more effective (those were some weak swings by both guys) and probably less punishment b/c punches tend to be viewed as bigger offenses.

[anabiono]

i really don't think it is going to hurt this team at all...they have been doing just fine without simara...it will just make them stronger

[mspcanes1]

They've progressed to fighting other teams now.

 

I don't have a problem with what Lee did, it's heat of the moment from a pitch at his head.

 

Of course if it was on purpose, hit him in the rear not the head.

 

I agree with this. I don't like Lee punching people because the suspension will hurt us. But, it was a heat of the moment thing. It's completely understandable.

 

I agree. And if Young said the wrong thing (whether bad profanity or that it was intentional), all the more reason to cut Lee some slack.

 

FWIW - when I was watching it, I could have sworn the first thing Lee said as he walked up the line was "Was that intentional" (or something very close to that). Young said something then Lee kind of keeps walking and suddenly turns with the big "WHA?!?" and comes to him. I assumed Young told him he should have known it was coming or that's what you get or something like that.

 

So if Lee thought it was intentional (not just being hit, but also coming at his head), I'd be pissed if he didn't come out swinging. It's not going to cost him that many games and it'll only cost us a few wins max. Bad - yes, but you have to protect yourself. What bugs me is that Lee didn't just tackle him. It'd be more effective (those were some weak swings by both guys) and probably less punishment b/c punches tend to be viewed as bigger offenses.

 

lee said clear as day "that one got away from u?"

 

young responded "what?"

 

lee said "that one got away from u right?"

 

we didn't see young's response, but that's when lee said "what?" and turned back towards young.

 

lee gave him two shots to get out of it and clearly whatever young said wasn't cool. lee said afterwards he was looking to hear the right words and young didn't say them. lee's gotta defend himself

[NomarSammy]

i don't care what young said, lee shouldn't have done that. he's supposed to be a leader on this team and now he's going to cost them chances at wins. boneheaded to the max

 

Oh come on dude!! Have you ever played competative sports--ever been part of a team. He did more to be a leader by showing his heart--and by the way, I think everyone on the Cubs team was so hot because it was him--and that shows you leadership. Will the suspesion suck--yes, but that i not what a leader should be thinking about.

 

And no matter what--a guy just threw a 90 mph fastball at his head and then mouthed off (I dont know what Yound said, but anything short of my bad--is mouthing off in that situation.

 

You need to check out a great song by Kenny Rogers--it is called "Coward of the COunty" It might teach you a lesson about life

[chuckywang]

While funny, Z wasn't whipping anyone with his belt. He said in the postgame press conference that he had been changing his uniform, like he typically does every three innings, and was in the process of getting dressed when he ran out.

 

Is that a superstition or does he sweat like a waterfall?

[RichHillIsABeast]

They've progressed to fighting other teams now.

 

I don't have a problem with what Lee did, it's heat of the moment from a pitch at his head.

 

Of course if it was on purpose, hit him in the rear not the head.

 

I agree with this. I don't like Lee punching people because the suspension will hurt us. But, it was a heat of the moment thing. It's completely understandable.

 

I agree. And if Young said the wrong thing (whether bad profanity or that it was intentional), all the more reason to cut Lee some slack.

 

FWIW - when I was watching it, I could have sworn the first thing Lee said as he walked up the line was "Was that intentional" (or something very close to that). Young said something then Lee kind of keeps walking and suddenly turns with the big "WHA?!?" and comes to him. I assumed Young told him he should have known it was coming or that's what you get or something like that.

 

So if Lee thought it was intentional (not just being hit, but also coming at his head), I'd be pissed if he didn't come out swinging. It's not going to cost him that many games and it'll only cost us a few wins max. Bad - yes, but you have to protect yourself. What bugs me is that Lee didn't just tackle him. It'd be more effective (those were some weak swings by both guys) and probably less punishment b/c punches tend to be viewed as bigger offenses.

 

Tackling someone in a baseball scrum is just plain dumb. You're going to get spiked at the bottom of the pile. Last year Mabry was just trying to break up a scrub and ended up hurt for the rest of the season (back and rib problems).

 

I don't approve of what DLee did. You hold back, make Z go back out and pitch and when Z is looking to exit the game, you have him plunk a pitcher or their best player with a 95+ mph heater between the shoulder blades.

 

Dumb move on DLee's part. Completely forgivable, but dumb.

[UK1679666180]

You never approve of a player being the 1st to throw punches, but understand why it happened and that when is all said and done, he prob. wishes he didn't either.

 

Throwing between the shoulder blades is about as dumb as throwing at the head. It is pretty common to miss 6 inches from the target, which 6 inches up is the neck & head.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

You never approve of a player being the 1st to throw punches, but understand why it happened and that when is all said and done, he prob. wishes he didn't either.

 

Throwing between the shoulder blades is about as dumb as throwing at the head. It is pretty common to miss 6 inches from the target, which 6 inches up is the neck & head.

 

I always heard that the general rule was that if you were going to bean someone intentionally to prove a point, you go below the shoulders and above the knees. It's sad that there actually is a rule of thumb on this, but every pitcher I've heard claims it to be true.

[UK1679666180]

You never approve of a player being the 1st to throw punches, but understand why it happened and that when is all said and done, he prob. wishes he didn't either.

 

Throwing between the shoulder blades is about as dumb as throwing at the head. It is pretty common to miss 6 inches from the target, which 6 inches up is the neck & head.

 

I always heard that the general rule was that if you were going to bean someone intentionally to prove a point, you go below the shoulders and above the knees. It's sad that there actually is a rule of thumb on this, but every pitcher I've heard claims it to be true.

 

Aim for their ass.

[brinoch]

If you want to send a message to a player or team, you don't throw at his head. You throw at his butt. The goal isn't to injure or kill the guy, it's to let them know that you and your team are unhappy with their actions.

 

Young's an ass.

[Cubfanintheknow]

Young is a pud simply because the Pads had a beef with soriano, not Lee.

 

 

It would be like me saying that Vance the Cub fan pissed me off so I'm going to kick CT's ass.

 

If Young makes that pitch at Soriano's head, he knows he's kicked out for sure and will probably have to sit by a phone awaiting a suspension call from Bud Selig. Especially in light of Jake Peavy's comments.

 

But by throwing at Lee, Young has a chance to get away with it. If he just shuts his yap instead of jawing with Lee, he probably stays in the game with a warning issued to both benches (like what should have happened with Ted Lilly a week earlier).

 

That's why he threw at Lee.

[98navigator]

I hope that Lee's actions after the initial punches will help him out as well. He gets pushed away from Young, and then Lee starts just walking around for a few seconds before a bunch of teammates tackle him. You can tell Lee wasn't interested in fighting anybody but Young, and he wasn't trying all that hard to get back to him either after the initial swings. That should hopefully keep the suspension from being too large.

 

I'm not sure that's true. I think Lee wanted to get at Young but, in watching the replay several times, I think he saw a Padres player/or coach running in at him and attempted to swerve to avoid him but the guy grabbed Lee from behind then Jacque and Barrett jumped on the guy's back and the pile went down...

 

I don't think it's anything that will cost him extra time but I think that's what happened.

 

I think that guy was Jake Peavy. I'd have to check the replay again though to be sure. Peavy was ejected, so it'd make sense.

 

Tribune

 

Cubs batting coach Gerald Perry said he was "shocked" that he was ejected from Saturday's game after trying to pull Padres pitcher Jake Peavy off Derrek Lee. Perry said the umpires said he was being overly "aggressive;" he said he was trying to be a peacemaker.

 

"I had no idea why," Perry said. "I was trying to break up the fight. Turns out I got kicked out. I wasn't going to go back on the field and argue. I didn't do anything. I didn't throw a punch."

 

Peavy declined to talk afterward.

[BigbadB]

I can't believe anyone would be upset with Lee. A guy is messing with his livelihood. He needs to send a message.

 

If you want to get upset with someone, get upset with Soriano. I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's immature and just plain stupid to show up a pitcher after hitting a home run.

 

It was Soriano's actions that caused the intentional beaning of Lee. And this is not the first time benches have cleared over some guy standing there admiring his home run.

 

The thing that torques me about standing there admiring a home run is that anyone in a major league uniform (except maybe Juan Pierre) can actually hit a home run. Home runs are hit in just about every game. Sometimes many home runs are hit per game. Sure, there fun. But, what's the point of standing there admiring it.

 

Should Mike Fontenot stand there and admire his home runs? If not, why should Soriano stand there and watch his (or should I saw trot backwards, which is basically the same thing). Is Soriano's home run that much more special because he makes about 18m a year more than Fontenot?

 

Fact: Standing there watching your home run is about the biggest insult you can hand to the opposing pitcher on the mound. As long as you don't mind the retaliation that comes with insulting the pitcher, then I suppose one should continue showing their ass to the opposing pitcher.

 

But, in this case, Soriano's actions ended up getting Lee a suspension. I hope he thinks it was worth it.

 

Rewind. Soriano hits his home run and runs the bases like a mature and professional baseball player. Fast forward. Derek Lee maybe gets the game winning hit in today's game, and is not at risk of missing future games because of one his own teammates actions.

[cubfan1955]

Given that Lee might have been justified it's going to hurt the Cubs a lot more than the Padres as the Cubs will lose their best hitter for probably 4-7 games. The Padres, at the most, will just have to give Young an extra day or two of rest. The system is not fair the way it is setup. If the hitter has to miss 4 games than a starting pitcher should miss 4 starts.

[98navigator]

Young is a pud simply because the Pads had a beef with soriano, not Lee.

 

 

It would be like me saying that Vance the Cub fan pissed me off so I'm going to kick CT's ass.

 

If Young makes that pitch at Soriano's head, he knows he's kicked out for sure and will probably have to sit by a phone awaiting a suspension call from Bud Selig. Especially in light of Jake Peavy's comments.

 

But by throwing at Lee, Young has a chance to get away with it. If he just shuts his yap instead of jawing with Lee, he probably stays in the game with a warning issued to both benches (like what should have happened with Ted Lilly a week earlier).

 

That's why he threw at Lee.

 

Actually, throwing at DLee (and not Soriano) is exactly in line with what Peavy said. He was advocating hitting one of Sori's teammates so that the guy would go back and tell him to run the bases:

 

On Friday, Peavy and Padres left-hander David Wells had criticized Soriano for not "respecting the game" with his moonwalk.

 

"I didn't appreciate that," Peavy said. "Just play the game. They pay him $136 million to hit home runs. They don't pay him to be a circus act on the field. If I think a player shows me up like that, I like the next guy to take one in the stinking ribs. That way, his teammate will let him know about it, [and he'll] tell him, 'Hey, you'd better run the bases.'

[BigbadB]

Given that Lee might have been justified it's going to hurt the Cubs a lot more than the Padres as the Cubs will lose their best hitter for probably 4-7 games. The Padres, at the most, will just have to give Young an extra day or two of rest. The system is not fair the way it is setup. If the hitter has to miss 4 games than a starting pitcher should miss 4 starts.

 

Agreed. Since pitcher's are basically every 5th day players, they should get 5 day suspensions for each 1 day an everyday player receives.

 

Might even make a guy think twice about throwing at someone else's head.

[BigbadB]

"I didn't appreciate that," Peavy said. "Just play the game. They pay him $136 million to hit home runs. They don't pay him to be a circus act on the field. If I think a player shows me up like that, I like the next guy to take one in the stinking ribs. That way, his teammate will let him know about it, [and he'll] tell him, 'Hey, you'd better run the bases.'

 

And Peavy isn't alone in his belief. Most pitchers don't like to be shown up.

[TruffleShuffle]

they don't pay fatty wells to stand there and bitch to the ump 10 times a game either

[mspcanes1]

I hope that Lee's actions after the initial punches will help him out as well. He gets pushed away from Young, and then Lee starts just walking around for a few seconds before a bunch of teammates tackle him. You can tell Lee wasn't interested in fighting anybody but Young, and he wasn't trying all that hard to get back to him either after the initial swings. That should hopefully keep the suspension from being too large.

 

I'm not sure that's true. I think Lee wanted to get at Young but, in watching the replay several times, I think he saw a Padres player/or coach running in at him and attempted to swerve to avoid him but the guy grabbed Lee from behind then Jacque and Barrett jumped on the guy's back and the pile went down...

 

I don't think it's anything that will cost him extra time but I think that's what happened.

 

I think that guy was Jake Peavy. I'd have to check the replay again though to be sure. Peavy was ejected, so it'd make sense.

 

Tribune

 

Cubs batting coach Gerald Perry said he was "shocked" that he was ejected from Saturday's game after trying to pull Padres pitcher Jake Peavy off Derrek Lee. Perry said the umpires said he was being overly "aggressive;" he said he was trying to be a peacemaker.

 

"I had no idea why," Perry said. "I was trying to break up the fight. Turns out I got kicked out. I wasn't going to go back on the field and argue. I didn't do anything. I didn't throw a punch."

 

Peavy declined to talk afterward.

 

watch the replay...it's awesome what perry does. he throws peavy in a wicked rear naked choke and takes him to the ground. nastiest maneuver of the whole fight.

[BigbadB]

they don't pay fatty wells to stand there and bitch to the ump 10 times a game either

 

No, they don't. But I watched that game, and each time he bitched, it was on a pitch I would have called a strike. In fact, the first one that Wells eventually had a cow over, I was absolutely shocked the umpire called the pitch a ball.

 

Nah, the Cubs have never had a pitcher complain about the strike zone.

 

But, standing there admiring a home run is not comparable to being upset with the umpire. A better comparison would be if the pitcher walked back to the dugout with the guy he just struck out and asked him how he liked that last pitch.

[Cubfanintheknow]

I can't believe anyone would be upset with Lee. A guy is messing with his livelihood. He needs to send a message.

 

If you want to get upset with someone, get upset with Soriano. I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's immature and just plain stupid to show up a pitcher after hitting a home run.

 

It was Soriano's actions that caused the intentional beaning of Lee. And this is not the first time benches have cleared over some guy standing there admiring his home run.

 

The thing that torques me about standing there admiring a home run is that anyone in a major league uniform (except maybe Juan Pierre) can actually hit a home run. Home runs are hit in just about every game. Sometimes many home runs are hit per game. Sure, there fun. But, what's the point of standing there admiring it.

 

Should Mike Fontenot stand there and admire his home runs? If not, why should Soriano stand there and watch his (or should I saw trot backwards, which is basically the same thing). Is Soriano's home run that much more special because he makes about 18m a year more than Fontenot?

 

Fact: Standing there watching your home run is about the biggest insult you can hand to the opposing pitcher on the mound. As long as you don't mind the retaliation that comes with insulting the pitcher, then I suppose one should continue showing their ass to the opposing pitcher.

 

But, in this case, Soriano's actions ended up getting Lee a suspension. I hope he thinks it was worth it.

 

Rewind. Soriano hits his home run and runs the bases like a mature and professional baseball player. Fast forward. Derek Lee maybe gets the game winning hit in today's game, and is not at risk of missing future games because of one his own teammates actions.

 

After I made my initial post, I was going to edit it to add something to this effect. I think you nailed it!

[imb]

First off, Soriano didnt "stand there and watch it". He totally did showboat, but he was at least moving towards first base the whole time.

 

Secondly, players admire home runs everyday in a far "worse" manner than Soriano without huge fistfights breaking out. David Ortiz doesnt get thrown at in the head every time Manny admires a homer.

 

Trying to put any blame for this on Soriano is stupid.

[Soul]

First off, Soriano didnt "stand there and watch it". He totally did showboat, but he was at least moving towards first base the whole time.

 

Secondly, players admire home runs everyday in a far "worse" manner than Soriano without huge fistfights breaking out. David Ortiz doesnt get thrown at in the head every time Manny admires a homer.

 

Trying to put any blame for this on Soriano is stupid.

 

Of course. Christ, Sammy did much worse on every single one of his 599 home runs.

 

It's really simple in my mind: the Padres are a bunch of punks who like to throw at heads, but of course they don't have the courage to take it up with the guy who they actually had a beef with. Instead, they go after someone else like the wussy cowards that they are.

 

Screw them. It's just too bad we now have to suffer a 5 game losing streak (estimated, with Lee out) because certain members of the Padres are wussies.

 

I was at the game, by the way -- it was fun, but realizing Lee is going to be suspended with Ramirez already out is a real drag, and pretty much ruined the day for me.

Edited June 17, 2007 by Soul

[BigbadB]

Trying to put any blame for this on Soriano is stupid.

 

Really? Why did Young throw at Lee today?

 

Because Young didn't like the color of Lee's shoes? No

 

Because he doesn't like Derrek Lee's player number? No

 

Because Soriano showed up his teammate yesterday? Yes

[CubColtPacer]

First off, Soriano didnt "stand there and watch it". He totally did showboat, but he was at least moving towards first base the whole time.

 

Secondly, players admire home runs everyday in a far "worse" manner than Soriano without huge fistfights breaking out. David Ortiz doesnt get thrown at in the head every time Manny admires a homer.

 

Trying to put any blame for this on Soriano is stupid.

 

I agree. While what Soriano did was wrong, but it was so much less than several other people around the league. He looked at it for a second or two, trotted backwards for another couple seconds, and then started on a pretty quick jog around the bases.

 

If the Padres are going to start throwing at people because of what Soriano did, they are going to have starting beanball wars every couple weeks. Since they aren't, I don't know why they were so upset in this case.