Best young crop of talent in quite some time

[rawaction]

Colvin is a light hitting corner OF who can't take a walk.

 

Corner OF? His CF defense is great - good range, instincts and arm. Light-hitting? He has a .491 SLG in the FSL, a pitching-dominated league.

 

But yes, his patience is crap and plate discipline issues are going to catch up to him in AA or higher.

 

I still like Colvin. I think he could be a nice player. Nothing special probably at this point, but could be a .285/.340/.500 player for a while. I think Pie can eventually produce like a corner OF, putting less pressure on Colvin to be a big time producer.

[UK1679666180]

But, you can't ignore the possibility of having a good defensive OF'er next to a great defensive OF'er at a minimal price.

 

He's not going to be much better than Murton at the plate (probably better avg. better power and worse approach/OBP) but he'll a chance to play over someone like Murton b/c of a few things, whether or not they are very valid depends on the person.

 

1)Better defense

2)LH'ed

3)More speed

4)1st rd. pick of the Cubs

 

Of course, that assumes he has progressed to the point where he belongs on the 25 man roster.

Edited June 12, 2007 by UK

[rawaction]

Colvin is a light hitting corner OF who can't take a walk.

 

Corner OF? His CF defense is great - good range, insticts and arm. Light-hitting? He has a .491 SLG in the FSL, a pitching-dominated league.

 

But yes, his patience is crap and it's going to catch up to him in AA or higher.

 

He won't be a CF, unless Pie is dealt. For the purposes of judging offensive talent on the Cubs, he's a RF. And that SLG is good for 10th in the league, but propped up by his average. He's still way down the list in HR.

 

Light hitting corner OF who can't take a walk is dead on.

 

I don't see how you can basically take away points because he won't be a CF for the Cubs. If he can hit, he can hit. You say his SLG is 10th in the league, but then say he's a light hitter. That doesn't make sense. Who cares if it's propped up by his average since he projects as a good hitter.

[Guest]

But, you can't ignore the possibility of having a good defensive OF'er next to a great defensive OF'er at a minimal price.

 

He's not going to be much better than Murton at the plate (probably better avg. better power and worse approach/OBP) but he'll a chance to play over someone like Murton b/c of a few things, whether or not they are very valid depends on the person.

 

1)Better defense

2)LH'ed

3)More speed

4)1st rd. pick of the Cubs

 

Of course, that assumes he has progressed to the point where he belongs on the 25 man roster.

 

I'd add 5) More power.

[UK1679666180]

But, you can't ignore the possibility of having a good defensive OF'er next to a great defensive OF'er at a minimal price.

 

He's not going to be much better than Murton at the plate (probably better avg. better power and worse approach/OBP) but he'll a chance to play over someone like Murton b/c of a few things, whether or not they are very valid depends on the person.

 

1)Better defense

2)LH'ed

3)More speed

4)1st rd. pick of the Cubs

 

Of course, that assumes he has progressed to the point where he belongs on the 25 man roster.

 

I'd add 5) More power.

 

:)

 

Although, I didn't include it in the list.

[Guest]

Guh, I have bad reading comprehension.

[jersey cubs fan]

Colvin is a light hitting corner OF who can't take a walk.

 

Corner OF? His CF defense is great - good range, instincts and arm. Light-hitting? He has a .491 SLG in the FSL, a pitching-dominated league.

 

But yes, his patience is crap and plate discipline issues are going to catch up to him in AA or higher.

 

I still like Colvin. I think he could be a nice player. Nothing special probably at this point, but could be a .285/.340/.500 player for a while. I think Pie can eventually produce like a corner OF, putting less pressure on Colvin to be a big time producer.

 

Either player as a corner OF would take away a big chunk of their value for the team.

 

An IsoD of .055 might be a bit to ask for Colvin, not to mention an IsoP of .215. He's at .030/.185 right now in A ball.

 

I could see him being a nice player, as in a guy who outperforms his salary for 4-5 years. But I'm not all that positive he'll outperform Jacque Jones when all is said and done. A few seasons around a 780-800 OPS, but ultimately a disappointment due to the really ugly k/bb.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't see how you can basically take away points because he won't be a CF for the Cubs. If he can hit, he can hit. You say his SLG is 10th in the league, but then say he's a light hitter. That doesn't make sense. Who cares if it's propped up by his average since he projects as a good hitter.

 

I'm not taking away points. Where are the points that can be taken away.

 

The problem is he can't hit, not all that well at least.

 

Who cares? Um, I would think Cubs fans. A light hitter can still hit .300. A light hitter refers to power, not average. His SLG is okay, but it's propped up by average as he's had very little HR power, even compared to others in his league. It makes perfect sense to call such a hitter a light hitter. Wasn't Mark Grace a light hitter?

 

I care because a prospect with okay numbers that are heavily dependent on AVG with no power or patience doesn't exactly scream top notch offensive talent to me. And that's the point of this whole discussion. At this point Colvin is nothing more than another guy who might contribute a bit to the team, but he's nobody to get overly giddy about when talking about the potential for big things on the Cubs by their current group of young hitters.

[jersey cubs fan]

But, you can't ignore the possibility of having a good defensive OF'er next to a great defensive OF'er at a minimal price.

 

He's not going to be much better than Murton at the plate (probably better avg. better power and worse approach/OBP) but he'll a chance to play over someone like Murton b/c of a few things, whether or not they are very valid depends on the person.

 

1)Better defense

2)LH'ed

3)More speed

4)1st rd. pick of the Cubs

 

Of course, that assumes he has progressed to the point where he belongs on the 25 man roster.

 

I'd add 5) More power.

 

:)

 

Although, I didn't include it in the list.

 

You will probably be able to add a 6th) Murton won't be around if/when Colvin makes the big team.

[rawaction]

Colvin is a light hitting corner OF who can't take a walk.

 

Corner OF? His CF defense is great - good range, instincts and arm. Light-hitting? He has a .491 SLG in the FSL, a pitching-dominated league.

 

But yes, his patience is crap and plate discipline issues are going to catch up to him in AA or higher.

 

I still like Colvin. I think he could be a nice player. Nothing special probably at this point, but could be a .285/.340/.500 player for a while. I think Pie can eventually produce like a corner OF, putting less pressure on Colvin to be a big time producer.

 

Either player as a corner OF would take away a big chunk of their value for the team.

 

An IsoD of .055 might be a bit to ask for Colvin, not to mention an IsoP of .215. He's at .030/.185 right now in A ball.

 

I could see him being a nice player, as in a guy who outperforms his salary for 4-5 years. But I'm not all that positive he'll outperform Jacque Jones when all is said and done. A few seasons around a 780-800 OPS, but ultimately a disappointment due to the really ugly k/bb.

 

Ok. That makes sense. The IsoD was assuming he would improve to a respectable level, which he would have to do to even reach the majors. The IsoP I elevated because he still will get stronger and again he's in what I feel is the toughest hitter's league in all of minor league baseball.

[rawaction]

I don't see how you can basically take away points because he won't be a CF for the Cubs. If he can hit, he can hit. You say his SLG is 10th in the league, but then say he's a light hitter. That doesn't make sense. Who cares if it's propped up by his average since he projects as a good hitter.

 

I'm not taking away points. Where are the points that can be taken away.

 

The problem is he can't hit, not all that well at least.

 

Who cares? Um, I would think Cubs fans. A light hitter can still hit .300. A light hitter refers to power, not average. His SLG is okay, but it's propped up by average as he's had very little HR power, even compared to others in his league. It makes perfect sense to call such a hitter a light hitter. Wasn't Mark Grace a light hitter?

 

I care because a prospect with okay numbers that are heavily dependent on AVG with no power or patience doesn't exactly scream top notch offensive talent to me. And that's the point of this whole discussion. At this point Colvin is nothing more than another guy who might contribute a bit to the team, but he's nobody to get overly giddy about when talking about the potential for big things on the Cubs by their current group of young hitters.

 

You said he is a weak hitting corner OF because he won't play CF for the Cubs. It's not like he doesn't have the ability to play CF, where he would likely be slightly above average offensive.

 

Secondly, yes, Mark Grace was a weak hitter. That's because his career IsoP was .139.....a far cry from .185. The "propped up" comment doesn't make sense to me, because couldn't you say the same thing about David Ortiz? His SLG is higher than Dunn's because he hits .320 as opposed to .240, but the power is similar.

 

Third, again with the no power comment. Sure he's not hitting light tower HRs, but at this point he is 1 off the league lead with 22 doubles. He plays his home games in the largest park in the FSL. He's yet to fill out his 6'3" frame. .185 ISOP is above average power, no matter it he does it with doubles, triples or HRs.

[Guest]

Colvin's power is going to come - he plays in an anti-HR league where he's still getting quite a few doubles and he's still filling out.

 

ETA: Err, what raw said.

[jersey cubs fan]

You said he is a weak hitting corner OF because he won't play CF for the Cubs. It's not like he doesn't have the ability to play CF, where he would likely be slightly above average offensive.

 

The whole point of the thread is about young talent on the Cubs. When talking about players you have to factor in where they will play. If Colvin is going to play for the Cubs, it's like in RF. Describing him as a weak hitting corner OF is perfectly legit. Just because he can play CF doesn't mean jack squat if he doesn't play CF, unless he's traded, in which case we're no longer talking about young talent for the Cubs. If he forces Pie to RF, that just weakens Pie's value, as he's unlikely to be corner OF type hitter, although he could be a very good hitter for CF. Having 2 guys in the system who project to above average in CF before nothing special in the corners leaves you with nothing special in the corners, no matter how you cut it.

 

As for your propped up comparison with David Ortiz, um, that makes no sense. Obviously Ortiz's SLG is based heavily on HR totals. That's power. Colvin's is based mostly on his ability to hit .300 right now. Seeing how frequently he strikes out and walks, and his lack of power, I don't see him being much of a threat to hit .300 or have an IsoD of .055.

[jersey cubs fan]

Colvin's power is going to come - he plays in an anti-HR league where he's still getting quite a few doubles and he's still filling out.

 

The anti-HR league isn't stopping others from hitting HR.

[rawaction]

Colvin's power is going to come - he plays in an anti-HR league where he's still getting quite a few doubles and he's still filling out.

 

The anti-HR league isn't stopping others from hitting HR.

 

There aren't many leagues that can stop Jay Bruce.

[davearm]

Ripping on a young guy like Colvin that's slugging around .500 for a lack of power is really weak, especially considering that oftentimes power is the last tool to develop. We could put together a long list of guys that have hit 25+ HRs in the bigleagues with regularity that hit only 10 or 12 most years in the minors.

 

Better stick to the bb/k stuff.

[jersey cubs fan]

Ripping on a young guy like Colvin that's slugging around .500 for a lack of power is really weak

 

The lack of power is just part of his game. The ripping is about lack of walks and too many k's at the same time.

[Chocolate Milk]

Ripping on a young guy like Colvin that's slugging around .500 for a lack of power is really weak

 

The lack of power is just part of his game. The ripping is about lack of walks and too many k's at the same time.

 

How is lack of power part of his game when he's top 10 in the FSL in slugging? I get that he's going to have to move to a corner, most likely, and that would diminish the value of his current slugging. But then again his slugging might continue to increase as he develops. That's certianly not out of the realm of possibility.

 

There are plenty of things to be critical of Colvin for but I think you are being overly harsh here by calling him "light hitting".

[abuck1220]

Wow, you guys have a way of turning a positive post into a steaming pile of crap in no time at all. There's no question that the Cubs farm system has been completely devoid of position talent in recent decades, but I personally like seeing this much young talent producing for the Cubs on the field---instead of all the hype and hope of Prior and Wood.

 

 

speaking of a pile of crap.

 

so all wood and prior were was hype and hope, huh? those two did more for this organization "on the field" than hill, theriot, pie, fontenot, marshall and guzman added together times 10.

 

two good weeks out of pie is "producing for the cubs on the field," yet wood's 165 innings in 1998, 170 innings in 2001, 200+ innings in 2002, 200+ dominant innings in 2003, his postseason performance in 2003, and 140 innings of 122 era+ in 2004 were all hype and hope?

 

and fontenot's 20 good ab's is "producing for the cubs on the field," but prior's 120 dominant innings at age 21, one of the greatest seasons ever by a cub pitcher in 2003, and two above average injury shortened seasons in 2004 and 2005 were all hype and hope?

 

what a stupid, stupid post. have a little perspective. it's crap like this that makes me hate a lot of my fellow cub fans.

[jersey cubs fan]

Ripping on a young guy like Colvin that's slugging around .500 for a lack of power is really weak

 

The lack of power is just part of his game. The ripping is about lack of walks and too many k's at the same time.

 

How is lack of power part of his game when he's top 10 in the FSL in slugging? I get that he's going to have to move to a corner, most likely, and that would diminish the value of his current slugging. But then again his slugging might continue to increase as he develops. That's certianly not out of the realm of possibility.

 

There are plenty of things to be critical of Colvin for but I think you are being overly harsh here by calling him "light hitting".

 

Slugging is more than power. Colvin may be 10th in SLG, but he's 22nd in HR. And he's in 1 of 3 high A level leagues. So, unlike being 10 in SLG or 22nd in HR in the majors, he's more like 30th and 66th, and that's just in A ball, not even AA or AAA. If he was top 10 in HR and top 5 in SLG, I might change my tune, but it's pretty clear to me he's not much of a power hitter.

[jersey cubs fan]

Wow, you guys have a way of turning a positive post into a steaming pile of crap in no time at all. There's no question that the Cubs farm system has been completely devoid of position talent in recent decades, but I personally like seeing this much young talent producing for the Cubs on the field---instead of all the hype and hope of Prior and Wood.

 

 

speaking of a pile of crap.

 

so all wood and prior were was hype and hope, huh? those two did more for this organization "on the field" than hill, theriot, pie, fontenot, marshall and guzman added together times 10.

 

two good weeks out of pie is "producing for the cubs on the field," yet wood's 165 innings in 1998, 170 innings in 2001, 200+ innings in 2002, 200+ dominant innings in 2003, his postseason performance in 2003, and 140 innings of 122 era+ in 2004 were all hype and hope?

 

and fontenot's 20 good ab's is "producing for the cubs on the field," but prior's 120 dominant innings at age 21, one of the greatest seasons ever by a cub pitcher in 2003, and two above average injury shortened seasons in 2004 and 2005 were all hype and hope?

 

what a stupid, stupid post. have a little perspective. it's crap like this that makes me hate a lot of my fellow cub fans.

 

I didn't even notice the ridiculousness of that claim.

 

It was tough enough to think Theriot has shown he can be a good everyday player (which he hasn't).

[illiniguy]

Wow, you guys have a way of turning a positive post into a steaming pile of crap in no time at all. There's no question that the Cubs farm system has been completely devoid of position talent in recent decades, but I personally like seeing this much young talent producing for the Cubs on the field---instead of all the hype and hope of Prior and Wood.

 

 

speaking of a pile of crap.

 

so all wood and prior were was hype and hope, huh? those two did more for this organization "on the field" than hill, theriot, pie, fontenot, marshall and guzman added together times 10.

 

two good weeks out of pie is "producing for the cubs on the field," yet wood's 165 innings in 1998, 170 innings in 2001, 200+ innings in 2002, 200+ dominant innings in 2003, his postseason performance in 2003, and 140 innings of 122 era+ in 2004 were all hype and hope?

 

and fontenot's 20 good ab's is "producing for the cubs on the field," but prior's 120 dominant innings at age 21, one of the greatest seasons ever by a cub pitcher in 2003, and two above average injury shortened seasons in 2004 and 2005 were all hype and hope?

 

what a stupid, stupid post. have a little perspective. it's crap like this that makes me hate a lot of my fellow cub fans.

I was assuming he meant since they got hurt and we have been counting on them. But, even then your post is dead on. Those two guys put the cubs back on the map.

[Chocolate Milk]

Ripping on a young guy like Colvin that's slugging around .500 for a lack of power is really weak

 

The lack of power is just part of his game. The ripping is about lack of walks and too many k's at the same time.

 

How is lack of power part of his game when he's top 10 in the FSL in slugging? I get that he's going to have to move to a corner, most likely, and that would diminish the value of his current slugging. But then again his slugging might continue to increase as he develops. That's certianly not out of the realm of possibility.

 

There are plenty of things to be critical of Colvin for but I think you are being overly harsh here by calling him "light hitting".

 

Slugging is more than power. Colvin may be 10th in SLG, but he's 22nd in HR. And he's in 1 of 3 high A level leagues. So, unlike being 10 in SLG or 22nd in HR in the majors, he's more like 30th and 66th, and that's just in A ball, not even AA or AAA. If he was top 10 in HR and top 5 in SLG, I might change my tune, but it's pretty clear to me he's not much of a power hitter.

 

I did forget about the other leagues but I'm not sure how those compare across the board or if you can compare numbers cross leagues. Can you? Comparing a pitching dominated league to a hitter dominated league is going to skew things, no?

 

I just think your being a little premature here in saying he's a light hitter in that he's early in his devlopment and slugging well for his league. I'm just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt here as it's early and I find it more fun that way.

 

His bb/k ratio is atrocious though. I am with everyone there.

 

Edit: It also seems that you are refering to HR power when you say "power" which I didn't really grasp the first time around.

[Guest]

Ripping on a young guy like Colvin that's slugging around .500 for a lack of power is really weak

 

The lack of power is just part of his game. The ripping is about lack of walks and too many k's at the same time.

 

How is lack of power part of his game when he's top 10 in the FSL in slugging? I get that he's going to have to move to a corner, most likely, and that would diminish the value of his current slugging. But then again his slugging might continue to increase as he develops. That's certianly not out of the realm of possibility.

 

There are plenty of things to be critical of Colvin for but I think you are being overly harsh here by calling him "light hitting".

 

Slugging is more than power. Colvin may be 10th in SLG, but he's 22nd in HR. And he's in 1 of 3 high A level leagues. So, unlike being 10 in SLG or 22nd in HR in the majors, he's more like 30th and 66th, and that's just in A ball, not even AA or AAA. If he was top 10 in HR and top 5 in SLG, I might change my tune, but it's pretty clear to me he's not much of a power hitter.

 

I did forget about the other leagues but I'm not sure how those compare across the board or if you can compare numbers cross leagues. Can you? Comparing a pitching dominated league to a hitter dominated league is going to skew things, no?

 

I just think your being a little premature here in saying he's a light hitter in that he's early in his devlopment and slugging well for his league. I'm just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt here as it's early and I find it more fun that way.

 

His bb/k ratio is atrocious though. I am with everyone there.

 

Edit: It also seems that you are refering to HR power when you say "power" which I didn't really grasp the first time around.

 

Not sure about the Carolina League but the California League is a hitter's paradise.

[Chocolate Milk]

Ripping on a young guy like Colvin that's slugging around .500 for a lack of power is really weak

 

The lack of power is just part of his game. The ripping is about lack of walks and too many k's at the same time.

 

How is lack of power part of his game when he's top 10 in the FSL in slugging? I get that he's going to have to move to a corner, most likely, and that would diminish the value of his current slugging. But then again his slugging might continue to increase as he develops. That's certianly not out of the realm of possibility.

 

There are plenty of things to be critical of Colvin for but I think you are being overly harsh here by calling him "light hitting".

 

Slugging is more than power. Colvin may be 10th in SLG, but he's 22nd in HR. And he's in 1 of 3 high A level leagues. So, unlike being 10 in SLG or 22nd in HR in the majors, he's more like 30th and 66th, and that's just in A ball, not even AA or AAA. If he was top 10 in HR and top 5 in SLG, I might change my tune, but it's pretty clear to me he's not much of a power hitter.

 

I did forget about the other leagues but I'm not sure how those compare across the board or if you can compare numbers cross leagues. Can you? Comparing a pitching dominated league to a hitter dominated league is going to skew things, no?

 

I just think your being a little premature here in saying he's a light hitter in that he's early in his devlopment and slugging well for his league. I'm just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt here as it's early and I find it more fun that way.

 

His bb/k ratio is atrocious though. I am with everyone there.

 

Edit: It also seems that you are refering to HR power when you say "power" which I didn't really grasp the first time around.

 

Not sure about the Carolina League but the California League is a hitter's paradise.

 

Just looking at it now and the top 8 in slugging in the California league would still be the top 8 in the FSL.