Trade Lee Now

[davearm]

Let me see if I've got this straight.

 

Carlos Zambrano and Michael Barrett get into a gradeschool slapfight, and the correct response from the Cubs is to trade Derrek Lee.

 

More like, The Cubs are playing themselves out of this season, a potential response is to see what they could get for Lee.

So it's just purely coincidence that this thread started today?

[Drew Doughty]

Let me see if I've got this straight.

 

Carlos Zambrano and Michael Barrett get into a gradeschool slapfight, and the correct response from the Cubs is to trade Derrek Lee.

 

More like, The Cubs are playing themselves out of this season, a potential response is to see what they could get for Lee.

So it's just purely coincidence that this thread started today?

 

well no, today is a boiling point. today was bad on an epic level.

[SeldomSeen]

Let me see if I've got this straight.

 

Carlos Zambrano and Michael Barrett get into a gradeschool slapfight, and the correct response from the Cubs is to trade Derrek Lee.

 

More like, The Cubs are playing themselves out of this season, a potential response is to see what they could get for Lee.

So it's just purely coincidence that this thread started today?

No, but today is a good indicator of where this team is. Do you really believe that this team, as constructed, has any chance of winning a division- even one as bad as the NL central? Even if by some miracle they were to win a division, is this team really a contender in the playoffs? No. Is this team a player or two away? I don't think so. In this case it is perfectly reasonable to reset the focus on two years from now, and re-tooling for that time frame is not an unreasonable suggestion.

[Guest]

No, this was posted today amidst all the talk of trading Barrett and others. Of course Lee is what you want. The problem is that Lee is leaving his prime, probably a little overrated around the league, and plays a position in high demand amongst playoff contenders. This has nothing to do with how he helps the Cubs - the Cubs aren't going to win with or without him. They probably need to add 10 wins to this team to be in the 90-95 win range. So, that means its time to rebuild. If you are going to rebuild, you have to trade your chips while they are high value. A lot of people criticize Hendry for selling low - this is a chance to sell high. Letting Lee excel on a 70-80 win team and then watching him get old doesn't do much to win a championship.

 

If you are reading this as criticism of Lee, you are completing missing the point.

[Banedon]

stitch, why do you hate Lee so much?

 

 

:)

[SouthSideRyan]

Kinda said already, but I don't want Lee traded until a competent GM is brought in. I'm perfectly fine with him and Ramirez playing out their contracts.

[RyneSandberg]

Is whoever started this topic on PCP, that is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. Please tell me you where tanked when you typed that.

[Prior4CyYoung]

Let me see if I've got this straight.

 

Carlos Zambrano and Michael Barrett get into a gradeschool slapfight, and the correct response from the Cubs is to trade Derrek Lee.

 

Zambrano and Barrett would also be traded hell I would trade the entire team besides Rich Hill for any package of solid prospects Lee is just getting mentioned as he would net the largest package.

[tkenm356]

the Cubs aren't going to win with or without him.

 

Well they're definitely not going to win without him, and I personally think they have a good chance to win with him. Getting rid of Lee for future production a couple years down the road is unneccesary when there are other players we could deal without that could be traded for pieces we need to help us win this year.

 

They probably need to add 10 wins to this team to be in the 90-95 win range. So, that means its time to rebuild

 

You do realize that this generalization is true for the Cardinals, Pirates, Reds, and Astros as well, right? And if the Brewers keep playing the way they have for the next week or two, you can lump them in there as well. Yeah, we're 7.5 back of the Brewers, who are losing ground, and yet we're a 1.5 back of 2nd place. This means that the NL Central is still a toss up, and giving up right now when this division can still be had is foolish.

[USSoccer]

Trading Lee smacks of stupid frustration.

 

As terrible as this team is, this division is just as terrible. One decent winning streak puts us right behind Milwaukee, and we're not even halfway done with the season. And if you sneak into the postseason, all it takes is a little bit of luck. I'd take a lucky WS after 84 wins.

 

If you want to trade/release/DFA guys, do it to the guys that are worthless, not to guys like Lee and Ramirez who are the only offensive players actually playing.

[Wheelimus]

Lets put it this way. You can trade Lee, but the haul better put a smile on our faces once the frown of losing Derrek fades...

[Guest]

stupid? no. frustration. heck yeah. This team has been directionless for over 30 years. Its time for someone with a plan to take action and build a winner. You can dream all you want about winning a terrible division and getting lucky enough to win a WS. Guess what? Its happened twice in the last 50 years. Is this really where you want your team going? Hey! If we get lucky we can win a crappy division with a .500 record! Then if we get really lucky again, we can win the WS!

 

Wonderful. Keep drinking the kool-aid. Keep believing Lilly and Marquis aren't going to struggle this summer and that Lou will figure out the bullpen. Keep dreaming that someone will be on base when Lee and Ramirez bat.

 

This pipe dream of a crappy team winning the world series is just that. Until someone executes a real plan, the Cubs will continue to be mediocre at best. I'm tired of that and want more. You have to sell high to get value and that should be the plan.

 

And any of you who think that's stupid should at least have the courage to state your ideas.

[Guest]

As terrible as this team is, this division is just as terrible. One decent winning streak puts us right behind Milwaukee, and we're not even halfway done with the season. And if you sneak into the postseason, all it takes is a little bit of luck. I'd take a lucky WS after 84 wins.

 

The Cubs would have to play .564 ball the rest of the way to get to 84 wins? Do you really believe that's going to happen? I don't. That would be 91 win pace - a pace the Cubs haven't managed for a full season since 1989. Even the pythagenport standings people have loved to cling to so far have the Cubs at .519. Then you have to assume the Brewers are sub .500 the rest of the way and no one else puts it together.

 

Do you guys get the picture? This is not a team thats going to win this year. Its not going to happen. Its not a team poised to get better next year either. In fact, the prospect cupboard is virtually bare.

 

How do you propose the Cubs build a winner? Not an 84 game winner - an actual contender? Should we continue to look for "classy" players and lose or should we break up a roster that doesn't work and try and build a winner?

[USSoccer]

As terrible as this team is, this division is just as terrible. One decent winning streak puts us right behind Milwaukee, and we're not even halfway done with the season. And if you sneak into the postseason, all it takes is a little bit of luck. I'd take a lucky WS after 84 wins.

 

The Cubs would have to play .564 ball the rest of the way to get to 84 wins? Do you really believe that's going to happen? I don't. That would be 91 win pace - a pace the Cubs haven't managed for a full season since 1989. Even the pythagenport standings people have loved to cling to so far have the Cubs at .519. Then you have to assume the Brewers are sub .500 the rest of the way and no one else puts it together.

 

Do you guys get the picture? This is not a team thats going to win this year. Its not going to happen. Its not a team poised to get better next year either. In fact, the prospect cupboard is virtually bare.

 

How do you propose the Cubs build a winner? Not an 84 game winner - an actual contender? Should we continue to look for "classy" players and lose or should we break up a roster that doesn't work and try and build a winner?

 

I don't have faith in Jim Hendry to execute a firesale, and I think that this team will be able to contend with Lee and Ramirez in 1-2 seasons. Neither guy's salary is prohibitive. Both guys are in their prime. You're never going to be able to "blow it all up" anyway, and a team with the resources like the Cubs have shouldn't ever do it either. You can retool on the fly, though, with players that are expendable.

 

My ideas are as follows:

 

Trade:

 

Murton

Barrett

Zambrano

Howry

Jones

Floyd

Izturis

 

Barrett, Murton, Zambrano and Jones should bring us a pretty good haul. All contenders look for starting pitching and bullpen help. Z should command one pre-arb everyday player and two higher end prospects. Barrett should be able to get us one decent prospect. Howry should be able to get us one as well. Use Murton along with someone to bring in a better haul, if necessary. Jones, Floyd and Izturis I'd move for whatever. By making all the corner OF guys available, you should be able to move one of them.

 

Hypothetical moves/destinations:

 

Zambrano to LAA for Wood and Santana

Barrett to Tampa for Baldelli

Barrett to Anaheim

Howry to Boston/Anaheim/White Sox

 

Release/DFA:

 

Eyre

 

If he's going to suck, and you can't find a taker, release him.

 

Bring up:

 

Soto

Pie

Rapada

 

You'd go into 2008 with Lee, Ramirez and Soriano anchoring your lineup. Pie playing CF, and Soto catching for the league minimum, offsetting Soriano's bloated salary. If Theriot and Patterson are you middle IF, they aren't going to be expensive either. Depending on who you trade those guys for, you could have a Brandon Wood playing SS. You could have Rocco Baldelli in RF. You could have ARod at SS and Theriot at 2B. DeRosa would be the utility guy he is. Hopefully you'd target a real corner OF with some of your trades. Lastings Milledge? The Mets would part with him in a Zambrano deal for sure.

 

Your pitching staff is what it is at the moment. I don't think you could move Lilly. Marquis you might be able to sell high on. Hill you would keep. Hopefully in your Z deal you are able to get a really good P prospect back. Anaheim could send you someone. NY has Pelfry. Z for Milledge and Pelfry?

 

The point is, Lee and Ramirez should be your cornerstones, not players you deal away. There are other options besides just saying "screw it" and trading everyone and becoming the 2006 Marlins.

[Guest]

So you don't trust Hendry to do a firesale but you trust him to build a winner by next year or 2009? Given his history and the current ownership status, I am not too confident with that.

 

I guess where we disagree is that I don't see this team winning before Lee and Ramirez drop off in production. Therefore, their greater value is to acquire players for a future dominant team.

[Sosa21MVP]

Bad idea.

[SouthSideRyan]

stupid? no. frustration. heck yeah. This team has been directionless for over 30 years. Its time for someone with a plan to take action and build a winner. You can dream all you want about winning a terrible division and getting lucky enough to win a WS. Guess what? Its happened twice in the last 50 years. Is this really where you want your team going? Hey! If we get lucky we can win a crappy division with a .500 record! Then if we get really lucky again, we can win the WS!

 

I really [expletive] hate this [expletive] BS. Someone disagrees with me?? They must be a stupid kool aid swilling Trib subscriber who doesn't care where the team's going. God forbid they want to keep one of the best players on the team, whose contract may not even be that unreasonable in the new market.

 

And the Cubs have won their dvision 3 times in the last 23 years, 4 playoff appearances in that time, but you were probably too busy drinking in the bleachers and peeing on yourself stupid wannabe Cub fan!!!!

[NCCubFan]

stupid? no. frustration. heck yeah. This team has been directionless for over 30 years. Its time for someone with a plan to take action and build a winner. You can dream all you want about winning a terrible division and getting lucky enough to win a WS. Guess what? Its happened twice in the last 50 years. Is this really where you want your team going? Hey! If we get lucky we can win a crappy division with a .500 record! Then if we get really lucky again, we can win the WS!

 

I really [expletive] hate this [expletive] BS. Someone disagrees with me?? They must be a stupid kool aid swilling Trib subscriber who doesn't care where the team's going. God forbid they want to keep one of the best players on the team, whose contract may not even be that unreasonable in the new market.

 

And the Cubs have won their dvision 3 times in the last 23 years, 4 playoff appearances in that time, but you were probably too busy drinking in the bleachers and peeing on yourself stupid wannabe Cub fan!!!!

OK, that's way out of line, clearly a personal attack. Knock it off.

[SouthSideRyan]

stupid? no. frustration. heck yeah. This team has been directionless for over 30 years. Its time for someone with a plan to take action and build a winner. You can dream all you want about winning a terrible division and getting lucky enough to win a WS. Guess what? Its happened twice in the last 50 years. Is this really where you want your team going? Hey! If we get lucky we can win a crappy division with a .500 record! Then if we get really lucky again, we can win the WS!

 

I really [expletive] hate this [expletive] BS. Someone disagrees with me?? They must be a stupid kool aid swilling Trib subscriber who doesn't care where the team's going. God forbid they want to keep one of the best players on the team, whose contract may not even be that unreasonable in the new market.

 

And the Cubs have won their dvision 3 times in the last 23 years, 4 playoff appearances in that time, but you were probably too busy drinking in the bleachers and peeing on yourself stupid wannabe Cub fan!!!!

OK, that's way out of line, clearly a personal attack. Knock it off.

 

Cause the context was really hard to see as I responded to his calling everyone who disagreed with him a koolaid swilling fan content with lucking into the postseason. Did you even read the rest of what I wrote?

[Guest]

stupid? no. frustration. heck yeah. This team has been directionless for over 30 years. Its time for someone with a plan to take action and build a winner. You can dream all you want about winning a terrible division and getting lucky enough to win a WS. Guess what? Its happened twice in the last 50 years. Is this really where you want your team going? Hey! If we get lucky we can win a crappy division with a .500 record! Then if we get really lucky again, we can win the WS!

 

I really [expletive] hate this [expletive] BS. Someone disagrees with me?? They must be a stupid kool aid swilling Trib subscriber who doesn't care where the team's going. God forbid they want to keep one of the best players on the team, whose contract may not even be that unreasonable in the new market.

 

And the Cubs have won their dvision 3 times in the last 23 years, 4 playoff appearances in that time, but you were probably too busy drinking in the bleachers and peeing on yourself stupid wannabe Cub fan!!!!

OK, that's way out of line, clearly a personal attack. Knock it off.

 

Cause the context was really hard to see as I responded to his calling everyone who disagreed with him a koolaid swilling fan content with lucking into the postseason. Did you even read the rest of what I wrote?

 

lol, your post doesn't even make sense.

[NCCubFan]

stupid? no. frustration. heck yeah. This team has been directionless for over 30 years. Its time for someone with a plan to take action and build a winner. You can dream all you want about winning a terrible division and getting lucky enough to win a WS. Guess what? Its happened twice in the last 50 years. Is this really where you want your team going? Hey! If we get lucky we can win a crappy division with a .500 record! Then if we get really lucky again, we can win the WS!

 

I really [expletive] hate this [expletive] BS. Someone disagrees with me?? They must be a stupid kool aid swilling Trib subscriber who doesn't care where the team's going. God forbid they want to keep one of the best players on the team, whose contract may not even be that unreasonable in the new market.

 

And the Cubs have won their dvision 3 times in the last 23 years, 4 playoff appearances in that time, but you were probably too busy drinking in the bleachers and peeing on yourself stupid wannabe Cub fan!!!!

OK, that's way out of line, clearly a personal attack. Knock it off.

 

Cause the context was really hard to see as I responded to his calling everyone who disagreed with him a koolaid swilling fan content with lucking into the postseason. Did you even read the rest of what I wrote?

Yes, but it doesn't matter what the context is. Calling somebody stupid is personal.

[abuck1220]

Trading Lee smacks of stupid frustration.

 

As terrible as this team is, this division is just as terrible. One decent winning streak puts us right behind Milwaukee, and we're not even halfway done with the season. And if you sneak into the postseason, all it takes is a little bit of luck. I'd take a lucky WS after 84 wins.

 

 

who are you, jim hendry? that's the worst plan i've ever heard...it smacks of "let's be competitive within the division." the cubs have the resources to be a dominant team...it's idiotic to settle for 84 wins and hope for a lucky postseason run.

[oldcubsfan]

stupid? no. frustration. heck yeah. This team has been directionless for over 30 years. Its time for someone with a plan to take action and build a winner. You can dream all you want about winning a terrible division and getting lucky enough to win a WS. Guess what? Its happened twice in the last 50 years. Is this really where you want your team going? Hey! If we get lucky we can win a crappy division with a .500 record! Then if we get really lucky again, we can win the WS!

 

I really [expletive] hate this [expletive] BS. Someone disagrees with me?? They must be a stupid kool aid swilling Trib subscriber who doesn't care where the team's going. God forbid they want to keep one of the best players on the team, whose contract may not even be that unreasonable in the new market.

 

And the Cubs have won their dvision 3 times in the last 23 years, 4 playoff appearances in that time, but you were probably too busy drinking in the bleachers and peeing on yourself stupid wannabe Cub fan!!!!

OK, that's way out of line, clearly a personal attack. Knock it off.

 

Cause the context was really hard to see as I responded to his calling everyone who disagreed with him a koolaid swilling fan content with lucking into the postseason. Did you even read the rest of what I wrote?

 

lol, your post doesn't even make sense.

His is far better than your's.

[Guest]

stupid? no. frustration. heck yeah. This team has been directionless for over 30 years. Its time for someone with a plan to take action and build a winner. You can dream all you want about winning a terrible division and getting lucky enough to win a WS. Guess what? Its happened twice in the last 50 years. Is this really where you want your team going? Hey! If we get lucky we can win a crappy division with a .500 record! Then if we get really lucky again, we can win the WS!

 

I really [expletive] hate this [expletive] BS. Someone disagrees with me?? They must be a stupid kool aid swilling Trib subscriber who doesn't care where the team's going. God forbid they want to keep one of the best players on the team, whose contract may not even be that unreasonable in the new market.

 

And the Cubs have won their dvision 3 times in the last 23 years, 4 playoff appearances in that time, but you were probably too busy drinking in the bleachers and peeing on yourself stupid wannabe Cub fan!!!!

OK, that's way out of line, clearly a personal attack. Knock it off.

 

Cause the context was really hard to see as I responded to his calling everyone who disagreed with him a koolaid swilling fan content with lucking into the postseason. Did you even read the rest of what I wrote?

 

lol, your post doesn't even make sense.

His is far better than your's.

 

So you are satisfied with three first round losses and one playoff series win in 23 (62) years? Great! I'm not. I'm just a horrible person because I would rather win than dwell on the past success of one cubs hero.

[SouthSideRyan]

stupid? no. frustration. heck yeah. This team has been directionless for over 30 years. Its time for someone with a plan to take action and build a winner. You can dream all you want about winning a terrible division and getting lucky enough to win a WS. Guess what? Its happened twice in the last 50 years. Is this really where you want your team going? Hey! If we get lucky we can win a crappy division with a .500 record! Then if we get really lucky again, we can win the WS!

 

I really [expletive] hate this [expletive] BS. Someone disagrees with me?? They must be a stupid kool aid swilling Trib subscriber who doesn't care where the team's going. God forbid they want to keep one of the best players on the team, whose contract may not even be that unreasonable in the new market.

 

And the Cubs have won their dvision 3 times in the last 23 years, 4 playoff appearances in that time, but you were probably too busy drinking in the bleachers and peeing on yourself stupid wannabe Cub fan!!!!

OK, that's way out of line, clearly a personal attack. Knock it off.

 

Cause the context was really hard to see as I responded to his calling everyone who disagreed with him a koolaid swilling fan content with lucking into the postseason. Did you even read the rest of what I wrote?

 

lol, your post doesn't even make sense.

His is far better than your's.

 

So you are satisfied with three first round losses and one playoff series win in 23 (62) years? Great! I'm not. I'm just a horrible person because I would rather win than dwell on the past success of one cubs hero.

 

Who's done that anywhere?? I was merely correcting your inaccurate statement. If you're going to get up on your high horse about what horrible fans people are for not wanting to trade Lee, you might want to get your facts right about how horrible the team has been.