2007 NFL Draft

[texascub]

I'd be willing to bet that Cinci will be taking one of Hall, Ross, or Houston here.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Moss...hmm i didnt think we needed to move up for him. Fills a need though.

seems they gave alot..they must have really liked Moss....

[Soul]

Strange. Wouldn't Moss have been there anyway? Maybe they figured Cincy would take him.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

For the Bears, I'm loving that Bowe and Meachem are still available.

[RynoRules]

Broncos still have another 3. I think that is a good deal for them. Moss reminds me of Jevon Kearse.

[Banedon]

unless someone trades in before 31, i think Quinn will be there :shock:

 

Dallas, Jacksonville and Baltimore are the biggest threats to take him before then I think.

[reggiemiller rules]

It doesnt seem as if the difference between Moss and Spencer is enough to give up a 3rd round pick to me but Denver must really like moss.

[soccer10k]

Russell has done a whole lot more on the field, against much tougher opponents.

 

And how much of that was due to the talent at LSU? I'm guessing a lot. I'm not saying Russell would have been trash otherwise but he wouldn't be anywhere near the prospect he is if he switched spots with Quinn. The talent at LSU was miles ahead of the talent at Notre Dame the last couple years.

 

Umm, we're comparing JMR to John Navarre of an equally talented Michigan teams. Not talking about ND here.

 

I just used Notre Dame because of Quinn. I could have used any team with substantially less talent than LSU had and the point would still stand.

 

How much of Russell's numbers were based on how much talent he had around him?

[texascub]

I've starting to think that ESPN's Hummer fan picks are rigged. Has there been one vote yet that wasn't 50/50 or 34/33/33?

[RynoRules]

unless someone trades in before 31, i think Quinn will be there :shock:

 

I think the Bears will deal 31 to the Browns for their no. 2 and no. 3.

[texascub]

unless someone trades in before 31, i think Quinn will be there :shock:

 

Dallas, Jacksonville and Baltimore are the biggest threats to take him before then I think.

 

I wouldn't consider Dallas a serious threat for taking Quinn, I think if anything they're bluffing and trying to get someone to trade up with them.

[reggiemiller rules]

Like I said earlier, if Cincy can get Hall at 18 that is a steal.

[imb]

 

Obviously people who follow college football knew about him - he went to LS-freaking-U. Of course people are going to know about him. What are you going to tell me next, they knew about Brady Quinn too?

 

Yes I've been following the discussion hence the reason I'm posting. Soul was obviously exaggerating when he said that Russell was "literally nowhere". I don't think Russell was a first round pick before the Sugar Bowl.

 

And if saying Quinn was #1 before the Sugar Bowl means nothing is absolutely absurd. You're the one bringing up what scouts thought of Russell for the past few years.

 

You aren't following. I'm saying they knew of his as a big-time draft prospect. Which you apparently didn't.

 

How can you exaggerate and use the word literally in a sentence. Think about that for a minute.

 

Quinn being No. 1 before the draft proves that pre-work out draft boards are meaningless. Because Russell wasn't on them at some arbitrary point during the season doesn't mean that scouts were sleeping on him and he just skyrocketed out of nowhere.

 

I knew about Russell as a solid prospect. He was not a "big time prospect" which I would define as a top 10 or 15 pick i.e. a sure first rounder. He didn't get close to that level until the Sugar Bowl.

 

And if pre-work out draft boards are meaningless then what does that say about what people thought about his pro prospects coming out of high school - which you brought into the discussion to defend Russell? Wouldn't those be even more meaningless?

 

You're really reaching here. Pre workout draft boards are meaningless because they fluctuate so much from that time until draft day. Keeping up with who has pro potential coming out of high school is an important part of team's scouting. There's no connection.

 

How am I reaching? If draft boards measuring a player's pro potential before their workout is meaningless, so should every other draft board before the pre draft workout.

 

Sorry, I think I used the wrong terminology and threw you off. I meant pre-work out mock drafts. Things like NFL draft countdown, Kiper's big board, stuff like that.

 

I mean that trying to slot who is going where and who is better than who in November means nothing, because those players haven't ever had individual work outs in front of NFL eyes, things change so quick.

 

When you're looking at a freshman QB and saying "he could be a special one in 3 years" isn't the same as saying "this guy will go No. 1 to Oakland" in August. You're comparing apples to oranges.

[RynoRules]

unless someone trades in before 31, i think Quinn will be there :shock:

 

Dallas, Jacksonville and Baltimore are the biggest threats to take him before then I think.

 

I think only the Ravens are a threat in that respect, and I still wonder whether Billick has lost his taste for rookie QBs after the Boller fiasco.

[Banedon]

unless someone trades in before 31, i think Quinn will be there :shock:

 

I think the Bears will deal 31 to the Browns for their no. 2 and no. 3.

 

That'd be a nice deal. I still think it would be tough to pass on Quinn though. If Grossman doesn't pan out this season, we don't have a franchise QB, unless you're a real big fan of Orton.

[soccer10k]

 

Obviously people who follow college football knew about him - he went to LS-freaking-U. Of course people are going to know about him. What are you going to tell me next, they knew about Brady Quinn too?

 

Yes I've been following the discussion hence the reason I'm posting. Soul was obviously exaggerating when he said that Russell was "literally nowhere". I don't think Russell was a first round pick before the Sugar Bowl.

 

And if saying Quinn was #1 before the Sugar Bowl means nothing is absolutely absurd. You're the one bringing up what scouts thought of Russell for the past few years.

 

You aren't following. I'm saying they knew of his as a big-time draft prospect. Which you apparently didn't.

 

How can you exaggerate and use the word literally in a sentence. Think about that for a minute.

 

Quinn being No. 1 before the draft proves that pre-work out draft boards are meaningless. Because Russell wasn't on them at some arbitrary point during the season doesn't mean that scouts were sleeping on him and he just skyrocketed out of nowhere.

 

Exactly.

 

Soul, I can't believe you compared Navarre to JMR.

 

I made the comparison because IMB based his big-time status on those physical attributes. So what? Make a better argument next time for why Russell's a big-time prospect.

 

Russell has done a whole lot more on the field, against much tougher opponents.

 

JMR was on scouts' radars before this season - he was earmarked as a likely first rounder all season.

 

Oh, and for the record, I think Quinn will have a better NFL career and I would have taken Calvin Johnson with the first pick overall. But, JMR didn't just come out of nowhere because of the Sugar Bowl (and he didn't need the workouts to become the top overall pick as you said earlier).

 

Alright. That's why I asked for a definition of big time prospect. To me, players drafted late in the 1st round are generally not big time prospects.

 

And BTW, there's always many more than 32 players who are considered "1st round picks" each year by someone or another. So that just doesn't have a lot of meaning for me.

 

Here's the problem - and the thing IMB! has been harking on for a while now and you just touched on it - it's too early before January. JMR was definitely on the scouts' radars and didn't come from nowhere. By the time the Sugar Bowl had come around, he had definitely become a first round pick...he was still below Quinn, but it wasn't a surprise that he was there.

 

In terms of a "big time prospect" (pretty tough to define), I think a potential first rounder with the skill set of JMR has to be considered a big time prospect because those skills can easily help him move up a lot.

 

There are a ton of players who are "on the scouts' radars" so that doesn't mean anything. It just means they have pro prospects but it doesn't say anything as to how high they are rated.

[ChiCubsFan]

unless someone trades in before 31, i think Quinn will be there :shock:

 

Dallas, Jacksonville and Baltimore are the biggest threats to take him before then I think.

 

I wouldn't consider Dallas a serious threat for taking Quinn, I think if anything they're bluffing and trying to get someone to trade up with them.

 

I could definitely see KC taking Quinn as well. KC was supposedly very interested in Ted Ginn so maybe there was some deal in place between Miami and KC. Quinn and Green for Ginn?

[Banedon]

unless someone trades in before 31, i think Quinn will be there :shock:

 

Dallas, Jacksonville and Baltimore are the biggest threats to take him before then I think.

 

I wouldn't consider Dallas a serious threat for taking Quinn, I think if anything they're bluffing and trying to get someone to trade up with them.

 

Jerry Jones likes him some big names though, so I'm leaving that as a possibility.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Russell has done a whole lot more on the field, against much tougher opponents.

 

And how much of that was due to the talent at LSU? I'm guessing a lot. I'm not saying Russell would have been trash otherwise but he wouldn't be anywhere near the prospect he is if he switched spots with Quinn. The talent at LSU was miles ahead of the talent at Notre Dame the last couple years.

 

Umm, we're comparing JMR to John Navarre of an equally talented Michigan teams. Not talking about ND here.

 

I just used Notre Dame because of Quinn. I could have used any team with substantially less talent than LSU had and the point would still stand.

 

How much of Russell's numbers were based on how much talent he had around him?

 

We're getting to a different subject here - I agree with you that JMR was aided by a good team (but scouts don't look at just how he does against a porous ND defense while LSU has many other NFL caliber offensive players). As I've already said, I'm not the biggest JMR fan. Just stating he didn't come out of nowhere.

 

That doesn't change the fact that JMR was a probable first rounder during the regular college football season and a potential top-10 pick right before the Sugar Bowl.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

unless someone trades in before 31, i think Quinn will be there :shock:

 

Dallas, Jacksonville and Baltimore are the biggest threats to take him before then I think.

 

I wouldn't consider Dallas a serious threat for taking Quinn, I think if anything they're bluffing and trying to get someone to trade up with them.

 

I disagree. Quinn reeks of a pick Jerry Jones would make.

[texascub]

unless someone trades in before 31, i think Quinn will be there :shock:

 

Dallas, Jacksonville and Baltimore are the biggest threats to take him before then I think.

 

I wouldn't consider Dallas a serious threat for taking Quinn, I think if anything they're bluffing and trying to get someone to trade up with them.

 

Jerry Jones likes him some big names though, so I'm leaving that as a possibility.

 

He does, but so far he has been really committed to Tony Romo being the QB of the future. From his comments leading up to the draft, I get the feeling we're looking at a CB.

[texascub]

With the 18th selection in the 2007 NFL Draft, the Cincinnati Bengals take Leon Hall CB Michigan. Great value there.

[soccer10k]

 

Obviously people who follow college football knew about him - he went to LS-freaking-U. Of course people are going to know about him. What are you going to tell me next, they knew about Brady Quinn too?

 

Yes I've been following the discussion hence the reason I'm posting. Soul was obviously exaggerating when he said that Russell was "literally nowhere". I don't think Russell was a first round pick before the Sugar Bowl.

 

And if saying Quinn was #1 before the Sugar Bowl means nothing is absolutely absurd. You're the one bringing up what scouts thought of Russell for the past few years.

 

You aren't following. I'm saying they knew of his as a big-time draft prospect. Which you apparently didn't.

 

How can you exaggerate and use the word literally in a sentence. Think about that for a minute.

 

Quinn being No. 1 before the draft proves that pre-work out draft boards are meaningless. Because Russell wasn't on them at some arbitrary point during the season doesn't mean that scouts were sleeping on him and he just skyrocketed out of nowhere.

 

I knew about Russell as a solid prospect. He was not a "big time prospect" which I would define as a top 10 or 15 pick i.e. a sure first rounder. He didn't get close to that level until the Sugar Bowl.

 

And if pre-work out draft boards are meaningless then what does that say about what people thought about his pro prospects coming out of high school - which you brought into the discussion to defend Russell? Wouldn't those be even more meaningless?

 

You're really reaching here. Pre workout draft boards are meaningless because they fluctuate so much from that time until draft day. Keeping up with who has pro potential coming out of high school is an important part of team's scouting. There's no connection.

 

How am I reaching? If draft boards measuring a player's pro potential before their workout is meaningless, so should every other draft board before the pre draft workout.

 

Sorry, I think I used the wrong terminology and threw you off. I meant pre-work out mock drafts. Things like NFL draft countdown, Kiper's big board, stuff like that.

 

I mean that trying to slot who is going where and who is better than who in November means nothing, because those players haven't ever had individual work outs in front of NFL eyes, things change so quick.

 

When you're looking at a freshman QB and saying "he could be a special one in 3 years" isn't the same as saying "this guy will go No. 1 to Oakland" in August. You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

Ok. I get what you're saying now with regards to the last paragraph.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Hall goes off the board.

[Butterscup1679666578]

I bet Bengals fans are pumped they landed Hall.