Santo Doesn't Make the HOF by 5 Votes

[Magnetic Curses]

i don't know what the hold-up is on this guy. equal to brooks robinson defensively and far superior offensively. i guess the fact that brooks played with very good players makes him somehow much better than ronnie.

[CuseCubFan69]

i don't know what the hold-up is on this guy. equal to brooks robinson defensively and far superior offensively. i guess the fact that brooks played with very good players makes him somehow much better than ronnie.

 

Welcome to the real world sully!

 

I was pretty young when those guys were playing and Brooks had some defining moments in big games that helped his image along with having better players beside him.

[Backtobanks]

i don't know what the hold-up is on this guy. equal to brooks robinson defensively and far superior offensively. i guess the fact that brooks played with very good players makes him somehow much better than ronnie.

 

They need to change the voting system. I think they need to make it more like the NFL. For the regular voting make it the top three vote getters with a minimum of 60% of the votes cast. With the veterans, the top two vote getters get in period.

[Magnetic Curses]

i don't know what the hold-up is on this guy. equal to brooks robinson defensively and far superior offensively. i guess the fact that brooks played with very good players makes him somehow much better than ronnie.

 

Welcome to the real world sully!

 

I was pretty young when those guys were playing and Brooks had some defining moments in big games that helped his image along with having better players beside him.

 

it's all perception vs. reality. because brooks made those high profile plays, he was perceived as being the best 3rd baseman of all time when he might not even crack the top 10.

[abuck1220]

With the veterans, the top two vote getters get in period.

 

that would lead to some really mediocre players getting in.

[BeerHere]

I hope Ron get in.

 

 

 

Chip and Stoney would be among the first to call him.

[CuseCubFan69]

i don't know what the hold-up is on this guy. equal to brooks robinson defensively and far superior offensively. i guess the fact that brooks played with very good players makes him somehow much better than ronnie.

 

Welcome to the real world sully!

 

I was pretty young when those guys were playing and Brooks had some defining moments in big games that helped his image along with having better players beside him.

 

it's all perception vs. reality. because brooks made those high profile plays, he was perceived as being the best 3rd baseman of all time when he might not even crack the top 10.

 

But guys that won the Championship have always got the benefit over other players that are comparable in all the Sports Hall of Fames. I don't think it's right but it always happens.

[mordecaibrown]

Long time reader, first post.......

 

I love Ron Santo but I think he will not get in because;

 

1. New York writers hate him with a passion, and paint a picture that he was the second best third baseman in a really weak third base class.

 

2. Believe it or not, Cubs support has never been 100% strong for Santo. I was told by a former Cub that up until recent years a lot of former Cubs held a grudge against Santo for the fact that during his playing career he showed up teammates behind close doors and also to media. He would always blame someone for loses and that rubbed people the wrong way. Being the spokesman for the late 60's and 70's Cubs, he had a tough relationship with baseball writers and those writers blacklisted him

 

3. Unless you are a Cub fan, you never realize how good a ball player Santo truly was. Numbers only get you so far when it comes to the hall of fame, you have to have a signature moment to get votes.

[Laura]

Welcome to the forums!

 

Bruce Miles mentions in the same article that Vance quotes above:

 

The Veterans Committee is under intense pressure to elect a candidate after failing to do so in 2003 and 2005. Speculation is that if the Hall of Fame players, broadcasters and writers who make up the committee don’t elect someone this year, the committee will be disbanded.

 

Santo and the late Gil Hodges fell 8 votes short of election in 2005. Tony Oliva is the other living candidate considered to have the best shot at election after Santo.

[CuseCubFan69]

Long time reader, first post.......

 

I love Ron Santo but I think he will not get in because;

 

1. New York writers hate him with a passion, and paint a picture that he was the second best third baseman in a really weak third base class.

 

2. Believe it or not, Cubs support has never been 100% strong for Santo. I was told by a former Cub that up until recent years a lot of former Cubs held a grudge against Santo for the fact that during his playing career he showed up teammates behind close doors and also to media. He would always blame someone for loses and that rubbed people the wrong way. Being the spokesman for the late 60's and 70's Cubs, he had a tough relationship with baseball writers and those writers blacklisted him

 

3. Unless you are a Cub fan, you never realize how good a ball player Santo truly was. Numbers only get you so far when it comes to the hall of fame, you have to have a signature moment to get votes.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

That's a big pet peeve for me, how the writers like a guy or not. You would hope these guys would be professionals and be able to separate that but in many cases they are bitter little jealous men who hold grudges instead of doing their jobs as they are suppose to do, especially NY press guys.

 

I didn't realize the little behind the doors story regarding Santo and his teammates. Rons seems to be a pretty emotional guy and I think it's possible he may have said things when he was in an emotional state.

[goonys evil twin]

Long time reader, first post.......

 

I love Ron Santo but I think he will not get in because;

 

1. New York writers hate him with a passion, and paint a picture that he was the second best third baseman in a really weak third base class.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

That's a big pet peeve for me, how the writers like a guy or not. You would hope these guys would be professionals and be able to separate that but in many cases they are bitter little jealous men who hold grudges instead of doing their jobs as they are suppose to do, especially NY press guys.

 

Are the writers even involved with Santo's chances anymore? I thought it was all veterans' committee at this point, ie. HOF players.

[mordecaibrown]

I think that writers are out at this point, but I was trying to imply that Santo needs media support because his numbers won't blow anyone away. Outside of Chicago and SABR writers he has very little support and not winning anything makes him a forgotten man, like what Andre Dawson faces in his Hall chances

[CuseCubFan69]

Long time reader, first post.......

 

I love Ron Santo but I think he will not get in because;

 

1. New York writers hate him with a passion, and paint a picture that he was the second best third baseman in a really weak third base class.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

That's a big pet peeve for me, how the writers like a guy or not. You would hope these guys would be professionals and be able to separate that but in many cases they are bitter little jealous men who hold grudges instead of doing their jobs as they are suppose to do, especially NY press guys.

 

Are the writers even involved with Santo's chances anymore? I thought it was all veterans' committee at this point, ie. HOF players.

 

They were the ones that stopped him in the first place....those are the guys I was talking about. You're probably right that most of them are gone.

[goonys evil twin]

Long time reader, first post.......

 

I love Ron Santo but I think he will not get in because;

 

1. New York writers hate him with a passion, and paint a picture that he was the second best third baseman in a really weak third base class.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

That's a big pet peeve for me, how the writers like a guy or not. You would hope these guys would be professionals and be able to separate that but in many cases they are bitter little jealous men who hold grudges instead of doing their jobs as they are suppose to do, especially NY press guys.

 

Are the writers even involved with Santo's chances anymore? I thought it was all veterans' committee at this point, ie. HOF players.

 

They were the ones that stopped him in the first place....those are the guys I was talking about. You're probably right that most of them are gone.

 

Even then, it's a bit of a stretch to blame NY writers. The voters are from all over the country.

[mordecaibrown]

New York is so very strong, and have the most influence over media. They are the wrong guys to cross. Most HOF votes come from the east coast, just like the Hesiman and any other major award. Chicago writers(60's and 70's) hated Santo also, until recently when he has become the "lovable loser" which they always paint him as.

[CuseCubFan69]

Long time reader, first post.......

 

I love Ron Santo but I think he will not get in because;

 

1. New York writers hate him with a passion, and paint a picture that he was the second best third baseman in a really weak third base class.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

That's a big pet peeve for me, how the writers like a guy or not. You would hope these guys would be professionals and be able to separate that but in many cases they are bitter little jealous men who hold grudges instead of doing their jobs as they are suppose to do, especially NY press guys.

 

Are the writers even involved with Santo's chances anymore? I thought it was all veterans' committee at this point, ie. HOF players.

 

They were the ones that stopped him in the first place....those are the guys I was talking about. You're probably right that most of them are gone.

 

Even then, it's a bit of a stretch to blame NY writers. The voters are from all over the country.

 

I agree it's not just the NY press that stopped him but they are the #1 pushers in making a mega story and if they have a hardon for somebodythey blast the living heck of them.

[oldstyle81]

its not even the writers anymore, its the players

 

what time is it getting announced, 1pm?

[CuseCubFan69]

its not even the writers anymore, its the players

 

what time is it getting announced, 1pm?

 

I think we all realize that but if they keep writing negative things about Santo is it possible that the veterans commitee could buy into that?

[mordecaibrown]

If you guys want to get into players, that is even a tougher road for Ron. Thanks to Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench and other self-righteous ex-players still trying to make themselves relevant in baseball.

 

The Big Red Machine is the soul reason Santo has not been voted in by the VC.

[CuseCubFan69]

If you guys want to get into players, that is even a tougher road for Ron. Thanks to Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench and other self-righteous ex-players still trying to make themselves relevant in baseball.

 

The Big Red Machine is the soul reason Santo has not been voted in by the VC.

 

I'm curious, how many players from that team are in the Hall? Now, if it's close to what the Cubs have I wonder if it's possible they are a little annoyed that a crappy Cub team could possibly have as many guys in the Hall as they do. Let's see....Bench, Morgan, Perez while the Cubs have Jenkins and Williams, correct?

[oldstyle81]

If you guys want to get into players, that is even a tougher road for Ron. Thanks to Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench and other self-righteous ex-players still trying to make themselves relevant in baseball.

 

The Big Red Machine is the soul reason Santo has not been voted in by the VC.

 

Unless Bench has turned and now hates him, i cant see how he wouldnt vote for him

 

didnt joe morgam say in this old cub that he has voted for him

[mordecaibrown]

If you believe Joe Morgan???

 

Joe Morgan is the Bill Clinton of baseball, he should really be in politics

[UMFan83]

I don't feel great about his chances, but I'm pullin for ya Ronny.

[RedIvyCub]

I'm not sure how on God's green earth a rational person with even a rudimentary understanding of stats can look at Ron Santo's career and not see a Hall of Fame induction. I doubt he gets in as well.

 

Plain and simple...it isn't just about numbers. If Ron had been nicer to beat writers when he was a player, he would have been in way before now. Trust me...beat writers hold grudges...right, Bruce? :wink:

[Electron Blue]

If you believe Joe Morgan???

 

Joe Morgan is the Bill Clinton of baseball, he should really be in politics

 

Oh puh-leeze. You're comparing Bill Clinton to the man who invented the double play as we know it today? :)