Are there any more transactions coming?

[Sammy Sofa]

You don't have to worry about any of this. There is no such deal being discussed.

How do you know that for sure? No offense, but I doubt Hendry tells reporters all the deals that he's discussing.

 

OK. Believe what you will. I think my track record holds up pretty well.

 

No offence, but the last thing I consider is your track record. I don't care. I care about the Cubs making themselves better.

 

It may be all BS, but maybe not. I'm only reporting what my buddy told me.

 

Either he's all wet, or you are.

 

Time will define the truth of the matter.

 

How can you not consider somebody's track record? Aren't track records the only thing we really have to go on? Has your imaginary friend given you good info before? If so, what? If not, why would you believe him? Sorry to butt in, but I've been coming here a couple years and Bruce never starts unsubstantiated rumors, and it's pretty irritating when jealous a-holes give him crap.

 

Totally uncalled for.

 

I agree with Bruce here, but that's no reason to insult anyone.

[CUBZ99]

You mean the Cubs should have vastly overspent the other bidders for Daisuke, tampered with Drew, and picked up a solid SS?

 

Sounds like 20/20 hindsight to me. Even the Yankees couldn't outbid the Sox for Daisuke. The only reason the allegations about Drew haven't been pursued is the Dodgers talked with Manny when they weren't supposed to.

 

Lugo is a good player. I wanted him as well.

 

I can't complain about our offseason too much. I was afraid Hendry was going to trade quality prospects for one year rental types (Jennings, Suzuki, etc). If we'd have missed the WS for the next 2 years, it would have seriously hurt our farm system.

 

20/20 hindsight? Are you kidding me? It was Tim that suggested Daisuke. I wanted Schmidt. I would have been fine with Daisuke, but I wanted Schmidt, Drew, Lugo and whatever pieces and parts Hendry could get.

 

There is nothing hindsight about what I wanted going into the offseason.

 

I think Hendry did alright. However, I'm not sure if he did enough. He spent money like crazy. But, spending money like crazy isn't going to win you a World Series. Spending money on needs while focusing on the direction of the club is what builds a winner.

 

This team has no direction. None.

 

They spent 136m for an outfielder and they have no idea where he's going to play. They spent how much on Marquis, and there is no guarantee he'll be better than the 8th or 9th best rotation option in 2007. They haven't extended the most important player to this team, Carlos Zambrano. They really gambled with DeRosa. He's been strictly a super sub, which would have been a great thing for him in Chicago, but Hendry gave him starter money and a starting job. I hope it works, but it's quite a gamble. He doesn't have a clue what to do with Jacque Jones.

 

Great, they went out and spent a bunch of money. But, they didn't go out and spend it with any direction.

 

BBB -- you and Tim make some real valid points, and I agree with your final analysis, however, your assumptions have to be based upon the fact that Hendry could have signed any of those players.

 

1. Daisuke -- According to reports Hendry bid Approx $20MM for a guy that has a lot of mileage on his arm and no MLB experience. Who would have guessed that the winning bid would have been $51MM and how many people would have been calling him an idiot for spending a minimum of $51MM on an unproven pitcher? Also, lets see how Daisuke works out before we all hail Boston's efforts in obtaining him. It is possible that he may not be anything more than a #5 starter, in which case Boston severely overpaid.

 

2. Schmidt -- Who wouldn't have loved to see him on the Cubs? I have seen no indication at all, that Schmidt was even interested in coming to the Cubs. From all reports, he was only interested in signing with a west coast team (SF, Seattle). According to Kaplan (WGN), Schmidt's agent wouldn't even give Hendry the time of day. You can fault Hendry for a lot of things, but you can't fault him for Schmidt not wanting to play for a team not on the west coast.

 

3. Drew -- Did the Cubs even have a realistic chance with Drew? It is possible that he had his mind made up to go to Boston no matter what.

 

4. All others (Lugo, etc...) -- It is not beyond imagination that players would rather play for a team they feel is better. I know us fans like to think that every player in baseball would love to play for the Cubs , but that is not reality.

 

Sometimes there are things beyond any GM's control. It is possible that Hendry did the best he could, with what he had to work with. Soriano was a huge addition to the offense and a major upgrade over Juan Pierre. Lilly was an upgrade over most of our starting pitching from last year, and in the NL could turn out to be a bargain. Ward and Floyd signings helped shore up a pathetic bench from last year.

 

Overall, the offseason wasn't tremendous, but it wasnt' a complete failure either. If anything, this offseason proved that you probably can't go out and buy World Series team. You must be able to produce some of your own talent.

[NCCubFan]

How can you not consider somebody's track record? Aren't track records the only thing we really have to go on? Has your imaginary friend given you good info before? If so, what? If not, why would you believe him? Sorry to butt in, but I've been coming here a couple years and Bruce never starts unsubstantiated rumors, and it's pretty irritating when jealous a-holes give him crap.

Watch it; personal attacks aren't permitted on this site.

[Illini Iceman]

You don't have to worry about any of this. There is no such deal being discussed.

How do you know that for sure? No offense, but I doubt Hendry tells reporters all the deals that he's discussing.

 

OK. Believe what you will. I think my track record holds up pretty well.

 

No offence, but the last thing I consider is your track record. I don't care. I care about the Cubs making themselves better.

 

It may be all BS, but maybe not. I'm only reporting what my buddy told me.

 

Either he's all wet, or you are.

 

Time will define the truth of the matter.

 

That is one of the most illogical comments I have ever read.

[BigbadB]

We have a few quality arms that are 0-2 seasons away from making it. Pie and Patterson won't be stars, IMO, but they'll be quality regulars. Murton is a quality regular.

 

Our system is just starting to produce and with Wilken at the helm, it will improve big time.

 

Prospects are far more valuable than money. You can always print more money. You can't get the prospects back you traded away.

 

Ichiro is not available. ARod is not available. Miguel Cabrera is not available. Tejada isn't available for Prior and some prospects.

 

I don't see any of the other teams swinging deals for those players - and some of those orgs have prospects to spare. We don't.

 

All-stars aren't available for B+ prospects (Pie, Patterson) and some cash.

 

Why would the O's trade Tejada for prospects? Believe it or not, they're trying to contend too. It would take a stud major leaguer (i.e. Prior last season) and then some.

 

Hendry can't work miracles with what isn't there. It's not fantasy baseball where you get to con some schmuck into a lopsided deal.

 

You like to take the stance that none of the players currently on the Cubs were players that the Cubs might have had a chance to sign or trade for. As if the only deals Hendry makes are the only deals he had any chance to make. That's fine if you think along those lines, but I certainly don't.

 

While you can give your list of reasons for each player I list that could have been Cubs, I'm just using examples. My examples of what would have improved the Cubs are just about endless. I could go back a few years and include Carlos Beltran, Vladmir Guerrero, Miguel Tejada when they were free agents themselves.

 

I'm not the one who was standing at a podium announcing to the world that I was going to bring a World Series to the north side of Chicago. Jim Hendry did that. If he can be so bold to make that prediction, then he better back up his words with moves that will get the team there. Soriano was a pretty good score. Outside of Soriano, the moves he made were pretty generic. I'll give him credit for re-signing Aramis as well, just so you don't think I'm all gloom and doom.

 

The lack of direction is quite real. The farm system has gone from being one of the best in the league to below average. The team itself has gone from 1st to worst. This is also very real.

 

But, the thing that really makes me disrespect anything you have to say about this is when you sit there and tell me or someone else that this isn't fantasy baseball. What, do you think I'm some little kid who is watching baseball for the first time? I'm 43 years old and have been watching Cub baseball religiously since 1971.

 

Our opinions don't have to agree to have a mature and respectful debate. You don't have to drag insults into it to make your point. If the team didn't have the resources to go out and build a World Series team, maybe THEY shouldn't have been standing in front of a podium announcing to the world they would go out and get the players necessary to win. The team, as it is currently constructed, isn't any better than some of the other teams in the NL.

 

You might feel that Cesar Izturis (a guy who has played a total of less than a season of baseball over the last two years and whose numbers have plummeted) is the SS that can take us to the promised land, but I don't. You might feel that Greg Maddux for Cesar Izturis was a good trade. Personally, I think we got better for Todd Walker.

 

The problems of Jim Hendry extend beyond what he did this offseason. He had problems in previous seasons as well. When you compound the problems from year to year, the end product will suffer, which is exactly what we are seeing now.

 

Would Miguel Tejada, Vladmir Guerrero or Carlos Beltran have turned down 8/136? Probably not. Each is either a better overall player than Soriano, or performs above and beyond their position of need.

 

Agree or disagree. But, please leave the "this isn't fantasy baseball" crap out of your argument to keep this a respectful debate. I respect your opinion even though I don't agree with it.

[BigbadB]

BBB -- you and Tim make some real valid points, and I agree with your final analysis, however, your assumptions have to be based upon the fact that Hendry could have signed any of those players.

 

1. Daisuke -- According to reports Hendry bid Approx $20MM for a guy that has a lot of mileage on his arm and no MLB experience. Who would have guessed that the winning bid would have been $51MM and how many people would have been calling him an idiot for spending a minimum of $51MM on an unproven pitcher? Also, lets see how Daisuke works out before we all hail Boston's efforts in obtaining him. It is possible that he may not be anything more than a #5 starter, in which case Boston severely overpaid.

 

2. Schmidt -- Who wouldn't have loved to see him on the Cubs? I have seen no indication at all, that Schmidt was even interested in coming to the Cubs. From all reports, he was only interested in signing with a west coast team (SF, Seattle). According to Kaplan (WGN), Schmidt's agent wouldn't even give Hendry the time of day. You can fault Hendry for a lot of things, but you can't fault him for Schmidt not wanting to play for a team not on the west coast.

 

3. Drew -- Did the Cubs even have a realistic chance with Drew? It is possible that he had his mind made up to go to Boston no matter what.

 

4. All others (Lugo, etc...) -- It is not beyond imagination that players would rather play for a team they feel is better. I know us fans like to think that every player in baseball would love to play for the Cubs , but that is not reality.

 

Sometimes there are things beyond any GM's control. It is possible that Hendry did the best he could, with what he had to work with. Soriano was a huge addition to the offense and a major upgrade over Juan Pierre. Lilly was an upgrade over most of our starting pitching from last year, and in the NL could turn out to be a bargain. Ward and Floyd signings helped shore up a pathetic bench from last year.

 

Overall, the offseason wasn't tremendous, but it wasnt' a complete failure either. If anything, this offseason proved that you probably can't go out and buy World Series team. You must be able to produce some of your own talent.

 

I agree that there are things beyond a GM's control. But, some of those things that are now beyond the GM's control are things that could have been within the control of the GM prior to lapses in judgment.

 

For example, last year Greg Maddux was traded for Cesar Izturis. I'm sorry, but if that's the best the Dodgers have to offer for Maddux, I'd have let Maddux finish the season as a Cub. Just how valuable was Izturis to the Dodgers? They already had Kent and Furcal in the middle infield, and had already traded for Julio Lugo. Izturis was bench fodder. Hendry didn't play hardball. He caved like an umbrella in a wind storm.

 

Maybe Hendry couldn't have gotten LaRoche or Elbert or Kemp, but I wouldn't have just given Maddux away for nothing. Especially to the Dodgers. The Dodgers stuck it to the Cubs hard last year, and Hendry probably shouldn't have even talked to the Dodgers about Maddux. Furcal, Nomar and Milton Bradley all come to mind as guys that the Dodgers stuck it to the Cubs with last year, though Nomar was Hendry's own fault. Add Maddux to the list.

 

Let's evaluate this Maddux deal with a few other deals that happened in the NL West.

 

July 22- Fabian Jimenez and Joel Santo for Scott Williamson

July 31- Jose Ceda for Todd Walker

July 31- Maddux to the Dodgers for Cesar Izturis

July 31- Sergio Pedroza and Joel Guzman to Tampa for Julio Lugo

August 31- David Wells to Padres and George Kotteras to Red Sox.

 

Wells netted the best Padres prospect in their system.

Guzman was a top prospect in the Dodgers system.

Jimenez, Santo and Ceda is a decent return for Williamson and Walker.

Maddux was traded for the Dodgers 25th man.

 

Sorry, I went off on a bit of a tangent with Maddux. I'm still very upset with that deal. The point is the direction of this team has been nonexistent for awhile now. I don't know if it's because Hendry trusted others to help him find direction or what the exact problem is, but to resolve the lack of direction, Hendry just blindly throws money at the problem hoping it will solve the problem.

[Backtobanks]

We have a few quality arms that are 0-2 seasons away from making it. Pie and Patterson won't be stars, IMO, but they'll be quality regulars. Murton is a quality regular.

 

Our system is just starting to produce and with Wilken at the helm, it will improve big time.

 

Prospects are far more valuable than money. You can always print more money. You can't get the prospects back you traded away.

 

Ichiro is not available. ARod is not available. Miguel Cabrera is not available. Tejada isn't available for Prior and some prospects.

 

I don't see any of the other teams swinging deals for those players - and some of those orgs have prospects to spare. We don't.

 

All-stars aren't available for B+ prospects (Pie, Patterson) and some cash.

 

Why would the O's trade Tejada for prospects? Believe it or not, they're trying to contend too. It would take a stud major leaguer (i.e. Prior last season) and then some.

 

Hendry can't work miracles with what isn't there. It's not fantasy baseball where you get to con some schmuck into a lopsided deal.

 

You like to take the stance that none of the players currently on the Cubs were players that the Cubs might have had a chance to sign or trade for. As if the only deals Hendry makes are the only deals he had any chance to make. That's fine if you think along those lines, but I certainly don't.

 

While you can give your list of reasons for each player I list that could have been Cubs, I'm just using examples. My examples of what would have improved the Cubs are just about endless. I could go back a few years and include Carlos Beltran, Vladmir Guerrero, Miguel Tejada when they were free agents themselves.

 

I'm not the one who was standing at a podium announcing to the world that I was going to bring a World Series to the north side of Chicago. Jim Hendry did that. If he can be so bold to make that prediction, then he better back up his words with moves that will get the team there. Soriano was a pretty good score. Outside of Soriano, the moves he made were pretty generic. I'll give him credit for re-signing Aramis as well, just so you don't think I'm all gloom and doom.

 

The lack of direction is quite real. The farm system has gone from being one of the best in the league to below average. The team itself has gone from 1st to worst. This is also very real.

 

But, the thing that really makes me disrespect anything you have to say about this is when you sit there and tell me or someone else that this isn't fantasy baseball. What, do you think I'm some little kid who is watching baseball for the first time? I'm 43 years old and have been watching Cub baseball religiously since 1971.

 

Our opinions don't have to agree to have a mature and respectful debate. You don't have to drag insults into it to make your point. If the team didn't have the resources to go out and build a World Series team, maybe THEY shouldn't have been standing in front of a podium announcing to the world they would go out and get the players necessary to win. The team, as it is currently constructed, isn't any better than some of the other teams in the NL.

 

You might feel that Cesar Izturis (a guy who has played a total of less than a season of baseball over the last two years and whose numbers have plummeted) is the SS that can take us to the promised land, but I don't. You might feel that Greg Maddux for Cesar Izturis was a good trade. Personally, I think we got better for Todd Walker.

 

The problems of Jim Hendry extend beyond what he did this offseason. He had problems in previous seasons as well. When you compound the problems from year to year, the end product will suffer, which is exactly what we are seeing now.

 

Would Miguel Tejada, Vladmir Guerrero or Carlos Beltran have turned down 8/136? Probably not. Each is either a better overall player than Soriano, or performs above and beyond their position of need.

 

Agree or disagree. But, please leave the "this isn't fantasy baseball" crap out of your argument to keep this a respectful debate. I respect your opinion even though I don't agree with it.

 

I tend to agree with beast more than you on most points. All of us love to discuss imaginary trades, but the bottom line is that it takes two teams (or more) to make a trade. Some posters point out that we have mediocre players and a weak farm system yet talk about trading these below average players for All Stars. As for Tejada, Guerrero, or Beltran turning down 8/136, the answer is that Hendry didn't have that money when Guerrero and Beltran were available so the question is moot. Posting on NSBB is great, but some posters would find fault with Hendry if he signed the reincarnations of Babe Ruth and Walter Johnson.

[RichHillIsABeast]

We have a few quality arms that are 0-2 seasons away from making it. Pie and Patterson won't be stars, IMO, but they'll be quality regulars. Murton is a quality regular.

 

Our system is just starting to produce and with Wilken at the helm, it will improve big time.

 

Prospects are far more valuable than money. You can always print more money. You can't get the prospects back you traded away.

 

Ichiro is not available. ARod is not available. Miguel Cabrera is not available. Tejada isn't available for Prior and some prospects.

 

I don't see any of the other teams swinging deals for those players - and some of those orgs have prospects to spare. We don't.

 

All-stars aren't available for B+ prospects (Pie, Patterson) and some cash.

 

Why would the O's trade Tejada for prospects? Believe it or not, they're trying to contend too. It would take a stud major leaguer (i.e. Prior last season) and then some.

 

Hendry can't work miracles with what isn't there. It's not fantasy baseball where you get to con some schmuck into a lopsided deal.

 

You like to take the stance that none of the players currently on the Cubs were players that the Cubs might have had a chance to sign or trade for. As if the only deals Hendry makes are the only deals he had any chance to make. That's fine if you think along those lines, but I certainly don't.

 

While you can give your list of reasons for each player I list that could have been Cubs, I'm just using examples. My examples of what would have improved the Cubs are just about endless. I could go back a few years and include Carlos Beltran, Vladmir Guerrero, Miguel Tejada when they were free agents themselves.

 

I'm not the one who was standing at a podium announcing to the world that I was going to bring a World Series to the north side of Chicago. Jim Hendry did that. If he can be so bold to make that prediction, then he better back up his words with moves that will get the team there. Soriano was a pretty good score. Outside of Soriano, the moves he made were pretty generic. I'll give him credit for re-signing Aramis as well, just so you don't think I'm all gloom and doom.

 

The lack of direction is quite real. The farm system has gone from being one of the best in the league to below average. The team itself has gone from 1st to worst. This is also very real.

 

But, the thing that really makes me disrespect anything you have to say about this is when you sit there and tell me or someone else that this isn't fantasy baseball. What, do you think I'm some little kid who is watching baseball for the first time? I'm 43 years old and have been watching Cub baseball religiously since 1971.

 

Our opinions don't have to agree to have a mature and respectful debate. You don't have to drag insults into it to make your point. If the team didn't have the resources to go out and build a World Series team, maybe THEY shouldn't have been standing in front of a podium announcing to the world they would go out and get the players necessary to win. The team, as it is currently constructed, isn't any better than some of the other teams in the NL.

 

You might feel that Cesar Izturis (a guy who has played a total of less than a season of baseball over the last two years and whose numbers have plummeted) is the SS that can take us to the promised land, but I don't. You might feel that Greg Maddux for Cesar Izturis was a good trade. Personally, I think we got better for Todd Walker.

 

The problems of Jim Hendry extend beyond what he did this offseason. He had problems in previous seasons as well. When you compound the problems from year to year, the end product will suffer, which is exactly what we are seeing now.

 

Would Miguel Tejada, Vladmir Guerrero or Carlos Beltran have turned down 8/136? Probably not. Each is either a better overall player than Soriano, or performs above and beyond their position of need.

 

Agree or disagree. But, please leave the "this isn't fantasy baseball" crap out of your argument to keep this a respectful debate. I respect your opinion even though I don't agree with it.

 

Saying we should trade for the likes of Ichiro, ARod, Tejada, etc is not a tenable theory. None of those players are currently available for any package we're likely to offer.

 

I was all for getting the likes of Tejada, Guerrero, or Beltran, but the Trib Co didn't want it enough to be competitive in those markets. Hendry can't outbid anyone if they don't open the purse strings. They finally did and whallah - Soriano in Wrigley.

 

Maddux for Izturis was a fine trade considering the other options. What offers were out there that were better? Hendry asked for prospects and was denied. Should we have held onto Maddux for the second half of a dismal season?

 

Our farm system isn't "below average." It produced the likes of Murton and Hill. Have you checked out Wilken's draft record? We're going to be producing ML talent consistently from here on out.

 

Hendry snagged Wilken. Hendry signed Soriano. Hendry re-signed Ramirez. Hendry extended DLee.

 

We're looking pretty solid in the short-term and our future doesn't look too bad with Wilken running the drafts. Has the last 2 years been fun? Nope, but things are about to get a lot better even if they aren't perfect at this moment.

 

What team had a better offseason than we did? Boston? That's one team that's not even in our league, let alone our division.

[CubColtPacer]

BBB -- you and Tim make some real valid points, and I agree with your final analysis, however, your assumptions have to be based upon the fact that Hendry could have signed any of those players.

 

1. Daisuke -- According to reports Hendry bid Approx $20MM for a guy that has a lot of mileage on his arm and no MLB experience. Who would have guessed that the winning bid would have been $51MM and how many people would have been calling him an idiot for spending a minimum of $51MM on an unproven pitcher? Also, lets see how Daisuke works out before we all hail Boston's efforts in obtaining him. It is possible that he may not be anything more than a #5 starter, in which case Boston severely overpaid.

 

2. Schmidt -- Who wouldn't have loved to see him on the Cubs? I have seen no indication at all, that Schmidt was even interested in coming to the Cubs. From all reports, he was only interested in signing with a west coast team (SF, Seattle). According to Kaplan (WGN), Schmidt's agent wouldn't even give Hendry the time of day. You can fault Hendry for a lot of things, but you can't fault him for Schmidt not wanting to play for a team not on the west coast.

 

3. Drew -- Did the Cubs even have a realistic chance with Drew? It is possible that he had his mind made up to go to Boston no matter what.

 

4. All others (Lugo, etc...) -- It is not beyond imagination that players would rather play for a team they feel is better. I know us fans like to think that every player in baseball would love to play for the Cubs , but that is not reality.

 

Sometimes there are things beyond any GM's control. It is possible that Hendry did the best he could, with what he had to work with. Soriano was a huge addition to the offense and a major upgrade over Juan Pierre. Lilly was an upgrade over most of our starting pitching from last year, and in the NL could turn out to be a bargain. Ward and Floyd signings helped shore up a pathetic bench from last year.

 

Overall, the offseason wasn't tremendous, but it wasnt' a complete failure either. If anything, this offseason proved that you probably can't go out and buy World Series team. You must be able to produce some of your own talent.

 

I agree that there are things beyond a GM's control. But, some of those things that are now beyond the GM's control are things that could have been within the control of the GM prior to lapses in judgment.

 

For example, last year Greg Maddux was traded for Cesar Izturis. I'm sorry, but if that's the best the Dodgers have to offer for Maddux, I'd have let Maddux finish the season as a Cub. Just how valuable was Izturis to the Dodgers? They already had Kent and Furcal in the middle infield, and had already traded for Julio Lugo. Izturis was bench fodder. Hendry didn't play hardball. He caved like an umbrella in a wind storm.

 

A complete nitpick-the Dodgers didn't trade for Lugo until right after the Izturis deal was done, and they were starting him everyday after he came back from his inury. So at the time of that deal, he was a starter for him, although struggling mightily trying to come back from the major surgery.

Edited February 3, 2007 by CubColtPacer

[BigbadB]

Our farm system isn't "below average." It produced the likes of Murton and Hill. Have you checked out Wilken's draft record? We're going to be producing ML talent consistently from here on out.

 

Murton was a product of the Red Sox, not the Cubs.

 

I hope Wilken turns things around, but the Cubs farm system is currently below average.

[BigbadB]

A complete nitpick-the Dodgers didn't trade for Lugo until right after the Izturis deal was done, and they were starting him everyday before his inury. So at the time of that deal, he was a starter for him, although struggling mightily trying to come back from the major surgery.

 

You are correct. For some reason I thought they were both there at the same time for a short period.

 

But, it doesn't change the fact the Dodgers took Hendry for a ride on that deal.

[Yestheydo]

You don't have to worry about any of this. There is no such deal being discussed.

How do you know that for sure? No offense, but I doubt Hendry tells reporters all the deals that he's discussing.

 

OK. Believe what you will. I think my track record holds up pretty well.

 

No offence, but the last thing I consider is your track record. I don't care. I care about the Cubs making themselves better.

 

It may be all BS, but maybe not. I'm only reporting what my buddy told me.

 

Either he's all wet, or you are.

 

Time will define the truth of the matter.

 

How can you not consider somebody's track record? Aren't track records the only thing we really have to go on? Has your imaginary friend given you good info before? If so, what? If not, why would you believe him? Sorry to butt in, but I've been coming here a couple years and Bruce never starts unsubstantiated rumors, and it's pretty irritating when jealous a-holes give him crap.

 

Totally uncalled for.

 

I agree with Bruce here, but that's no reason to insult anyone.

Sorry about that; I got carried away.

[CUBZ99]

A complete nitpick-the Dodgers didn't trade for Lugo until right after the Izturis deal was done, and they were starting him everyday before his inury. So at the time of that deal, he was a starter for him, although struggling mightily trying to come back from the major surgery.

 

You are correct. For some reason I thought they were both there at the same time for a short period.

 

But, it doesn't change the fact the Dodgers took Hendry for a ride on that deal.

 

I agree that Hendry probably got taken to the cleaners on the Maddux deal, but there is no way to find out until we see what a healthy Izturis is capable of. Sometimes Hendry's hunches pay off, like with Barrett. Sometimes they don't, like with Pierre, Neifi, Hairston.

 

If he plays gold glove SS this year and has a .330ish OBP I think the trade will look much better.

[SAMMYWHO]

Our farm system isn't "below average." It produced the likes of Murton and Hill. Have you checked out Wilken's draft record? We're going to be producing ML talent consistently from here on out.

 

Murton was a product of the Red Sox, not the Cubs.

 

I hope Wilken turns things around, but the Cubs farm system is currently below average.

 

I don't understand. 10 yrs from now hopefully no one will remember where Murton was drafted. They'll remember where he made his name. Is Ryne Sandberg a Phillie? I agree with your posts most of the time but Hendry picked Murton out of a million. He does deserve a little credit on that trade. I wish someone would come out and say he seen a little something in Murton. Where's Bruce Miles when you need him?

[RichHillIsABeast]

Our farm system isn't "below average." It produced the likes of Murton and Hill. Have you checked out Wilken's draft record? We're going to be producing ML talent consistently from here on out.

 

Murton was a product of the Red Sox, not the Cubs.

 

I hope Wilken turns things around, but the Cubs farm system is currently below average.

 

Murton had roughly the same number of ABs in the BoSox and Cubs farm systems before reaching the majors. He hadn't made it out of A+ when he was traded to the Cubs - hardly a finished product.

 

The farm system isn't currently below average. It has a number of players who are very underrated. Colvin and Samardzija being prime examples.

 

95% of Wilken's 1st round picks made the majors. The odds are pretty good Colvin does as well.

 

Wilken had Samardzija as the #1 pitcher overall. He's dismissed as "too raw" by the rating systems.

 

Our system is going to look a lot better next season once these guys get to show their stuff.

[CoolHandLuke]

Our farm system isn't "below average." It produced the likes of Murton and Hill. Have you checked out Wilken's draft record? We're going to be producing ML talent consistently from here on out.

 

Murton was a product of the Red Sox, not the Cubs.

 

I hope Wilken turns things around, but the Cubs farm system is currently below average.

 

Murton had roughly the same number of ABs in the BoSox and Cubs farm systems before reaching the majors. He hadn't made it out of A+ when he was traded to the Cubs - hardly a finished product.

 

The farm system isn't currently below average. It has a number of players who are very underrated. Colvin and Samardzija being prime examples.

 

95% of Wilken's 1st round picks made the majors. The odds are pretty good Colvin does as well.

 

Wilken had Samardzija as the #1 pitcher overall. He's dismissed as "too raw" by the rating systems.

 

Our system is going to look a lot better next season once these guys get to show their stuff.

 

How are Colvin and Samardzija underrated? BA is absolutely in love with them although neither of them have shown much.

[UK1679666180]

 

Murton had roughly the same number of ABs in the BoSox and Cubs farm systems before reaching the majors. He hadn't made it out of A+ when he was traded to the Cubs - hardly a finished product.

 

The farm system isn't currently below average. It has a number of players who are very underrated. Colvin and Samardzija being prime examples.

 

95% of Wilken's 1st round picks made the majors. The odds are pretty good Colvin does as well.

 

Wilken had Samardzija as the #1 pitcher overall. He's dismissed as "too raw" by the rating systems.

 

Our system is going to look a lot better next season once these guys get to show their stuff.

 

Basing Colvin's potential progression to the majors based on Wilken's success in Tor. and TB ignores a key factor of the development chain and that is how well will the Cubs minor league instructors be able to help develop him into a major league player, which he likely isn't right now.

[CarolinaCubFan]

I'm having a hard time letting go of this Ichiro thing. If I had to bet my own money, I'd probably believe Bruce that the Cubs have nothing to do with this. BUT...

 

Iconic as Ichiro is in Seattle, I've read he wants to win. Seattle might have the cash to lock him up, but I'm sure I've read a couple places he's not happy with the direction of the team.

 

Lou did manage Ichiro his first two seasons in Seattle if I'm not mistaken.

 

Saying that, I really hope this thing has some wheels that Bruce isn't aware of yet. Wishful thinking I know.

 

J. Jones and a prospect? That's what throws me off.

[BigbadB]

Our farm system isn't "below average." It produced the likes of Murton and Hill. Have you checked out Wilken's draft record? We're going to be producing ML talent consistently from here on out.

 

Murton was a product of the Red Sox, not the Cubs.

 

I hope Wilken turns things around, but the Cubs farm system is currently below average.

 

I don't understand. 10 yrs from now hopefully no one will remember where Murton was drafted. They'll remember where he made his name. Is Ryne Sandberg a Phillie? I agree with your posts most of the time but Hendry picked Murton out of a million. He does deserve a little credit on that trade. I wish someone would come out and say he seen a little something in Murton. Where's Bruce Miles when you need him?

 

I didn't say anything about not giving him credit for the trade. The words used in the original post were that the Cubs "produced" the likes of Murton. No, they didn't. Boston drafted him and they produced him until the Cubs traded for him. The Cubs can have some credit for continuing his progression, but Boston drafted him.

 

Prior was pretty much a finished product before the Cubs ever drafted him, but I would still say that the Cubs "produced" him, because the Cubs drafted him and he progressed through their system. Ryne Sandberg was a product of the Phillies. There's nothing wrong with recognizing a good prospect and trading for them, but you don't get to take the credit for drafting them and developing them into major leaguers.

 

So, I do give credit to Hendry for the trade. I do not give him credit for developing him into a major leaguer. And I'm still a bit shocked that Hendry did trade for Murton, because he doesn't fit the mold of the skill set Hendry likes. Hendry likes tools guys and Murton does not fit the description. And when the season starts, we still don't know who will get the bulk of the at bats, Floyd or Murton.

[Bruce Miles]

No, the Cubs should not be given credit for "developing" Murton. I've written that. They do deserve credit for trading for him. When the trade was made, others in baseball were aghast that the Cubs came out of it with both Nomar and Murton. We'll see how the Cubs handle it from here. The jury is out.

[BigbadB]

No, the Cubs should not be given credit for "developing" Murton. I've written that. They do deserve credit for trading for him. When the trade was made, others in baseball were aghast that the Cubs came out of it with both Nomar and Murton. We'll see how the Cubs handle it from here. The jury is out.

 

I wish they would have stuck it out with Nomar another year, too, but I understand why they didn't. Yes, finding a position for him was probably a factor besides the fact the Cubs didn't really get their money's worth the 2 previous years.

 

We couldn't have predicted Cedeno would end up being as bad as he was. I was penciling him into RF, with a move to 1st being perfect for him when Lee got hurt. Jones/Murton in left would have been a good platoon last year with Nomar in RF.

 

I don't wish to dwell on that, however. Hendry does deserve kudos for getting Murton in that deal. I never said he didn't deserve it.

[Bruce Miles]

No, the Cubs should not be given credit for "developing" Murton. I've written that. They do deserve credit for trading for him. When the trade was made, others in baseball were aghast that the Cubs came out of it with both Nomar and Murton. We'll see how the Cubs handle it from here. The jury is out.

 

I wish they would have stuck it out with Nomar another year, too, but I understand why they didn't. Yes, finding a position for him was probably a factor besides the fact the Cubs didn't really get their money's worth the 2 previous years.

 

We couldn't have predicted Cedeno would end up being as bad as he was. I was penciling him into RF, with a move to 1st being perfect for him when Lee got hurt. Jones/Murton in left would have been a good platoon last year with Nomar in RF.

 

I don't wish to dwell on that, however. Hendry does deserve kudos for getting Murton in that deal. I never said he didn't deserve it.

 

Yeah, I wish they would have kept Nomar, too. What a joy to be around. He really treated us media members well, probably because of his experience in Boston. I went up to him a couple times last year, and he was a true gentleman. In hindsight, he would have fit perfectly at first base when D-Lee got hurt, but who knew?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Sorry to reply to something all the way from page one...

 

Cubs.com (not the best source) has the 40-man at 42, with Floyd and Samardzija being the most recent additions. That looks like a release and a trade for a minor leaguer are in order.

 

Why did they even have to add Shark to the 40-man? That seems short-sighted as now he has only 3 option years left. Had he not been added to the 40-man, he'd have some time for that to happen.

 

Vance, Samardzija has 4 option years.

 

As NCCF said on page one, since Jeff signed a major league contract, he has to be put on the 40-man roster.

[Wrigley Rat]

Our farm system isn't "below average." It produced the likes of Murton and Hill. Have you checked out Wilken's draft record? We're going to be producing ML talent consistently from here on out.

 

Murton was a product of the Red Sox, not the Cubs.

 

I hope Wilken turns things around, but the Cubs farm system is currently below average.

 

I don't understand. 10 yrs from now hopefully no one will remember where Murton was drafted. They'll remember where he made his name. Is Ryne Sandberg a Phillie? I agree with your posts most of the time but Hendry picked Murton out of a million. He does deserve a little credit on that trade. I wish someone would come out and say he seen a little something in Murton. Where's Bruce Miles when you need him?

 

If I remember correctly, Murton was originally taken from the Red Sox in order to be sent to the Expos, but at the last minute they changed their mind on Murton and asked for Brendan Harris. Matt Murton fell into the Cubs lap. I'm a big Hendry supporter, but I don't believe he deserves all the credit!

[Illini Iceman]

Our farm system isn't "below average." It produced the likes of Murton and Hill. Have you checked out Wilken's draft record? We're going to be producing ML talent consistently from here on out.

 

Murton was a product of the Red Sox, not the Cubs.

 

I hope Wilken turns things around, but the Cubs farm system is currently below average.

 

I don't understand. 10 yrs from now hopefully no one will remember where Murton was drafted. They'll remember where he made his name. Is Ryne Sandberg a Phillie? I agree with your posts most of the time but Hendry picked Murton out of a million. He does deserve a little credit on that trade. I wish someone would come out and say he seen a little something in Murton. Where's Bruce Miles when you need him?

 

If I remember correctly, Murton was originally taken from the Red Sox in order to be sent to the Expos, but at the last minute they changed their mind on Murton and asked for Brendan Harris. Matt Murton fell into the Cubs lap. I'm a big Hendry supporter, but I don't believe he deserves all the credit!

 

You don't remember correctly.