Are there any more transactions coming?

[Roast]

gus_dog has been around for quite a while so I'm giving him a huge benefit of the doubt here (mainly because I want this to be true).

 

As many have said so far, this all depends on who the PTBNL is. If it's a Mediocre/good prospect then I pull the trigger, if its in the realm of Pie/Patterson then i say no.

[Roast]

anyone that says they would rather have jockstrap over Ichiro is an idiot.

 

Hey, lets watch the personal attacks. Whether you agree with them or not, they make a good point. Ichiro is getting up there in years; and his OPS was actually lower than jones.

 

Either way; personal attacks are a no-no at NSBB.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

anyone that says they would rather have jockstrap over Ichiro is an idiot.

 

Hey, lets watch the personal attacks. Whether you agree with them or not, they make a good point. Ichiro is getting up there in years; and his OPS was actually lower than jones.

 

Either way; personal attacks are a no-no at NSBB.

 

Yeah. He should have said it's idiotic to want Jones over Ichiro. That would be attacking the post.

[CP_414]

I'd rather have Jacque instead of Suzuki.

 

I'd have to ask why. The Cubs need OBP and Ichiro provides a lot more of it than Jacque.

 

That difference isn't worth 7MM in 2007, much less trading away a decent pitching prospect in Gallagher and a ptbnl.

 

Jones/Ichiro is a tradeoff, not an across the board upgrade.

 

Jones '07: .285/.334/.499/.833

Suzuki '07: .322/.370/.416/.786

 

36 points in OBP is worth 7MM? I think not. We could get more than that at SS (not to mention more power) w/o spending that kind of loot.

 

CF/RF is a silly place to throw away 7MM on this Cubs team.

 

Are we not counting the 43 steals in 45 attempts, and the excellent defense and cannon arm against whatever the hell Jones was doing in RF last season. Those things might be overvalued, but they shouldn't be ignored either.

 

It's still not 7MM in difference.

 

I hate to defend Jones's throwing, but he did have an injured shoulder that he just played through.

 

I'm not a Jacque Jones fan. I'm sure I'll be yelling at him several times this coming season (if he remains a Cub), but he's not a scrub and he's a real decent OFer with his current contract.

 

I don't think Jones is a scrub, I think Ichiro is an all-star level player, or at least very close to one. The money is not as big of a deal to me at this point in the offseason, because I don't think making this move would limit the Cubs from doing anything else with the money. If they don't make this move (and again, I assume nothing comes of this) it's not like they will use that $7 Million on someone else. If you think the difference between Ichiro and Jones isn't worth the prospects, I can respect that. I just think with the logjam in our rotation, with Veal ahead of Gallagher, and guys like Guzman, Pawelek, and Samardzija at or near the same level it is a move we can afford to make, that greatly improves the 07 roster.

[RichHillIsABeast]

I'd rather have Jacque instead of Suzuki.

 

I'd have to ask why. The Cubs need OBP and Ichiro provides a lot more of it than Jacque.

 

That difference isn't worth 7MM in 2007, much less trading away a decent pitching prospect in Gallagher and a ptbnl.

 

Jones/Ichiro is a tradeoff, not an across the board upgrade.

 

Jones '07: .285/.334/.499/.833

Suzuki '07: .322/.370/.416/.786

 

36 points in OBP is worth 7MM? I think not. We could get more than that at SS (not to mention more power) w/o spending that kind of loot.

 

CF/RF is a silly place to throw away 7MM on this Cubs team.

 

Are we not counting the 43 steals in 45 attempts, and the excellent defense and cannon arm against whatever the hell Jones was doing in RF last season. Those things might be overvalued, but they shouldn't be ignored either.

 

It's still not 7MM in difference.

 

I hate to defend Jones's throwing, but he did have an injured shoulder that he just played through.

 

I'm not a Jacque Jones fan. I'm sure I'll be yelling at him several times this coming season (if he remains a Cub), but he's not a scrub and he's a real decent OFer with his current contract.

 

I don't think Jones is a scrub, I think Ichiro is an all-star level player, or at least very close to one. The money is not as big of a deal to me at this point in the offseason, because I don't think making this move would limit the Cubs from doing anything else with the money. If they don't make this move (and again, I assume nothing comes of this) it's not like they will use that $7 Million on someone else. If you think the difference between Ichiro and Jones isn't worth the prospects, I can respect that. I just think with the logjam in our rotation, with Veal ahead of Gallagher, and guys like Guzman, Pawelek, and Samardzija at or near the same level it is a move we can afford to make, that greatly improves the 07 roster.

 

We're going to need our farm to start producing when our backloaded contracts catch up to us. It certainly isn't producing position players at an acceptable rate.

 

Dealing away Nolasco for a 1 year rental was dumb. Dealing away another potential ML arm (not to mention the ptbnl) for what could be another 1 year rental would be ______. You fill in the blank.

[CP_414]

I'd rather have Jacque instead of Suzuki.

 

I'd have to ask why. The Cubs need OBP and Ichiro provides a lot more of it than Jacque.

 

That difference isn't worth 7MM in 2007, much less trading away a decent pitching prospect in Gallagher and a ptbnl.

 

Jones/Ichiro is a tradeoff, not an across the board upgrade.

 

Jones '07: .285/.334/.499/.833

Suzuki '07: .322/.370/.416/.786

 

36 points in OBP is worth 7MM? I think not. We could get more than that at SS (not to mention more power) w/o spending that kind of loot.

 

CF/RF is a silly place to throw away 7MM on this Cubs team.

 

Are we not counting the 43 steals in 45 attempts, and the excellent defense and cannon arm against whatever the hell Jones was doing in RF last season. Those things might be overvalued, but they shouldn't be ignored either.

 

It's still not 7MM in difference.

 

I hate to defend Jones's throwing, but he did have an injured shoulder that he just played through.

 

I'm not a Jacque Jones fan. I'm sure I'll be yelling at him several times this coming season (if he remains a Cub), but he's not a scrub and he's a real decent OFer with his current contract.

 

I don't think Jones is a scrub, I think Ichiro is an all-star level player, or at least very close to one. The money is not as big of a deal to me at this point in the offseason, because I don't think making this move would limit the Cubs from doing anything else with the money. If they don't make this move (and again, I assume nothing comes of this) it's not like they will use that $7 Million on someone else. If you think the difference between Ichiro and Jones isn't worth the prospects, I can respect that. I just think with the logjam in our rotation, with Veal ahead of Gallagher, and guys like Guzman, Pawelek, and Samardzija at or near the same level it is a move we can afford to make, that greatly improves the 07 roster.

 

We're going to need our farm to start producing when our backloaded contracts catch up to us. It certainly isn't producing position players at an acceptable rate.

 

Dealing away Nolasco for a 1 year rental was dumb. Dealing away another potential ML arm (not to mention the ptbnl) for what could be another 1 year rental would be ______. You fill in the blank.

 

Ichiro >>>> Pierre

[CubinNY]

I'd rather have Jacque instead of Suzuki.

 

I'd have to ask why. The Cubs need OBP and Ichiro provides a lot more of it than Jacque.

 

That difference isn't worth 7MM in 2007, much less trading away a decent pitching prospect in Gallagher and a ptbnl.

 

Jones/Ichiro is a tradeoff, not an across the board upgrade.

 

Jones '07: .285/.334/.499/.833

Suzuki '07: .322/.370/.416/.786

 

36 points in OBP is worth 7MM? I think not. We could get more than that at SS (not to mention more power) w/o spending that kind of loot.

 

CF/RF is a silly place to throw away 7MM on this Cubs team.

 

Are we not counting the 43 steals in 45 attempts, and the excellent defense and cannon arm against whatever the hell Jones was doing in RF last season. Those things might be overvalued, but they shouldn't be ignored either.

 

It's still not 7MM in difference.

 

I hate to defend Jones's throwing, but he did have an injured shoulder that he just played through.

 

I'm not a Jacque Jones fan. I'm sure I'll be yelling at him several times this coming season (if he remains a Cub), but he's not a scrub and he's a real decent OFer with his current contract.

 

I don't think Jones is a scrub, I think Ichiro is an all-star level player, or at least very close to one. The money is not as big of a deal to me at this point in the offseason, because I don't think making this move would limit the Cubs from doing anything else with the money. If they don't make this move (and again, I assume nothing comes of this) it's not like they will use that $7 Million on someone else. If you think the difference between Ichiro and Jones isn't worth the prospects, I can respect that. I just think with the logjam in our rotation, with Veal ahead of Gallagher, and guys like Guzman, Pawelek, and Samardzija at or near the same level it is a move we can afford to make, that greatly improves the 07 roster.

 

We're going to need our farm to start producing when our backloaded contracts catch up to us. It certainly isn't producing position players at an acceptable rate.

 

Dealing away Nolasco for a 1 year rental was dumb. Dealing away another potential ML arm (not to mention the ptbnl) for what could be another 1 year rental would be ______. You fill in the blank.

 

Ichiro >>>> Pierre

 

That doesn't fit in the blank.

[CP_414]

I'd rather have Jacque instead of Suzuki.

 

I'd have to ask why. The Cubs need OBP and Ichiro provides a lot more of it than Jacque.

 

That difference isn't worth 7MM in 2007, much less trading away a decent pitching prospect in Gallagher and a ptbnl.

 

Jones/Ichiro is a tradeoff, not an across the board upgrade.

 

Jones '07: .285/.334/.499/.833

Suzuki '07: .322/.370/.416/.786

 

36 points in OBP is worth 7MM? I think not. We could get more than that at SS (not to mention more power) w/o spending that kind of loot.

 

CF/RF is a silly place to throw away 7MM on this Cubs team.

 

Are we not counting the 43 steals in 45 attempts, and the excellent defense and cannon arm against whatever the hell Jones was doing in RF last season. Those things might be overvalued, but they shouldn't be ignored either.

 

It's still not 7MM in difference.

 

I hate to defend Jones's throwing, but he did have an injured shoulder that he just played through.

 

I'm not a Jacque Jones fan. I'm sure I'll be yelling at him several times this coming season (if he remains a Cub), but he's not a scrub and he's a real decent OFer with his current contract.

 

I don't think Jones is a scrub, I think Ichiro is an all-star level player, or at least very close to one. The money is not as big of a deal to me at this point in the offseason, because I don't think making this move would limit the Cubs from doing anything else with the money. If they don't make this move (and again, I assume nothing comes of this) it's not like they will use that $7 Million on someone else. If you think the difference between Ichiro and Jones isn't worth the prospects, I can respect that. I just think with the logjam in our rotation, with Veal ahead of Gallagher, and guys like Guzman, Pawelek, and Samardzija at or near the same level it is a move we can afford to make, that greatly improves the 07 roster.

 

We're going to need our farm to start producing when our backloaded contracts catch up to us. It certainly isn't producing position players at an acceptable rate.

 

Dealing away Nolasco for a 1 year rental was dumb. Dealing away another potential ML arm (not to mention the ptbnl) for what could be another 1 year rental would be ______. You fill in the blank.

 

Ichiro >>>> Pierre

 

That doesn't fit in the blank.

 

In this case I would fill in the blank with "excellent."

[BigbadB]

If the discussion is Gallagher and a PTBNL for Ichiro, I'm all for it.

 

The team improved OBP this offseason, but not significantly. Ichiro would be enough to make it significant. When Izturis loses his job at SS to Theriot, it will be even more significant.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If you trade for Ichiro, you have to extend him. There's pretty much no way that it would be worth it to trade for him for one season unless the cost is criminally low.

[hankp101]

I don't necessarily agree that you have to extend him. The way I see it, if you trade for Ichiro, it give the Cubs a real chance to be contenders in 07. If this give us a division title and a punchers chance in the postseason, I am all for it. If we fall out of the race before the deadline, I would guess Ichiro would net the equivalent of Gallagher and PTBNL to some contender. So to me the risk comes in if the Cubs nearly win the division, but fall just short. I'd give up this whole package (depending on PTBNL) for a division title, and I'd give up Jones for the improved opportunity, even if it ends in a deadline dump of Ichiro.

[Guest]

If the Cubs didn't resign Ichiro, he'll almost certainly be a type A free agent. The Cubs would be very safe in offering arby and having him go for a multi-year contact elsewhere. So it would be Jacque + Gallagher + ptbnl for Ichiro, Seattle's second round pick (I don't seem them getting out of the top 15 slots) plus a first round supplemental pick.

 

I'd do it, as many others have said, depending on the ptbnl. But those guys are almost always lesser prospects than the named one.

[Amazing_Grace]

anyone that says they would rather have jockstrap over Ichiro is an idiot.

 

Hey, lets watch the personal attacks. Whether you agree with them or not, they make a good point. Ichiro is getting up there in years; and his OPS was actually lower than jones.

 

Either way; personal attacks are a no-no at NSBB.

 

Yeah. He should have said it's idiotic to want Jones over Ichiro. That would be attacking the post.

 

It would also have the added benefit of being true.

 

Ichiro's OPS comes from his OBP and Jones's is from slugging (Jones OBP last year was .334). Last time I checked our roster, we have plenty of SLG and not nearly enough OBP. Now, we may not want to give up a whole lot to get a one year rental of Ichiro, but for this team as it is now, for one season, there's no way Ichiro wouldn't be a huge improvement over Jones and his career OBP of .328.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Amazing_Grace

[CubsInNC]

If the Cubs didn't resign Ichiro, he'll almost certainly be a type A free agent. The Cubs would be very safe in offering arby and having him go for a multi-year contact elsewhere. So it would be Jacque + Gallagher + ptbnl for Ichiro, Seattle's second round pick (I don't seem them getting out of the top 15 slots) plus a first round supplemental pick.

 

I'd do it, as many others have said, depending on the ptbnl. But those guys are almost always lesser prospects than the named one.

 

Wouldn't that be:

 

Jones + Gallagher + PTBNL for

 

Ichiro, team he signs with first or 2nd round pick, and a supplemental pick?

 

He's likely not going to sign with a bottom 15 team next year. To me Boston wouldn't be out of the picture.

[gus_dog]

Where was this heard?

 

A friend who works for a players' agency told me this. He's usually pretty informed.

 

Not a done deal, just something being discussed right now.

[gus_dog]

gus_dog has been around for quite a while so I'm giving him a huge benefit of the doubt here (mainly because I want this to be true).

 

As many have said so far, this all depends on who the PTBNL is. If it's a Mediocre/good prospect then I pull the trigger, if its in the realm of Pie/Patterson then i say no.

My biggest concern is that it could be Pie. That would kill the deal for the Cubs, IMO.

[davearm]

gus_dog has been around for quite a while so I'm giving him a huge benefit of the doubt here (mainly because I want this to be true).

 

As many have said so far, this all depends on who the PTBNL is. If it's a Mediocre/good prospect then I pull the trigger, if its in the realm of Pie/Patterson then i say no.

My biggest concern is that it could be Pie. That would kill the deal for the Cubs, IMO.

Why would Pie have to be named later?

 

Seems to me that PTBNL would point to a 2006 draftee, or a recent signee. Basically anybody else could be swapped immediately.

[gus_dog]

To follow-up on my initial post:

 

Ichiro would like to go somewhere else due to the direction the Mariners have gone (competitively speaking). Mariners looking at it financially, and prospect-wise. Jones wants out - not happy. Cubs happy to oblige him at the right price.

 

Make the deal, and everybody's happy, right?

 

Jones & Gallagher for Suzuki - Id do that.

 

Now, bringing in a ptbnl, I t REALLY depends what pool they get to pick from. Plan B guys or what? Don't know, but I like the two for one. I'd do it in a heartbeat. It makes the Cubs better, and I think really addresses the OPB/OPS issues, as well as the defencive issues.

 

Now, if we could just get Prior to pitch like a #1, and stay healthy.... :x

[gus_dog]

gus_dog has been around for quite a while so I'm giving him a huge benefit of the doubt here (mainly because I want this to be true).

 

As many have said so far, this all depends on who the PTBNL is. If it's a Mediocre/good prospect then I pull the trigger, if its in the realm of Pie/Patterson then i say no.

My biggest concern is that it could be Pie. That would kill the deal for the Cubs, IMO.

Why would Pie have to be named later?

 

Seems to me that PTBNL would point to a 2006 draftee, or a recent signee. Basically anybody else could be swapped immediately.

 

or a pool of existing players to choose from by a certain date, and I would not want Pie to be in that pool.

[CP_414]

To follow-up on my initial post:

 

Ichiro would like to go somewhere else due to the direction the Mariners have gone (competitively speaking). Mariners looking at it financially, and prospect-wise. Jones wants out - not happy. Cubs happy to oblige him at the right price.

 

Make the deal, and everybody's happy, right?

 

Jones & Gallagher for Suzuki - Id do that.

 

Now, bringing in a ptbnl, I t REALLY depends what pool they get to pick from. Plan B guys or what? Don't know, but I like the two for one. I'd do it in a heartbeat. It makes the Cubs better, and I think really addresses the OPB/OPS issues, as well as the defencive issues.

 

Now, if we could just get Prior to pitch like a #1, and stay healthy.... :x

 

If this happens, you are my hero.

[Guest]

If the Cubs didn't resign Ichiro, he'll almost certainly be a type A free agent. The Cubs would be very safe in offering arby and having him go for a multi-year contact elsewhere. So it would be Jacque + Gallagher + ptbnl for Ichiro, Seattle's second round pick (I don't seem them getting out of the top 15 slots) plus a first round supplemental pick.

 

I'd do it, as many others have said, depending on the ptbnl. But those guys are almost always lesser prospects than the named one.

 

Wouldn't that be:

 

Jones + Gallagher + PTBNL for

 

Ichiro, team he signs with first or 2nd round pick, and a supplemental pick?

 

He's likely not going to sign with a bottom 15 team next year. To me Boston wouldn't be out of the picture.

#-o

 

what on earth was I thinking?

[RichHillIsABeast]

To follow-up on my initial post:

 

Ichiro would like to go somewhere else due to the direction the Mariners have gone (competitively speaking). Mariners looking at it financially, and prospect-wise. Jones wants out - not happy. Cubs happy to oblige him at the right price.

 

Make the deal, and everybody's happy, right?

 

Jones & Gallagher for Suzuki - Id do that.

 

Now, bringing in a ptbnl, I t REALLY depends what pool they get to pick from. Plan B guys or what? Don't know, but I like the two for one. I'd do it in a heartbeat. It makes the Cubs better, and I think really addresses the OPB/OPS issues, as well as the defencive issues.

 

Now, if we could just get Prior to pitch like a #1, and stay healthy.... :x

 

Actually it would most likely lower our team OPS. Jones can SLG and Suzuki can get on base. It's a classic tradeoff. SLG for OBP.

 

I don't think Jones's arm is as bad as last season led us to believe. He didn't have that problem in Minni from the archive games I've seen (Cubs scouts didn't see it either) - so it must have been the shoulder injury, which supposedly didn't require surgery. Jones's range is fine. People were actually clamoring for him to play CF.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Where was this heard?

 

A friend who works for a players' agency told me this. He's usually pretty informed.

 

Not a done deal, just something being discussed right now.

 

Thanks, gus_dog. Let's hope this one is true. What liklihood would your friend put on it?

[Backtobanks]

The bottom line is that it gives the Cubs a much better chance to win in 2007. With players like Lee, Soriano, ARam, and Barrett all in their "prime" and the pitching staff looking as solid and deep as it ever has, they should do everything possible to win it in 2007. You might have to wait through a transition period as Pie and some of the younger pitchers take over, so go for it while you have a chance. Also, let's not forget the significance of the NL Central being in a "down" period.

[gus_dog]

Where was this heard?

 

A friend who works for a players' agency told me this. He's usually pretty informed.

 

Not a done deal, just something being discussed right now.

 

Thanks, gus_dog. Let's hope this one is true. What liklihood would your friend put on it?

 

He didn't say....I actually hadn't talked to him since last baseball season. He called me to find out if I was still a Cubs season tix holder, and then we discussed the Cubs off-season moves, and he said he had heard this deal was being discussed.