Rosenthal: Cubs may still have some moves to make

[goonys evil twin]

Seems like once Hendry has decided he needs to trade a guy, he will do so even if he just gets dung in return. I just have this horrible feeling that he's going to trade JJ for some piece of Nefi-like crap. I really hope not but I just get that dreadful feeling.

 

I'm holding out hope that Jim is holding out for something of quality for Jones, even though I've got the same fear as you.

[sethuel1]

I'd prefer being punched in the face repeatedly to Finley or Erstad.

fixed

[Soul]

I'd prefer Brady Clark to Finley or Erstad.

 

Easily.

 

'04 Clark? Sure. '05 Clark? Gimme.

 

The consensus in Milwaukee is he's not going to get back to those levels.

 

If Clark can't get back to the high .300's in OBP, he's about as useless a starter as can be imagined. A little speed, a little glove, no power........much like any other AAA prospect.

[dew1679666265]

Seems like once Hendry has decided he needs to trade a guy, he will do so even if he just gets dung in return. I just have this horrible feeling that he's going to trade JJ for some piece of Nefi-like crap. I really hope not but I just get that dreadful feeling.

 

I'm holding out hope that Jim is holding out for something of quality for Jones, even though I've got the same fear as you.

 

Didn't Bruce mention that Hendry will be very selective about what he takes for Jacque? I can't remember for sure, but I thought I remembered him saying that.

[questionmarkgrace]

one of the radio updates said earlier that the cubs were close to signing tomas perez to a minor league deal. Added infield depth I guess. Really doesn't deserve its own thread though.

[nilodnayr]

Wouldn't mind Church...but I think Jones is better?

 

I think Jones is slightly better for the short-term, but I actually think Church is a better fit for the Cubs, then Jones, because of his ability to reach base consistantly.

 

If you think Jones is slightly better for the short-term but Church is better because of his ability to reach base constantly, then are you saying that Jones' slugging advantage over Church slightly outweighs Church's OBP advantage? Because in a much worse hitting environment Church has outslugged Jones the past two years.

 

Church has put up OPS+ of 120 and 128. Jones hasnt come close to that since his break out year in 2002.

 

The only valid concern about Church is that he hasn't been a full time player, but I think that is more a reflection of an organization that just gave Nook Logan the starting CF job.

[nilodnayr]

Eww, I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.

 

Jacque Jones should be our center fielder. Now, Bernie Williams might be an acceptable platoon partner there, but other than that, no thanks.

 

Steve Finley? Darin Erstad? Give me Pie over either, thanks, if Jacque is really out of the question.

 

Hopefully Rosenthal is just talking out of his ass here.

 

Does he ever talk out of anything else?

 

Actually he's been dead-on pretty often this offseason. Hopefully not this time.

 

Actually he says "a trade for a less proven player such as the Nationals' Ryan Church might be a more realistic option, but Erstad and Finley are on the Cubs' radar." I hope hes right about Church.

[nilodnayr]

one of the radio updates said earlier that the cubs were close to signing tomas perez to a minor league deal. Added infield depth I guess. Really doesn't deserve its own thread though.

 

Fun fact...Lance Berkman out OPS+ed Tomas Perez by more than Aramis Ramirez last year.

[SouthSideRyan]

Eww, I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.

 

Jacque Jones should be our center fielder. Now, Bernie Williams might be an acceptable platoon partner there, but other than that, no thanks.

 

Steve Finley? Darin Erstad? Give me Pie over either, thanks, if Jacque is really out of the question.

 

Hopefully Rosenthal is just talking out of his ass here.

 

Does he ever talk out of anything else?

 

Yes, Rosenthal is the best baseball writer out there when it comes to reporting news.

[CUBZ99]

one of the radio updates said earlier that the cubs were close to signing tomas perez to a minor league deal. Added infield depth I guess. Really doesn't deserve its own thread though.

 

I never realized just how bad Perez's numbers were until I looked them up. He is actually worse than Neifi.

[RammyFanny]

one of the radio updates said earlier that the cubs were close to signing tomas perez to a minor league deal. Added infield depth I guess. Really doesn't deserve its own thread though.

 

I never realized just how bad Perez's numbers were until I looked them up. He is actually worse than Neifi.

We need to put a treehouse sign outside of Wrigley with "No Perez's alowed" on it.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

one of the radio updates said earlier that the cubs were close to signing tomas perez to a minor league deal. Added infield depth I guess. Really doesn't deserve its own thread though.

 

I never realized just how bad Perez's numbers were until I looked them up. He is actually worse than Neifi.

 

He was actually pretty damn good when he was with... Wait, I was thinking of Ted Williams.

[CubsWin]

I understand the fine thing but the lineup is solid 1-7 which is something I haven't seen in a while and Izturis has the potential to hit 300 to hide his lack of isod.

 

I'm not sure what Hendry can do at this point to make them great gooney unless he pulls of a major trade or finds a way to get +1 value for Jones and/or Eyre.

 

They might be solid. It's hardly a given.

That seems a bit harsh, don't you think? They might be solid? We're just talking about being solid, not all-star caliber at every slot.

 

Of Soriano, DeRosa, Lee, Ramirez, Barrett, Jones and Murton, which one of those is likely to have a below average year for their position? Any of them? DeRosa is probably the shakiest of them, but is he likely to put up a below average OPS for a 2B next year? If none are likely to have below average offensive production for their position, then doesn't it logically follow that they are very likely to be a solid 1-7?

 

 

I'm not sure what he can do either, but he's the one that brought them to this point. I'm not about to accept what he's done as the best option given circumstances when he's the one that brought about the circumstances.

Just curious. You mention circumstances that Hendry has brought about. Which circumstances are you referring to? Thanks.

[CubsWin]

Seems like once Hendry has decided he needs to trade a guy, he will do so even if he just gets dung in return. I just have this horrible feeling that he's going to trade JJ for some piece of Nefi-like crap. I really hope not but I just get that dreadful feeling.

I know how you feel. The only story I remember reading about Jones wanting out stated that Hendry would only move him if the deal was right. This is completely different from Sosa and Patterson. There, the Cubs were desperate. They had no leverage. Here, the Cubs aren't desperate. Jones isn't making a big stink about wanting to leave. Hendry isn't saying he wants him to go.

 

But its the fluff pieces about Pie possibly starting in CF next season that gets me wondering. If Hendry is laying low in the hopes of making other GMs think he isn't committed to trading Jones and it doesn't work, the "right deal" never comes along, is he going to trade him anyway for crap or will he really hold on to him?

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Wouldn't mind Church...but I think Jones is better?

 

I think Jones is slightly better for the short-term, but I actually think Church is a better fit for the Cubs, then Jones, because of his ability to reach base consistantly.

 

If you think Jones is slightly better for the short-term but Church is better because of his ability to reach base constantly, then are you saying that Jones' slugging advantage over Church slightly outweighs Church's OBP advantage? Because in a much worse hitting environment Church has outslugged Jones the past two years.

 

Church has put up OPS+ of 120 and 128. Jones hasnt come close to that since his break out year in 2002.

 

The only valid concern about Church is that he hasn't been a full time player, but I think that is more a reflection of an organization that just gave Nook Logan the starting CF job.

 

I believe Bruce Miles stated before Christmas that the Cubs have no interest in Ryan Church.

[woodchip2153]

I had a dream... no nightmare, that Micheal Tucker was a center fielder.

[CuseCubFan69]

Wouldn't mind Church...but I think Jones is better?

 

I think Jones is slightly better for the short-term, but I actually think Church is a better fit for the Cubs, then Jones, because of his ability to reach base consistantly.

 

If you think Jones is slightly better for the short-term but Church is better because of his ability to reach base constantly, then are you saying that Jones' slugging advantage over Church slightly outweighs Church's OBP advantage? Because in a much worse hitting environment Church has outslugged Jones the past two years.

 

Church has put up OPS+ of 120 and 128. Jones hasnt come close to that since his break out year in 2002.

 

The only valid concern about Church is that he hasn't been a full time player, but I think that is more a reflection of an organization that just gave Nook Logan the starting CF job.

 

I believe Bruce Miles stated before Christmas that the Cubs have no interest in Ryan Church.

 

Because he's too expensive player cost wise, too young and in Pies way or just not interested in him as a player?

[BigbadB]

I recall that the Cubs did have interest, but I also believe that was before Washington changed their tune about wanting to trade him so badly.

 

Washington was ready to move him at one point for a pack of trading cards. Then, when teams showed interest, they were asking for all the actual players inside that pack of trading cards.

 

This market has been really ridiculous. What happened to the good old days of fair trades?

[CuseCubFan69]

I recall that the Cubs did have interest, but I also believe that was before Washington changed their tune about wanting to trade him so badly.

 

Washington was ready to move him at one point for a pack of trading cards. Then, when teams showed interest, they were asking for all the actual players inside that pack of trading cards.

 

This market has been really ridiculous. What happened to the good old days of fair trades?

 

I thought Clinton got rid of that with NAFTA?

[CubColtPacer]

Wouldn't mind Church...but I think Jones is better?

 

I think Jones is slightly better for the short-term, but I actually think Church is a better fit for the Cubs, then Jones, because of his ability to reach base consistantly.

 

If you think Jones is slightly better for the short-term but Church is better because of his ability to reach base constantly, then are you saying that Jones' slugging advantage over Church slightly outweighs Church's OBP advantage? Because in a much worse hitting environment Church has outslugged Jones the past two years.

 

Church has put up OPS+ of 120 and 128. Jones hasnt come close to that since his break out year in 2002.

 

The only valid concern about Church is that he hasn't been a full time player, but I think that is more a reflection of an organization that just gave Nook Logan the starting CF job.

 

I believe Bruce Miles stated before Christmas that the Cubs have no interest in Ryan Church.

 

No, he said that the Cubs had interest, but that Washington was asking for way too much for him to make a deal at that time.

[CuseCubFan69]

Wouldn't mind Church...but I think Jones is better?

 

I think Jones is slightly better for the short-term, but I actually think Church is a better fit for the Cubs, then Jones, because of his ability to reach base consistantly.

 

If you think Jones is slightly better for the short-term but Church is better because of his ability to reach base constantly, then are you saying that Jones' slugging advantage over Church slightly outweighs Church's OBP advantage? Because in a much worse hitting environment Church has outslugged Jones the past two years.

 

Church has put up OPS+ of 120 and 128. Jones hasnt come close to that since his break out year in 2002.

 

The only valid concern about Church is that he hasn't been a full time player, but I think that is more a reflection of an organization that just gave Nook Logan the starting CF job.

 

I believe Bruce Miles stated before Christmas that the Cubs have no interest in Ryan Church.

 

No, he said that the Cubs had interest, but that Washington was asking for way too much for him to make a deal at that time.

 

No way was Hendry going to give up Perez and Rusch just to get Church.

[Abe Frohman]

Not sure how crazy you are, but I'm not fine with this team the way it is right now, because I'm not happy with them just "doing fine". I want them to do great. I would, however, prefer the team as is, rather than minus Jones and plus Erstad/Finley/Williams.

 

I'm with you. The Cubs STILL don't have a legit #5 hitter (they do, but he has been delegated to the leadoff spot).

[Balsa]

I recall that the Cubs did have interest, but I also believe that was before Washington changed their tune about wanting to trade him so badly.

 

Washington was ready to move him at one point for a pack of trading cards. Then, when teams showed interest, they were asking for all the actual players inside that pack of trading cards.

 

This market has been really ridiculous. What happened to the good old days of fair trades?

 

I thought Clinton got rid of that with NAFTA?

=D> =D>

[nilodnayr]

Wouldn't mind Church...but I think Jones is better?

 

I think Jones is slightly better for the short-term, but I actually think Church is a better fit for the Cubs, then Jones, because of his ability to reach base consistantly.

 

If you think Jones is slightly better for the short-term but Church is better because of his ability to reach base constantly, then are you saying that Jones' slugging advantage over Church slightly outweighs Church's OBP advantage? Because in a much worse hitting environment Church has outslugged Jones the past two years.

 

Church has put up OPS+ of 120 and 128. Jones hasnt come close to that since his break out year in 2002.

 

The only valid concern about Church is that he hasn't been a full time player, but I think that is more a reflection of an organization that just gave Nook Logan the starting CF job.

 

I believe Bruce Miles stated before Christmas that the Cubs have no interest in Ryan Church.

 

No, he said that the Cubs had interest, but that Washington was asking for way too much for him to make a deal at that time.

 

Good, that makes a ton of sense. Seemingly every team was after church at the time and nothing came of it. I bet he gets revisited again very soon. He will definitely be moved before opening day.

[goonys evil twin]

I understand the fine thing but the lineup is solid 1-7 which is something I haven't seen in a while and Izturis has the potential to hit 300 to hide his lack of isod.

 

I'm not sure what Hendry can do at this point to make them great gooney unless he pulls of a major trade or finds a way to get +1 value for Jones and/or Eyre.

 

They might be solid. It's hardly a given.

That seems a bit harsh, don't you think? They might be solid? We're just talking about being solid, not all-star caliber at every slot.

 

Of Soriano, DeRosa, Lee, Ramirez, Barrett, Jones and Murton, which one of those is likely to have a below average year for their position? Any of them? DeRosa is probably the shakiest of them, but is he likely to put up a below average OPS for a 2B next year? If none are likely to have below average offensive production for their position, then doesn't it logically follow that they are very likely to be a solid 1-7?

 

 

I'm not sure what he can do either, but he's the one that brought them to this point. I'm not about to accept what he's done as the best option given circumstances when he's the one that brought about the circumstances.

Just curious. You mention circumstances that Hendry has brought about. Which circumstances are you referring to? Thanks.

 

Harsh? Saying they might be solid is harsh? My lord, the level of angst people have when others don't praise this team is absurd. DeRosa could easily have a very bad year. Lee could easily have a year more similar to his non-2005 than his 2005. Ramirez has some injury issues, and there is always the post contract syndrome to worry about. Same with Soriano, who, by the way, could very easily just be okay. Barrett broke a nut. Plus he's got a lot of mileage as a catcher with general health concerns, and is backed up by Hendry Blanco, who will play a lot. Jones isn't even guaranteed to be on the team, and if he is, then he and Murton aren't a lock to be in the lineup at the same time. Speaking of Murton, he could have a setback, as a young guy whose hardly an established impact hitter, there's no guarantee. Furthermore, we aren't assured that Izturis will be batting 8th.

 

What are the odds of any one of those things happening? It probably varies. But the odds are something will go wrong with one of those guys. The point is they aren't a lock to be solid, not in my book. The furthest I'd go is saying they are a lock to be better than last year, but even that could be wrong, especially if they end up with an unproductive CF and Lee somehow can't recover fully or gets hurt. Then, you're basically the same team as last year, with Soriano replacing Jones. Now, that'd be a disaster, and I'm not predicting it. But nobody can say it would be unthinkable. We are talking about a team that has had an average to terrible lineup for multiple years now. I'm going to make them prove it on the field before I hand them anything.

 

And you know you don't need an answer to that last question. This is Hendry's team. He built it. He is responsible for the fact that they are below .500 under his watch. Some people are saying you can't expect Hendry to do anything more than he has, as if he's the new guy who came in to fix a bad situation. That's just not the case. Hendry broke this team, it was his job to fix it, no matter how difficult a task that was.