Marquis can have #21

[Mizzou]

Marquis is a huge douche bag if he chooses to wear number 21. The Cubs are douche bags for allowing Marquis the choice.

 

I completely, completely disagree. Marquis had #21 in St. Louis, the number isn't retired, and Sosa hasn't been on the team for a few years. If Sosa had died or something, then yes, that's fine, but I think the Cubs would be douchebags if they made him change his number because it was worn by a player a few years ago

Because it was worn by a player a few years ago?

 

It was worn by arguably the greatest Cubs of all time. Marquis is a crap player, and shouldn't even think about wearing the same jersey number that Sammy Sosa wore.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I think Bobby Hill and John Mabry wearing #17 is worse

 

Reasons why we should honor that douchebag over Sammy?

 

No kidding.

[Roast]

I would be SO pissed if that butt-clown gets to wear 21. I don't even know what I'd do.

[Derwood]

Marquis is a huge douche bag if he chooses to wear number 21. The Cubs are douche bags for allowing Marquis the choice.

 

I completely, completely disagree. Marquis had #21 in St. Louis, the number isn't retired, and Sosa hasn't been on the team for a few years. If Sosa had died or something, then yes, that's fine, but I think the Cubs would be douchebags if they made him change his number because it was worn by a player a few years ago

Because it was worn by a player a few years ago?

 

It was worn by arguably the greatest Cubs of all time. Marquis is a crap player, and shouldn't even think about wearing the same jersey number that Sammy Sosa wore.

 

Yes, Sammy was awesome, but bridges were burned. If the number isn't retired, then someone else should be allowed to wear it. If you don't want a "crap player" to wear it, retire it, simple. Clearly the team doesn't hold Sosa in as high regard as some fans.

 

It's important to this franchise that players embody what it is to "be a Cub", and Sosa just isn't that. He was a great player who put up eye-popping numbers, but he'll never be confused with Banks or Santo as far as championing the Cubs and comitting his post-baseball life to the team (another reason I think Santo's number was retired....he has dedicated so much of his time and energy to the Cubs in the last 30 years. I just don't see Sammy following suit).

[FergieJ31]

Marquis is a huge douche bag if he chooses to wear number 21. The Cubs are douche bags for allowing Marquis the choice.

 

I completely, completely disagree. Marquis had #21 in St. Louis, the number isn't retired, and Sosa hasn't been on the team for a few years. If Sosa had died or something, then yes, that's fine, but I think the Cubs would be douchebags if they made him change his number because it was worn by a player a few years ago

Because it was worn by a player a few years ago?

 

It was worn by arguably the greatest Cubs of all time. Marquis is a crap player, and shouldn't even think about wearing the same jersey number that Sammy Sosa wore.

 

Yes, Sammy was awesome, but bridges were burned. If the number isn't retired, then someone else should be allowed to wear it. If you don't want a "crap player" to wear it, retire it, simple. Clearly the team doesn't hold Sosa in as high regard as some fans.

 

It's important to this franchise that players embody what it is to "be a Cub", and Sosa just isn't that. He was a great player who put up eye-popping numbers, but he'll never be confused with Banks or Santo as far as championing the Cubs and comitting his post-baseball life to the team (another reason I think Santo's number was retired....he has dedicated so much of his time and energy to the Cubs in the last 30 years. I just don't see Sammy following suit).

 

Well put.

 

I'm astonished that some ppl on this board seem more outraged that Marquis *might* wear a #21 Cubs jersey than that he *will* wear a Cubs jersey. Sammy is history; I don't believe the Cubs will or should retire the number.

[Mizzou]

Marquis is a huge douche bag if he chooses to wear number 21. The Cubs are douche bags for allowing Marquis the choice.

 

I completely, completely disagree. Marquis had #21 in St. Louis, the number isn't retired, and Sosa hasn't been on the team for a few years. If Sosa had died or something, then yes, that's fine, but I think the Cubs would be douchebags if they made him change his number because it was worn by a player a few years ago

Because it was worn by a player a few years ago?

 

It was worn by arguably the greatest Cubs of all time. Marquis is a crap player, and shouldn't even think about wearing the same jersey number that Sammy Sosa wore.

 

Yes, Sammy was awesome, but bridges were burned. If the number isn't retired, then someone else should be allowed to wear it. If you don't want a "crap player" to wear it, retire it, simple. Clearly the team doesn't hold Sosa in as high regard as some fans.

 

It's important to this franchise that players embody what it is to "be a Cub", and Sosa just isn't that. He was a great player who put up eye-popping numbers, but he'll never be confused with Banks or Santo as far as championing the Cubs and comitting his post-baseball life to the team (another reason I think Santo's number was retired....he has dedicated so much of his time and energy to the Cubs in the last 30 years. I just don't see Sammy following suit).

To Cubs fans like myself who were big Sammy fans, what the Cubs are doing is a big slap in the face. First they trash Sammy in the media because he left a game early that had the same significance as a spring training game. And now they sign some horrible pitcher who was one of the worst players in baseball last year, and they're fine with him wearing the same number that Sammy did? That's crap. Sammy put more fans in the seats than any of McDonough's marketing gimmicks ever have. Show a little respect and don't allow some random player (a former Cardinal, no less) to wear the same number that a baseball legend wore.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Marquis is a huge douche bag if he chooses to wear number 21. The Cubs are douche bags for allowing Marquis the choice.

 

I completely, completely disagree. Marquis had #21 in St. Louis, the number isn't retired, and Sosa hasn't been on the team for a few years. If Sosa had died or something, then yes, that's fine, but I think the Cubs would be douchebags if they made him change his number because it was worn by a player a few years ago

Because it was worn by a player a few years ago?

 

It was worn by arguably the greatest Cubs of all time. Marquis is a crap player, and shouldn't even think about wearing the same jersey number that Sammy Sosa wore.

 

Yes, Sammy was awesome, but bridges were burned. If the number isn't retired, then someone else should be allowed to wear it. If you don't want a "crap player" to wear it, retire it, simple. Clearly the team doesn't hold Sosa in as high regard as some fans.

 

It's important to this franchise that players embody what it is to "be a Cub", and Sosa just isn't that. He was a great player who put up eye-popping numbers, but he'll never be confused with Banks or Santo as far as championing the Cubs and comitting his post-baseball life to the team (another reason I think Santo's number was retired....he has dedicated so much of his time and energy to the Cubs in the last 30 years. I just don't see Sammy following suit).

 

Part of the criticism is because the Cubs are burning bridges and setting up this situation.

 

Honestly, the Cubs should be more concerned about how they can bring a championship for the first time in 99 years than whether or not one of the team's greatest players is championing the Cubs after his career (especially due to the fact the Cubs contributed a lot to the way Sammy's Cub career ended).

[Abe Frohman]

I don't know, Avenger. I agree with you, but I also disagree. Let him wear #21 - it is not yet a retired number. The special thing about retired numbers is that the player that the number represents is HONORED by not allowing another player to wear that number.

 

That's just the way it goes. Until those numbers are retired, they are fair game. We still feel funny, but that is beside the point.

 

I do think the number of a star player is significant, because it becomes a symbol of that players accomplishments/contributions to the team. Tell me you don't think of Michael Jordan or Ryne Sandberg when you see #23, or Babe Ruth/#3, etc.

 

First: If you need a number to remember certain players and their accomplishments, then you prolly didn't notice the accomplishments as they are being played out. I know what you are saying, but I believe players accomplishments are measured by what he does on the field/rink/court and not by the numbers he wears. The numbers, to me, is nothing more then a self-promotion gimmick, no better then say a "wrestling gimmick." You remember the player, not the number.

 

Second: Did you already forget Devin "Mr. Bear 23" Hester?

 

I don't think you need the number to remember the player, I just think that you remember the number based on what that player did. It's a total association thing. Numbers don't matter, really.

 

If Mabry can wear #17, and several players can wear #8, I don't see why it is a problem for someone to wear #21. Even #31 has been worn.

 

I don't like it, but until the Cubs honor a player by retiring their number, there should be no qualms about it being used by others.

 

But 8, 17, 21, and 31 should be put in the closet if I had my way.

 

Andre Dawson and Mark Grace were great players for the Cubs, but they do not even come close to deserving Sammy Sosa status in terms of retired numbers. Don't forget that at the present time, the Cubs only have 4 numbers retired (Banks, Williams, Santo, Sandberg). It's a pretty exclusive club. I mean if we are going to retire Grace's number, we might as well retire Gabby Hartnett, Hack Wilson and other Cubs of yesteryear that actually led the team to WS appearence.

 

Hey, I agree with you whole-heartedly, but my point is - I feel less than happy when the #'s of great Cubs are worn by new Cubs. Not that it is right or wrong, just that it is a strange site that I don't particularly like. I believe that any # not retired is fair game.

[Andy]

This is probably the single stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life. I cannot believe this team is doing this.

 

If I hadn't already committed myself to this stupid team I'd stop following baseball. There is no excuse for giving a former CARDINAL the number worn by one of the 3 most influential Cubs of all-time.

 

Screw you, McDonough.

[Chris]

Regardless of who puts on that jersey, Sammy will always be #21. Either way, it's still very disappointing. I wonder if his #21 will ever be retired by the Cubs.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Let me ask this question again:

 

Why is Marquis wearing number #21 such a big deal?

 

Fact: Sosa hasn't retired and/or made the HOF.

Fact: The number is not retired.

 

Fact is...the number isn't retired, and is available for anybody to wear. I'm sorry some people here don't want to see #21 worn by another player, but it looks like that's going to happen. Marquis wearing #21 should not make you forget the memories of Sosa.

 

If Marquis wants to wear #21, so be it, and the people who have a problem with this, needs to find a legit problem to worry about.

[RockTheIvy]

Sandberg should have had to switch numbers once Jordan picked 23. No one should ever be able to wear that number ever again, in any sport. You should have to kneel down and ask permission to even utter the number which is one more than 22.

 

I'm sure some dudes wore 10 before it was retired. It'd be a different story if the Chubbs got Jorge Sosa, and he decided to wear 21. That'd be a real problem.

[soccer10k]

First off, I don't believe the Cubs tarnished the relationship. Sammy did.

 

What Sammy did wasn't right but the Cubs did just as much as he did to tarnish this relationship. It was clear the Cubs wanted him gone and they did all they could to try to tarnish his image with the fans as they could.

 

Second of all what did Sammy bring to Chicago? Yes, it was fun to watch him hit all those HR's. Although a ton of them were either solo's or when the game was as much as over. These aren't just my statements on this board but several others here.

 

He was the only reason to watch the Cubs for a number of years. And how do you know a higher percentage of Sammy's HR's were either solo's or when the game was over than the average player? If you have stats to back your claim up then go ahead and present them. But you thinking something is true doesn't make it true.

 

What else did he accomplish?

A couple of playoff apprearances and ALOT of losing seasons? Yes, he wasn't to blame for those losing seasons. But he also wasn't a difference maker to stop those losing seasons.

 

This isn't basketball and one player can't completely change a franchise. Last time I checked, Sammy wasn't a part of the pitching staff and was only one of nine hitters in the lineup. There's only so much he can do. He singlehandedly led the Cubs to the playoffs in 1998 and almost did it again in 2001.

 

Walked out on the team because he wasn't happy?

Articles I've been reading over the last few months are putting Big Macs chances as a HOF'er. Where does Sammy fall into a situation where he's an automatic for the hall?

Hey, I'm not looking to upset anyone.

I was as big a fan of his as anyone. But when it came down to it he wasn't able to seal the deal when it was needed the most.

 

IF he gets into the hall for some reason then I believe the Cubs will retire his number as they have all the others.

 

Everyone one have a Merry Christmas

 

Once again, you have stats to back up your claim that he "wasn't able to seal the deal when it was needed most". You claim to be a big fan of him yet all you did in this post was diminish his remarkable achievements.

[Bruce Miles]

While we're at it, can people stop calling Jason Marquis (or anybody, for that matter) a "douchebag?" What has he done? Nowhere has he been quoted saying he wants No. 21. It's all been speculation. Let's see what happens.

[Guest]

While we're at it, can people stop calling Jason Marquis (or anybody, for that matter) a "douchebag?" What has he done? Nowhere has he been quoted saying he wants No. 21. It's all been speculation. Let's see what happens.

What Bruce said.

[Mizzou]

While we're at it, can people stop calling Jason Marquis (or anybody, for that matter) a "douchebag?" What has he done? Nowhere has he been quoted saying he wants No. 21. It's all been speculation. Let's see what happens.

I said that he's a douchebag IF he decides to wear number 21, not that he is a douchebag right now. I hope he has enough respect to not wear it, but we'll see.

[DCNashville]

 

This isn't basketball and one player can't completely change a franchise. Last time I checked, Sammy wasn't a part of the pitching staff and was only one of nine hitters in the lineup. There's only so much he can do. He singlehandedly led the Cubs to the playoffs in 1998 and almost did it again in 2001.

 

 

Either one player can't be responsible for the success of the team or he can. We can't have it both ways just to support Sammy.

[Andy]

 

This isn't basketball and one player can't completely change a franchise. Last time I checked, Sammy wasn't a part of the pitching staff and was only one of nine hitters in the lineup. There's only so much he can do. He singlehandedly led the Cubs to the playoffs in 1998 and almost did it again in 2001.

 

 

Either one player can't be responsible for the success of the team or he can. We can't have it both ways just to support Sammy.

Sammy Sosa's 2001 pretty much was single-handed. The 2nd most homers that anyone hit on that team was 17 (Stairs and Rondell). The 2nd highest batting average on the team was .307 (Rondell), and he only played 95 games. Even the pitching staff had only two guys with ERA's under 4 (Wood at 3.36 and Lieber at 3.80). The pen didn't have a single member with a sub-2.50 ERA.

 

Sammy OPS'd 1.174, hit 64 homers, drove in 160, got on base at a .437 clip, batted .328...he led the team in TRIPLES even, with 5. He was the only guy on the team to score 100 runs and nearly scored 150. His 116 walks was 64 more than anyone else on the team. The Cubs had three regulars - Stairs, Hundley and Matthews Jr. - who posted .250 averages or worse.

 

For more: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2001.shtml

 

If it wasn't a single-handed effort, it was the closest you will ever get to one. That team shouldn't have won 75 games, let alone 88.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's a number.

[Derwood]

The game Sammy left during may have been incosequential because the team was out of the race, but it WAS fan appreciation day. Sammy was always in it for himself.

 

And there were plenty of other beloved Cubs who we aren't mad about jersey doubling. Murton wears Dawson's #19. Mabry wore Grace's #17. Ted Lilly will wear Fegie Jenkins' #31.

 

And the fact that Marquis was a Cardinal shouldn't even come into the dicussion. That's a fan thing, not a front office thing. You think McDonough shouldn't sign/trade for a former Cardinal if he thinks that player can help the team? Get over it.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It's a number.

 

What he said.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Murton wears Dawson's #19

 

Dawson wore #8.

[Slugger_16]

Why is this topic 4 pages long? Why are people so into this?

[UMFan83]

While we're at it, can people stop calling Jason Marquis (or anybody, for that matter) a "douchebag?" What has he done? Nowhere has he been quoted saying he wants No. 21. It's all been speculation. Let's see what happens.

 

Don't you read the boards? He's this years Jacque Jones. He can do no good and will be run out of town at the end of the season.

[Bruce Miles]

Why is this topic 4 pages long? Why are people so into this?

 

Exactly. And when it's all said and done, I believe the point will be moot. My guess is that Marquis won't mess with 21 and the Cubs eventually will retire it.