Winter Meetings Thread (Merged)

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

While I'm not eager to count on Marshall, I still think he has the ability to be a quality major league pitcher.

 

I think Guzman may be ok as well, but I doubt him a little more than I do Marshall.

 

If the Cubs signed Schmidt, I'd have no qualms about Marshall being the number five starter going into next season.

[Soul]

I'm really hoping to see Guzman in the rotation to start 2007, actually. It will mean that he has outpitched other candidates to get there.

 

Not necessarily. It could mean that both Miller and Prior suffer setbacks, and that there was little else to choose from after Zambrano, 2 new guys and Hill. In other words, he could win the job by default without having pitched all that well.

Alright, let me amend my statement...

 

I really hope to see Guzman outpitch several other viable candidates to grab a spot in the 2007 rotation out of spring training! :D

 

Love to see it.

 

I'm just a little down on him right now because it seemed to me last year he displayed some poor attitude out there when things went wrong.

 

Hopefully he corrects that and grows into a decent starter. He's 25 now (I believe) so it's getting to be that time where he needs to show it.

[BigbadB]

Even if there isn't room in the rotation for Guzman, he could be one very tough reliever.

[BigbadB]

Rotoworld is reporting that the Cubs might be interested in a Rodrigo Lopez/Jacque Jones swap with Baltimore. Ugh.

[goonys evil twin]

Rotoworld is reporting that the Cubs might be interested in a Rodrigo Lopez/Jacque Jones swap with Baltimore. Ugh.

 

Who is Rodrigo Lopez?

 

Just checked him out on baseballreference. While I'm not Jones fan, this would be absurd as a straight up transaction.

[VVMattVV]

We should just stop trading with Baltimore...

[BigbadB]

We should just stop trading with Baltimore...

 

Seconded.

[Southpaw191679666239]

We should just stop trading with Baltimore...

 

Seconded.

[goonys evil twin]

We should just stop trading with Baltimore...

 

We should not make bad trades with Baltimore.

[CoolHandLuke]

We should just stop trading with Baltimore...

 

We should not make bad trades with Baltimore.

 

seconded.

[cheapseats]

I haven't seen anyone else mention this yet - maybe I've just missed it - but Will Carroll reported this morning that Ted Lily is asking for $11 million per.

[Bruno7481]

We should just stop trading with Baltimore...

 

Why?

[sethuel1]

seconded

[XZero771679666304]

Am I the only person who never, EVER wants to see Mateo, Guzman, Gallagher or Marshall every pitch another inning for the Cubs again?

 

yeah, i'd much rather pay gil meche 4/$40 to put up a 4.50 era than pay marshall $300k to put up a 4.70 era.

 

Marshall putting up a 4.70 would be quite the improvement.

 

Marshall: 125 2/3 ip 1.52 WHIP 5.59 ERA

 

Marmol: 77 IP 1.69 WHIP 6.08 ERA

 

Guzman: 56 IP 1.88 WHIP 7.39 ERA

 

Mateo: 45 2/3 IP 1.62 WHIP 5.32 ERA

 

Smallish sample size, but none of their peripherals were at all impressive (other than Guzman's K/9, which still wasn't spectacular), and I don't see much that would lead me to believe that any of them would improve to even Gil Meche levels next season. They were all bad, really bad. If Guzman could stay healthy and get it together he could be good, but I personally don't believe he will.

 

Counting on any of these guys next season would be just the type of irresponsible behavior that Hendry has been blasted for in the past. YES, a guy like Gil Meche is probably a better bet than any of the kids we saw last season, save Rich Hill. Sure Meche is no superstar, but he has never posted numbers as bad any of the four kids did in 2006.

 

Even if we sign Schmidt (which is far from a given), the rotation would look like this:

 

Zambrano

Schmidt

Hill (borderline ?)

Miller (?)

Prior (?)

Mateo/Marshall/Guzman/Marmol (????)

 

Unfortunately, at least one Lilly/Meche guy will have to be signed, or a Jennings/Westbrook traded for. I would like to see one of the kids get a chance, but with all the potential question marks we have in the rotation, I don't see how that would be even a remotely good idea.

 

Is it worth 10 million compared to 370K? Probably not, but it's not our money. Pitching is at a premium right now, and unfortunately the Cubs need it.

[BigbadB]

We should just stop trading with Baltimore...

 

Why?

 

Cubs always seem to get the VERY short end of the stick when they trade with Baltimore.

[Bruno7481]

We should just stop trading with Baltimore...

 

Why?

 

Cubs always seem to get the VERY short end of the stick when they trade with Baltimore.

 

What has Baltimore received from the Cubs?

 

A broken down Sosa, and a CF who still can't get on base.

 

I guess I fail to see the robbery.

[HoopsCubs]

From the Baltimore Sun:

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles04dec04,0,5912281.story?page=2&coll=bal-sports-headlines

 

 

"The Orioles discussed swapping Lopez for Milwaukee Brewers outfielder Kevin Mench earlier this offseason, but the deal is no longer on the table, according to a source familiar with the talks. There also have been talks with the Cubs about left-handed-hitting outfielder Jacque Jones, but no deal appears imminent as the Cubs are also looking at the Orioles' young pitching."

 

While I do believe the Cubs are focusing very hard on trading Jones, I don' think they'll do a garbage deal like the Rotoworld rumor suggesting Rodrigo Lopez. This article seems to suggest that the Cubs are more interested in Baltimore's young pitching.

 

Hoops

[don_kessinger_was_good]

We should just stop trading with Baltimore...

 

Why?

 

Cubs always seem to get the VERY short end of the stick when they trade with Baltimore.

 

What has Baltimore received from the Cubs?

 

A broken down Sosa, and a CF who still can't get on base.

 

I guess I fail to see the robbery.

 

Corey Patterson is clearly a fatally flawed player, but he is major league talent with some very definite skills--strong defense, outstanding speed, occasional power. In exchange, the Cubs were given one of the worst non-prospects I think I've ever seen in such a trade in Nate Spears, who is not just bad, he is putrid and will never reach even AA ball.

 

That qualifies as robbery.

[CuseCubFan69]

I wanted the Cubs to trade Prior and others for Tejada last year along with signing Lofton instead of trading for Pierre. Now, the Cubs could have thrown all the pitchers they traded to Florida plus Pie, Jones and others for Cabrera or another major impact hitter or pitcher. Now, it's damage control and hope they have enough money to fill the major holes they have.

[BigbadB]

I guess I fail to see the robbery.

 

If you wish to use hindsight in viewing trades, I suppose I could see where you miss the robbery.

 

I admit that the Cubs front office is more to blame for these deals than the Orioles. They couldn't have reduced the value of the those two players any more than they did prior to their trades.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

From the Baltimore Sun:

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles04dec04,0,5912281.story?page=2&coll=bal-sports-headlines

 

 

"The Orioles discussed swapping Lopez for Milwaukee Brewers outfielder Kevin Mench earlier this offseason, but the deal is no longer on the table, according to a source familiar with the talks. There also have been talks with the Cubs about left-handed-hitting outfielder Jacque Jones, but no deal appears imminent as the Cubs are also looking at the Orioles' young pitching."

 

While I do believe the Cubs are focusing very hard on trading Jones, I don' think they'll do a garbage deal like the Rotoworld rumor suggesting Rodrigo Lopez. This article seems to suggest that the Cubs are more interested in Baltimore's young pitching.

 

Hoops

 

Other than Tejada, there is no one on the Orioles likely available that I want. Don't waste your valuable time barking up this tree again JH--trade with other clubs, please.

[Bruno7481]

I guess I fail to see the robbery.

 

If you wish to use hindsight in viewing trades, I suppose I could see where you miss the robbery.

 

I admit that the Cubs front office is more to blame for these deals than the Orioles. They couldn't have reduced the value of the those two players any more than they did prior to their trades.

 

Whhat else should you use besides hindsight? Isn't that how all trades are ultimately judged?

 

Corey Patterson reduced his own value, the Cubs didn't have to do anymore. Same with Sosa.

[Soul]

Am I the only person who never, EVER wants to see Mateo, Guzman, Gallagher or Marshall every pitch another inning for the Cubs again?

 

yeah, i'd much rather pay gil meche 4/$40 to put up a 4.50 era than pay marshall $300k to put up a 4.70 era.

 

Marshall putting up a 4.70 would be quite the improvement.

 

Marshall: 125 2/3 ip 1.52 WHIP 5.59 ERA

 

Marmol: 77 IP 1.69 WHIP 6.08 ERA

 

Guzman: 56 IP 1.88 WHIP 7.39 ERA

 

Mateo: 45 2/3 IP 1.62 WHIP 5.32 ERA

 

Smallish sample size, but none of their peripherals were at all impressive (other than Guzman's K/9, which still wasn't spectacular), and I don't see much that would lead me to believe that any of them would improve to even Gil Meche levels next season. They were all bad, really bad. If Guzman could stay healthy and get it together he could be good, but I personally don't believe he will.

 

Counting on any of these guys next season would be just the type of irresponsible behavior that Hendry has been blasted for in the past. YES, a guy like Gil Meche is probably a better bet than any of the kids we saw last season, save Rich Hill. Sure Meche is no superstar, but he has never posted numbers as bad any of the four kids did in 2006.

 

Even if we sign Schmidt (which is far from a given), the rotation would look like this:

 

Zambrano

Schmidt

Hill (borderline ?)

Miller (?)

Prior (?)

Mateo/Marshall/Guzman/Marmol (????)

 

Unfortunately, at least one Lilly/Meche guy will have to be signed, or a Jennings/Westbrook traded for. I would like to see one of the kids get a chance, but with all the potential question marks we have in the rotation, I don't see how that would be even a remotely good idea.

 

Is it worth 10 million compared to 370K? Probably not, but it's not our money. Pitching is at a premium right now, and unfortunately the Cubs need it.

 

All good points. I thought Marshall looked pretty good for a few starts last year. Not saying that means he's great, but I think he's got a chance.

 

If it comes down to having to plug in Sean or Angel in as the #5 guy, then I think we're alright. If we start needing to put both in the rotation, then yeah it starts to look pretty thin.

[XZero771679666304]

Am I the only person who never, EVER wants to see Mateo, Guzman, Gallagher or Marshall every pitch another inning for the Cubs again?

 

yeah, i'd much rather pay gil meche 4/$40 to put up a 4.50 era than pay marshall $300k to put up a 4.70 era.

 

Marshall putting up a 4.70 would be quite the improvement.

 

Marshall: 125 2/3 ip 1.52 WHIP 5.59 ERA

 

Marmol: 77 IP 1.69 WHIP 6.08 ERA

 

Guzman: 56 IP 1.88 WHIP 7.39 ERA

 

Mateo: 45 2/3 IP 1.62 WHIP 5.32 ERA

 

Smallish sample size, but none of their peripherals were at all impressive (other than Guzman's K/9, which still wasn't spectacular), and I don't see much that would lead me to believe that any of them would improve to even Gil Meche levels next season. They were all bad, really bad. If Guzman could stay healthy and get it together he could be good, but I personally don't believe he will.

 

Counting on any of these guys next season would be just the type of irresponsible behavior that Hendry has been blasted for in the past. YES, a guy like Gil Meche is probably a better bet than any of the kids we saw last season, save Rich Hill. Sure Meche is no superstar, but he has never posted numbers as bad any of the four kids did in 2006.

 

Even if we sign Schmidt (which is far from a given), the rotation would look like this:

 

Zambrano

Schmidt

Hill (borderline ?)

Miller (?)

Prior (?)

Mateo/Marshall/Guzman/Marmol (????)

 

Unfortunately, at least one Lilly/Meche guy will have to be signed, or a Jennings/Westbrook traded for. I would like to see one of the kids get a chance, but with all the potential question marks we have in the rotation, I don't see how that would be even a remotely good idea.

 

Is it worth 10 million compared to 370K? Probably not, but it's not our money. Pitching is at a premium right now, and unfortunately the Cubs need it.

 

All good points. I thought Marshall looked pretty good for a few starts last year. Not saying that means he's great, but I think he's got a chance.

 

If it comes down to having to plug in Sean or Angel in as the #5 guy, then I think we're alright. If we start needing to put both in the rotation, then yeah it starts to look pretty thin.

 

I think that the bottom line is that two pitchers need to be acquired.

[goonys evil twin]

I guess I fail to see the robbery.

 

If you wish to use hindsight in viewing trades, I suppose I could see where you miss the robbery.

 

I admit that the Cubs front office is more to blame for these deals than the Orioles. They couldn't have reduced the value of the those two players any more than they did prior to their trades.

 

Whhat else should you use besides hindsight? Isn't that how all trades are ultimately judged?

 

Corey Patterson reduced his own value, the Cubs didn't have to do anymore. Same with Sosa.

 

The Cubs didn't have to do anymore, but they did.