2007 Hall of Fame Ballots: Gwynn & Ripken Inducted

[SouthSideRyan]

I lean towards Belle not being a hall of famer.(Longevity has to come into play, and Belle, other than a pretty great 7 year run has nothing to supplement it.) But he definitely should have lasted past his first year.

 

And thank God Garvey is finally off the ballot.

[OleMissCub]

Albert Belle deserves more love.

 

He had very good numbers, but apparently needed to show a little more love.

 

What do you mean? Just because he chased a heckling fan in the stands, destroyed a bathroom, hit a fan and a photographer with balls thrown into the stands, charged the mound numerous times, verbally destroyed NBC reporter Hannah Storm, chased egg-throwing teenagers in his car on Halloween, basically murdered Fernando Vina, and stalked his ex-girlfriend doesn't mean anything. :-D

 

Nope, it doesn't mean anything unless you cheated on the field. Hell, Ty Cobb makes Albert Belle look like Mr. Rogers.

[BigSlick]

I lean towards Belle not being a hall of famer.(Longevity has to come into play, and Belle, other than a pretty great 7 year run has nothing to supplement it.) But he definitely should have lasted past his first year.

 

And thank God Garvey is finally off the ballot.

 

We'll agree to disagree.

 

Albert Belle has just as good a case as Ron Santo does.

[frostwyrm]

I think eventually the voters will let McGwire in, but first they will register their contempt by snubbing him for a few years. We'll probably see an unofficial "decree through grapevine" to specify the year when the voters finally allow the steroid monsters in.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Which one of these is a HOFer?

 

Player A: 266 BA, 359 OBP, 489 SLG, 132 OPS+, 374 HR, 1159 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player B: 279 BA, 398 OBP, 548 SLG, 149 OPS+, 369 HR, 1015 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player C: 318 BA, 360 OBP, 477 SLG, 124 OPS+, 207 HR, 1085 RBI, 10X AS, 6 GG

 

Player D: 295 BA, 369 OBP, 564 SLG, 143 OPS+, 381 HR, 1239 RBI, 5X AS, 1 POY award

 

And which ones should be?

Edited January 10, 2007 by vance_the_cubs_fan

[abuck1220]

Albert Belle deserves more love.

 

He had very good numbers, but apparently needed to show a little more love.

 

What do you mean? Just because he chased a heckling fan in the stands, destroyed a bathroom, hit a fan and a photographer with balls thrown into the stands, charged the mound numerous times, verbally destroyed NBC reporter Hannah Storm, chased egg-throwing teenagers in his car on Halloween, basically murdered Fernando Vina, and stalked his ex-girlfriend doesn't mean anything. :-D

 

Nope, it doesn't mean anything unless you cheated on the field. Hell, Ty Cobb makes Albert Belle look like Mr. Rogers.

 

belle did cheat on the field.

[Guest]

Which one of these is a HOFer?

 

Player A: 266 BA, 359 OBP, 489 SLG, 132 OPS+, 374 HR, 1159 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player B: 279 BA, 398 OBP, 548 SLG, 149 OPS+, 369 HR, 1015 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player C: 318 BA, 360 OBP, 477 SLG, 124 OPS+, 207 HR, 1085 RBI, 10X AS, 6 GG

 

Player D: 295 BA, 369 OBP, 564 SLG, 143 OPS+, 381 HR, 1239 RBI, 5X AS, 1 POY award

 

And which ones should be?

Gotta know position there, chief!

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Which one of these is a HOFer?

 

Player A: 266 BA, 359 OBP, 489 SLG, 132 OPS+, 374 HR, 1159 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player B: 279 BA, 398 OBP, 548 SLG, 149 OPS+, 369 HR, 1015 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player C: 318 BA, 360 OBP, 477 SLG, 124 OPS+, 207 HR, 1085 RBI, 10X AS, 6 GG

 

Player D: 295 BA, 369 OBP, 564 SLG, 143 OPS+, 381 HR, 1239 RBI, 5X AS, 1 POY award

 

And which ones should be?

Gotta know position there, chief!

 

All were OF. Player C was a CF. The other three were corner OF.

[Illini Iceman]

Is Tim Raines the only big name guy to get added to the ballot next year?

 

If so, Gossage should almost surely get in next year. Maybe Rice also sneaks in, but I don't see Raines making it in the first year (if at all).

 

Rickey Henderson is eligible in 2009 and he seems like a sure thing first ballot guy even though he was a first class jerk.

[Guest]

Which one of these is a HOFer?

 

Player A: 266 BA, 359 OBP, 489 SLG, 132 OPS+, 374 HR, 1159 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player B: 279 BA, 398 OBP, 548 SLG, 149 OPS+, 369 HR, 1015 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player C: 318 BA, 360 OBP, 477 SLG, 124 OPS+, 207 HR, 1085 RBI, 10X AS, 6 GG

 

Player D: 295 BA, 369 OBP, 564 SLG, 143 OPS+, 381 HR, 1239 RBI, 5X AS, 1 POY award

 

And which ones should be?

Gotta know position there, chief!

 

All were OF. Player C was a CF. The other three were corner OF.

Assuming those GG were earned, then that defensive value makes up for a lot. And those numbers are pretty solid relative to position. If you looked up a WARP rate for that player, I'd bet that he rated pretty solid. He's probably your HOF guy.

 

As corner OF's, the others aren't slam dunks. (from here on I've cheated and looked them up)

 

Player A didn't really have the longevity required. His peak wasn't really high enough or sustained enough, either.

Player B is another HOF'er, btw -- you have two.

Player D just didn't have the longevity and was an overall cur!

[OleMissCub]

Which one of these is a HOFer?

 

Player A: 266 BA, 359 OBP, 489 SLG, 132 OPS+, 374 HR, 1159 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player B: 279 BA, 398 OBP, 548 SLG, 149 OPS+, 369 HR, 1015 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player C: 318 BA, 360 OBP, 477 SLG, 124 OPS+, 207 HR, 1085 RBI, 10X AS, 6 GG

 

Player D: 295 BA, 369 OBP, 564 SLG, 143 OPS+, 381 HR, 1239 RBI, 5X AS, 1 POY award

 

And which ones should be?

Gotta know position there, chief!

 

era would be important to know as well

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Which one of these is a HOFer?

 

Player A: 266 BA, 359 OBP, 489 SLG, 132 OPS+, 374 HR, 1159 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player B: 279 BA, 398 OBP, 548 SLG, 149 OPS+, 369 HR, 1015 RBI, 6X AS

 

Player C: 318 BA, 360 OBP, 477 SLG, 124 OPS+, 207 HR, 1085 RBI, 10X AS, 6 GG

 

Player D: 295 BA, 369 OBP, 564 SLG, 143 OPS+, 381 HR, 1239 RBI, 5X AS, 1 POY award

 

And which ones should be?

Gotta know position there, chief!

 

era would be important to know as well

 

OPS+ should neutralize for era.

 

And Tim is right. Two are HOF and and two are not.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Albert Belle deserves more love.

 

He had very good numbers, but apparently needed to show a little more love.

 

What do you mean? Just because he chased a heckling fan in the stands, destroyed a bathroom, hit a fan and a photographer with balls thrown into the stands, charged the mound numerous times, verbally destroyed NBC reporter Hannah Storm, chased egg-throwing teenagers in his car on Halloween, basically murdered Fernando Vina, and stalked his ex-girlfriend doesn't mean anything. :-D

 

Don't forget that he corked his bat and it was somehow stolen from the umps and then returned.

 

And I won't have anyone knocking Jay Buhner. Back around 1995, I thought he was so cool.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

hahaha, Hannah Storm, Jay Buhner, Greg Hibbard, Jason Alexander, it's like Retro night.

[Guest]

hahaha, Hannah Storm, Jay Buhner, Greg Hibbard, Jason Alexander, it's like Retro night.

I said, don't be dissn' Steve Trout! :D

[Coach C]

Ripken gets the highest percentage vote of any position player

 

He got a higher percentage of votes than BABE RUTH did.

 

Somebody explain that one, please.

[SouthSideRyan]

Ripken gets the highest percentage vote of any position player

 

He got a higher percentage of votes than BABE RUTH did.

 

Somebody explain that one, please.

 

Ruth had ridiculous competition on his ballot and Ripken didn't.

[NewUserName]

Ripken gets the highest percentage vote of any position player

 

He got a higher percentage of votes than BABE RUTH did.

 

Somebody explain that one, please.

 

Ruth had ridiculous competition on his ballot and Ripken didn't.

 

 

Personnally I think that Ripken is the most overrated player in baseball history. This is not to say he shouldnt be in the HOF. I dont think he is a first ballot HOFer though

 

He set a record that really doesnt have a lot to do with winning baseball games. I would go as far as saying that setting the record may have hindered his teams ability to win baseball games. Though he has over 3000 hits, he was far short of being one of baseballs dominate players after 1984. He only played on 1 WS champion. I dont think he ever led the league in any major offensive categories(I didnt look this up just doing out of memory so may be wrong).

 

I think he is a great guy and certainly does deserve to be in the Hall. He just isnt even one of baseballs 50 best players ever. I think he is regarded for his personality more than his performance though.

 

 

edit: As an example of what I am trying to say is Ripken isnt close to being as great of a player as Rickey Henderson and I think Henderson will struggle to make the HOF on his first ballot.

[bhogg]

Ricky B Ricky won't have any trouble when Ricky Henderson is eligible for induction during the year of Ricky's eligibilty.

 

With Ripken, he was so out of the ordinary during his era. He was a offensive force at SS when SS's weren't any kind of offensive threat.

 

I also think people blow the theory of "cal hurt his team by extending the streak" out of proportion. If he was available to play, why the heck would he not play? He was always the best option and he was always available.

 

No one gives Gherig crap for his streak, right? I'm sure there were days when he wasnt 100% but he played anyway.

[NewUserName]

Ricky B Ricky won't have any trouble when Ricky Henderson is eligible for induction during the year of Ricky's eligibilty.

 

With Ripken, he was so out of the ordinary during his era. He was a offensive force at SS when SS's weren't any kind of offensive threat.

 

I also think people blow the theory of "cal hurt his team by extending the streak" out of proportion. If he was available to play, why the heck would he not play? He was always the best option and he was always available.

 

No one gives Gherig crap for his streak, right? I'm sure there were days when he wasnt 100% but he played anyway.

 

 

He played in the same era as Alan Trammell who was probably his equal offensively when healthy.

 

I would say there was a dramatic decline in his numbers following 1984. Was this due to the steak? Who knows. I would just say that the streak isnt as great of a lifetime achievement as things like runs scored, hits, hrs, rbis, wins. These things have value that are measureable that help a team win. Consecitive games played value isnt measureable when it comes to helping a team win.

 

I dont give Gehrig crap for his game played streak because he isnt nearly overrated of a player as Ripken is.

 

Again I think Ripken belongs in the hall, I just dont think he is a first ballot HOFer and not anywhere near as great as a lot of baseball people and sportswriters would contend.

[Chris]

Again I think Ripken belongs in the hall, I just dont think he is a first ballot HOFer and not anywhere near as great as a lot of baseball people and sportswriters would contend.

 

Seriously?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Again I think Ripken belongs in the hall, I just dont think he is a first ballot HOFer and not anywhere near as great as a lot of baseball people and sportswriters would contend.

 

Seriously?

 

Career .276/.340/.447/.787, 112 OPS+ doesn't exactly scream baseball legend to me, even accounting for his position.

[Chris]

Again I think Ripken belongs in the hall, I just dont think he is a first ballot HOFer and not anywhere near as great as a lot of baseball people and sportswriters would contend.

 

Seriously?

 

Career .276/.340/.447/.787, 112 OPS+ doesn't exactly scream baseball legend to me, even accounting for his position.

 

I guess this brings about a discussion on whether longevity and/or accomplishments has an impact on the selection process.

[OleMissCub]

Again I think Ripken belongs in the hall, I just dont think he is a first ballot HOFer and not anywhere near as great as a lot of baseball people and sportswriters would contend.

 

Seriously?

 

Career .276/.340/.447/.787, 112 OPS+ doesn't exactly scream baseball legend to me, even accounting for his position.

 

Did you know his career fielding percentage was higher than Ozzie Smith's?

 

Speaking of fielding percentages, I was just looking at Omar Vizquel's stats. If Ozzie Smith is in the hall of fame then so should Vizquel. Omar's lifetime fielding percentage is .6 higher than Ozzie's. He's already got more hits than Smith ever had, and his lifetime .BA is 14 points higher.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

To clarify, I'm not saying Ripken shouldn't be in the Hall. I'm just saying that it's not so crazy that people think he shouldn't be a "First ballot" or "Unanimous" selection.