ESPN 1000 - Cubs are going after Schmidt next

[TruffleShuffle]

Hmm.... ... is 4/60 too much?

 

Yes, but it needs to be done.

 

4/60 for Schmidt is insane.

 

No, 5/55 for Darren Dreifort is insane. 4/60 for Schmidt is overpaying to get a good pitcher.

 

Not when he is 34yrs old and breaking down.

 

huh, I must have missed that breaking down during his 32 start, 213 inning, 125 ERA+, All-Star season. I need to pay more attention.

[killthegoat06]

Bob Nightengale was on Charley Steiner's XM radio show a couple of hours ago (noonish CT?). He said the pitching market was heating up and that he expected a slew of signings leading into and during the winter meetings. He expects Jason Schmidt to sign next week and said the Cubs were the favorites in his opinion. Seattle doesn't seem willing to match the dollar amounts being tossed around and, although the Dodgers seem interested, it's hard to gauge how interested they are.

 

Nightengale also said he thought Zito would sign later.

 

Oh man I hope you're right.

 

Zambrano?

Schmidt?

Hill?

Westbrook?

Miller (with prior on the background)?

 

Pitchingasm.

 

Honestly, if you get Schmidt, Westbrook, and a decent SS, you probably have a team that could compete with the mets for the best in the NL when healthy.

 

 

:roll:

 

I don't know why you would roll your eyes at that.

 

Because since 2003 that has been the story of the cubs.

 

I should have said: Here we go again ... :roll:

 

Yeah that would've made sense. I thought you were rolling your eyes at what Jazz said about us competing with the Mets next year.

 

Nope. I agree with that.

[baseball7897]

Hmm.... ... is 4/60 too much?

 

Yes, but it needs to be done.

 

4/60 for Schmidt is insane.

 

No, 5/55 for Darren Dreifort is insane. 4/60 for Schmidt is overpaying to get a good pitcher.

 

Not when he is 34yrs old and breaking down.

 

huh, I must have missed that breaking down during his 32 start, 213 inning, 125 ERA+, All-Star season. I need to pay more attention.

 

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Hmm.... ... is 4/60 too much?

 

Yes, but it needs to be done.

 

4/60 for Schmidt is insane.

 

No, 5/55 for Darren Dreifort is insane. 4/60 for Schmidt is overpaying to get a good pitcher.

 

Not when he is 34yrs old and breaking down.

 

huh, I must have missed that breaking down during his 32 start, 213 inning, 125 ERA+, All-Star season. I need to pay more attention.

 

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

Schmidt is still a better fit than Zito or any of the other FA pitchers.

[baseball7897]

Hmm.... ... is 4/60 too much?

 

Yes, but it needs to be done.

 

4/60 for Schmidt is insane.

 

No, 5/55 for Darren Dreifort is insane. 4/60 for Schmidt is overpaying to get a good pitcher.

 

Not when he is 34yrs old and breaking down.

 

huh, I must have missed that breaking down during his 32 start, 213 inning, 125 ERA+, All-Star season. I need to pay more attention.

 

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

Schmidt is still a better fit than Zito or any of the other FA pitchers.

 

I understand that. Im just worried about his health. He has been taking a beating under Felipe. I would have a problem giving him anything longer than 2 years.

[TruffleShuffle]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

[imb]

aren't there ever any midwestern superstars who want to stay in the midwest?

 

Griffey!

[cubs121]

aren't there ever any midwestern superstars who want to stay in the midwest?

 

Griffey!

:shock: really?

[ThePenguin11]

I don't think Hendry or anyone in the front office cares about a long-term deal involving Schmidt or any SP for that matter. Judging by the contract signed by Soriano (which is totally backloaded for future ownership), they're thinking about acquiring talent now to make this a desirable team for potential suitors looking to purchase the ball club. I could see Hendry offering 4 years / 60 million and making it $12M / $14M / $16M / $18M in order to get the deal done and keep this year's payroll (and next year - the last of Hendry's contract BTW) as low as possible. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to see a fifth year added if absolutely necessary. It would look something like this $12M/$14M/$15M/$16M/$18M - totaling $75M.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Hmm.... ... is 4/60 too much?

 

Yes, but it needs to be done.

 

4/60 for Schmidt is insane.

 

No, 5/55 for Darren Dreifort is insane. 4/60 for Schmidt is overpaying to get a good pitcher.

 

Not when he is 34yrs old and breaking down.

 

huh, I must have missed that breaking down during his 32 start, 213 inning, 125 ERA+, All-Star season. I need to pay more attention.

 

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

Schmidt is still a better fit than Zito or any of the other FA pitchers.

 

I understand that. Im just worried about his health. He has been taking a beating under Felipe. I would have a problem giving him anything longer than 2 years.

 

 

While 2 years would be nice, he's not going to sign for that. In this market, you have to overpay. I'd rather give Schmidt 4/60 than pay Jeff Suppan 4/36. The Cubs need a pitcher. I'd prefer to add one ace through FA than give up the few trading chips we have for a Westbrook type and then have to overspend on Suppan, Meche, or Padilla.

 

Would I like Schmidt plus one of those...of course. Is it overpaying? Yes. Is it a risk? Yes.

 

But the Cubs apparently have the money and adding Schmidt to a rotation of Zambrano, Hill, Prior, and Miller/Marshall/Mateo likely makes us the favorite in the NL Central.

 

Go get him.

[CubinNY]

I don't think Hendry or anyone in the front office cares about a long-term deal involving Schmidt or any SP for that matter. Judging by the contract signed by Soriano (which is totally backloaded for future ownership), they're thinking about acquiring talent now to make this a desirable team for potential suitors looking to purchase the ball club. I could see Hendry offering 4 years / 60 million and making it $12M / $14M / $16M / $18M in order to get the deal done and keep this year's payroll (and next year - the last of Hendry's contract BTW) as low as possible. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to see a fifth year added if absolutely necessary. It would look something like this $12M/$14M/$15M/$16M/$18M - totaling $75M.

 

That sounds reasonable, but accouding to Bruce Miles the Cubs are looking for 2 SP, if they pony up that much money for Shmidt that may preclude signing another with the going rate for mediocre pitching being what it is.

 

However, the Cubs seem to be spending like a sailor on shore leave this year so...

[imb]

aren't there ever any midwestern superstars who want to stay in the midwest?

 

Griffey!

:shock: really?

 

Oh yeah, how do you think he ended up in Cincinnati?

[baseball7897]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

[TruffleShuffle]

Hmm.... ... is 4/60 too much?

 

Yes, but it needs to be done.

 

4/60 for Schmidt is insane.

 

No, 5/55 for Darren Dreifort is insane. 4/60 for Schmidt is overpaying to get a good pitcher.

 

Not when he is 34yrs old and breaking down.

 

huh, I must have missed that breaking down during his 32 start, 213 inning, 125 ERA+, All-Star season. I need to pay more attention.

 

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

Schmidt is still a better fit than Zito or any of the other FA pitchers.

 

I understand that. Im just worried about his health. He has been taking a beating under Felipe. I would have a problem giving him anything longer than 2 years.

 

 

While 2 years would be nice, he's not going to sign for that. In this market, you have to overpay. I'd rather give Schmidt 4/60 than pay Jeff Suppan 4/36. The Cubs need a pitcher. I'd prefer to add one ace through FA than give up the few trading chips we have for a Westbrook type and then have to overspend on Suppan, Meche, or Padilla.

 

Would I like Schmidt plus one of those...of course. Is it overpaying? Yes. Is it a risk? Yes.

 

But the Cubs apparently have the money and adding Schmidt to a rotation of Zambrano, Hill, Prior, and Miller/Marshall/Mateo likely makes us the favorite in the NL Central.

 

Go get him.

 

Plus if he goes downhill after 2-3 years, you've made your improvements through free agency, so you haven't squandered your best pitching prospects like Veal, Gallagher and Pawelek. You'd hope that somebody would be able to step in and help at that point.

[TruffleShuffle]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

throwing less hard makes a pitcher hurt his shoulder? interesting.

[killthegoat06]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

throwing less hard makes a pitcher hurt his shoulder? interesting.

 

no. It's a symptom of shoulder injury.

[E.J.]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

throwing less hard makes a pitcher hurt his shoulder? interesting.

 

no. It's a symptom of shoulder injury.

 

Maddux used to throw in the 90's. Haven't seen him come close in quite some time, yet I've never heard a thing about him having a shoulder injury. People lose velocity when they get older.

[Vinestal]

Vance wrote:

While 2 years would be nice, he's not going to sign for that. In this market, you have to overpay. I'd rather give Schmidt 4/60 than pay Jeff Suppan 4/36. The Cubs need a pitcher. I'd prefer to add one ace through FA than give up the few trading chips we have for a Westbrook type and then have to overspend on Suppan, Meche, or Padilla.

 

Would I like Schmidt plus one of those...of course. Is it overpaying? Yes. Is it a risk? Yes.

 

But the Cubs apparently have the money and adding Schmidt to a rotation of Zambrano, Hill, Prior, and Miller/Marshall/Mateo likely makes us the favorite in the NL Central.

 

Go get him.

 

It may not be a matter of offering him X amount of dollars, he may be dead set on staying on the west coast. I hope Hendry at least tries to get him with a bigger offer than LA or Seattle can offer. Im not crazy about giving Schimdt a long term contract and over paying either but its much more attractive to me than signing mediocrity, which we already have plenty of.

[ThePenguin11]

I don't think Hendry or anyone in the front office cares about a long-term deal involving Schmidt or any SP for that matter. Judging by the contract signed by Soriano (which is totally backloaded for future ownership), they're thinking about acquiring talent now to make this a desirable team for potential suitors looking to purchase the ball club. I could see Hendry offering 4 years / 60 million and making it $12M / $14M / $16M / $18M in order to get the deal done and keep this year's payroll (and next year - the last of Hendry's contract BTW) as low as possible. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to see a fifth year added if absolutely necessary. It would look something like this $12M/$14M/$15M/$16M/$18M - totaling $75M.

 

That sounds reasonable, but accouding to Bruce Miles the Cubs are looking for 2 SP, if they pony up that much money for Shmidt that may preclude signing another with the going rate for mediocre pitching being what it is.

 

However, the Cubs seem to be spending like a sailor on shore leave this year so...

 

The point of those figures is that they'll be saving money now in order to get more talent. They won't care about payroll four or five years from now. That's got to be why Soriano's contract is only paying him $9M (not to mention the 8 years) in 2007, why not /EDIT: follow suit/ with any other contracts they negotiate?

Edited November 30, 2006 by ThePenguin11

[baseball7897]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

throwing less hard makes a pitcher hurt his shoulder? interesting.

 

no. It's a symptom of shoulder injury.

 

Maddux used to throw in the 90's. Haven't seen him come close in quite some time, yet I've never heard a thing about him having a shoulder injury. People lose velocity when they get older.

 

When did Maddux throw in the 90's?

 

You never hear him having a shoulder injury because his mechanics are top of the line.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

How many Schmidt starts did you see last season?

[CubinNY]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

throwing less hard makes a pitcher hurt his shoulder? interesting.

 

no. It's a symptom of shoulder injury.

 

he threw over 200 innings last year.

 

Shmidt is a fastball/change up pitcher. Although I don't like the abuse he's taken over the last several years those types of pitchers are very durable.

 

BTW where does the "decrease in stride length and decrease in velocity" come from? I mean on what information is this observation based?

[baseball7897]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

How many Schmidt starts did you see last season?

 

The ones he made against the Cubs. Not to mention the video anyalsis I have on him from a pitching program.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

How many Schmidt starts did you see last season?

 

The ones he made against the Cubs. Not to mention the video anyalsis I have on him from a pitching program.

 

So, two of his 32 then.

[Rob]

FWIW, guys with a killer fastball-changeup combo seem to succeed more than they should as they get older, even when they start to lose their velocity.

 

Schmidt made the adjustment a while ago so that he's not trying to blow every hitter away. It's all about timing with him now. If we have to go to four years to get him, I would agree to it in a heartbeat. We can always eat a chunk of the salary and get a servicable prospect or two for him in a couple years if he breaks down.