Bruce: Cubs to make hard push for Soriano soon

[Soul]

His best year OPS wise before last year was .879, which is decent but not great.

 

I guess I just don't see the point of paying upwards of 16-17 million a year for this production based on a contract year performance...

 

I think the point is, the Cubs are desperate. And the only thing they have going for them is their cash. Soriano at a huge deal isn't ideal. He's not as good as the true elites that make the big bucks, but the Cubs already missed out on most of those guys. They need some offense. And if you're going to overpay, you might as well overpay for somebody who at least has a chance to put up some great seasons.

 

Riding on your coat-tails, it's kinda funny that the Cubs chose this year to spend big bucks when the market is so thin. They couldn't do it when Beltran and Vlad was out there...Only the Cubs!

 

And the Cards picked their worst team in a decade to win the World Series with.

 

A tale of two cities, indeed.

[CubmanPi]

Shortening his name to Alf makes me shudder, and I think it can only mean bad things will come of him if we end up signing him. Can we shorten it to something better, like the Fonz?

[killthegoat06]

If we sign Soriano, would we be done with the offense? A lineup of

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis

 

Is better than last yr assuming everyone stays healthy, but it is probably not good enough considering the pitchers we're looking at to be our 2-3 starters (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, Marquis).

[ChiCubsFan]

If we sign Soriano, would we be done with the offense? A lineup of

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis

 

Is better than last yr assuming everyone stays healthy, but it is probably not good enough considering the pitchers we're looking at to be our 2-3 starters (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, Marquis).

 

Switch Murton and DeRosa.

[Soul]

If we sign Soriano, would we be done with the offense? A lineup of

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis

 

Is better than last yr assuming everyone stays healthy, but it is probably not good enough considering the pitchers we're looking at to be our 2-3 starters (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, Marquis).

 

I don't think it's enough. There's still only 2 legit power threats in Lee & Ram in the middle of the order. I agree with the pitching that seems to be shaping up (or lack thereof), this lineup wouldn't seem to be able to lift us to many victories----though it is better than last year.

 

Side note: I've always thought Barrett would shine best in the 2 hole rather than lower in the order.

[Tracer Bullet]

If we sign Soriano, would we be done with the offense? A lineup of

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis

 

Is better than last yr assuming everyone stays healthy, but it is probably not good enough considering the pitchers we're looking at to be our 2-3 starters (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, Marquis).

 

Switch Murton and DeRosa.

 

And then platoon DeRosa with Jones and let Theriot play 2nd. Or move Soriano back to 2nd and sign JD Drew.

 

No, I wouldn't stop tinkering after signing Soriano. Izturis, DeRosa, and the P (other than Z) potentially give us 3 big black holes in the lineup.

[Sammy Sofa]

If we sign Soriano, would we be done with the offense? A lineup of

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis

 

Is better than last yr assuming everyone stays healthy, but it is probably not good enough considering the pitchers we're looking at to be our 2-3 starters (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, Marquis).

 

I don't think it's enough. There's still only 2 legit power threats in Lee & Ram in the middle of the order. I agree with the pitching that seems to be shaping up (or lack thereof), this lineup wouldn't seem to be able to lift us to many victories----though it is better than last year.

 

Side note: I've always thought Barrett would shine best in the 2 hole rather than lower in the order.

 

I agree 110% about Barrett. Bat him #2 and when he sits slit Murton in there.

[moorecg]

If we sign Soriano, would we be done with the offense? A lineup of

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis

 

Is better than last yr assuming everyone stays healthy, but it is probably not good enough considering the pitchers we're looking at to be our 2-3 starters (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, Marquis).

 

I don't think it's enough. There's still only 2 legit power threats in Lee & Ram in the middle of the order.

 

You've got to consider Jones a power threat don't you? He's not a #3 hitter, but for the 3rd or 4th bat in the lineup he's not bad. Barrett falls in as a quality bat too...its not the 27 yankees, but it has the potential to be pretty solid.

[abuck1220]

I have zero problem overpaying for Soriano as long as he hits leadoff. Anywhere else is a guarenteed letdown.

 

what difference does it make? he's either going to be productive or he's not.

 

 

the big thing about soriano's 2006 was his improved plate discipline. a low OBP is what kept his OPS down in previous seasons. i'm hoping he turned the corner discipline wise, b/c if he did, he at least has a chance at being worth all the money he's going to get.

[Danny82]

I have zero problem overpaying for Soriano as long as he hits leadoff. Anywhere else is a guarenteed letdown.

 

what difference does it make? he's either going to be productive or he's not.

 

 

the big thing about soriano's 2006 was his improved plate discipline. a low OBP is what kept his OPS down in previous seasons. i'm hoping he turned the corner discipline wise, b/c if he did, he at least has a chance at being worth all the money he's going to get.

Then how do you explain the huge difference in production when he bats anywhere else in the lineup?

[jjgman21]

I haven't commented on Soriano up til now because if the Cubs sign him I will be both annoyed and thrilled. alot of that annoyance has to do with everybody's assumption and Soriano's insistence that he is a leadoff hitter. his OBP is not high enough, and his SLG too high, to be a leadoff hitter.

 

I don't care that he has speed. he shouldn't be leading off. put DeRosa/Murton leadoff and DeRosa/Barrett/Murton in the two hole, in whatever combination you like. Then use Soriano in the six hole. that way he cleans the middle of the order up, and is a secondary table setter with his speed for the lower half of the lineup where runs will need to be manufactured.

[goonys evil twin]

I haven't commented on Soriano up til now because if the Cubs sign him I will be both annoyed and thrilled. alot of that annoyance has to do with everybody's assumption and Soriano's insistence that he is a leadoff hitter. his OBP is not high enough, and his SLG too high, to be a leadoff hitter.

 

I don't care that he has speed. he shouldn't be leading off. put DeRosa/Murton leadoff and DeRosa/Barrett/Murton in the two hole, in whatever combination you like. Then use Soriano in the six hole. that way he cleans the middle of the order up, and is a secondary table setter with his speed for the lower half of the lineup where runs will need to be manufactured.

 

You're absolutely right, but you're also most likely doomed to be let down. I feel, or have felt, just like you. But I've come to the conclusion that they're better off not hitting a guy in the ideal spot than simply not getting the guy. If you hit him leadoff, you probably aren't getting your money's worth. But, you're still probably getting a very productive hitter. And that's the key.

[Garwilly]

I haven't commented on Soriano up til now because if the Cubs sign him I will be both annoyed and thrilled. alot of that annoyance has to do with everybody's assumption and Soriano's insistence that he is a leadoff hitter. his OBP is not high enough, and his SLG too high, to be a leadoff hitter.

 

I don't care that he has speed. he shouldn't be leading off. put DeRosa/Murton leadoff and DeRosa/Barrett/Murton in the two hole, in whatever combination you like. Then use Soriano in the six hole. that way he cleans the middle of the order up, and is a secondary table setter with his speed for the lower half of the lineup where runs will need to be manufactured.

 

It's not that he has speed. Its that he is just so much more comfortable there. Look at the production by spot in the lineup. THat is why you see people pushing for him to lead off.

[USSoccer]

I haven't commented on Soriano up til now because if the Cubs sign him I will be both annoyed and thrilled. alot of that annoyance has to do with everybody's assumption and Soriano's insistence that he is a leadoff hitter. his OBP is not high enough, and his SLG too high, to be a leadoff hitter.

 

I don't care that he has speed. he shouldn't be leading off. put DeRosa/Murton leadoff and DeRosa/Barrett/Murton in the two hole, in whatever combination you like. Then use Soriano in the six hole. that way he cleans the middle of the order up, and is a secondary table setter with his speed for the lower half of the lineup where runs will need to be manufactured.

 

You're absolutely right, but you're also most likely doomed to be let down. I feel, or have felt, just like you. But I've come to the conclusion that they're better off not hitting a guy in the ideal spot than simply not getting the guy. If you hit him leadoff, you probably aren't getting your money's worth. But, you're still probably getting a very productive hitter. And that's the key.

 

If the metrics are to be believed, batting order won't have much of an effect on the number of runs we score anyway.

 

If we end up with Soriano or Drew, I'll be happy enough not to fret about where each of them hit.

[moorecg]

 

If the metrics are to be believed, batting order won't have much of an effect on the number of runs we score anyway.

 

If we end up with Soriano or Drew, I'll be happy enough not to fret about where each of them hit.

 

Ding Ding Ding.... we have a winner.

[abuck1220]

I have zero problem overpaying for Soriano as long as he hits leadoff. Anywhere else is a guarenteed letdown.

 

what difference does it make? he's either going to be productive or he's not.

 

 

the big thing about soriano's 2006 was his improved plate discipline. a low OBP is what kept his OPS down in previous seasons. i'm hoping he turned the corner discipline wise, b/c if he did, he at least has a chance at being worth all the money he's going to get.

Then how do you explain the huge difference in production when he bats anywhere else in the lineup?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Shortening his name to Alf makes me shudder, and I think it can only mean bad things will come of him if we end up signing him. Can we shorten it to something better, like the Fonz?

 

I always thought his nickname was Fonzie.

[CubColtPacer]

I have zero problem overpaying for Soriano as long as he hits leadoff. Anywhere else is a guarenteed letdown.

 

what difference does it make? he's either going to be productive or he's not.

 

 

the big thing about soriano's 2006 was his improved plate discipline. a low OBP is what kept his OPS down in previous seasons. i'm hoping he turned the corner discipline wise, b/c if he did, he at least has a chance at being worth all the money he's going to get.

Then how do you explain the huge difference in production when he bats anywhere else in the lineup?

 

That still doesn't explain his good numbers at leadoff in 2002 and 2003 though. In 02 and 03, he primarily batted leadoff and did well. In 04 and 05, he primarily did not bat leadoff and his numbers dropped. In 06, he returned to leadoff primarily and had a .956 OPS at leadoff, but only a .911 overall. It can never be conclusively proven that certain players play better in certain lineup spots, but Soriano has had a significantly higher OPS from the leadoff position then not in his career, and his leadoff numbers are significant better than his non-leadoff numbers in 4 out of the last 5 years (and the 1 year it wasn't was one of the 2 years where he had less then 100 AB's at leadoff). The middle of the order might be the best place to use Soriano's numbers, but it is probable that his numbers will drop batting later in the order.

[goonys evil twin]

That still doesn't explain his good numbers at leadoff in 2002 and 2003 though. In 02 and 03, he primarily batted leadoff and did well. In 04 and 05, he primarily did not bat leadoff and his numbers dropped. In 06, he returned to leadoff primarily and had a .956 OPS at leadoff, but only a .911 overall.

 

I remember quite vividly the end of the Soriano era in NY. He became an easy out, for a pitcher that chose to pitch him correctly. NYers were getting sick of his poor discipline. He started his career pretty hot, because he's talented as heck, but his numbers only stayed high because pitchers were so arrogant they thought they could go toe to toe with their stuff. But people started pounding him with sliders low and away. And if I remember correctly, he looked foolish facing the Cubs that year. By playoff time he was a sure out. He struck out like 20 something times in the playoffs because he swung at everything.

 

He was still hitting leadoff, most of the time. But NY was done with him as their leadoff guy by the end. He went to Tex, and never managed to get over his previous problem.

 

I don't believe it has anything to do with him being comfortable in leadoff. He was falling apart because of his approach. The fact that he struggled in Texas had nothing to do with spot in the order, it was because baseball figured him out and finally admitted they couldn't get him out in the strike zone, so they went away.

 

The improvement this year isn't because he got more comfortable in leadoff. It's because his approach was better.

[David]

 

The improvement this year isn't because he got more comfortable in leadoff. It's because his approach was better.

 

 

Which, admittedly, probably bodes well for his future. If he really did make an adjustment that turned some things around for him, he could be one of those guys that got by on raw talent, but never really figured it out, and then turns it around in his early 30's, ala Sosa and his change in approach in 98 (possible steroid use aside).

 

Holy long sentence.

 

Anyway, I can hope, right?

[Backtobanks]

If we sign Soriano, would we be done with the offense? A lineup of

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis

 

Is better than last yr assuming everyone stays healthy, but it is probably not good enough considering the pitchers we're looking at to be our 2-3 starters (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, Marquis).

 

I don't think it's enough. There's still only 2 legit power threats in Lee & Ram in the middle of the order.

 

You've got to consider Jones a power threat don't you? He's not a #3 hitter, but for the 3rd or 4th bat in the lineup he's not bad. Barrett falls in as a quality bat too...its not the 27 yankees, but it has the potential to be pretty solid.

 

With 6 out of the 8 guys in the lineup (minus Izturis and Derosa), you have the potential for 160 HRs. right there.

[Soul]

If we sign Soriano, would we be done with the offense? A lineup of

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis

 

Is better than last yr assuming everyone stays healthy, but it is probably not good enough considering the pitchers we're looking at to be our 2-3 starters (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, Marquis).

 

I don't think it's enough. There's still only 2 legit power threats in Lee & Ram in the middle of the order.

 

You've got to consider Jones a power threat don't you? He's not a #3 hitter, but for the 3rd or 4th bat in the lineup he's not bad. Barrett falls in as a quality bat too...its not the 27 yankees, but it has the potential to be pretty solid.

 

With 6 out of the 8 guys in the lineup (minus Izturis and Derosa), you have the potential for 160 HRs. right there.

 

The middle of that lineup just looks a tad weak to me. Put Barrett #2, hit Murton 6th, DeRosa 7th, and then replace Jones with a better player. I'd feel better about it.

 

Or just get some darn pitching 8)

[Magnetic Curses]

If we sign Soriano, would we be done with the offense? A lineup of

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Izturis

 

Is better than last yr assuming everyone stays healthy, but it is probably not good enough considering the pitchers we're looking at to be our 2-3 starters (Lilly, Padilla, Meche, Marquis).

 

I don't think it's enough. There's still only 2 legit power threats in Lee & Ram in the middle of the order.

 

You've got to consider Jones a power threat don't you? He's not a #3 hitter, but for the 3rd or 4th bat in the lineup he's not bad. Barrett falls in as a quality bat too...its not the 27 yankees, but it has the potential to be pretty solid.

 

With 6 out of the 8 guys in the lineup (minus Izturis and Derosa), you have the potential for 160 HRs. right there.

 

The middle of that lineup just looks a tad weak to me. Put Barrett #2, hit Murton 6th, DeRosa 7th, and then replace Jones with a better player. I'd feel better about it.

 

Or just get some darn pitching 8)

 

i've been advoacting the trade of jones, dempster, and marmol for freddy garcia for a while. westbrook would do, but we need to trade for a pitcher.

 

if we could get rid of jones, sign soriano and put drew in center and soriano in right, i'd be happy. the ability to include dempster in any deal for a starter would probably be necessary, though.

[Soul]

i've been advoacting the trade of jones, dempster, and marmol for freddy garcia for a while. westbrook would do, but we need to trade for a pitcher.

 

if we could get rid of jones, sign soriano and put drew in center and soriano in right, i'd be happy. the ability to include dempster in any deal for a starter would probably be necessary, though.

 

I don't have a problem including Dempster in a deal.

 

Would it really be that hard to replace him as closer? We got Dempster off the trash heap and made him a closer. Not all that hard to do something similar again. Certainly if it means acquiring an innings-eating SP----I'd trade him.

[MPrior]

i've been advoacting the trade of jones, dempster, and marmol for freddy garcia for a while. westbrook would do, but we need to trade for a pitcher.

 

if we could get rid of jones, sign soriano and put drew in center and soriano in right, i'd be happy. the ability to include dempster in any deal for a starter would probably be necessary, though.

 

I don't have a problem including Dempster in a deal.

 

Would it really be that hard to replace him as closer? We got Dempster off the trash heap and made him a closer. Not all that hard to do something similar again. Certainly if it means acquiring an innings-eating SP----I'd trade him.

 

Wuertz.