Ted Lilly = This Year's Bronson Arroyo?

[nilodnayr]

They're middle of the pack starters, probably a #3 on an avg. staff and a 4-5 on an above avg. staff. I think Lilly will be on the + side of 7 mil and Padilla will be on the - side of 7 mil.

 

Right now, the Cubs need a top of the rotation starter and a middle one.

Agreed. Matsuzaka and Lilly are my top choices in each category.

 

What in this thread has proved to you that Lilly is the top choice of the second tier starters, the high amount of fly balls and homeruns allowed, or the high walk rate?

 

Personally, this thread helped cement my opinion that neither one of them is likely to live up to their contract, and both should probably be avoided like the plague.

 

What tier II FA pitcher, or for that matter, tier I FA pitcher, or for that matter tier I or II FA position player is? Unfortunately we are in a time (worse than any other) where you have to severly overpay for mediocrity, which means that an increased emphasis on developing your own talent is absolutely necessary. Remember 3 years ago or so when all those #3 pitchers got 3/21 contracts? Now #4 pitchers like Suppan, Padilla, Lilly, Meche are projected to possibly get 4 years of 8-9M. The entire Florida Marlins team is going to cost less than most team's back end of the rotation.

[baseball7897]

I would take a gamble on Jason Marquis. I think a 1yr deal with an option for the second would be a good deal to consider. Maybe a trade for Horacio Ramirez would also be something Hendry should consider.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I would take a gamble on Jason Marquis. I think a 1yr deal with an option for the second would be a good deal to consider. Maybe a trade for Horacio Ramirez would also be something Hendry should consider.

 

I'd rather gamble with Marshall, Marmol, and Mateo than spend any money on Marquis.

[kroth1342]

I would take a gamble on Jason Marquis. I think a 1yr deal with an option for the second would be a good deal to consider. Maybe a trade for Horacio Ramirez would also be something Hendry should consider.

 

Some 3-yr trends for Jason Marquis:

 

Age: 25 - 26 - 27

ERA: 3.71 - 4.13 - 6.02

HR: 26 - 29 - 35

K: 138 - 100 - 96

STUFF: 8 - (-2) - (-5)

 

NO THANKS

[Neuby]

The Cubs have reached out to free agent Ted Lilly, and agent Larry O'Brien describes the club as an "intriguing" possibility.

Lilly, though, is believed to be want to pitch on the West Coast, perhaps with the Dodgers, Giants or Padres. His wife, Tasha, will be a third-year veterinary student at the University of California at Davis next season.

Source: FOXSports.com

[ChiCubsFan]

The Cubs have reached out to free agent Ted Lilly, and agent Larry O'Brien describes the club as an "intriguing" possibility.

Lilly, though, is believed to be want to pitch on the West Coast, perhaps with the Dodgers, Giants or Padres. His wife, Tasha, will be a third-year veterinary student at the University of California at Davis next season.

Source: FOXSports.com

 

That's probably a good thing he wants to stay on the West Coast.

[ChiCubsFan]

They're middle of the pack starters, probably a #3 on an avg. staff and a 4-5 on an above avg. staff. I think Lilly will be on the + side of 7 mil and Padilla will be on the - side of 7 mil.

 

Right now, the Cubs need a top of the rotation starter and a middle one.

Agreed. Matsuzaka and Lilly are my top choices in each category.

 

What in this thread has proved to you that Lilly is the top choice of the second tier starters, the high amount of fly balls and homeruns allowed, or the high walk rate?

 

Personally, this thread helped cement my opinion that neither one of them is likely to live up to their contract, and both should probably be avoided like the plague.

 

I couldn't agree more. Why burn 6-7mil on a pitcher who will do marginally better than someone like Marshall, Marmol, or Guzman. I don't want to rely on the kids and Miller and Prior, but I don't see a better choice. Hendry needs to do anything possible to sign one of the big 3 and hope that Hill continues the success he had last year and that Prior, Miller, Marmol, Marshall, and Guzman can hold down the 4th and 5th spots. I don't really see a better alternative.

 

Edit: I don't know if this has been discussed, but if Wood makes a successful transition to the bullpen, is it conceivable that Dempster could make a return to the roation if needed? I'd prefer to trade him for some more salary relief, but I don't think it'll happen. With Wuertz, Eyre, Howry, Ohman, and Wood all in the pen, Dempster isn't really needed. Would Dempster be much worse than Lilly or Padilla? Maybe he would, I dont know. I just really don't want to pay anything over 6 million for Padilla or Lilly.

[Vinestal]

They're middle of the pack starters, probably a #3 on an avg. staff and a 4-5 on an above avg. staff. I think Lilly will be on the + side of 7 mil and Padilla will be on the - side of 7 mil.

 

Right now, the Cubs need a top of the rotation starter and a middle one.

Agreed. Matsuzaka and Lilly are my top choices in each category.

 

What in this thread has proved to you that Lilly is the top choice of the second tier starters, the high amount of fly balls and homeruns allowed, or the high walk rate?

 

Personally, this thread helped cement my opinion that neither one of them is likely to live up to their contract, and both should probably be avoided like the plague.

 

I couldn't agree more. Why burn 6-7mil on a pitcher who will do marginally better than someone like Marshall, Marmol, or Guzman. I don't want to rely on the kids and Miller and Prior, but I don't see a better choice. Hendry needs to do anything possible to sign one of the big 3 and hope that Hill continues the success he had last year and that Prior, Miller, Marmol, Marshall, and Guzman can hold down the 4th and 5th spots. I don't really see a better alternative.

 

Edit: I don't know if this has been discussed, but if Wood makes a successful transition to the bullpen, is it conceivable that Dempster could make a return to the roation if needed? I'd prefer to trade him for some more salary relief, but I don't think it'll happen. With Wuertz, Eyre, Howry, Ohman, and Wood all in the pen, Dempster isn't really needed. Would Dempster be much worse than Lilly or Padilla? Maybe he would, I dont know. I just really don't want to pay anything over 6 million for Padilla or Lilly.

 

Your really going to be steamed then when they burn 10 mil per on Padilla. I think Hendry will go out and over pay for some back end type of starting pitcher so he doesnt look like he didnt try to improve the rotation by adding someone. I think he will have a hard time convincing Schimdt or Zito to come to Chicago and he has to do something so he'll sign some mediocre talent.

[kroth1342]

Uppin this platinum thread :mrgreen:

[YearofDaCubs]

Lilly: 32GS 15W 13L 181IP 28HR 81BB 160K 4.31ERA 1.43WHIP .254AVG

Padilla: 33GS 15W 10L 200IP 21HR 70BB 156K 4.50ERA 1.38WHIP .266AVG

 

I've wanted Lilly over Padilla but their numbers are really similar. Personally, I don't think either of them deserve a 10mil per contract.

[kroth1342]

Lilly: 32GS 15W 13L 181IP 28HR 81BB 160K 4.31ERA 1.43WHIP .254AVG

Padilla: 33GS 15W 10L 200IP 21HR 70BB 156K 4.50ERA 1.38WHIP .266AVG

 

I've wanted Lilly over Padilla but their numbers are really similar. Personally, I don't think either of them deserve a 10mil per contract.

 

Unfortunately, this year's FA market is going to redefine "value" and salaries players "deserve." I personally believe it will seem most similar to the 2000(?) offseason, that of the Arod, Manny, Hampton, and Neagle contracts in that teams have lots of cash to make horrible decisions. That being said, wise decisions will be rewarded, such as choosing which pitcher to give $9-10m per year to.

[questionmarkgrace]

lilly has had too many injuries for my liking.

[ChiCubsFan]

They're middle of the pack starters, probably a #3 on an avg. staff and a 4-5 on an above avg. staff. I think Lilly will be on the + side of 7 mil and Padilla will be on the - side of 7 mil.

 

Right now, the Cubs need a top of the rotation starter and a middle one.

Agreed. Matsuzaka and Lilly are my top choices in each category.

 

What in this thread has proved to you that Lilly is the top choice of the second tier starters, the high amount of fly balls and homeruns allowed, or the high walk rate?

 

Personally, this thread helped cement my opinion that neither one of them is likely to live up to their contract, and both should probably be avoided like the plague.

 

I couldn't agree more. Why burn 6-7mil on a pitcher who will do marginally better than someone like Marshall, Marmol, or Guzman. I don't want to rely on the kids and Miller and Prior, but I don't see a better choice. Hendry needs to do anything possible to sign one of the big 3 and hope that Hill continues the success he had last year and that Prior, Miller, Marmol, Marshall, and Guzman can hold down the 4th and 5th spots. I don't really see a better alternative.

 

Edit: I don't know if this has been discussed, but if Wood makes a successful transition to the bullpen, is it conceivable that Dempster could make a return to the roation if needed? I'd prefer to trade him for some more salary relief, but I don't think it'll happen. With Wuertz, Eyre, Howry, Ohman, and Wood all in the pen, Dempster isn't really needed. Would Dempster be much worse than Lilly or Padilla? Maybe he would, I dont know. I just really don't want to pay anything over 6 million for Padilla or Lilly.

 

Your really going to be steamed then when they burn 10 mil per on Padilla. I think Hendry will go out and over pay for some back end type of starting pitcher so he doesnt look like he didnt try to improve the rotation by adding someone. I think he will have a hard time convincing Schimdt or Zito to come to Chicago and he has to do something so he'll sign some mediocre talent.

 

Yes, I would be. If he can't convince Zito or Schmidt to come, then trade for a starter. I'd rather give up a couple prospects for an actual solid starter then give a 4 year deal worth close to 10 mil to Vicente freaking Padilla. Honestly, if you can't get Zito or Schmidt, there really isn't any good option. I don't mind dishing out money to get a solid #1 or #2 starter.

 

Does the 07 FA pitching look any better?

[mg420]

if the cubs can sign iwaga would they really need lilly or padilla? with z, hill, iwaga & miller, they would only need one more from prior, marshall, mateo, or guzman. it has been said many time before but once again prior is the key to 2007 imo. having 2 guys like z & prior healthy is like having 2 #1 starters on your staff and from what hill showed last year he might not be too far behind.

[ChiCubsFan]

if the cubs can sign iwaga would they really need lilly or padilla? with z, hill, iwaga & miller, they would only need one more from prior, marshall, mateo, or guzman. it has been said many time before but once again prior is the key to 2007 imo. having 2 guys like z & prior healthy is like having 2 #1 starters on your staff and from what hill showed last year he might not be too far behind.

 

Well you don't know what to expect from Igawa and Hill's season last year could have been a fluke. I'd also be worried about depending fully on Miller. Then again, as I've mentioned, I don't want to spend the money on Lilly or Padilla. Do whatever it takes to get one of the big 3 SP or trade for a starter. How much is Meche looking to make?

[KingCubsFan]

Uppin' this powerful thread. Whatever happened to that kroth1342?

[dan.gold]

Uppin' this powerful thread. Whatever happened to that kroth1342?

 

co-sign, I just found a BP-quality post from back in the day about Soriano at the top of the lineup

 

and although its a small sample size, tonights Lilly/Arroyo game is making him look awfully prescient

[Laura]

Uppin' this powerful thread. Whatever happened to that kroth1342?

 

co-sign, I just found a BP-quality post from back in the day about Soriano at the top of the lineup

 

and although its a small sample size, tonights Lilly/Arroyo game is making him look awfully prescient

 

Maybe you could ask kroth1342 whatever happened to him, since you share the same IP.

[dan.gold]

Uppin' this powerful thread. Whatever happened to that kroth1342?

 

co-sign, I just found a BP-quality post from back in the day about Soriano at the top of the lineup

 

and although its a small sample size, tonights Lilly/Arroyo game is making him look awfully prescient

 

Maybe you could ask kroth1342 whatever happened to him, since you share the same IP.

 

blasted technology (although I was waiting for someone to run an IP check)

 

I'm just enjoying this performance by Lilly

[RichHillIsABeast]

Uppin' this powerful thread. Whatever happened to that kroth1342?

 

co-sign, I just found a BP-quality post from back in the day about Soriano at the top of the lineup

 

and although its a small sample size, tonights Lilly/Arroyo game is making him look awfully prescient

 

Maybe you could ask kroth1342 whatever happened to him, since you share the same IP.

 

haha!

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Uppin' this powerful thread. Whatever happened to that kroth1342?

 

co-sign, I just found a BP-quality post from back in the day about Soriano at the top of the lineup

 

and although its a small sample size, tonights Lilly/Arroyo game is making him look awfully prescient

 

Maybe you could ask kroth1342 whatever happened to him, since you share the same IP.

 

Nice.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Uppin' this powerful thread. Whatever happened to that kroth1342?

 

co-sign, I just found a BP-quality post from back in the day about Soriano at the top of the lineup

 

and although its a small sample size, tonights Lilly/Arroyo game is making him look awfully prescient

 

Maybe you could ask kroth1342 whatever happened to him, since you share the same IP.

 

Too much time on your hands?

[Laura]

I only consider it too much time if I'm bored, which I'm not. But thanks for asking, Cheesehead.

[Guest]

Uppin' this powerful thread. Whatever happened to that kroth1342?

 

co-sign, I just found a BP-quality post from back in the day about Soriano at the top of the lineup

 

and although its a small sample size, tonights Lilly/Arroyo game is making him look awfully prescient

 

Maybe you could ask kroth1342 whatever happened to him, since you share the same IP.

 

Too much time on your hands?

Moderators see a little IP button next to the quote button on each post. Clicking it tells you the ip used for that post, every IP the user has posted from and anyone else that has posted from those ip's. Laura is just doing what a great moderator would do.

 

Comments like yours are not really appreciated. The mods don't get nearly enough kudos for the excellent work they do here.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The mods don't get nearly enough kudos for the excellent work they do here.

 

Agreed.