College Basketball 2006-2007

[sherwood921]

Bracketology has ND (6) playing Illinois (11) in the first round. That'd be interesting.

[soccer10k]

Have you watched OSU play? It's a guard oriented offense, and it's probably going to stay that way. I don't see how staying in college to watch his teammates jack threes is somehow going to enhance his offensive game.

 

And it's highly unlikely he'll only get 15-20 minutes/game in the NBA. He's not a project. He's an instant starter. And even if he did get so few minutes, the NBA would STILL be a better place to develop his game. He'll be practicing with and playing against the best in the world.

 

Besides, one more year of college means one more year where something terrible could happen to him, preventing him from ever playing. I can't think of one good reason for Oden to stay in college.

 

Playing time in college > practice time in the NBA. It's not highly unlikely he won't get much time in the NBA. He's not a very good offensive player right now and he would benefit from playing another year in college. I don't think he will stay, but it would be better for him.

 

Yes, something bad could happen to him, and people always throw this out there, but it's highly unlikely. This isn't football.

Oh yeah Kobe and LeBron always go on and on about how they didn't develop at all once they got to the NBA. Well actually LeBron might be a bad example. Lol. You go to college to prepare to make money or get a nice job. He has the job, why should he stay.

 

Do I really need to list all the players coming straight out of high school who were drafted high in the first round but flopped in the NBA? Because there are probably more high schoolers who flopped than those who are stars right now.

[CubColtPacer]

Have you watched OSU play? It's a guard oriented offense, and it's probably going to stay that way. I don't see how staying in college to watch his teammates jack threes is somehow going to enhance his offensive game.

 

And it's highly unlikely he'll only get 15-20 minutes/game in the NBA. He's not a project. He's an instant starter. And even if he did get so few minutes, the NBA would STILL be a better place to develop his game. He'll be practicing with and playing against the best in the world.

 

Besides, one more year of college means one more year where something terrible could happen to him, preventing him from ever playing. I can't think of one good reason for Oden to stay in college.

 

Playing time in college > practice time in the NBA. It's not highly unlikely he won't get much time in the NBA. He's not a very good offensive player right now and he would benefit from playing another year in college. I don't think he will stay, but it would be better for him.

 

Yes, something bad could happen to him, and people always throw this out there, but it's highly unlikely. This isn't football.

Oh yeah Kobe and LeBron always go on and on about how they didn't develop at all once they got to the NBA. Well actually LeBron might be a bad example. Lol. You go to college to prepare to make money or get a nice job. He has the job, why should he stay.

 

Do I really need to list all the players coming straight out of high school who were drafted high in the first round but flopped in the NBA? Because there are probably more high schoolers who flopped than those who are stars right now.

 

I doubt that there are more high school first rounders who flopped. Most high schoolers who flopped either got drafted in the second round or not at all-there are certainly more high schoolers who became stars in the first round than high schoolers who flopped.

[soccer10k]

Have you watched OSU play? It's a guard oriented offense, and it's probably going to stay that way. I don't see how staying in college to watch his teammates jack threes is somehow going to enhance his offensive game.

 

And it's highly unlikely he'll only get 15-20 minutes/game in the NBA. He's not a project. He's an instant starter. And even if he did get so few minutes, the NBA would STILL be a better place to develop his game. He'll be practicing with and playing against the best in the world.

 

Besides, one more year of college means one more year where something terrible could happen to him, preventing him from ever playing. I can't think of one good reason for Oden to stay in college.

 

Playing time in college > practice time in the NBA. It's not highly unlikely he won't get much time in the NBA. He's not a very good offensive player right now and he would benefit from playing another year in college. I don't think he will stay, but it would be better for him.

 

Yes, something bad could happen to him, and people always throw this out there, but it's highly unlikely. This isn't football.

 

You're really understating his ability on the offensive end. No, he's not Tim Duncan. But he's probably no worse than Samuel Dalembert, and he gets 30 minutes on a bad team.

 

And bad things don't just happen to football players. (Donnie Boyce?) Besides, wasn't even talking on the court. It could be anything (a la Jay Williams.)

 

Staying in college doesn't make much sense.

 

I didn't know being compared to Samuel Dalembert was a good thing for a guy who is supposed to be the next great center in the league.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

UW-Milwaukee takes on UIC in the Horizon League Tourney opener. Any UIC guys here that I can talk smack to if the mighty Panthers win?

[soccer10k]

New polls out and not surprisingly Ohio State is #1 in both. They are followed by UCLA, Kansas, Wisconsin, and Florida in the AP poll and UCLA, Kansas, Florida, and Wisconsin in the Coaches poll.

[CubColtPacer]

Following up on my previous post, let me check this-high schoolers drafted in the 1st round:

 

1995-Kevin Garnett

1996-Kobe Bryant, Jermaine O'Neal

1997-Tracy McGrady

1998-Al Harrington

1999-Jonathan Bender, Leon Smith

2000-Darius Miles, DeShawn Stevenson

2001-Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry, DeSagna Diop,

2002-Amare Stoudemire

2003-LeBron James, Travis Outlaw, Kendrick Perkins

2004-Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfair, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith, Dorell Wright,

2005-Martell Webster, Andrew Bynum, Gerald Green

 

I'd put Garnett, Kobe, Jermaine, McGrady, Amare, LeBron as stars

The only person I see that completely busted was Leon Smith-everybody else is contributing or starting to contribute somewhere (with the possible exception of Diop, but he has stayed in the league for 6 years)-and the only person who is not in the league besides Smith is Bender, who pocketed not only rookie money but a big contract extension before retiring with injuries (he was a special talent-Bender would have been one of the best players in the league if his knees had let him).

[snoodmonger]

Have you watched OSU play? It's a guard oriented offense, and it's probably going to stay that way. I don't see how staying in college to watch his teammates jack threes is somehow going to enhance his offensive game.

 

And it's highly unlikely he'll only get 15-20 minutes/game in the NBA. He's not a project. He's an instant starter. And even if he did get so few minutes, the NBA would STILL be a better place to develop his game. He'll be practicing with and playing against the best in the world.

 

Besides, one more year of college means one more year where something terrible could happen to him, preventing him from ever playing. I can't think of one good reason for Oden to stay in college.

 

Playing time in college > practice time in the NBA. It's not highly unlikely he won't get much time in the NBA. He's not a very good offensive player right now and he would benefit from playing another year in college. I don't think he will stay, but it would be better for him.

 

Yes, something bad could happen to him, and people always throw this out there, but it's highly unlikely. This isn't football.

 

You're really understating his ability on the offensive end. No, he's not Tim Duncan. But he's probably no worse than Samuel Dalembert, and he gets 30 minutes on a bad team.

 

And bad things don't just happen to football players. (Donnie Boyce?) Besides, wasn't even talking on the court. It could be anything (a la Jay Williams.)

 

Staying in college doesn't make much sense.

 

I didn't know being compared to Samuel Dalembert was a good thing for a guy who is supposed to be the next great center in the league.

 

yeah, because that's the point I was making. You're over here talking like Oden is a quadraplegic Greg Ostertag on offense, when the fact is, he's probably just as refined as half the pro centers out there. The difference is, he's 18, not 24. And he'll get better. And if he's smart, he'll do it playing against the best players in the world, not Northwestern's 6'7" center.

[soccer10k]

Following up on my previous post, let me check this-high schoolers drafted in the 1st round:

 

1995-Kevin Garnett

1996-Kobe Bryant, Jermaine O'Neal

1997-Tracy McGrady

1998-Al Harrington

1999-Jonathan Bender, Leon Smith

2000-Darius Miles, DeShawn Stevenson

2001-Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry, DeSagna Diop,

2002-Amare Stoudemire

2003-LeBron James, Travis Outlaw, Kendrick Perkins

2004-Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfair, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith, Dorell Wright,

2005-Martell Webster, Andrew Bynum, Gerald Green

 

I'd put Garnett, Kobe, Jermaine, McGrady, Amare, LeBron as stars

The only person I see that completely busted was Leon Smith-everybody else is contributing or starting to contribute somewhere (with the possible exception of Diop, but he has stayed in the league for 6 years)-and the only person who is not in the league besides Smith is Bender, who pocketed not only rookie money but a big contract extension before retiring with injuries (he was a special talent-Bender would have been one of the best players in the league if his knees had let him).

 

We obviously have different definitions of what a bust is. A guy drafted number 1 overall should be considered a bust if he's just contributing somewhere.

 

Kwame Brown has been a bust and so has Diop. Kendrick Perkins is sure looking like a flop as well with 4 ppg and 4.3 rpg in his fourth year.

 

Martell Webster is headed down that road though this is only his second year. Same goes for Gerald Green though he's shown actual improvement this year. But with him, it's hard to get behind a guy who can only get 20 minutes a game for the worst team in the league.

 

Robert Swift is hard to tell since he's injured this year and it would have been his third year. Telfair has regressed this year but like Swift, it's only his third year. But both these guys are headed down the bust road also.

 

I was wrong in the only first rounders statement and, like you said, a lot of the flopped high schoolers were second rounders. Also for your star list I would include Dwight Howard also. Dude is a stud.

[CubColtPacer]

Following up on my previous post, let me check this-high schoolers drafted in the 1st round:

 

1995-Kevin Garnett

1996-Kobe Bryant, Jermaine O'Neal

1997-Tracy McGrady

1998-Al Harrington

1999-Jonathan Bender, Leon Smith

2000-Darius Miles, DeShawn Stevenson

2001-Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry, DeSagna Diop,

2002-Amare Stoudemire

2003-LeBron James, Travis Outlaw, Kendrick Perkins

2004-Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfair, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith, Dorell Wright,

2005-Martell Webster, Andrew Bynum, Gerald Green

 

I'd put Garnett, Kobe, Jermaine, McGrady, Amare, LeBron as stars

The only person I see that completely busted was Leon Smith-everybody else is contributing or starting to contribute somewhere (with the possible exception of Diop, but he has stayed in the league for 6 years)-and the only person who is not in the league besides Smith is Bender, who pocketed not only rookie money but a big contract extension before retiring with injuries (he was a special talent-Bender would have been one of the best players in the league if his knees had let him).

 

We obviously have different definitions of what a bust is. A guy drafted number 1 overall should be considered a bust if he's just contributing somewhere.

 

Kwame Brown has been a bust and so has Diop. Kendrick Perkins is sure looking like a flop as well with 4 ppg and 4.3 rpg in his fourth year.

 

Martell Webster is headed down that road though this is only his second year. Same goes for Gerald Green though he's shown actual improvement this year. But with him, it's hard to get behind a guy who can only get 20 minutes a game for the worst team in the league.

 

Robert Swift is hard to tell since he's injured this year and it would have been his third year. Telfair has regressed this year but like Swift, it's only his third year. But both these guys are headed down the bust road also.

 

I was wrong in the only first rounders statement and, like you said, a lot of the flopped high schoolers were second rounders. Also for your star list I would include Dwight Howard also. Dude is a stud.

 

I would agree they are "busts" in that sense, but with high schoolers the only big regrets about not going to college are the ones who never get beyond their rookie contracts and have nothing to do the rest of their lives and have probably blown their rookie money. Most of the people on this list have at least stayed in the league a while, picking up more money and a livelihood-but yes, when comparing to draft status, there are several more busts on there.

You're right also in that I should have included Howard-can't believe I made that omission.

[soccer10k]

Have you watched OSU play? It's a guard oriented offense, and it's probably going to stay that way. I don't see how staying in college to watch his teammates jack threes is somehow going to enhance his offensive game.

 

And it's highly unlikely he'll only get 15-20 minutes/game in the NBA. He's not a project. He's an instant starter. And even if he did get so few minutes, the NBA would STILL be a better place to develop his game. He'll be practicing with and playing against the best in the world.

 

Besides, one more year of college means one more year where something terrible could happen to him, preventing him from ever playing. I can't think of one good reason for Oden to stay in college.

 

Playing time in college > practice time in the NBA. It's not highly unlikely he won't get much time in the NBA. He's not a very good offensive player right now and he would benefit from playing another year in college. I don't think he will stay, but it would be better for him.

 

Yes, something bad could happen to him, and people always throw this out there, but it's highly unlikely. This isn't football.

 

You're really understating his ability on the offensive end. No, he's not Tim Duncan. But he's probably no worse than Samuel Dalembert, and he gets 30 minutes on a bad team.

 

And bad things don't just happen to football players. (Donnie Boyce?) Besides, wasn't even talking on the court. It could be anything (a la Jay Williams.)

 

Staying in college doesn't make much sense.

 

I didn't know being compared to Samuel Dalembert was a good thing for a guy who is supposed to be the next great center in the league.

 

yeah, because that's the point I was making. You're over here talking like Oden is a quadraplegic Greg Ostertag on offense, when the fact is, he's probably just as refined as half the pro centers out there. The difference is, he's 18, not 24. And he'll get better. And if he's smart, he'll do it playing against the best players in the world, not Northwestern's 6'7" center.

 

If he doesn't dominate at the college level how is he going to at the pro level. I know he's 18 and I know he's going to get better - I'm not doubting that. Look at his three biggest games this year (since he didn't play against UNC):

 

Florida: 7 points, 6 rebounds

Wisconsin: 10 points, 7 rebounds and 11 points, 5 rebounds.

 

Oh, and since you included it, in one of the games against Northwestern he finished with 5 points and 6 rebounds in 29 minutes (though the other game he got 17 and 17). Obviously we aren't going to convince each other of anything so let's just agree to disagree and be done with this debate.

[illiniguy]

Have you watched OSU play? It's a guard oriented offense, and it's probably going to stay that way. I don't see how staying in college to watch his teammates jack threes is somehow going to enhance his offensive game.

 

And it's highly unlikely he'll only get 15-20 minutes/game in the NBA. He's not a project. He's an instant starter. And even if he did get so few minutes, the NBA would STILL be a better place to develop his game. He'll be practicing with and playing against the best in the world.

 

Besides, one more year of college means one more year where something terrible could happen to him, preventing him from ever playing. I can't think of one good reason for Oden to stay in college.

 

Playing time in college > practice time in the NBA. It's not highly unlikely he won't get much time in the NBA. He's not a very good offensive player right now and he would benefit from playing another year in college. I don't think he will stay, but it would be better for him.

 

Yes, something bad could happen to him, and people always throw this out there, but it's highly unlikely. This isn't football.

 

You're really understating his ability on the offensive end. No, he's not Tim Duncan. But he's probably no worse than Samuel Dalembert, and he gets 30 minutes on a bad team.

 

And bad things don't just happen to football players. (Donnie Boyce?) Besides, wasn't even talking on the court. It could be anything (a la Jay Williams.)

 

Staying in college doesn't make much sense.

 

I didn't know being compared to Samuel Dalembert was a good thing for a guy who is supposed to be the next great center in the league.

 

yeah, because that's the point I was making. You're over here talking like Oden is a quadraplegic Greg Ostertag on offense, when the fact is, he's probably just as refined as half the pro centers out there. The difference is, he's 18, not 24. And he'll get better. And if he's smart, he'll do it playing against the best players in the world, not Northwestern's 6'7" center.

 

If he doesn't dominate at the college level how is he going to at the pro level. I know he's 18 and I know he's going to get better - I'm not doubting that. Look at his three biggest games this year (since he didn't play against UNC):

 

Florida: 7 points, 6 rebounds

Wisconsin: 10 points, 7 rebounds and 11 points, 5 rebounds.

 

Oh, and since you included it, in one of the games against Northwestern he finished with 5 points and 6 rebounds in 29 minutes (though the other game he got 17 and 17). Obviously we aren't going to convince each other of anything so let's just agree to disagree and be done with this debate.

He never really gets the ball in the OSU run it up and chuck a three system. Plus he is a freshman. PLus those list are great. Why don't we do a four year guy first round list as well and see which guys who stayed in college all four years can compare with the guys who never went. You have Duncan, Josh Howard, Steve Nash, and a ton of guys who flopped.

[radarluv1]

i dont think its accurate to compare high school first rounders to oden. look at one and done first round draftees, i bet they have benn extremely successful, moreso than high school kids drafted on projected ceiling.

we could debate whether he would improve more as a 19 year old in the nba or in the big 10. there's no question he stands to lose alot by trying the latter.

[TruffleShuffle]

can't believe nobody mentioned the big Holy Cross win today to give them home court advantage for the Patriot League tourney.

 

That's a 1 bid league, so their real season starts now. Man, it's just so unfair that you can undo 14 good games with 1 bad game, but that's the nature of the beast. I wish there was some other way.

 

HC and Bucknell are by far the class of the league... each lost to the other once and then beat the rest of the teams in the league twice. The next best league record after the two 13-1 records is Lehigh at 7-7. HC and Bucknell should win their first and second round games and then meet in the final. If that happens, the winner will be deserving of the bid.

[Andy]

Bracketology has ND (6) playing Illinois (11) in the first round. That'd be interesting.

If Illinois is as bad as the UI fans on this board are saying, I'd love that matchup. However, I'd prefer ND to play its way to a higher seed - a couple BE tourney wins might get them up to 4.

[Flames24Rulz]

SIU's a 3 in Lunardi's bracket. We're a 2 on Warren Nolan. Hopefully, if we win the MVC Tournament this weekend, that would cement us as a 2.

 

Georgetown goes down tonight as well. SIU should be in the top 10 if we win the conference tournament.

[soccer10k]

SIU's a 3 in Lunardi's bracket. We're a 2 on Warren Nolan. Hopefully, if we win the MVC Tournament this weekend, that would cement us as a 2.

 

Georgetown goes down tonight as well. SIU should be in the top 10 if we win the conference tournament.

 

That pretty much eliminated any chance Georgetown had of getting a #1 seed.

[SouthSideRyan]

Syracuse did a lot for their bubble chances with that win.

[Andy]

The Irish jump back into the AP poll at 22 (although still behind Marquette who they just beat), and move to 17 in the coaches'. The last time ND was ranked this high was in December of 2002, where they went from unranked to No. 10 after a wonderful week in which they beat three top 10 teams (Marquette, then-defending champ Maryland, and Texas) in a seven-day span. Those were the days...

[CuseCubFan69]

Terrence Roberts should have been a hockey player as I've watched him almost all year playing on one leg and he fights and grits it out the whole time. If he was healthy we would have had a chance to win it all but with him hurt it isn't going to happen. It was a nice way to see the seniors go out in their last game at the Dome.

[Derwood]

Syracuse did a lot for their bubble chances with that win.

 

i think they're officially off the bubble.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Dammit, Luke Babbitt picked Ohio State over UCLA (and Nevada-Reno). I guess we're now looking at Drew Gordon for 08.

[TruffleShuffle]

Dammit, Luke Babbitt picked Ohio State over UCLA (and Nevada-Reno). I guess we're now looking at Drew Gordon for 08.

 

in his defense, they pay better

[illiniguy]

This is Thad Matta's world. The man gets whomever he wants. Stupid Ron Guenther.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

AWESOME:

 

Gary Parrish's Blog - CBS Sportsline[/url]"]- VITALE CAUGHT ON TAPE --

 

To be clear, I'm not one of those who is irritated by Dick Vitale. I find his enthusiasm refreshing and I've always known him to be a decent and pleasant human, on and off camera. So you can hate him if you like, but he's forever been nice to me, and that's all I really care about.

 

But this is too good to let pass!

 

Vitale was scheduled to appear on a radio show Monday morning in Knoxville in advance of Tuesday's game between Florida and Tennessee. When the hosts -- Mike Griffith and John Adams -- went to Vitale he was in a restaurant talking with some people, apparently unaware he was live on the air. The hosts kept trying to cut in, but Vitale wouldn't stop talking, and now Griffith and Adams must know how Dan Schulman feels.

 

Anyway, Vitale goes on to tell a story -- remember, he has no idea he's on the air even though he's actually on the air -- about how Florida's Billy Donovan told him "in confidence" NBA scouts were "making a mistake" if they took Joakim Noah over Al Horford, and if the Gators didn't already have locker room problems I'd imagine they might soon.

 

Honestly, it's wonderful entertainment. And to Griffith's and Adams' credit -- nice job, guys -- they played it perfectly, milking it for every quality moment. Vitale finally realized he was on the air and immediately went into Vitale-mode, enthusiastic and happy. Adams, in a stroke of genius, asked Vitale what he thought of Noah and Horford -- really nice job, John -- but the legendary color man just played it straight before getting off the air, which is when somebody from Florida told him how his "confidential" story was just made less-than-confidential over the radio in Knoxville.

 

Naturally, Vitale called back into the show.

 

And backpedaled.

 

But I couldn't possibly do this story justice. So just click this link and the audio clips from both phone calls are on the right side of the page. Enjoy. It's Awesome Baby with -- what else? -- a capital A.