A-Ram update

[Banedon]

Seriously though, its the freaking manager. If you aren't going to come back because you might have to hustle or be held accountable for your actions, then please leave. I don't care if you are ARam or Pierre (Not Z, you have to stay).

 

Isn't that making a big assumption though? That A-ram and Pierre are waiting for a new manager to see if he makes them hustle, or holds them accountable?

 

Isn't it reasonable that these guys know who their boss is going to be before they sign a commitment to play for a team for X number of years?

 

I know Pierre is one of Dusty's guys, but was A-ram really? Maybe A-ram is looking for a manager that can actually manage?

 

I'm making assumptions, sure, but I think we all are.

[Mizzou]

ugghh.

 

I really don't like how A-ram doesn't always hustle (not saying it's a Huge problem, it mostly just annoys me). But I really don't like how I'm all of a sudden hoping the cubs hire a manager who allows him to continue it - just so he stays . . .

 

That doesn't sound very clear, but anyone know what I mean?

 

It looks clear to me and makes a lot of sense.

 

I don't like lack of hustle, but if he produces, I can live with it. I'd hate for this offseason's theme to turn into "I decided I like guys who hustle."

 

Then you better hope the World Series doesn't turn on a hustle play.

 

They gotta get there first.

I think he was referring to Hendry's tendency to do copy the previous WS winner's approach.

[Lefty]

ugghh.

 

I really don't like how A-ram doesn't always hustle (not saying it's a Huge problem, it mostly just annoys me). But I really don't like how I'm all of a sudden hoping the cubs hire a manager who allows him to continue it - just so he stays . . .

 

That doesn't sound very clear, but anyone know what I mean?

 

It looks clear to me and makes a lot of sense.

 

I don't like lack of hustle, but if he produces, I can live with it. I'd hate for this offseason's theme to turn into "I decided I like guys who hustle."

 

Then you better hope the World Series doesn't turn on a hustle play.

 

They gotta get there first.

I think he was referring to Hendry's tendency to do copy the previous WS winner's approach.

 

Yes. Didn't think I had to spell that out. Considering that the Cubs haven't been to the Series in 61 years. Say that again; 61 years. Wow.

[Lefty]

ugghh.

 

I really don't like how A-ram doesn't always hustle (not saying it's a Huge problem, it mostly just annoys me). But I really don't like how I'm all of a sudden hoping the cubs hire a manager who allows him to continue it - just so he stays . . .

 

That doesn't sound very clear, but anyone know what I mean?

 

It looks clear to me and makes a lot of sense.

 

I don't like lack of hustle, but if he produces, I can live with it. I'd hate for this offseason's theme to turn into "I decided I like guys who hustle."

 

Then you better hope the World Series doesn't turn on a hustle play.

 

Um...gotta get to the World Series before that matters. I'd rather have a good player that occasionally may not hustle, than a mediocre player that gives it his all.

 

See post above.

[Banedon]

ugghh.

 

I really don't like how A-ram doesn't always hustle (not saying it's a Huge problem, it mostly just annoys me). But I really don't like how I'm all of a sudden hoping the cubs hire a manager who allows him to continue it - just so he stays . . .

 

That doesn't sound very clear, but anyone know what I mean?

 

It looks clear to me and makes a lot of sense.

 

I don't like lack of hustle, but if he produces, I can live with it. I'd hate for this offseason's theme to turn into "I decided I like guys who hustle."

 

Then you better hope the World Series doesn't turn on a hustle play.

 

They gotta get there first.

I think he was referring to Hendry's tendency to do copy the previous WS winner's approach.

 

Yes. Didn't think I had to spell that out. Considering that the Cubs haven't been to the Series in 61 years. Say that again; 61 years. Wow.

 

That makes a lot more sense then. I completely missed the reference.

[ZMovieman]

Seriously though, its the freaking manager. If you aren't going to come back because you might have to hustle or be held accountable for your actions, then please leave. I don't care if you are ARam or Pierre (Not Z, you have to stay).

 

Isn't that making a big assumption though? That A-ram and Pierre are waiting for a new manager to see if he makes them hustle, or holds them accountable?

 

Isn't it reasonable that these guys know who their boss is going to be before they sign a commitment to play for a team for X number of years?

 

I know Pierre is one of Dusty's guys, but was A-ram really? Maybe A-ram is looking for a manager that can actually manage?

 

I'm making assumptions, sure, but I think we all are.

 

I never took hustle to be one of Pierre's faults. While I don't think he's an ideal guy for us, I've heard nothing but raves about his work ethic. But maybe it was the media spinning things.

[DCNashville]

Um...gotta get to the World Series before that matters. I'd rather have a good player that occasionally may not hustle, than a mediocre player that gives it his all.

 

While that may be true at the professional level, as a coach it kills me to read a statement like that.

[goonys evil twin]

Um...gotta get to the World Series before that matters. I'd rather have a good player that occasionally may not hustle, than a mediocre player that gives it his all.

 

While that may be true at the professional level, as a coach it kills me to read a statement like that.

 

That's funny, because I know quite a few football coaches who always talk about wanting the talented kid as opposed to the hustling grinder type. It's obligatory to praise the hustling grinder, but I think a lot of coaches would love the opportunity to coach a phenomenal talent, even if he has some hustle issues. And as bad as some want to paint the picture, Aramis isn't that bad in this department. It's not like he never walks, or never dives for balls and never hustles. He flakes from time to time, but not to the extent of Manny. Baseball isn't a balls out sport, you have to be calm and collected.

[USSoccer]

Um...gotta get to the World Series before that matters. I'd rather have a good player that occasionally may not hustle, than a mediocre player that gives it his all.

 

While that may be true at the professional level, as a coach it kills me to read a statement like that.

 

That's funny, because I know quite a few football coaches who always talk about wanting the talented kid as opposed to the hustling grinder type. It's obligatory to praise the hustling grinder, but I think a lot of coaches would love the opportunity to coach a phenomenal talent, even if he has some hustle issues. And as bad as some want to paint the picture, Aramis isn't that bad in this department. It's not like he never walks, or never dives for balls and never hustles. He flakes from time to time, but not to the extent of Manny. Baseball isn't a balls out sport, you have to be calm and collected.

 

Excellently put, good sir.

[DCNashville]

Um...gotta get to the World Series before that matters. I'd rather have a good player that occasionally may not hustle, than a mediocre player that gives it his all.

 

While that may be true at the professional level, as a coach it kills me to read a statement like that.

 

That's funny, because I know quite a few football coaches who always talk about wanting the talented kid as opposed to the hustling grinder type. It's obligatory to praise the hustling grinder, but I think a lot of coaches would love the opportunity to coach a phenomenal talent, even if he has some hustle issues. And as bad as some want to paint the picture, Aramis isn't that bad in this department. It's not like he never walks, or never dives for balls and never hustles. He flakes from time to time, but not to the extent of Manny. Baseball isn't a balls out sport, you have to be calm and collected.

 

No doubt, every coach wants the D1 stud on their high school team. But you have to set the standard for high school kids, and the kids with that type of talent we've had couldn't stick on the team because of attitude. That hurt us in the short run, but the culture we've established is changing the tone of the program and most importantly, is leading to the development of some fine young men.

[DCNashville]

Oh, and I agree with you, Goony, concerning Aramis. He has had his hustle moments, but I think its been blown out of proportion. I just don't want to hire a manager that just doesn't care whether or not the players hustle. At least on the surface, they should care.

[goonys evil twin]

Um...gotta get to the World Series before that matters. I'd rather have a good player that occasionally may not hustle, than a mediocre player that gives it his all.

 

While that may be true at the professional level, as a coach it kills me to read a statement like that.

 

That's funny, because I know quite a few football coaches who always talk about wanting the talented kid as opposed to the hustling grinder type. It's obligatory to praise the hustling grinder, but I think a lot of coaches would love the opportunity to coach a phenomenal talent, even if he has some hustle issues. And as bad as some want to paint the picture, Aramis isn't that bad in this department. It's not like he never walks, or never dives for balls and never hustles. He flakes from time to time, but not to the extent of Manny. Baseball isn't a balls out sport, you have to be calm and collected.

 

No doubt, every coach wants the D1 stud on their high school team. But you have to set the standard for high school kids, and the kids with that type of talent we've had couldn't stick on the team because of attitude. That hurt us in the short run, but the culture we've established is changing the tone of the program and most importantly, is leading to the development of some fine young men.

 

I'm all about instilling discipline and hustle in high school players. It's very important. I'm not pro-lazy or anything, unless it's my own laziness.

[USSoccer]

Um...gotta get to the World Series before that matters. I'd rather have a good player that occasionally may not hustle, than a mediocre player that gives it his all.

 

While that may be true at the professional level, as a coach it kills me to read a statement like that.

 

That's funny, because I know quite a few football coaches who always talk about wanting the talented kid as opposed to the hustling grinder type. It's obligatory to praise the hustling grinder, but I think a lot of coaches would love the opportunity to coach a phenomenal talent, even if he has some hustle issues. And as bad as some want to paint the picture, Aramis isn't that bad in this department. It's not like he never walks, or never dives for balls and never hustles. He flakes from time to time, but not to the extent of Manny. Baseball isn't a balls out sport, you have to be calm and collected.

 

No doubt, every coach wants the D1 stud on their high school team. But you have to set the standard for high school kids, and the kids with that type of talent we've had couldn't stick on the team because of attitude. That hurt us in the short run, but the culture we've established is changing the tone of the program and most importantly, is leading to the development of some fine young men.

 

Which is really terrific at the level you're at, but as you said yourself, I don't think it holds true in the pro ranks. Your one goal is to win. If Boston offered me Manny Ramirez and the only way we could get him is if we put a clause in his contract that stated he could walk out ground balls and pop flys, I'd still probably take him.

 

As far as Aramis wanting to wait to see who the manager is, I'm sure that that's nothing to do with him worrying about getting yelled at for hustle. I'm sure it's more to do with seeing the direction of the team.

Edited October 5, 2006 by USSoccer

[NorthsideAvenger]

Just ask A-Ram who he wants, and hire him.

 

Seconded. Retaining Aramis is far more important than who our manager winds up being.

 

That kind of treatment is reserve to players who are either the Face of the franchise (Derrek Lee) or the Franchise (Carlos Zambrano) players, and quite frankly, as much as I like ARam, he hasn't earn the right to have a say in the Cubs managerial search. Had he help carried the Cubs when Lee went down, he would have a say, but since he didn't show up to pretty much the 2nd half, he doesn't get that right.

 

And if that means ARam leaves, then fine, I'm used to disappointment.

[USSoccer]

Just ask A-Ram who he wants, and hire him.

 

Seconded. Retaining Aramis is far more important than who our manager winds up being.

 

That kind of treatment is reserve to players who are either the Face of the franchise (Derrek Lee) or the Franchise (Carlos Zambrano) players, and quite frankly, as much as I like ARam, he hasn't earn the right to have a say in the Cubs managerial search. Had he help carried the Cubs when Lee went down, he would have a say, but since he didn't show up to pretty much the 2nd half, he doesn't get that right.

 

And if that means ARam leaves, then fine, I'm used to disappointment.

 

To be fair, I'm not sure how Lee deserves input but Aramis doesn't. Aramis has been here longer (albiet a couple months longer), is younger, and Aramis actually did carry the team and put up great numbers while the rest of his teammates (including Lee) were scuffling in September of 2004. Lee had a great 2005, but it was for a 4th place team.

 

Both should have about the same level of treatment and input.

[wade]

ugghh.

 

I really don't like how A-ram doesn't always hustle (not saying it's a Huge problem, it mostly just annoys me). But I really don't like how I'm all of a sudden hoping the cubs hire a manager who allows him to continue it - just so he stays . . .

 

That doesn't sound very clear, but anyone know what I mean?

 

It looks clear to me and makes a lot of sense.

 

I don't like lack of hustle, but if he produces, I can live with it. I'd hate for this offseason's theme to turn into "I decided I like guys who hustle."

 

Then you better hope the World Series doesn't turn on a hustle play.

 

They gotta get there first.

I think he was referring to Hendry's tendency to do copy the previous WS winner's approach.

 

Yes. Didn't think I had to spell that out. Considering that the Cubs haven't been to the Series in 61 years. Say that again; 61 years. Wow.

 

That makes a lot more sense then. I completely missed the reference.

 

Me too, and I feel twice as bad because it was pretty dang clever!

[Andy]

I think we'd all prefer having a guy who can put up Aramis numbers who hustles all the time over Aramis numbers and the occasional flake, but the number of 3rd basemen who put up Aramis numbers can be counted on one hand, and none of the others are coming here. Play with the hand you're dealt.

[soccer10k]

Just ask A-Ram who he wants, and hire him.

 

Seconded. Retaining Aramis is far more important than who our manager winds up being.

 

So hypothetically if ARam says "I want Lou Piniella as manager" you would be in favor of the Cubs hiring Lou Piniella solely to satisfy ARam?

[USSoccer]

Just ask A-Ram who he wants, and hire him.

 

Seconded. Retaining Aramis is far more important than who our manager winds up being.

 

So hypothetically if ARam says "I want Lou Piniella as manager" you would be in favor of the Cubs hiring Lou Piniella solely to satisfy ARam?

 

Players matter more than the manager, so I'd do it. I'd rather have ARam with Piniella than David Bell with Larry Dierker.

[Cubzfan64]

forgive me for my ignorance, but is there a time frame that Aramis has before a decision one way or another must be made regarding signing or becoming a free agent?

[USSoccer]

forgive me for my ignorance, but is there a time frame that Aramis has before a decision one way or another must be made regarding signing or becoming a free agent?

 

I don't know that the details regarding the opt out clause were ever made public.

[oldcubsfan]

Um...gotta get to the World Series before that matters. I'd rather have a good player that occasionally may not hustle, than a mediocre player that gives it his all.

 

While that may be true at the professional level, as a coach it kills me to read a statement like that.

 

That's funny, because I know quite a few football coaches who always talk about wanting the talented kid as opposed to the hustling grinder type. It's obligatory to praise the hustling grinder, but I think a lot of coaches would love the opportunity to coach a phenomenal talent, even if he has some hustle issues. And as bad as some want to paint the picture, Aramis isn't that bad in this department. It's not like he never walks, or never dives for balls and never hustles. He flakes from time to time, but not to the extent of Manny. Baseball isn't a balls out sport, you have to be calm and collected.

 

Goony,

I know we don't agree often, but on this topic I agree with you 100%. There are lots of players who out hustle Aram, but have NO production. Heck what good is it running out groundouts when you hit .240 with 10 hr's and 50 rbi? This is a silly topic, it's a media created pile of garbage.

[soccer10k]

Just ask A-Ram who he wants, and hire him.

 

Seconded. Retaining Aramis is far more important than who our manager winds up being.

 

So hypothetically if ARam says "I want Lou Piniella as manager" you would be in favor of the Cubs hiring Lou Piniella solely to satisfy ARam?

 

Players matter more than the manager, so I'd do it. I'd rather have ARam with Piniella than David Bell with Larry Dierker.

 

Again, another hypothetical. If towards the end of this year, Hendry approached ARam and said "what do I have to do to get you to stay a Cub?" and ARam said "resign Dusty" you would be in favor? If ARam demands Piniella, he can walk.

[USSoccer]

Just ask A-Ram who he wants, and hire him.

 

Seconded. Retaining Aramis is far more important than who our manager winds up being.

 

So hypothetically if ARam says "I want Lou Piniella as manager" you would be in favor of the Cubs hiring Lou Piniella solely to satisfy ARam?

 

Players matter more than the manager, so I'd do it. I'd rather have ARam with Piniella than David Bell with Larry Dierker.

 

Again, another hypothetical. If towards the end of this year, Hendry approached ARam and said "what do I have to do to get you to stay a Cub?" and ARam said "resign Dusty" you would be in favor? If ARam demands Piniella, he can walk.

 

If he told me to resign Dusty I'd counter with something else, but thankfully this hypothetical is just that.

 

I could also make the argument that Hendry is far more responsible for our current state than Baker is.

[Sammy Sofa]

Um...gotta get to the World Series before that matters. I'd rather have a good player that occasionally may not hustle, than a mediocre player that gives it his all.

 

While that may be true at the professional level, as a coach it kills me to read a statement like that.

 

That's funny, because I know quite a few football coaches who always talk about wanting the talented kid as opposed to the hustling grinder type. It's obligatory to praise the hustling grinder, but I think a lot of coaches would love the opportunity to coach a phenomenal talent, even if he has some hustle issues. And as bad as some want to paint the picture, Aramis isn't that bad in this department. It's not like he never walks, or never dives for balls and never hustles. He flakes from time to time, but not to the extent of Manny. Baseball isn't a balls out sport, you have to be calm and collected.

 

Goony,

I know we don't agree often, but on this topic I agree with you 100%. There are lots of players who out hustle Aram, but have NO production. Heck what good is it running out groundouts when you hit .240 with 10 hr's and 50 rbi? This is a silly topic, it's a media created pile of garbage.

 

You are wise, wise men.