[baseball7897]

I agree that it is hard to judge the relative sucess of an AB with the few lines of play-by-play that were posted earlier.

 

Dan Johnson hit a sac fly, he could have done a lot worse, and could have done better at the same time.

 

I'm more concerned with the individual quality of the AB. Maybe Johnson hit a lazy flyball. Or he could have hit one to the wall, or been robbed by a dving catch like UK mentioned.

 

If that is the case, that is just part of the game, not necessarilly a failure. I'd be hard pressed to "blame" a guy who crushed one to the wall.

 

And for the record, put me in the group that considers the follwing to be a successfull inning.

 

Juan Pierre doubles.

Ryan Theriot grounds out to 2nd. Pierre advances to 3rd.

Aramis Ramirez grounds out to shortstop. Pierre Scores.

 

Sure it's not a big inning, but sprinkle a couple of those in between a big inning and you will have a good ballclub.

 

I completely agree with you. That is a productive inning.

[UK1679666180]

True. I dont know why I included pitch count with first pitch strike.

 

As a pitcher, I go into every game with a strategy. This could be said for all pitchers.

 

1. First pitch strike- how many can I throw and what will be the total affect on the outcome of my game.

2. More change-ups- I will throw the first 5 hitters at least one change-up per AB. Obviously dont throw a weak hitter a changeup.

3. Second time through the order, start your best hitters off with a change-up or off-speed pitch.

4. After I have thrown a change-up, I throw my best fastball(talk about messing with a hitters timing)

5. Throw a 2 seam fastball to get movement

6. Work in and out, up and down

7. When im ahead in the count 0-2, I usually throw a letter high fastball from the center of the plate in, or a curveball in the dirt.( I never throw a 0-2 for a strike)

8. Work the ladder- first pitch fastball low and away. Second pitch fastball belt high in, third pitch fastball letter high.

 

Keep this in mind if your son is a pitcher. I gurantee you he will succeed. But, there are always set backs.

 

You're working from the rare exception. HS kids are lucky if they have a command pitch and an out pitch, even then they're likely all-conference. You're talking about pitchers with 4 pitches (FB, 2 seam, Ch, CB) and the ability to locate all of them. Most ML'ers can't do that.

 

It's a good principle, finding someone who can do those things is another story.

[baseball7897]

True. I dont know why I included pitch count with first pitch strike.

 

As a pitcher, I go into every game with a strategy. This could be said for all pitchers.

 

1. First pitch strike- how many can I throw and what will be the total affect on the outcome of my game.

2. More change-ups- I will throw the first 5 hitters at least one change-up per AB. Obviously dont throw a weak hitter a changeup.

3. Second time through the order, start your best hitters off with a change-up or off-speed pitch.

4. After I have thrown a change-up, I throw my best fastball(talk about messing with a hitters timing)

5. Throw a 2 seam fastball to get movement

6. Work in and out, up and down

7. When im ahead in the count 0-2, I usually throw a letter high fastball from the center of the plate in, or a curveball in the dirt.( I never throw a 0-2 for a strike)

8. Work the ladder- first pitch fastball low and away. Second pitch fastball belt high in, third pitch fastball letter high.

 

Keep this in mind if your son is a pitcher. I gurantee you he will succeed. But, there are always set backs.

 

You're working from the rare exception. HS kids are lucky if they have a command pitch and an out pitch, even then they're likely all-conference. You're talking about pitchers with 4 pitches (FB, 2 seam, Ch, CB) and the ability to locate all of them. Most ML'ers can't do that.

 

It's a good principle, finding someone who can do those things is another story.

 

I agree. Finding a pitcher that can do this day in and day out is really hard. Greg Maddux is the best example of this.

 

You can improve your control doing bullpens. Good control starts with good mechanics. One thing a individual can do is work on throwing more strikes from mid thigh to the knees. Guranteed success. At least I hope it would be.

 

If you're a parent of a little boy who is interested in pitching, you should strongly consider this program. I cant tell you how much this program has helped me out.

 

 

 

http://www.pitching.com/

Edited September 4, 2006 by baseball7897

[CaliforniaRaisin]

And for the record, put me in the group that considers the follwing to be a successfull inning.

 

Juan Pierre doubles.

Ryan Theriot grounds out to 2nd. Pierre advances to 3rd.

Aramis Ramirez grounds out to shortstop. Pierre Scores.

 

Sure it's not a big inning, but sprinkle a couple of those in between a big inning and you will have a good ballclub.

 

Would you chalk up that inning as successful if you were down 2 and it was in the 9th inning?

 

Play to your situation.

[Bruno7481]

And for the record, put me in the group that considers the follwing to be a successfull inning.

 

Juan Pierre doubles.

Ryan Theriot grounds out to 2nd. Pierre advances to 3rd.

Aramis Ramirez grounds out to shortstop. Pierre Scores.

 

Sure it's not a big inning, but sprinkle a couple of those in between a big inning and you will have a good ballclub.

 

Would you chalk up that inning as successful if you were down 2 and it was in the 9th inning?

 

Play to your situation.

 

Of course you play to the situation. That inning would be successful enough that it would at least bring the tying run to the plate.

 

The point of that scenario is just to prove that innings like that can be successful. From reading this thread I got the impression that a situation that I decribe would never be good, almost always negative. It just simply isn't the case.

 

You are 100% right though, it depends on the situation.

[UK1679666180]

If you're a parent of a little boy who is interested in pitching, you should strongly consider this program. I cant tell you how much this program has helped me out

 

While I'm sure his interest is in the right place, anyone who would downgrade the importance of local instructors is misguided.

 

If a parent had a choice between that program or one of the better instrux programs in the area, I'd hope they'd do the research and find they'd be better off with personalized instruction.

[baseball7897]

If you're a parent of a little boy who is interested in pitching, you should strongly consider this program. I cant tell you how much this program has helped me out

 

While I'm sure his interest is in the right place, anyone who would downgrade the importance of local instructors is misguided.

 

If a parent had a choice between that program or one of the better instrux programs in the area, I'd hope they'd do the research and find they'd be better off with personalized instruction.

 

The guy who does this program is a former major league pitcher. Dick Mills.

 

This program comes with 4 dvd's and pitching books. If you go to a pitching camp, you tend to forget most of things over time.

 

This is the best program out there. I gurantee you it is.

 

Barry Zito used this program. He even has a article in it that suggest you should consider buying it. He increased his velocity from 84-90 when he was in high school in just 2 weeks. Just by fixing a flaw in his mechanics.

I increased my velocity from 63 my freshman year in high school to 88 my senior year.

Edited September 4, 2006 by baseball7897

[UK1679666180]

It's just not personalized enough, it can't break down a pitcher's individual problem like a personalized instructor can. If a pitcher's leaning too far back or his center of gravity is too far behind his stride at foot strike, the pitcher watching it will likely overcompensate and start rushing. I've seen enough improvement and good instruction to be able to have confidence in local instructors.

[baseball7897]

It's just not personalized enough, it can't break down a pitcher's individual problem like a personalized instructor can. If a pitcher's leaning too far back or his center of gravity is too far behind his stride at foot strike, the pitcher watching it will likely overcompensate and start rushing. I've enough improvement and good instruction to be able to have confidence in local instructors.

 

It breaks down Tom glavine's and Kris Benson's daily routines.

 

Tom Glavine throwing routine:

 

Day1: Glavine Makes his scheduled start

 

Day2: Plays catch with pitching coach in the outfield for 10 minutes

 

Day3: Glavine takes the mound for 10-12 minutes going through his full assortment of pitches at about 70%.

 

Day4: Back on the mound again for 10-12 minutes going through his full assortment of pitches again at 70%.

 

Day5: Next scheduled start.

 

Instructors I feel are a waste of time. Unless your getting personal one on one work from a person who knows what they are talking about. This program will help you fix your problem. I think it has 15,000 success stories, including mine.

[UK1679666180]

But that's a ML pitcher, they aren't going to Mills for pitching advice. His site is geared towards HS players and overzealous parents w/little leaguers (worry more about your kid still having fun than drowning him in technical issues).

 

While reading a book or DVDs on mechanics, they're putting their trust into that player or parent as the one to judge his flaw, that's why I don't like it.

[baseball7897]

But that's a ML pitcher, they aren't going to Mills for pitching advice. His site is geared towards HS players and overzealous parents w/little leaguers (worry more about your kid still having fun than drowning him in technical issues).

 

While reading a book or DVDs on mechanics, they're putting their trust into that player or parent as the one to judge his flaw, that's why I don't like it.

 

College players use this as well. Some major league players as well also.

 

You can call him on Thursdays for pitching advice.

Edited September 4, 2006 by baseball7897

[CaliforniaRaisin]

But that's a ML pitcher, they aren't going to Mills for pitching advice. His site is geared towards HS players and overzealous parents w/little leaguers (worry more about your kid still having fun than drowning him in technical issues).

 

While reading a book or DVDs on mechanics, they're putting their trust into that player or parent as the one to judge his flaw, that's why I don't like it.

 

College players use this as well. Some major league players as well.

 

You can call him on Thursdays for pitching advice.

 

But he's not there to correct other flaws that come about. I'd rather trust someone who's viewing everything I do.

[UK1679666180]

But that's a ML pitcher, they aren't going to Mills for pitching advice. His site is geared towards HS players and overzealous parents w/little leaguers (worry more about your kid still having fun than drowning him in technical issues).

 

While reading a book or DVDs on mechanics, they're putting their trust into that player or parent as the one to judge his flaw, that's why I don't like it.

 

College players use this as well.

 

You can call him on Thursdays for pitching advice.

 

I'm sure it's helped out some pitchers and he offers sound advice, but I'd never recommend it over personalized instruction (assuming I know the instructor).

[baseball7897]

But that's a ML pitcher, they aren't going to Mills for pitching advice. His site is geared towards HS players and overzealous parents w/little leaguers (worry more about your kid still having fun than drowning him in technical issues).

 

While reading a book or DVDs on mechanics, they're putting their trust into that player or parent as the one to judge his flaw, that's why I don't like it.

 

College players use this as well. Some major league players as well.

 

You can call him on Thursdays for pitching advice.

 

But he's not there to correct other flaws that come about. I'd rather trust someone who's viewing everything I do.

 

You can send in a video tape of yourself, and he will send it back with advice on how to correct your problem.

 

How much one on one time do you get with pitching instructors? Believe me I know how it works. You get very little one on one time with a group of 200+ kids. In this case, you always have his videos/books to look at.

[baseball7897]

But that's a ML pitcher, they aren't going to Mills for pitching advice. His site is geared towards HS players and overzealous parents w/little leaguers (worry more about your kid still having fun than drowning him in technical issues).

 

While reading a book or DVDs on mechanics, they're putting their trust into that player or parent as the one to judge his flaw, that's why I don't like it.

 

College players use this as well.

 

You can call him on Thursdays for pitching advice.

 

I'm sure it's helped out some pitchers and he offers sound advice, but I'd never recommend it over personalized instruction (assuming I know the instructor).

 

His DVD's and book's are so detailed. I dont blame you for being skeptical. I was at first. I had this program for a couple of years now. I still go back and look at the video's, because they are so helpful.

[UK1679666180]

It depends on the program, the legit programs restrict the number of players in their academy at one time for that reason of personalized instruction. Some are in it for the money where the round up as many kids as poss. and some are truly concerned with getting the kids in there are working with them.

[baseball7897]

It depends on the program, the legit programs restrict the number of players in their academy at one time for that reason of personalized instruction. Some are in it for the money where the round up as many kids as poss. and some are truly concerned with getting the kids in there are working with them.

 

If you have a son I would recommend buying Mill's program. But, if you feel a pitching instructor is the way to go, then im not going to stop you.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

Dan Johnson hit a sac fly, he could have done a lot worse, and could have done better at the same time.

 

 

How could he have done a lot worse? Whether Johnson hits a sac fly or strikes out there, it's completely irrelevant to the outcome of the game. In order for the A's to tie things up, somebody else has to get on base and score. In order for that 2nd run to get on base and score, the guy ahead of him on 3rd is going to be driven in. The sac fly was completely useless there, and if Johnson was trying to hit a sac fly on that AB, (Or Scutaro was trying to move the runner up to 3rd), then he(they're)'s an idiot.

 

Of course you play to the situation. That inning would be successful enough that it would at least bring the tying run to the plate.

 

This was regarding the Pierre, Theriot, Ramirez hypothetical inning. The tying run was brought to the plate on Pierre's double. The "productive outs" in that inning were worthless. The point everyone else is making regarding the hypothetical is you're all assuming if the inning didn't go

 

Double

Productive out

Run scoring productive out

 

that it would go

 

Double

Unproductive out

unproductive out

unproductive out

 

instead of

 

Double

unproductive out

run scoring single

unrproductive out

walk

run scoring single

[sethuel1]

You get very little one on one time with a group of 200+ kids.

 

Because that's what personalized instruction involves. one instructor and 200+ kids.

[baseball7897]

You get very little one on one time with a group of 200+ kids.

 

Because that's what personalized instruction involves. one instructor and 200+ kids.

 

Exactly. Why spend $200 on something you wont remember in a couple of months? Instead, you will have Mr. Mill's videos at your house all the time.

Edited September 4, 2006 by baseball7897

[UK1679666180]

You get very little one on one time with a group of 200+ kids.

 

Because that's what personalized instruction involves. one instructor and 200+ kids.

 

Exactly. Why spend $200 on something you wont remmeber in a couple of months? Instead, you will have Mr. Mill's videos at your house all the time.

 

With you being in the Chicagoland area, I'd love to see a reference as to whom you might be speaking of.

 

I know baseball in this area and I know the academies for the ones that have the most demand, they are extremely well run and able to provide instrux that has worked. I've seen enough players in this area that have been able to make dramatic improvements from the Summer of going into their Senior year into the next Spring.

Edited September 4, 2006 by UK

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I think sethuel was being facetious.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think sethuel was being facetious.

 

I'm almost certain he was.

[MPrior]

I think sethuel was being facetious.

 

I'm almost certain he was.

 

Ditto.

[baseball7897]

You get very little one on one time with a group of 200+ kids.

 

Because that's what personalized instruction involves. one instructor and 200+ kids.

 

Exactly. Why spend $200 on something you wont remmeber in a couple of months? Instead, you will have Mr. Mill's videos at your house all the time.

 

With both of you being in the Chicagoland area, I'd love to see a reference as to whom you might be speaking of.

 

I know baseball in this area and I know the academies for the ones that have the most demand, they are extremely well run and able to provide instrux that has worked. I've seen enough players in this area that have been able to make dramatic improvements from the Summer of going into their Senior year into the next Spring.

 

I know Don Cooper has his whitesox pitching camp in December. Jim Hickey had one a couple of years ago in Orland Park. Not sure if he is still doing them.