Mauer vs. Prior

[Bruno7481]

back in 2002 many thought the Twins took the easy (and cheaper) way out by selecting Mauer over Prior.

 

It has turned out pretty good for them so far. If you could go back in time to 2002 (and have the #1 pick) would you go with Mauer or Prior?

[Butterscup1679666578]

Is this even a debate? An oft-injured pitcher who has only had one good season or a stud catcher? Give me Mauer.

[badger1679666666]

Well If I went back in time, I wouldn't know that Dusty would abuse Prior, and I wouldn't know that Prior would have the worst luck with injuries so I'd take Prior again, no question. Even with what's happened to this point, I'd still take him, because he's still so young and Michael Barrett is a great offensive catcher. I don't think we've seen the best of Mark Prior. Not by a long shot. Maybe we've seen the best in Cubs uni, but I don't think we've seen the best.

[Bruno7481]

Well If I went back in time, I wouldn't know that Dusty would abuse Prior, and I wouldn't know that Prior would have the worst luck with injuries so I'd take Prior again, no question. Even with what's happened to this point, I'd still take him, because he's still so young and Michael Barrett is a great offensive catcher. I don't think we've seen the best of Mark Prior. Not by a long shot. Maybe we've seen the best in Cubs uni, but I don't think we've seen the best.

 

I get what your saying. And I side with you on the occassions in 2003 when Baker could have taken Prior out of games sooner. Is that what your getting at? Or would you had rather him shut him down?

 

There would have been a meltdown if they would have shelved Prior in late 2003.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Well If I went back in time, I wouldn't know that Dusty would abuse Prior, and I wouldn't know that Prior would have the worst luck with injuries so I'd take Prior again, no question. Even with what's happened to this point, I'd still take him, because he's still so young and Michael Barrett is a great offensive catcher. I don't think we've seen the best of Mark Prior. Not by a long shot. Maybe we've seen the best in Cubs uni, but I don't think we've seen the best.

 

I get what your saying. And I side with you on the occassions in 2003 when Baker could have taken Prior out of games sooner. Is that what your getting at? Or would you had rather him shut him down?

 

There would have been a meltdown if they would have shelved Prior in late 2003.

 

They didn't have to not pitch him at all, just not throw him 120+ pitches at every opportunity.

[Bruno7481]

Well If I went back in time, I wouldn't know that Dusty would abuse Prior, and I wouldn't know that Prior would have the worst luck with injuries so I'd take Prior again, no question. Even with what's happened to this point, I'd still take him, because he's still so young and Michael Barrett is a great offensive catcher. I don't think we've seen the best of Mark Prior. Not by a long shot. Maybe we've seen the best in Cubs uni, but I don't think we've seen the best.

 

I get what your saying. And I side with you on the occassions in 2003 when Baker could have taken Prior out of games sooner. Is that what your getting at? Or would you had rather him shut him down?

 

There would have been a meltdown if they would have shelved Prior in late 2003.

 

They didn't have to not pitch him at all, just not throw him 120+ pitches at every opportunity.

 

I know, I'm with ya.

[Big Fergie J]

Its pretty easy to do the coulda/shoulda/woulda debate on any draft....let alone baseball which is the biggest crap shoot of any of the drafts, IMHO.

 

Is Mauer is a once-in-a-lifetime catcher ? Maybe. Only time will tell.

 

Was Prior considered a once-in-a-lifetime pitching prospect ? I believe so. The jury is still out on Prior's future as an MLB pitcher.

 

I can't second guess management on making their choice.

[USSoccer]

Let's also not pretend Mauer hasn't had his share of injuries.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Let's also not pretend Mauer hasn't had his share of injuries.

 

And plays a position that can lead to shortened careers, etc.

[Andy]

In any fair universe Mark Prior would've been the better pick for now, for soon and for later. But since we're the Cubs and since Dusty is our manager, Prior is just not going to be the same, at least not for a long time.

[cubsjunky95]

Prior without a doubt he was extremely dominant at USC and you can't pass up top of the rotation type ptiching. It looks horrible now because Mauer .365 and Prior has a 6.64 ERA but you cant pass up pitching. Part of me wants to believe that MP will return to '03 form but being the pessimistic Cub fan that I am he may never return to the form....at least while he's on the Cubs.

[jjgman21]

I'm not a draft guru, but having followed it casually the past few years, it really seems drafting pitchers first round is not a good idea. so many of them don't pan out or get hurt, it just seems to be too great a risk, especially considering the comparative success rate of positional prospects.

 

the think about the question of Mauer v. Prior is an easy one to ask but more difficult to answer. the same question could have been asked last year with Tex in Mauer's place. furthermore, taking the point I make above into account, Prior was supposed to be beyond that. he was Mr. Perfect Repeated Delivery With Excellent Command of Two Plus Plus Pitches. he was supposed to be beyond such worries as pitcher abuse and injury. now that perfect delivery turned out to blow out his achilles and he can't repeat his delivery twice in one inning, despite leading the Towel Drill League in all catagories.

 

I do not want to diminish the importance of not abusing pitchers, but I'm beginning to think that health of pitchers is due to physical freakishness more than mechanics or physical stature or pitch count or anything else. pitching just doesn't seem predictable enough to continue dumping early draft dollars on it, particularly because of the injury concerns. I think the Cubs should get off the draft pitching early and often philosophy and start drafting more positional players high in the draft in general. if you do draft pitchers high, go for college pitchers and take the health indicators and factors (abuse, mechanics, stature, etc.) into high consideration.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

the think about the question of Mauer v. Prior is an easy one to ask but more difficult to answer. the same question could have been asked last year with Tex in Mauer's place. furthermore, taking the point I make above into account, Prior was supposed to be beyond that. he was Mr. Perfect Repeated Delivery With Excellent Command of Two Plus Plus Pitches. he was supposed to be beyond such worries as pitcher abuse and injury. now that perfect delivery turned out to blow out his achilles and he can't repeat his delivery twice in one inning, despite leading the Towel Drill League in all catagories.

 

I do not want to diminish the importance of not abusing pitchers, but I'm beginning to think that health of pitchers is due to physical freakishness more than mechanics or physical stature or pitch count or anything else. pitching just doesn't seem predictable enough to continue dumping early draft dollars on it, particularly because of the injury concerns. I think the Cubs should get off the draft pitching early and often philosophy and start drafting more positional players high in the draft in general. if you do draft pitchers high, go for college pitchers and take the health indicators and factors (abuse, mechanics, stature, etc.) into high consideration.

 

Perfect delivery or not, a pitcher's mechanics change as he wears down and gets tired, which is where the major risk of injury comes from.

[CubsBullsBears]

Well look at it from the Twins point. By drafting Mauer, they were able to move AJ which landed them Nathan, Liriano, and Boonser. If they drafted Prior, it'd be Santana-Prior-AJ, but by drafting Mauer, they were able to get 3 very good players. So they basically got 4 players w/ that one pick.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Is this even a debate? An oft-injured pitcher who has only had one good season or a stud catcher? Give me Mauer.

 

Yes.

 

I would take Prior over Muaer ANY DAY. Pitching over hitting, ANY DAY.

 

And I would take Prior and Barrett over Mauer and a lesser talented pitcher. I mean, with the way Barrett has played the last 2 yrs, I have no regrets over the Cubs not being able to get Mauer. I like Mauer, but I still would choose PITCHING over hitting anyday, seeing as you can ALWAYS find hitting.

 

Look as much as Prior has been snakebitten over the last 3 yrs (both due to bad luck and bad manager) Prior is still one of the game's best pitchers, WHEN HEALTHY. And when you hear people talk about the Cubs, it also about the healthy of Mark Prior and Kerry Wood.

[chuckywang]

The thing is, if we got Mauer, we could have moved Barrett to another position.

 

One positive thing about the Cubs management is that they have a knack for getting players on the verge of stardom: DLee, Ramirez, and Barrett.

[NorthsideAvenger]

The thing is, if we got Mauer, we could have moved Barrett to another position.

 

One positive thing about the Cubs management is that they have a knack for getting players on the verge of stardom: DLee, Ramirez, and Barrett.

 

First: I doubt the Cubs would had still acquired Barrett. Untile Mauer was ready, the Cubs prolly would had gone the Bako/Blanco/etc,etc rout until Joe was ready.

 

Second: Barrett's "value" is at catcher. If heplays 1st, or 3rd, he becomes a middle of the road player offensively, atleast. Whereas at catcher, Barrett is considered one of the game's best offensive catcher.

[Jehrico]

back in 2002 many thought the Twins took the easy (and cheaper) way out by selecting Mauer over Prior.

 

It has turned out pretty good for them so far. If you could go back in time to 2002 (and have the #1 pick) would you go with Mauer or Prior?

If I could know then what I know now, I'd say neither. I'd go with Texeira, as Barrett has been hitting the cover off of the ball as well. Draft Tex for third, package Aramis for Arod, move Ronny to second, never make the move for Izturis.

[UncleDon]

"Let's also not pretend Mauer hasn't had his share of injuries."

 

"And plays a position that can lead to shortened careers, etc."

 

The position that leads to a shortened career is Cub pitcher.

[USSoccer]

"Let's also not pretend Mauer hasn't had his share of injuries."

 

"And plays a position that can lead to shortened careers, etc."

 

The position that leads to a shortened career is Cub pitcher.

 

Well played.

[SoonerCubFan]

back in 2002 many thought the Twins took the easy (and cheaper) way out by selecting Mauer over Prior.

 

It has turned out pretty good for them so far. If you could go back in time to 2002 (and have the #1 pick) would you go with Mauer or Prior?

 

It's funny how these issues get brought up the first time things look bad. Prior had us within 5 outs of the promised land just 2 years after the 2001 Draft, and looked all the world like a sure-fire HOFer in bloom. At 25, he may still get us and himself to those levels. I don't regret having taken him, it just hasn''t gone well the last 2.5 seasons.

 

If I could know then what I know now, I'd say neither. I'd go with Texeira, as Barrett has been hitting the cover off of the ball as well. Draft Tex for third, package Aramis for Arod, move Ronny to second, never make the move for Izturis.

 

Jehrico, you are the first to mention what the real choice was for the Cubs in 2001 - Prior vs. Teixeira. I recall a lot of fun banter on another board around draft day, knowing we'd get one or the other. Choosing any of the 3 has looked good for each them at different times the last 5 years. I hope all 3 reach their full potential with their respective teams over a long career.

[CubsBullsBears]

Well don't forget back when we did this, we had Hee Sop Choi to play 1B and Bobby Hill to play 2B

[Outshined_One]

Well don't forget back when we did this, we had Hee Sop Choi to play 1B and Bobby Hill to play 2B

 

Teixeira was drafted as a 3B. He moved because the Rangers had Blalock at 3B.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Choi-Hill-Montanez-Teixeira!

[Outshined_One]

Choi-Hill-Montanez-Teixeira!

 

Don't forget the immortal David Kelton.