Brenly Calls out ARam, Again!

[frostwyrm]

On the spectrum of problems that are keeping the Cubs from competing, Aramis not hustling probably isn't going to crack the top 10.

 

that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.

 

I agree. But Aramis is one of the few competent guys on offense and folks want to run him out of town for not hustling.

I don't think anyone wants him run out of town. We want him to stop these obvious displays of laziness. It's insulting to the fans and to his teammates. God forbid we ever get a team where all the stars act that way. Can you imagine if DLee, Barret, Jones, and Aram all decided they'd start loafing on the basepaths whenever the mood struck? What fan would even want to watch a team like that, let alone cheer for it?

[Shilzzz]

who would want to watch the collective of jones, barrett, lee and ramirez the way it stands, let alone cheer for it?

[mlarner]

Let me start off by saying I do not want to "run Aramis out of town." But...

Im really surprised there is so much defending Aramis on this issue. If we were fighting for a playoff spot then everybody (I guess) cares, but since the season is lost then its no big deal? How many times has he gotten thrown out at second and third (or been held to a single) because he'd rather stand at homeplate and admire his blast to the wall instead of actually running hard out of the box? And now, after completely dissapearing when the Cubs needed him after DLee goes down, he is FINALLY hitting after the season is essentially done and he gets a free pass on this stuff? Yes, he is tearing the cover off the ball and it is fun to watch, but I think some of the things he's pulled this season is just ridiculous for a veteran player of his talent and importance to our team.

 

But, of course, players would only do this for a team, a manager, and a franchise that allows them to do this. If I made 11 million and could get away with that crap, who's to say I wouldn't eithjer...especially when my manager comes up with these statements to the press explaining my actions:

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060706cubsgamer,1,4209477.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines

With the Cubs trailing by two, Ramirez banged a pitch from Chris Capuano off the right-field wall.

 

But he didn't run hard to first base as he watched the ball, then turned on the burners when he saw it bang off the wall.

 

Ramirez tried to stretch his double into a triple but was easily thrown out at third on a throw from right fielder Geoff Jenkins.

 

Manager Dusty Baker said Ramirez was trying to be too aggressive.

 

"Anytime you get a leadoff double … Aramis was hustling to third," Baker said.

 

"Everybody says he doesn't hustle, then he was hustling. He just hustled at the wrong time."

 

Was Ramirez hustling to first base?

 

"Not really," Baker said. "I'm sure he was watching the ball. In that situation you just can't get thrown out at third base with nobody out."

 

Ramirez conceded Baker was right.

 

"I didn't think I hit it that well, but when I saw the ball carry, I started running," he said.

 

Wow, accountability in action. I'm sure Dusty will sit down and talk with him AGAIN after the game and will proclaim that everything is cool. What do you have to do in order to get called out on this club anyway? The thing that scares me is that this will probably be mishandled by all parties involved and it will digress into another players vs broadcasters story...

[soccer10k]

yeah, aramis needs to hustle around the bases more on those upper deck shots he's hitting! cmon ramirez!

 

 

Fixed, Family friendly here ya know.

Not 1950's family friendly, though.

 

[soccer10k]

Please don't run ARam out of town.

[soapy]

Let's trade him for Izturis.

 

 

 

note: sarcasm

[BeerHere]

The problem doesn't lie with the player who lacks effort. The fault lies with the organization that enables that behavior.

 

Well put Tim. I completely agree.

 

[Derwood]

"When it's going bad, you hustle hard, but you are hustling right at people."

 

"You don't hustle your way on base. You hit your way on base."

 

"Hustling just clogs the bases for players who can hustle faster."

 

 

This kind of play always reminds me of the Braves game when Andruw Jones took a lazy route to a routine fly ball that fell in front of him. Bobby Cox took him out of the game right then and there. Baker doesn't have the brass to do that to anyone. God forbid he does something that would ruin his "best buddy" status with his players

[louisvillecub]

"When it's going bad, you hustle hard, but you are hustling right at people."

 

"You don't hustle your way on base. You hit your way on base."

 

"Hustling just clogs the bases for players who can hustle faster."

 

 

This kind of play always reminds me of the Braves game when Andruw Jones took a lazy route to a routine fly ball that fell in front of him. Bobby Cox took him out of the game right then and there. Baker doesn't have the brass to do that to anyone. God forbid he does something that would ruin his "best buddy" status with his players

 

Made worse by the fact that Andruw laughed after he missed the ball. I've always admired that gutsy move by Cox.

[Guest]

The problem doesn't lie with the player who lacks effort. The fault lies with the organization that enables that behavior.

 

i knew you'd admit it wasn't moises's fault

I abhored Moises for more than his lack of hustle as I've explained before. That was the icing on the cake.

 

For the record...I suggested at the end of last year that we trade Aramis if we could get good value for him. My feelings on the matter haven't changed.

[thedaymen]

I abhor players that don't hustle, and honestly, I wouldn't mind if ARAM was shipped out if there was quality in return.

 

Someone mentioned the play where Floyd beat out a double play ball and the Metropolitan Baseball Team of New York got another run off the play...well, if he had ARAM'ed it, he wouldn't have.

 

I guess some folks are ok with guys not doing their best to win the game. For me, I find it insulting that I pay money to see a guy who doesn't care enough to try his hardest. ARAM is an insult to the fans, no matter how many home runs he can hit when the team is dead and buried by July AFTER he helped throw the dirt on them in May and June.

[Chocolate Milk]

We're so good that we want to run one of our most productive players out of town for a perceived lack of hustle? Is this the same board where the "chemistry house cleaning" was met with near universal ridicule? Are we basing this on the same "Corey doesn't care and is uncoachable" information?

 

I'm sure his overall productivity out weighs the couple of baserunning gaffs he makes over the course of a year.

[1908]

Can you imagine if DLee, Barret, Jones, and Aram all decided they'd start loafing on the basepaths whenever the mood struck? What fan would even want to watch a team like that, let alone cheer for it?

DLee, Barret and Jones all hustle like crazy out there, and I barely want to watch this team. Raisin hit the nail on the head.

[thedaymen]

I'm sure his overall productivity out weighs the couple of baserunning gaffs he makes over the course of a year.

 

There's a difference between a "gaff" and not trying.

[1908]

yeah, aramis needs to hustle around the bases more on those upper deck shots he's hitting! cmon ramirez!

 

 

Fixed, Family friendly here ya know.

Not 1950's family friendly, though.

 

[Mizzou]

We're so good that we want to run one of our most productive players out of town for a perceived lack of hustle? Is this the same board where the "chemistry house cleaning" was met with near universal ridicule? Are we basing this on the same "Corey doesn't care and is uncoachable" information?

 

I'm sure his overall productivity out weighs the couple of baserunning gaffs he makes over the course of a year.

Couple baserunning gaffs? Aramis is lazy all season. I hate lazy players. I wish he'd get his act together cause I want him to stick around, but not if he's going to half-ass it and make cocky comments after one of his rare good games.

[frostwyrm]

yeah, aramis needs to hustle around the bases more on those upper deck shots he's hitting! cmon ramirez!

 

 

Fixed, Family friendly here ya know.

Not 1950's family friendly, though.

 

Hi Mrs. Cleaver! Can the Beaver come out to play?

[Chocolate Milk]

We're so good that we want to run one of our most productive players out of town for a perceived lack of hustle? Is this the same board where the "chemistry house cleaning" was met with near universal ridicule? Are we basing this on the same "Corey doesn't care and is uncoachable" information?

 

I'm sure his overall productivity out weighs the couple of baserunning gaffs he makes over the course of a year.

Couple baserunning gaffs? Aramis is lazy all season. I hate lazy players. I wish he'd get his act together cause I want him to stick around, but not if he's going to half-ass it and make cocky comments after one of his rare good games.

 

After his rare good games? Have you even watched the Cubs the last 3 seasons?

 

Aramis is the new whipping boy, it seems.

[1908]

yeah, aramis needs to hustle around the bases more on those upper deck shots he's hitting! cmon ramirez!

 

 

Fixed, Family friendly here ya know.

Not 1950's family friendly, though.

 

Hi Mrs. Cleaver! Can the Beaver come out to play?

Hustle Rammy! Hustle!

[TheDude]

If someone could quantify Aramis's lack of hustle in number of runs not scored, the way they attempt to do with caught stolen bases, then maybe there could be some actual objective analysis.

 

People want to dog Pierre for his arm in center, which costs a few runs per season, but give Aramis a free pass for his short-coming that likewise costs the team a few runs per season...I don't get it.

 

What people are really saying is, if you're productivity is above arbitrary personal value XYZ, then we'll forgive your individual flaws. But if you're productivity isn't above that, then we'll rag on you mercilessly for every flaw you have.

[Exile on Waveland]

Ramirez's lack of hustle has been apparent since he first broke into the big leagues -- of course, it was probably only apparent to me the first series I watched the Cubs play against the Pirates. Last year, people wanted to excuse it with "he has leg problems" or "he's kind of soft, next offseason he's going to work really hard and get into shape". Well, here it is a year later and he still dogs it at times and he still doesn't seem to be in tip-top shape. Just like you can't tell a .280 hitter from a .300 hitter by watching games, stats don't tell you everything, just most things. Ramirez's lack of hustle is indefensible. I do think it's an insult to the fans, his teammates, the game of baseball and the Cubs organization.

 

That being said, this is nowhere -- NOWHERE -- near the top of the Cubs' problems. It's not even close. Ramirez is currently the teams most productive hitter, and, overall, most would say the second best hitter behind a healthy Lee. Ramirez should not be run out of town or scapegoated. Of course, as goes for any player, he can be had for the right price. But the Cubs have third base covered for the first time since Santo, so I certainly wouldn't actively shop him. If blown away by an offer, then fine.

 

What should be done is something that won't. Either Dusty makes him run hard or the Cubs get someone who will. I would obviously prefer the latter (nearly anything sans Dusty sounds good to me). Players play the way they are allowed to play. The organization doesn't hold anyone accountable for anything, from top to bottom, and lack of hustle is symptomatic of that.

[Mizzou]

We're so good that we want to run one of our most productive players out of town for a perceived lack of hustle? Is this the same board where the "chemistry house cleaning" was met with near universal ridicule? Are we basing this on the same "Corey doesn't care and is uncoachable" information?

 

I'm sure his overall productivity out weighs the couple of baserunning gaffs he makes over the course of a year.

Couple baserunning gaffs? Aramis is lazy all season. I hate lazy players. I wish he'd get his act together cause I want him to stick around, but not if he's going to half-ass it and make cocky comments after one of his rare good games.

 

After his rare good games? Have you even watched the Cubs the last 3 seasons?

 

Aramis is the new whipping boy, it seems.

Have you watched the Cubs this season? He was horrible when we needed him to be at his best. Now that the season is over, he decides to swing the bat good again. Thanks Aramis!

[Chocolate Milk]

We're so good that we want to run one of our most productive players out of town for a perceived lack of hustle? Is this the same board where the "chemistry house cleaning" was met with near universal ridicule? Are we basing this on the same "Corey doesn't care and is uncoachable" information?

 

I'm sure his overall productivity out weighs the couple of baserunning gaffs he makes over the course of a year.

Couple baserunning gaffs? Aramis is lazy all season. I hate lazy players. I wish he'd get his act together cause I want him to stick around, but not if he's going to half-ass it and make cocky comments after one of his rare good games.

 

After his rare good games? Have you even watched the Cubs the last 3 seasons?

 

Aramis is the new whipping boy, it seems.

Have you watched the Cubs this season? He was horrible when we needed him to be at his best. Now that the season is over, he decides to swing the bat good again. Thanks Aramis!

 

This truely isn't even worth responding to but I will for some reason.

 

I have watched many games this season. Aramis has the second highest OPS of any Cub. What am I missing? Maybe you can explain. Are you suggesting that he tanked the early part of the season on purpose? Do you hold players accountable for slumps, or is this just special treatment for Aramis because he doesn't hustle to first? Why has he suddenly decided to "swing the bat?" Hey, Barrett got suspended for 10 games when we needed him most (since some games are more important than others, I guess), let's ship him out of town too. That way, we can get rid of our 2 best hitters in one fell swoop.

[goonys evil twin]

What people are really saying is, if you're productivity is above arbitrary personal value XYZ, then we'll forgive your individual flaws. But if you're productivity isn't above that, then we'll rag on you mercilessly for every flaw you have.

 

Kind of. Although it's not really arbitrary. Basically, if you are productive, you are helping the team, and I don't care too much about all the side issues. If you are not productive, you are hurting the team and it's a lot harder to look past other flaws.

 

Ramirez is far from ideal. The ideal player produces, hustles every play, fields flawlessly, is a tremendous teammates, always stays healthy, never complains, gets his teammates to work harder and play better, has a good relationship with the fans, etc. But there aren't too many "ideal players" out there. So, it's a lot smarter to concentrate on the overall productivity.

[Mizzou]

This truely isn't even worth responding to but I will for some reason.

 

I have watched many games this season. Aramis has the second highest OPS of any Cub. What am I missing? Maybe you can explain. Are you suggesting that he tanked the early part of the season on purpose? Do you hold players accountable for slumps, or is this just special treatment for Aramis because he doesn't hustle to first? Why has he suddenly decided to "swing the bat?" Hey, Barrett got suspended for 10 games when we needed him most (since some games are more important than others, I guess), let's ship him out of town too. That way, we can get rid of our 2 best hitters in one fell swoop.

I guess I don't understand... are you saying that you don't mind if a player doesn't hustle if he puts up good numbers? Cause I'm assuming that if Neifi Perez were as lazy as Aramis, he'd be constantly blasted on here. But because Aramis puts up good numbers, it's okay for him to not hustle?