Z's walks and pitch counts

[TB_11]

One thing I've noticed from looking at the stats is that while Z is having a typical Z-like year - ERA and WHIP almost identical to career averages - he's doing it with more walks and fewer hits. Consequently he's on pace to throw 4,000 pitches this year, 500 more than he's thrown in a season since 2003 and appraoching late-90s Randy Johnson territory. While he's the closest thing to indestructable we've seen in a while, he's still a 25 year old who's logged significant innings starting from the age of 21.

 

Any ideas on what the reasons for his high pitch count and walk ratio have been? I only get to follow the Cubs through boxscores and internet radio when I can sneak headphones on at work, so I haven't been able to watch Z's starts and get an idea for what's different this year. My initial hunch was that his sinkers is falling out of the zone more than normal, but I'm interested to hear what others who watch his starts think.

[soccer10k]

Any ideas on what the reasons for his high pitch count and walk ratio have been?

 

Carlos Zambrano wants them to walk. He walks people when he chooses to and there is no such thing as a batter working a walk when Z is on the mound.

[Tracer Bullet]

At this point in the season, I can't think of any reason to let Z throw 123 pitches in a game. That's just insane to me. We're so far out of the race and he's thrown so many pitches already. It's like Dusty thinks by throwing Z so much, he'll disprove any theory that he abused Prior & Wood.

 

While I hope Z is as indestructible as Dusty thinks he is, I'm not holding my breath.

[MembersOnlyJacket]

At this point in the season, I can't think of any reason to let Z throw 123 pitches in a game. That's just insane to me. We're so far out of the race and he's thrown so many pitches already. It's like Dusty thinks by throwing Z so much, he'll disprove any theory that he abused Prior & Wood.

 

While I hope Z is as indestructible as Dusty thinks he is, I'm not holding my breath.

 

I don't think he's looking to disprove the theory that he abused Prior and Wood. Instead, in Zambrano, he can show everyone how good his teams can be if Wood and Prior were on the mound every 5th day like Zambrano. It's like '"see, I told you so. Just give me my horses. If Wood and Prior were out there every day we'd be in the thick of it!"'

 

I'd be more worried about what might happen if Zambrano has a non-arm related injury. Would the club let him pitch through it because he's "tough and a horse" or would they use preventative medicine and sit him out. I can see Z pitching through something like that and risking his arm because he overcompensated to battle through an injury. The most important thing for a pitcher, besides the arm, is his lower half.

[goonys evil twin]

Any ideas on what the reasons for his high pitch count and walk ratio have been?

 

The reason for the high pitch count is Dusty is a moron.

 

The reason for the walk ratio is probably a little more complicated. The Cubs in general always have high walk ratios, so I can only assume they either don't work with pitchers to control that issue, or they do work with them but do a terrible job at it. Plus, Carlos has always had control issues. And he knows that his team is pathetic so he might be trying to be too fine, working to miss bats more than usual in an effort to shut out every team, because giving up 1 run is very dangerous with the Cubs behind you.

[CubColtPacer]

I think he's just striking more people out-and so he's trying to make the strikeout pitch more than trying to let them put the ball into play. He's easily projected for both a career high in strikeouts and walks. In previous seasons, teams would put one of his early strikes in play. Now that they are getting deeper in the count, two effects are happen. They either get up early in the count and are walking more, or are getting further down in the count and striking out. Does anyone else feel like Zambrano is not throwing the sinker as much this season?

[Soul]

Carlos walks 'em to clog the bases. Helps stop the other team from scoring.

[Tracer Bullet]

At this point in the season, I can't think of any reason to let Z throw 123 pitches in a game. That's just insane to me. We're so far out of the race and he's thrown so many pitches already. It's like Dusty thinks by throwing Z so much, he'll disprove any theory that he abused Prior & Wood.

 

While I hope Z is as indestructible as Dusty thinks he is, I'm not holding my breath.

 

I don't think he's looking to disprove the theory that he abused Prior and Wood. Instead, in Zambrano, he can show everyone how good his teams can be if Wood and Prior were on the mound every 5th day like Zambrano. It's like '"see, I told you so. Just give me my horses. If Wood and Prior were out there every day we'd be in the thick of it!"'

 

I'd be more worried about what might happen if Zambrano has a non-arm related injury. Would the club let him pitch through it because he's "tough and a horse" or would they use preventative medicine and sit him out. I can see Z pitching through something like that and risking his arm because he overcompensated to battle through an injury. The most important thing for a pitcher, besides the arm, is his lower half.

 

Well, I'm most worried that Z is going to keep throwing 120+ pitches in a lot of his starts and show up to ST with an arm injury next year (if he doesn't get one some time this year).

[CubsBullsBears]

Carlos walks 'em to clog the bases. Helps stop the other team from scoring.

You beat me to it.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Z only walks batters to tease the opponents. He's a sick, sick man.

[Roast]

Z only walks batters to tease the opponents. He's a sick, sick man.

 

I hate you.

 

 

Now i have to go clean up the orange juice that just got spit on my computer screen.

[hitamprun]

Some pitchers are more effective when they are not always around the plate. I think Z is a typical example of that. When you are a little bit wild with good stuff, it never gives the hitter a chance to dig in, and get a good read on what he is throwing.

[abuck1220]

“Also what was big today was we’re in a 20-games-in-a-row streak, and he saved my bullpen. That’s huge.”

 

yeah, thank heaven we were able to preserve the ever valuable arms of roberto novoa, scott williamson and will ohman. i don't know what i'd do if one of them were to be overworked.

[dalgreen]

Although Baker and Rothschild should receive most of the blame for the abuse, I also place some blame on Wood, Prior and Zambrano. It really infuriates me to see how quickly they can get a guy in a 1-2 count, but then it takes them another 6-8 pitches to get him out. That raises your pitch counts, so that they're consistently in the 100's by the sixth inning. It sure was refreshing to see a guy like Lieber throw complete games while only having to toss 90-95 pitches. Yeah, I understand the whole power pitcher vs finesse pitcher stuff, but if you're consistently around the plate, you'll throw less pitches.

[dvdd127]

With Big Z I dont worry about the walks as much as I worry about the pitch counts... and I dont really worry much about the pitch counts either.. and Zambrano is not a cry baby about a little bit of pain like Prior is.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

With Big Z I dont worry about the walks as much as I worry about the pitch counts... and I dont really worry much about the pitch counts either.. and Zambrano is not a cry baby about a little bit of pain like Prior is.

 

He's not, but you also don't want to see it become a situation where that concept of forging on even through pain/exhaustion becomes a detriment to him.

[dvdd127]

With Big Z I dont worry about the walks as much as I worry about the pitch counts... and I dont really worry much about the pitch counts either.. and Zambrano is not a cry baby about a little bit of pain like Prior is.

 

He's not, but you also don't want to see it become a situation where that concept of forging on even through pain/exhaustion becomes a detriment to him.

hu??

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

With Big Z I dont worry about the walks as much as I worry about the pitch counts... and I dont really worry much about the pitch counts either.. and Zambrano is not a cry baby about a little bit of pain like Prior is.

 

He's not, but you also don't want to see it become a situation where that concept of forging on even through pain/exhaustion becomes a detriment to him.

hu??

 

Zambrano is not a crybaby and will pitch in pain or arm exhaustion. That is something that a coaching staff needs to be very aware of. Otherwise if they leave it up to him he'd pitch complete games everyday and blow his arm in the process. Point being that being cautious can be a problem, but sometimes not be cautious can also become a problem.

[dvdd127]

Dude. There are guys who can throw complete games every fifth day and not throw out their arm.... and personally I think that Z is one of those guys.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Dude. There are guys who can throw complete games every fifth day and not throw out their arm.... and personally I think that Z is one of those guys.

 

Well, he already said once this season that he has/had an exhausted arm. The Dusty method of dismissing pitch counts is not really helping Zambrano and can be a gamble. I really don't think this is a gamble the Cubs should take with him. He threw too many pitches yesterday and for some reason I'm guessing he will throw too many pitches in his next outing.

 

But, what the heck Z can handle it.

 

 

 

:roll:

[dvdd127]

I dont really watch the pre or post game stuff... and I dont watch or read the news... so I did not realize that Z had said that. With that in mind, DUSTY REALLY NEEDS TO GET EJECTED FROM THE DUGOUT ON THE NORTH SIDE before he ruins Marshall and Marmol too.

[illiniguy]

Dude. There are guys who can throw complete games every fifth day and not throw out their arm.... and personally I think that Z is one of those guys.

Dude if you would have been here in 03 you would have thought oh its ok Mark has perfect mechanics, he won't hurt his arm from overuse.

[dvdd127]

Dude. There are guys who can throw complete games every fifth day and not throw out their arm.... and personally I think that Z is one of those guys.

Dude if you would have been here in 03 you would have thought oh its ok Mark has perfect mechanics, he won't hurt his arm from overuse.

Dude, I am a life long Cubs fan... who is 18 years old.. I was here in '03... and I blame that colapse on Alex Gonzolaz, who is retired by the way, and Busty Baker.

[illiniguy]

Dude. There are guys who can throw complete games every fifth day and not throw out their arm.... and personally I think that Z is one of those guys.

Dude if you would have been here in 03 you would have thought oh its ok Mark has perfect mechanics, he won't hurt his arm from overuse.

Dude, I am a life long Cubs fan... who is 18 years old.. I was here in '03... and I blame that colapse on Alex Gonzolaz, who is retired by the way, and Busty Baker.

I just want to limit Z's pitch count so in two years we aren't watching him pitch his way out of baseball like we are Prior right now.

[CubsBullsBears]

Dude. There are guys who can throw complete games every fifth day and not throw out their arm.... and personally I think that Z is one of those guys.

Dude if you would have been here in 03 you would have thought oh its ok Mark has perfect mechanics, he won't hurt his arm from overuse.

Dude, I am a life long Cubs fan... who is 18 years old.. I was here in '03... and I blame that colapse on Alex Gonzolaz, who is retired by the way, and Busty Baker.

Dusty ruined Wood and Prior by using them heavily in 2003. They were 1-2 in pitches thrown that year, and Prior was like 240 behind Wood, despite missing 3 starts. And why the hell did he let Prior throw 120 pitches with a 10-run lead in game 2 of the NLCS??