Re-Visiting Aramis and His Right to Void Contract

[HoopsCubs]

I saw this in today's Daily Herald from Barry Rozner, and it got me thinking:

 

"Dodger doings

 

Not only is Dodger Stadium the best ballpark for Maddux, it might be the right destination for several other Cubs.

 

The Dodgers are the perfect trading partner because they need Maddux, third baseman Aramis Ramirez and any of the veteran arms at the end of the bullpen.

 

They’re also loaded with young players, and if the Cubs want to improve quickly, that’s one place they’ll look."

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/rozner.asp?id=209327

 

So anyway, it's been a week or so since we talked about this on another thread. But we're probably good for another discussion as we're 11 days away from the non-waiver trading deadline. How do you view this situation? How should we view this situation?

 

Here are the facts as I understand them. Ramirez is due $11.0M in 2007 and $11.5M in 2008. There is a mutual option of $11.0M for 2009, which is guaranteed with 270 games played in 2007 and 2008. But, Aramis does have the right to void his contract after this season and become a free agent.

 

Will Aramis opt out to find a better deal? It seems both LA teams have shown interest and both will have money to offer a 3 or 4 year deal.

 

Does Aramis want to leave? I sense he likes it here save the press getting on him when he doesn't run the bases.

 

Is Aramis less likely to opt out if Hendry guarantees the $11.0M in 2009? Perhaps, but is that the right or wrong thing for Hendry to do when looking at the big picture?

 

Is it best for Hendry to trade him now with the specter of opting out hanging over his head? He should get a very decent package of players/prospects back plus a another $10M freed up in the offseason, but then who fills the void at 3B - Michael Barrett? The free agent list for 3B seems very sparse.

 

Has Hendry even discussed the opt-out possibility with Aramis' agents?

 

Where do you all stand on this topic?

(a) Trade him

(b) Keep him by extending him

© He'll stay regardless of 2009 option issue or extension.

(d) If he walks, so be it.

 

Hoops

[cubfan]

I think that a trade would make since if the Cubs could get a real good 3rd base prospect back in the trade which I'm pretty sure the Dodgers have in Andy LaRoche. I just don't know how willing the Dodgers are to trade him.

[Rob]

Trade him with a secret agreement in place for him to opt out after this season and resign with the cubs. :wink:

[JWCUB]

I think this is a very critical time for the Cubs organization. They need to figure out what direction they are going. Are they gonna go young like the Marlins and let the players develop? Are they gonna hang onto the veterens and try to add players in the offseason? I still the the Maddox, Jones, and Aramis to the Yanks for Arod and cash deal. On paper it looks like the Cubs are giving up a lot. But IMO that deal works out great for both clubs. Maddox would get a lot more run support, and a chance at another WS. They replace Arod with Aramis. A slight decline in production.....MAYBE. In that line-up Aramis might have a "hay day." And with jones, a solid outfielder. In return, the Cubs get Arod, and cash relief. Not to mention, more money for the offseason. Would Maddox waive the NTC to go to NY? Do you think this deal could work?

[HoopsCubs]

I think this is a very critical time for the Cubs organization. They need to figure out what direction they are going. Are they gonna go young like the Marlins and let the players develop? Are they gonna hang onto the veterens and try to add players in the offseason? I still the the Maddox, Jones, and Aramis to the Yanks for Arod and cash deal. On paper it looks like the Cubs are giving up a lot. But IMO that deal works out great for both clubs. Maddox would get a lot more run support, and a chance at another WS. They replace Arod with Aramis. A slight decline in production.....MAYBE. In that line-up Aramis might have a "hay day." And with jones, a solid outfielder. In return, the Cubs get Arod, and cash relief. Not to mention, more money for the offseason. Would Maddox waive the NTC to go to NY? Do you think this deal could work?

 

In the past, I think Maddux has stated his preference for NL teams. I don't see how the Cubs would get cash relief in this deal. Jones + Aramis is about $16M per season, which equals the $16M New York is on the hook for ARod (recall Texas agreed to pick up significant dollars in the ARod trade).

[JWCUB]

Hoops, if you were Hendry, would you pull the trigger on Aramis + Jones +Maddox for Arod? Take out the cash relief, just a straight up players and their salaries deal.

[jtownie]

I think this is a very critical time for the Cubs organization. They need to figure out what direction they are going. Are they gonna go young like the Marlins and let the players develop? Are they gonna hang onto the veterens and try to add players in the offseason? I still the the Maddox, Jones, and Aramis to the Yanks for Arod and cash deal. On paper it looks like the Cubs are giving up a lot. But IMO that deal works out great for both clubs. Maddox would get a lot more run support, and a chance at another WS. They replace Arod with Aramis. A slight decline in production.....MAYBE. In that line-up Aramis might have a "hay day." And with jones, a solid outfielder. In return, the Cubs get Arod, and cash relief. Not to mention, more money for the offseason. Would Maddox waive the NTC to go to NY? Do you think this deal could work?

 

In the past, I think Maddux has stated his preference for NL teams. I don't see how the Cubs would get cash relief in this deal. Jones + Aramis is about $16M per season, which equals the $16M New York is on the hook for ARod (recall Texas agreed to pick up significant dollars in the ARod trade).

 

I don't know that the salary wash per year is the issue for salary relief as much as it is the length of ARods contract. He has more years and money left on the contrac than Jones/ARam. Plus Jones/ARam take two positions of need for the Yanks where ARod equals one, so NY would have more money to spend on other positions where the Cubs would have less. The Cubs would need some salary relief so that they could afford to spend money on the OF.

[Fro]

If you're trading Aram, you might as well trade Zambrano, Prior, and Lee too, because you're blowing the team up.

 

Try to win it all in 07 and 08... we have the payroll for it if the money is spent wisely.

[goonys evil twin]

Where do you all stand on this topic?

(a) Trade him

(b) Keep him by extending him

© He'll stay regardless of 2009 option issue or extension.

(d) If he walks, so be it.

 

Hoops

 

I stand in the anything can happen zone. I could see him opting out, or staying on board. I would have to get a better feel for his plans before making the decision. I think the only way I deal him is if I end up with somebody like ARod, or if I end up with a major impact player elsewhere as well as a decent 3rd baseman.

 

The one thing I can not be on board with his (d). The Cubs cannot afford to let such a talent simply walk away with no compensation. Either trade him for significant quality, or make sure he stays.

[JWCUB]

If you're trading Aram, you might as well trade Zambrano, Prior, and Lee too, because you're blowing the team up.

 

Try to win it all in 07 and 08... we have the payroll for it if the money is spent wisely.

 

So, if you trade Aram and get Arod in return, you're blowing up the team? I don't uderstand.

[Roast]

If you're trading Aram, you might as well trade Zambrano, Prior, and Lee too, because you're blowing the team up.

 

Try to win it all in 07 and 08... we have the payroll for it if the money is spent wisely.

 

So, if you trade Aram and get Arod in return, you're blowing up the team? I don't uderstand.

 

Does Arod play for Dodgers?

[JWCUB]

If you're trading Aram, you might as well trade Zambrano, Prior, and Lee too, because you're blowing the team up.

 

Try to win it all in 07 and 08... we have the payroll for it if the money is spent wisely.

 

So, if you trade Aram and get Arod in return, you're blowing up the team? I don't uderstand.

 

Does Arod play for Dodgers?

 

See MY post above. :D

[JWCUB]

If you're trading Aram, you might as well trade Zambrano, Prior, and Lee too, because you're blowing the team up.

 

Try to win it all in 07 and 08... we have the payroll for it if the money is spent wisely.

 

So, if you trade Aram and get Arod in return, you're blowing up the team? I don't uderstand.

 

Does Arod play for Dodgers?

 

See MY post above. :D

 

To be serious, I would not trade Aram for prosects unless I knew for sure that he was going to opt out of his contract. It has taken the Cubs 30 + years to find a quality 3b, and I dont want to wait for another 30 years.

 

And no, Arod does not play for the Dogers. :lol:

[jjgman21]

what is the date on which Aram must decide whether to opt out?

[CubsBullsBears]

I think he might, simply b/c he's put up better #'s than Adrain Beltre and Beltre has a 5/64 deal

[CoolHandLuke]

I think he might, simply b/c he's put up better #'s than Adrain Beltre and Beltre has a 5/64 deal

 

Beltre was coming off a 1000+ ops season. No way Aramis gets a deal like that in free agency.

[soccer10k]

I think he might, simply b/c he's put up better #'s than Adrain Beltre and Beltre has a 5/64 deal

 

Beltre was coming off a 1000+ ops season. No way Aramis gets a deal like that in free agency.

 

Aramis has had a better career than Beltre but hasn't had a season like Beltre's in 2004.

[TheDude]

My suspicion is that Hendry won't go entirely young. So if he deals with the Dodgers, who seem to be an excellent trading partner at numerous positions, I see Hendry looking for names he knows plus a propsect rather than all prospects.

 

Maddux + Walker + Williamson for Izturis + not-quite-Kemp-calibur prospect

 

That looks like a deal Hendry would do, and that is the one I predict happening.

 

If he got bold enough to deal Ramirez, then I think he would want Aybar or a Kemp-calibur prospect + an A/B+ pitching propsect as well.

[MPrior]

My suspicion is that Hendry won't go entirely young. So if he deals with the Dodgers, who seem to be an excellent trading partner at numerous positions, I see Hendry looking for names he knows plus a propsect rather than all prospects.

 

Maddux + Walker + Williamson for Izturis + not-quite-Kemp-calibur prospect

 

That looks like a deal Hendry would do, and that is the one I predict happening.

 

If he got bold enough to deal Ramirez, then I think he would want Aybar or a Kemp-calibur prospect + an A/B+ pitching propsect as well.

 

I really hope not. This team has no need for Izturis, and he's not that good.

[abuck1220]

If you're trading Aram, you might as well trade Zambrano, Prior, and Lee too, because you're blowing the team up.

 

Try to win it all in 07 and 08... we have the payroll for it if the money is spent wisely.

 

So, if you trade Aram and get Arod in return, you're blowing up the team? I don't uderstand.

 

Does Arod play for Dodgers?

 

See MY post above. :D

 

To be serious, I would not trade Aram for prosects unless I knew for sure that he was going to opt out of his contract. It has taken the Cubs 30 + years to find a quality 3b, and I dont want to wait for another 30 years.

 

And no, Arod does not play for the Dogers. :lol:

 

that's kind of a silly reason to want to keep him.

[HoopsCubs]

Some new info:

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/angels/la-sp-angrep26jul26,1,5674340.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-angels&ctrack=1&cset=true

 

 

"Among the third basemen the Angels have inquired about are the Chicago Cubs' Aramis Ramirez (.266, 22 homers, 63 runs batted in), Arizona's Chad Tracy (.278, 14 homers, 56 RBIs) and Houston's Morgan Ensberg (.236, 19 homers, 44 RBIs)."

 

I repeat, Hendry better know with 99.99% certainty what Aramis' intentions are with respect to that void clause and/or have some strategy in place because Aramis is going to be very tempted to explore free agency with the Angels and Dodgers both having money to spend and holes at 3B.

[RynoRules]

Some new info:

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/angels/la-sp-angrep26jul26,1,5674340.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-angels&ctrack=1&cset=true

 

 

"Among the third basemen the Angels have inquired about are the Chicago Cubs' Aramis Ramirez (.266, 22 homers, 63 runs batted in), Arizona's Chad Tracy (.278, 14 homers, 56 RBIs) and Houston's Morgan Ensberg (.236, 19 homers, 44 RBIs)."

 

I repeat, Hendry better know with 99.99% certainty what Aramis' intentions are with respect to that void clause and/or have some strategy in place because Aramis is going to be very tempted to explore free agency with the Angels and Dodgers both having money to spend and holes at 3B.

 

If the Halos are really interested in him, Hendry shouldbe all over it. They have a ton of guys Iid like to see here.

[goonys evil twin]

If the Cubs do trade Ramirez, they need to do more than just trade for prospects. They have to acquire a big time bat that has already proven its worth, maybe Burrell. They already need to add at least one significant bat, a Ramirez trade would mean they have to get at least 2.

[USSoccer]

Trading Ramirez for prospects means you are completely writing off 2007. Also, Do you have any faith at all that this organization can properly develop any prospects you get in return?

 

The only kind of deal I would ever entertain for Aramis is as part of a package for ARod, or for a comparable bat in the OF AND a decent 3B, like Goony said. He's far too valuable for the Cubs to just get a couple prospects for.

 

That said, I hope they don't trade him, and I hope he stays.

[CubsInNC]

Would there be some sort of 3-way deal workable between us, Anaheim, and the Red Sox?

 

Red Sox get:

Greg Maddux

 

Angels get:

Aramis Ramirez

Prospects from Boston to balance

 

Cubs get:

 

Lowell + cash

Kendrick

Wood

 

Not that I imagine anything that creative from the team, especially this far out of it. But would something along those lines truly be workable?