A serious question..

[Mizzou]

I've been boycotting paying any money for this team since they picked up Jock Jones. I have not gone to any games at Wrigley, I have not bought any Cubs merchandise, and I've even gone so far as to not start any Game Threads this season!

You show them! I'm sure the Cubs will stop sucking and start getting good players cause you don't start Game Threads!

 

As for me, I still go cause I love baseball. And I love the Cubs. There's nothing like going to a game at Wrigley. Plus, like others have said, I bought tickets when they went on sale and I'm not going to just get rid of them cause the Cubs suck.

[bleedcubbieblue]

I hope Cub fans never stop going to games. It would only result in a lower payroll and a lower chance to win.

 

This is exactly the kind of thinking the Cubune wants, and I am sure that you also believe heavily in "fiscal responsibility". The true problem is management and how they run it, and if there is one thing this current regime is proving over and over again is.......

 

team success is not= to team payroll, most team this is true for, but not this one.

 

As can be seen by this team currently trying to play baseball every day. Until the Cubune stops trying to be so fiscally responsible, maybe they will finally figure out how to put a winning team on the field. Until then, I am pretty sure this current crop of management team members cannot figure this out under their current situation.

 

We either increase payroll substantially over the next few years to sign much better quality players(which I am pretty sure Jim Hendry cannot identify) or go the route of the Marlins and sell everyone and everything off and start from scratch. Unfortunaely, neither one of these senarios will happen, and most definetly the latter of the 2 will not happen because it would have an adverse effect on attendance, which the Cubune will not do.

 

BCB

[BigbadB]

I'm sorry this is where perception has become reality. This stuff happens at every park. I've been to about 9 Cubs games this year and haven't run into too many "non-fans" just going to the game to drink and talk on their new fangled cell phones. Maybe the people there aren't big enough fans to post on message boards like this or know all the prospects in the system, but that they're fans all the same.

 

This condescending crap, especially coming from Cubs fans, makes me sick.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that this doesn't happen at other parks. It does happen in every park. It's just happening more in Wrigley these days due to the poor product on the field.

 

I honestly can't believe that you can tell the difference in a hard core fan and a casual fan. A casual fan has their Wood/Prior jersey that they break out of the closet once or twice a year just like the hard core fan does.

 

I'm not here to label the fans, and I am 2300 miles away from Wrigley. I'm not one that can argue either way, but I didn't see anything wrong with what Impaler said here. And I can find it very reasonable to believe that many hard core fans have sold their tickets to casual fans due to the lack of anything worth watching on the field. We have many hard core fans on this message board, and many of them have stated that they aren't going to games. Who is buying up those seats? Most, if not all, are resold tickets since the season was basically a sell out before the season ever started.

[impaler_240]

I didn't read all 3,000,000 or whatever posts on the forum before making my statement. For that, I apologize, but I am a noob and that's that. I tried to answer the topic based on personal experience and perception. I have been to probably a dozen other venues besides Wrigley (actually go to more Twins and *gulp* Cardinals games anymore, unfortunately). It just seems like the percentage of "casual" fans at Wrigley is higher than in other venues at which I have attended games. Whether or not it's true is subject to discussion so carry on. :wink:

[Chocolate Milk]

I'm sorry this is where perception has become reality. This stuff happens at every park. I've been to about 9 Cubs games this year and haven't run into too many "non-fans" just going to the game to drink and talk on their new fangled cell phones. Maybe the people there aren't big enough fans to post on message boards like this or know all the prospects in the system, but that they're fans all the same.

 

This condescending crap, especially coming from Cubs fans, makes me sick.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that this doesn't happen at other parks. It does happen in every park. It's just happening more in Wrigley these days due to the poor product on the field.

 

I honestly can't believe that you can tell the difference in a hard core fan and a casual fan. A casual fan has their Wood/Prior jersey that they break out of the closet once or twice a year just like the hard core fan does.

 

I'm not here to label the fans, and I am 2300 miles away from Wrigley. I'm not one that can argue either way, but I didn't see anything wrong with what Impaler said here. And I can find it very reasonable to believe that many hard core fans have sold their tickets to casual fans due to the lack of anything worth watching on the field. We have many hard core fans on this message board, and many of them have stated that they aren't going to games. Who is buying up those seats? Most, if not all, are resold tickets since the season was basically a sell out before the season ever started.

 

This is some pretty shoddy reasoning here. Because there are people here aren't going to games, then those tickets must be going to non-fans who don't care about the Cubs? That's not necessarily the case at all. I know a lot of friends who were working/busy when the tickets went on sale and picked up tickets via ebay/craigslist/brokers. In fact, I did so myself last Friday. Am I a non-fan?

 

"Happening more in Wrigley these days"? You live 2300 miles away from the stadium. I live .3 miles from the stadium. A vast majority of the people who go to Cubs games are Cubs fans and feel very strongly about what happens to the team. Sure there are some who go to the games to get drunk and pick up chicks/dudes. To assert that these people are 'a lot' of the people at the games, is absurd.

 

I don't see why people feel the need to malign the fans of their own team (and themselves by extension). I have to deal with this enough from White Sox fans that I'm very discouraged to see it here.

 

I also don't get the need to distinguish between "hardcore fans" and "casual fans." Not everyone has the time to dedicate to watching all the games and obsess over every minor detail like we do. That doesn't make them any less of a fan.

[BigbadB]

"Happening more in Wrigley these days"? You live 2300 miles away from the stadium. I live .3 miles from the stadium. A vast majority of the people who go to Cubs games are Cubs fans and feel very strongly about what happens to the team. Sure there are some who go to the games to get drunk and pick up chicks/dudes. To assert that these people are 'a lot' of the people at the games, is absurd.

 

I don't see why people feel the need to malign the fans of their own team (and themselves by extension). I have to deal with this enough from White Sox fans that I'm very discouraged to see it here.

 

I only entered this argument because I really didn't appreciate your tone towards another NSBB poster. I personally don't care who sits in the seats. One poster has the view that more visiting team fans are getting tickets to games. Another one has the view that more cell phone talkin' fans are getting into games. Your opinion is that there is nothing different.

 

What is different is the product on the field this year sucks. Plain and simple. When a team sucks as bad as this team currently does, it's hard to run around wearing the teams colors with pride. I just spent a week during the all star break in St. Louis and there is no escaping the pride they are currently showing for their team. I wasn't actually "in" St. Louis, but rather 45 minutes west in O'Fallon. The people wearing Cardinal jerseys is ridiculous down there. But, I can see why it's happening. They have a good team and they are competitive every year.

 

Imagine if you will a run that the Cubs make where they run off 4 or 5 pennants in a row. How chaotic would Chicago be? How hard would it be to get tickets then? Whether one has a differing opinion of what kind of fan is stepping through the turnstyles at Wrigley is not worth arguing.

[Chocolate Milk]

I only entered this argument because I really didn't appreciate your tone towards another NSBB poster. I personally don't care who sits in the seats. One poster has the view that more visiting team fans are getting tickets to games. Another one has the view that more cell phone talkin' fans are getting into games. Your opinion is that there is nothing different.

 

What was wrong with my tone? I didn't attack the poster I attacked what he said: 'his angle.' The angle is played out and it is stupid, in my opinion. This is the prevailing national opinion regarding Cubs fans and is also the prevailing opinion in Chicago. I've seen little to back it up and I equate it to "All White Sox fans are white trash." which is also stupid. People just spit it out without thinking about it. "Cubs 'fans' don't go to games for the team they just go for the atmosphere.' It belittles us and I hate it.

 

You can see it how played out it is by the whole "cell phone" thing. Yeah, who has one of those things? They must be a yuppie!

 

In any event, I think it's tired, cliched, crap and frankly, I'm tired of hearing it.

 

Edit: Judging from the relpies in this thread, I'm not stopping this run away freight train so I'll just drop it.

Edited July 20, 2006 by Chocolate Milk

[bleedcubbieblue]

It just seems like the percentage of "casual" fans at Wrigley is higher than in other venues at which I have attended games. Whether or not it's true is subject to discussion so carry on. :wink:

 

Actually, I would agree with this statement. Listen, everyone who goes to Wrigley, almost always says the same thing, except possibly sock fans, but Wrigley is always spoken in glorified terms, at least to me, it seems so. It is a nice place to watch a game, and I have been to my share of venues. For me, I have been offered tickets a couple of times this last month, but I have turned them down and this tells me people are having problems getting rid of them who have them already or have season tickets. I will ultimately go at some point this year, I live in Chicago for criss sakes, so why shouldn't I. I can tell you that I will probably go later in the year, probably when the call ups come up, and for the most part, my reasons for being there will proabaly have as much to do with the setting and maybe more so, as it does for the team and also watching some baseball. This does not make me a casual fan as I watch or listen to most of the games, even when they are this bad. Give the Cubune credit for making it the place that it is, which means that regardless of the team they field, it most likely will be filled.

 

BCB

[ConstableRabbit]

It's summer, and the bleachers are hands-down one of the best places in the city to meet pretty drunk girls. Plus, I like yelling Jamesian slogans and the like. If people hear my loud and annoying criticisms, maybe they'll ask me what "VORP" is, maybe I'll be able to teach them a little bit about sabrmetrics. You know, kind of like Paul.

[impaler_240]

Regardless of the reasons for the seats being filled, I am always glad they are. Games are boring when no one is there. I was at a Devil Rays game late in the season last year. Attendance was under 10k, and it was just a stale feeling, even when something happened. Granted Tropicana Field is an awful venue, but still a full venue always makes for a more enjoyable experience. 8)

[CuseCubFan69]

If anyone thinks that having 20,000 people in Wrigley for each game won't get the Tribs/Hendry's attention I think you're wrong. I don't consider this a bandwagon move but one of neccesity. How many times has this team even been in contention for the playoffs in the MacPhail era? It isn't working and it's time for a change and if fans continue to go in the 40,000 and support the Cubs that's fine but get used to going and backing the lovable loser team that they are. Unlovable actually. I understand it's Wrigley and it is the most beautiful stadium out there IMO but what incentive does the Trib have if it's jammed pack full to make a change?

[CP_414]

I hope Cub fans never stop going to games. It would only result in a lower payroll and a lower chance to win.

 

This is exactly the kind of thinking the Cubune wants, and I am sure that you also believe heavily in "fiscal responsibility". The true problem is management and how they run it, and if there is one thing this current regime is proving over and over again is.......

 

team success is not= to team payroll, most team this is true for, but not this one.

 

As can be seen by this team currently trying to play baseball every day. Until the Cubune stops trying to be so fiscally responsible, maybe they will finally figure out how to put a winning team on the field. Until then, I am pretty sure this current crop of management team members cannot figure this out under their current situation.

 

We either increase payroll substantially over the next few years to sign much better quality players(which I am pretty sure Jim Hendry cannot identify) or go the route of the Marlins and sell everyone and everything off and start from scratch. Unfortunaely, neither one of these senarios will happen, and most definetly the latter of the 2 will not happen because it would have an adverse effect on attendance, which the Cubune will not do.

 

BCB

 

I never said team success is = to team payroll. I said if you have a lower payroll you have a LOWER chance to win. Of course you still need to spend the money wisely. However, which team has a better chance of winning the one than can make $10M errors or the one who can't? Why are the Yankees and Red Sox in the playoffs every year? The Yankees sure don't spend too wisely, but they can spend so much. The Mets are the best team in the NL because they could afford to go get Pedro, Glavine, Beltran, Delgado, and Wagner. They also did a good job of developing some of their own talent.

 

No, money doesn't equal wins, but it sure helps a lot.

[Jon]

If anyone thinks that having 20,000 people in Wrigley for each game won't get the Tribs/Hendry's attention I think you're wrong. I don't consider this a bandwagon move but one of neccesity. How many times has this team even been in contention for the playoffs in the MacPhail era? It isn't working and it's time for a change and if fans continue to go in the 40,000 and support the Cubs that's fine but get used to going and backing the lovable loser team that they are. Unlovable actually. I understand it's Wrigley and it is the most beautiful stadium out there IMO but what incentive does the Trib have if it's jammed pack full to make a change?

20,000 will never happen. What will/is starting to happen, though, is that ticket sales are dropping. And so is actual attendance, which hurts concession and merchandise sales (and is linked to television ratings, which suuuuuck). The Tribune has motivation to fill the seats, especially since they're spending the money, but Hendry isn't putting a product on the field that will do that. Only winning will actually fill the seats. The Trib spent over $10 million to increase capacity and they're barely filling any of those extra seats on a semi-regular basis.

 

As others have pointed out, opposing fans now have the opportunity to buy tickets because the team sucks so much. Same with tourists. Those groups are going to keep attendance relatively high regardless of the team, but Wrigley Field isn't going to be fully packed. Hendry may not care about that (like he doesn't care about acquiring good players), but the Trib does.

[jjgman21]

I think the lower tv and radio ratings have a helluva lot more impact on the Trib, and it's a pretty safe bet the ratings have grabbed their attention.

 

imo, Hendry/MacPhail's greatest accomplishment was showing the Trib they will get greater returns if the Cubs field a winning team, or at least give the perception that the team is capable of winning. unfortunately they seem more focused on the latter than the former.

[bleedcubbieblue]

I never said team success is = to team payroll. I said if you have a lower payroll you have a LOWER chance to win. Of course you still need to spend the money wisely. However, which team has a better chance of winning the one than can make $10M errors or the one who can't? Why are the Yankees and Red Sox in the playoffs every year? The Yankees sure don't spend too wisely, but they can spend so much. The Mets are the best team in the NL because they could afford to go get Pedro, Glavine, Beltran, Delgado, and Wagner. They also did a good job of developing some of their own talent.

 

No, money doesn't equal wins, but it sure helps a lot.

 

It would make sense that if you have a lower payroll that you have a lower chance of winning, unless.......of course you are the Cubs. I think we may be arguing the same point here, but the one thing I will say, I don't believe that lower attendance will mean a lower payroll. Although I would not put it past the Cubune to use this excuse for lowering payroll. Make no mistake about it, the Cubune could spend as much money as either the Yanks or BoSox, they just choose not to, and are just waiting for lightling in the bottle to hit. Unfortunately, this is not a way to build a winner!

 

BCB

[CP_414]

I never said team success is = to team payroll. I said if you have a lower payroll you have a LOWER chance to win. Of course you still need to spend the money wisely. However, which team has a better chance of winning the one than can make $10M errors or the one who can't? Why are the Yankees and Red Sox in the playoffs every year? The Yankees sure don't spend too wisely, but they can spend so much. The Mets are the best team in the NL because they could afford to go get Pedro, Glavine, Beltran, Delgado, and Wagner. They also did a good job of developing some of their own talent.

 

No, money doesn't equal wins, but it sure helps a lot.

 

It would make sense that if you have a lower payroll that you have a lower chance of winning, unless.......of course you are the Cubs. I think we may be arguing the same point here, but the one thing I will say, I don't believe that lower attendance will mean a lower payroll. Although I would not put it past the Cubune to use this excuse for lowering payroll. Make no mistake about it, the Cubune could spend as much money as either the Yanks or BoSox, they just choose not to, and are just waiting for lightling in the bottle to hit. Unfortunately, this is not a way to build a winner!

 

BCB

 

I think in recent years the Tribune has made a financial committment good enough for the Cubs to win. Would it be nice if they added another $50M to the payroll? Sure. The problem is the guys spending the money, not the amount being spent.

 

The Tribune have spent the money needed to put a competetive team on the field. Hendry, MacPhail, and Baker have NOT put a competetive team on the field. If not going to games gets those 3 guys fired and doesn't cause the Tribune to lower payroll, I'm all for it.

[bleedcubbieblue]

 

I think in recent years the Tribune has made a financial committment good enough for the Cubs to win. Would it be nice if they added another $50M to the payroll? Sure. The problem is the guys spending the money, not the amount being spent.

 

The Tribune have spent the money needed to put a competetive team on the field. Hendry, MacPhail, and Baker have NOT put a competetive team on the field. If not going to games gets those 3 guys fired and doesn't cause the Tribune to lower payroll, I'm all for it.

 

While on the surface it looks that way, ultimately every signing has to go thru them. In a lot of ways, they are worse than Frankenstreinbrenner. I say this because, they refused to let Hendry get another right fielder until he unloaded Sammy. While we can all agree this seems like a rational decision, once he unloaded him, who was left. Burnitz? Well, not to pick on him specifically, but geez, what a huge step down.

 

A few years ago, after 2003 I believe, A Gon had one more year on his contract for 5 million, Tejada was available, and while I would have fainted had they signed Tejada and ate some of A Gon's contract, that was definately the thing to do at that point. Upgrade your team. Instead, we got Nomar, which was a good pick up, but he was hurt most of that year, which was why we were able to pick him up that year. Same could be said about Vlad Guerrero, but we still had Sammy. Instead of trying to do what is best for the team first, and then shedding payroll later, they run the club with the theory of shedding payroll first, and then making moves later. Which ususally means the leftovers that everyone else doesn't want.

 

While I agree 100 million is more than enough to build a winner, but the way the Cubune runs their club restricts how Hendry runs the club and the players he can pick up. Compare that to how the Yanks and BoSox run their club!

 

BCB

[BigbadB]

What was wrong with my tone? I didn't attack the poster I attacked what he said: 'his angle.'

 

I'm dropping the subject myself since I'm no expert on who attends games at Wrigley Field.

 

I do want to point out that your "This is a stupid angle...." comment was disrespectful of another posters opinion, which is probably what I should have just stuck with rather than entering a debate that I'm not so educated on. I found your comment a bit offensive. Debate it all you wish, but please try to be a bit more respectful of an opposing view.

 

And this wouldn't be directed only at you. We all should attempt to be a little more respectful of opposing views.

[impaler_240]

What was wrong with my tone? I didn't attack the poster I attacked what he said: 'his angle.'

 

I'm dropping the subject myself since I'm no expert on who attends games at Wrigley Field.

 

I do want to point out that your "This is a stupid angle...." comment was disrespectful of another posters opinion, which is probably what I should have just stuck with rather than entering a debate that I'm not so educated on. I found your comment a bit offensive. Debate it all you wish, but please try to be a bit more respectful of an opposing view.

 

And this wouldn't be directed only at you. We all should attempt to be a little more respectful of opposing views.

 

I for one never get offended and took no offense to what was said. I honestly don't think internet discussion boards should be moderated at all, but that's irrelevant since this one is. In any regard, I appreciate the kind comments. :D

[UK1679666180]

Some people enjoy the game in its purest stage, which is not letting the team's record dictate whether or not you'll attend. I'm not one to tell to attend or not to attend to try and send a message to whomever will listen. If they enjoy going to a game regardless of the quality of the home team, attend as many games as you'd like.

 

For the record, I have not been to Wrigley this year nor will I probably go and that's not b/c of the Cubs' record in '06.

[soccer10k]

What was wrong with my tone? I didn't attack the poster I attacked what he said: 'his angle.'

 

I'm dropping the subject myself since I'm no expert on who attends games at Wrigley Field.

 

I do want to point out that your "This is a stupid angle...." comment was disrespectful of another posters opinion, which is probably what I should have just stuck with rather than entering a debate that I'm not so educated on. I found your comment a bit offensive. Debate it all you wish, but please try to be a bit more respectful of an opposing view.

 

And this wouldn't be directed only at you. We all should attempt to be a little more respectful of opposing views.

 

I for one never get offended and took no offense to what was said. I honestly don't think internet discussion boards should be moderated at all, but that's irrelevant since this one is. In any regard, I appreciate the kind comments. :D

 

I actually like that the board is moderated because it keeps the peace on the board and keeps the topic on what the board is about (in this case the Cubs) rather than personal attacks at other posters.

[Chocolate Milk]

I do want to point out that your "This is a stupid angle...." comment was disrespectful of another posters opinion, which is probably what I should have just stuck with rather than entering a debate that I'm not so educated on. I found your comment a bit offensive. Debate it all you wish, but please try to be a bit more respectful of an opposing view.

 

I feel your coming down hard on me here but I will drop if because truely, I don't care.

[Chocolate Milk]

I for one never get offended and took no offense to what was said. I honestly don't think internet discussion boards should be moderated at all, but that's irrelevant since this one is. In any regard, I appreciate the kind comments. :D

 

No offense was meant. I like you and you smell terrific.

[impaler_240]

I for one never get offended and took no offense to what was said. I honestly don't think internet discussion boards should be moderated at all, but that's irrelevant since this one is. In any regard, I appreciate the kind comments. :D

 

No offense was meant. I like you and you smell terrific.

 

Damn, I gotta get myself one of those new computers that have internet scent capabilities. :x

[Transmogrified Tiger]

because i want to go

 

word

 

I used to go every year but haven't been able to make it for several years. Next Saturday will be the first time since, I believe 2003.