Angel Guzman Leaves Iowa Game With Injury

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Gameday says it's a hand/wrist injury. The Oklahoma announcer has called it an "apparent arm injury." At the time of the injury, he was dominating - striking both the hitters he had faced in the 4th inning and going 3.2 shutout innings with 8 Ks.

 

:?

[treebird]

took him long enough

[abuck1220]

he sat and did nothing during the healthiest two weeks of his career.

[Outshined_One]

Aw, crap.

[Mephistopheles]

The way you make it sounds it seems like it could be an elbow injury and I wouldn't be at all shocked if he goes back under the knife.

[texascub]

I'm hoping it's just a strained muscle from him trying to pitch like he usually does even though he doesn't quite have the stamina yet after that long break.

[Laura]

urgh, hope the news will be relatively good.

[synergy]

Get rid of Guzman......he's the third stooge. Wood, Prior, and Guzman. The 3 injury-prone pitchers of the modern era. I was expecting Guzman to come up in 2003 or 2004. Basically Guzman = Hispanic Kerry Wood.

[CubsWin]

The way you make it sounds it seems like it could be an elbow injury and I wouldn't be at all shocked if he goes back under the knife.

Wow. You can get an elbow injury from his post?

[CubsWin]

Get rid of Guzman......he's the third stooge. Wood, Prior, and Guzman. The 3 injury-prone pitchers of the modern era. I was expecting Guzman to come up in 2003 or 2004. Basically Guzman = Hispanic Kerry Wood.

I completely understand your frustration, but we don't even know how serious this Guzman injury is yet. Calling for the Cubs to get rid of Guzman and Prior as well as Wood in response to something that could, at this point, be a blister? No, thank you.

 

And, you might be undervaluing Prior juuuuust a little...

[synergy]

what exactly I'm underrating Prior? I think Cub fans overrate Prior. GMs around the league said they wouldn't trade even a B prospect for Prior. He's had one good year in 2003 when he went 18-6. Last 2 years he has been mediocre. This year he has yet to win a game. so no Prior isn't that good.

[CubsWin]

what exactly I'm underrating Prior? I think Cub fans overrate Prior. GMs around the league said they wouldn't trade even a B prospect for Prior. He's had one good year in 2003 when he went 18-6. Last 2 years he has been mediocre. This year he has yet to win a game. so no Prior isn't that good.

I must of missed the numerous GMs that have openly stated that they wouldn't be willing to acquire Mark Prior for a B level prospect. Can you provide a link to a source?

[synergy]

Well I don't have a link with me.....you can try looking it up. It's late and I'm too lazy.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

what exactly I'm underrating Prior? I think Cub fans overrate Prior. GMs around the league said they wouldn't trade even a B prospect for Prior. He's had one good year in 2003 when he went 18-6. Last 2 years he has been mediocre. This year he has yet to win a game. so no Prior isn't that good.

I must of missed the numerous GMs that have openly stated that they wouldn't be willing to acquire Mark Prior for a B level prospect. Can you provide a link to a source?

 

There was one thread/article that linked an unnamed somebody that said he wouldn't even give up a B level prospect because it wasn't worth the risk. It was pretty much concluded that this unnamed person wasn't very smart, especially considering the contradiction of his statement(If Prior isn't worth anything, then why is it too big a risk to take him?).

[CaliforniaRaisin]

what exactly I'm underrating Prior? I think Cub fans overrate Prior. GMs around the league said they wouldn't trade even a B prospect for Prior. He's had one good year in 2003 when he went 18-6. Last 2 years he has been mediocre. This year he has yet to win a game. so no Prior isn't that good.

 

Not sure how you can say his 2005 was mediocre.

[CubsWin]

Well I don't have a link with me.....you can try looking it up. It's late and I'm too lazy.

Be happy to.

 

A Google search for "Mark Prior not worth trading for" yielded no quotes from any GMs. It did bring up a Yankees message board in which a Yank-me fan talks about how he wouldn't give up Robinson Cano for Prior. LINK

 

Did a couple of other searches. Still can't find any quotes from any GMs saying they wouldn't be willing to give up a B level prospect for Mark Prior. Lets try ProSportsDaily. They are a great source. They compile articles from newspapers all over the nation that even mention the Cubs or Cubs players. Here we go, from the Daily Southtown...

Oft-injured Mark Prior, who is nursing a left oblique injury, is not going anywhere unless there is an eye-popping offer on the table. Given Prior's health this year, who in their right mind would make that type of offer in the next few weeks?

No quotes from any GMs, but some solid sense. Given the fact that he has spent much of this season on the DL and is currently on the DL, it is highly unlikely anyone is going to make an eye-popping offer for Prior. I certainly agree with that.

 

Getting rid of him along with Guzman and Wood for nothing in return. Not my idea of a smart move. I think Prior is going to have a long and successful career. Hopefully, it will be in a Cubs uniform. Here is why I think that. His recent performances showed that he was getting his stuff back. He was throwing again in the mid-90s and was regaining his location of his fastball. His breaking pitches were also sharpening up. He was looking to be fully recovered from his shoulder injury this spring. Many of his previous injuries were either fluky and having nothing to do with his pitching motion or relatively minor. And he has returned from them in good form each time. He is still quite young and quite good. Trading him now when his value is at its lowest would be a horrible mistake. Simply getting rid of him now would be an even worse mistake.

 

Is it possible that Prior has fallen under the Cubs' curse and is also injury-prone like Kerry Wood? Yes. But its just as possible if not more so that he is not doomed to injury after injury until retirement. Let's try to keep that in mind. Okay?

[Neuby]

Well I don't have a link with me.....you can try looking it up. It's late and I'm too lazy.

Be happy to.

 

A Google search for "Mark Prior not worth trading for" yielded no quotes from any GMs. It did bring up a Yankees message board in which a Yank-me fan talks about how he wouldn't give up Robinson Cano for Prior. LINK

 

Did a couple of other searches. Still can't find any quotes from any GMs saying they wouldn't be willing to give up a B level prospect for Mark Prior. Lets try ProSportsDaily. They are a great source. They compile articles from newspapers all over the nation that even mention the Cubs or Cubs players. Here we go, from the Daily Southtown...

Oft-injured Mark Prior, who is nursing a left oblique injury, is not going anywhere unless there is an eye-popping offer on the table. Given Prior's health this year, who in their right mind would make that type of offer in the next few weeks?

No quotes from any GMs, but some solid sense. Given the fact that he has spent much of this season on the DL and is currently on the DL, it is highly unlikely anyone is going to make an eye-popping offer for Prior. I certainly agree with that.

 

Getting rid of him along with Guzman and Wood for nothing in return. Not my idea of a smart move. I think Prior is going to have a long and successful career. Hopefully, it will be in a Cubs uniform. Here is why I think that. His recent performances showed that he was getting his stuff back. He was throwing again in the mid-90s and was regaining his location of his fastball. His breaking pitches were also sharpening up. He was looking to be fully recovered from his shoulder injury this spring. Many of his previous injuries were either fluky and having nothing to do with his pitching motion or relatively minor. And he has returned from them in good form each time. He is still quite young and quite good. Trading him now when his value is at its lowest would be a horrible mistake. Simply getting rid of him now would be an even worse mistake.

 

Is it possible that Prior has fallen under the Cubs' curse and is also injury-prone like Kerry Wood? Yes. But its just as possible if not more so that he is not doomed to injury after injury until retirement. Let's try to keep that in mind. Okay?

 

I remember reading the article he is talking about I will try to hunt it down.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Well I don't have a link with me.....you can try looking it up. It's late and I'm too lazy.

Be happy to.

 

A Google search for "Mark Prior not worth trading for" yielded no quotes from any GMs. It did bring up a Yankees message board in which a Yank-me fan talks about how he wouldn't give up Robinson Cano for Prior. LINK

 

Did a couple of other searches. Still can't find any quotes from any GMs saying they wouldn't be willing to give up a B level prospect for Mark Prior. Lets try ProSportsDaily. They are a great source. They compile articles from newspapers all over the nation that even mention the Cubs or Cubs players. Here we go, from the Daily Southtown...

Oft-injured Mark Prior, who is nursing a left oblique injury, is not going anywhere unless there is an eye-popping offer on the table. Given Prior's health this year, who in their right mind would make that type of offer in the next few weeks?

No quotes from any GMs, but some solid sense. Given the fact that he has spent much of this season on the DL and is currently on the DL, it is highly unlikely anyone is going to make an eye-popping offer for Prior. I certainly agree with that.

The general managers are starting to kick the tires a bit on trade possibilities, one GM said this week. With that in mind, I called about a half-dozen talent evaluators and asked them to assess the value of Kerry Wood and Mark Prior, should the Cubs decide to put either on the market.

 

In other words, if Lastings Milledge or Delmon Young is an A-plus prospect, what would you give for Wood or Prior?

 

Among these conversations, there was absolute consensus on three points:

 

1. Neither player has much value right now.

2. Unless the Cubs start turning it around very soon, in the dramatic way that the Astros and Athletics did last year, they should trade Wood before the July 31 deadline.

3. Circumstances will dictate that the Cubs keep Prior.

 

"I'd probably give no more than a C-level prospect for either," said an NL GM. "You have to look at their history, and look at their track record, and you'd have to be very cautious. Maybe you'd give a B prospect for one of them, but the team trading for him would have to be in a right situation. It'd have to be somebody in the pennant race -- like Omar [Minaya, GM of the Mets], or the Yankees or the Red Sox. It's such a tremendous gamble that you'd have to have the financial wherewithal to take that kind of gamble."

 

Another NL executive said: "I don't know what I'd give them, but it would be a heck of a lot less than someone like Delmon Young. A guy like Wood, I'd give a B or B-plus type prospect, or maybe a decent major leaguer. With Wood, you're talking about a guy who might make 20 more starts this year and then you've got to make a big financial decision."

 

The Cubs hold a $13.5 million option on Wood for 2007 with a $3 million buyout, a huge chunk of change. "That's a big hit to take financially, for someone with his injury history," the NL exec said.

 

And Prior? "He could fetch a little bit more of an asking price because you can control him for a little while longer before he becomes a free agent," the same exec said. "But he's got to show he's healthy. Trading for Prior is kind of dangerous. First, you're hoping he can be what he once was, and if he is, he's going to be very expensive with the two arbitration years."

 

An AL talent evaluator said he thinks the best use of Wood would be as a power middle reliever (seventh and eighth inning). "I watched Wood the other night, and as a starter, I think he's a shell of what he once was," the evaluator said. "For Wood, because of his contract situation, I'd give up no more than a C-level prospect. He's declining, and he's got that big option.

 

"For Prior, I'd give a B or B-plus. His upside is still great for me, and if he works it out, you suddenly could have the anchor of your staff for the next two years. You'd be taking a leap of faith on Prior, but it might be worth it."

Getting rid of him along with Guzman and Wood for nothing in return. Not my idea of a smart move. I think Prior is going to have a long and successful career. Hopefully, it will be in a Cubs uniform. Here is why I think that. His recent performances showed that he was getting his stuff back. He was throwing again in the mid-90s and was regaining his location of his fastball. His breaking pitches were also sharpening up. He was looking to be fully recovered from his shoulder injury this spring. Many of his previous injuries were either fluky and having nothing to do with his pitching motion or relatively minor. And he has returned from them in good form each time. He is still quite young and quite good. Trading him now when his value is at its lowest would be a horrible mistake. Simply getting rid of him now would be an even worse mistake.

 

Is it possible that Prior has fallen under the Cubs' curse and is also injury-prone like Kerry Wood? Yes. But its just as possible if not more so that he is not doomed to injury after injury until retirement. Let's try to keep that in mind. Okay?

 

I remember reading the article he is talking about I will try to hunt it down.

 

I found it.

 

It's Insider content on Olney's blog. Here's the link.

 

[Neuby]

Beat me by four minutes on that post Vance. Google is a wonderful thing.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Beat me by four minutes on that post Vance. Google is a wonderful thing.

 

I knew it was on ESPN, so I used their site to search for articles by their collumnists. That's how I beat you. :)

[SouthSideRyan]

what exactly I'm underrating Prior? I think Cub fans overrate Prior. GMs around the league said they wouldn't trade even a B prospect for Prior. He's had one good year in 2003 when he went 18-6. Last 2 years he has been mediocre. This year he has yet to win a game. so no Prior isn't that good.

 

Not sure how you can say his 2005 was mediocre.

 

I'm trying to figure out how 2003 was just "good"

[Outshined_One]

Well I don't have a link with me.....you can try looking it up. It's late and I'm too lazy.

 

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8986/rcopoutqc6.jpg

[CaliforniaRaisin]

what exactly I'm underrating Prior? I think Cub fans overrate Prior. GMs around the league said they wouldn't trade even a B prospect for Prior. He's had one good year in 2003 when he went 18-6. Last 2 years he has been mediocre. This year he has yet to win a game. so no Prior isn't that good.

 

Not sure how you can say his 2005 was mediocre.

 

I'm trying to figure out how 2003 was just "good"

 

Heh, good point.

[Brian]

:( his numbers from the game are sick too... please be nothing.

[CubsWin]

Well I don't have a link with me.....you can try looking it up. It's late and I'm too lazy.

Be happy to.

 

A Google search for "Mark Prior not worth trading for" yielded no quotes from any GMs. It did bring up a Yankees message board in which a Yank-me fan talks about how he wouldn't give up Robinson Cano for Prior. LINK

 

Did a couple of other searches. Still can't find any quotes from any GMs saying they wouldn't be willing to give up a B level prospect for Mark Prior. Lets try ProSportsDaily. They are a great source. They compile articles from newspapers all over the nation that even mention the Cubs or Cubs players. Here we go, from the Daily Southtown...

Oft-injured Mark Prior, who is nursing a left oblique injury, is not going anywhere unless there is an eye-popping offer on the table. Given Prior's health this year, who in their right mind would make that type of offer in the next few weeks?

No quotes from any GMs, but some solid sense. Given the fact that he has spent much of this season on the DL and is currently on the DL, it is highly unlikely anyone is going to make an eye-popping offer for Prior. I certainly agree with that.

The general managers are starting to kick the tires a bit on trade possibilities, one GM said this week. With that in mind, I called about a half-dozen talent evaluators and asked them to assess the value of Kerry Wood and Mark Prior, should the Cubs decide to put either on the market.

 

In other words, if Lastings Milledge or Delmon Young is an A-plus prospect, what would you give for Wood or Prior?

 

Among these conversations, there was absolute consensus on three points:

 

1. Neither player has much value right now.

2. Unless the Cubs start turning it around very soon, in the dramatic way that the Astros and Athletics did last year, they should trade Wood before the July 31 deadline.

3. Circumstances will dictate that the Cubs keep Prior.

 

"I'd probably give no more than a C-level prospect for either," said an NL GM. "You have to look at their history, and look at their track record, and you'd have to be very cautious. Maybe you'd give a B prospect for one of them, but the team trading for him would have to be in a right situation. It'd have to be somebody in the pennant race -- like Omar [Minaya, GM of the Mets], or the Yankees or the Red Sox. It's such a tremendous gamble that you'd have to have the financial wherewithal to take that kind of gamble."

 

Another NL executive said: "I don't know what I'd give them, but it would be a heck of a lot less than someone like Delmon Young. A guy like Wood, I'd give a B or B-plus type prospect, or maybe a decent major leaguer. With Wood, you're talking about a guy who might make 20 more starts this year and then you've got to make a big financial decision."

 

The Cubs hold a $13.5 million option on Wood for 2007 with a $3 million buyout, a huge chunk of change. "That's a big hit to take financially, for someone with his injury history," the NL exec said.

 

And Prior? "He could fetch a little bit more of an asking price because you can control him for a little while longer before he becomes a free agent," the same exec said. "But he's got to show he's healthy. Trading for Prior is kind of dangerous. First, you're hoping he can be what he once was, and if he is, he's going to be very expensive with the two arbitration years."

 

An AL talent evaluator said he thinks the best use of Wood would be as a power middle reliever (seventh and eighth inning). "I watched Wood the other night, and as a starter, I think he's a shell of what he once was," the evaluator said. "For Wood, because of his contract situation, I'd give up no more than a C-level prospect. He's declining, and he's got that big option.

 

"For Prior, I'd give a B or B-plus. His upside is still great for me, and if he works it out, you suddenly could have the anchor of your staff for the next two years. You'd be taking a leap of faith on Prior, but it might be worth it."

Getting rid of him along with Guzman and Wood for nothing in return. Not my idea of a smart move. I think Prior is going to have a long and successful career. Hopefully, it will be in a Cubs uniform. Here is why I think that. His recent performances showed that he was getting his stuff back. He was throwing again in the mid-90s and was regaining his location of his fastball. His breaking pitches were also sharpening up. He was looking to be fully recovered from his shoulder injury this spring. Many of his previous injuries were either fluky and having nothing to do with his pitching motion or relatively minor. And he has returned from them in good form each time. He is still quite young and quite good. Trading him now when his value is at its lowest would be a horrible mistake. Simply getting rid of him now would be an even worse mistake.

 

Is it possible that Prior has fallen under the Cubs' curse and is also injury-prone like Kerry Wood? Yes. But its just as possible if not more so that he is not doomed to injury after injury until retirement. Let's try to keep that in mind. Okay?

 

I remember reading the article he is talking about I will try to hunt it down.

 

I found it.

 

It's Insider content on Olney's blog. Here's the link.

 

Vance, thanks for finding the article. It got placed in the post as if it were my quote, but no matter.

 

I read it and exactly one NL GM is quoted as saying he wouldn't be willing to trade a B level prospect for Prior. Synergy was claiming that it was GM after GM across the league. Not quite.

 

That brings up the real point, however, which is giving up on Prior at this stage of his career. Regardless of what his current trade value is or is said to be by those seeking to acquire him, Prior's worth is higher in the long run. He is at his lowest point right now. This is the exact wrong time to trade him or give up on him. Defending the notion that the Cubs should simply get rid of Prior is a very difficult thing to do. I got no problem in making the comment out of frustration, but claiming that it is actually a good idea to cut Prior loose at this point is indefensible.