The Jeff Samardzija Thread

[goonys evil twin]

Gotta agree with "Chiefsvoice" on this one!!! Can't really say what I would like about "BA". This publication has never given Son any credit and never promotes the "little guy". Take a look at their Top 50 you have a player that they constantly promote "mark rogers" and what has said player done?? nothing but yet he still projects. BA is a publication that sticks with their high draft picks or players they have fallen in love with and do nothing to promote anybody else. I have mentioned this in the past but not only about my son that there are plenty of players out there with better stats but because BA isn't in love with them and not one of their boys they do nothing for them. Son uses everything that they say about him as motivation and very rarely will he do an interview for them.

 

Sounds like you think the publications primary focus should be on promoting players.

[UBlink]

Gotta agree with "Chiefsvoice" on this one!!! Can't really say what I would like about "BA". This publication has never given Son any credit and never promotes the "little guy". Take a look at their Top 50 you have a player that they constantly promote "mark rogers" and what has said player done?? nothing but yet he still projects. BA is a publication that sticks with their high draft picks or players they have fallen in love with and do nothing to promote anybody else. I have mentioned this in the past but not only about my son that there are plenty of players out there with better stats but because BA isn't in love with them and not one of their boys they do nothing for them. Son uses everything that they say about him as motivation and very rarely will he do an interview for them.

 

Sounds like you think the publications primary focus should be on promoting players.

 

That's not how I read it - I saw it as a desire for the focus to be on balanced reporting based on actual performance, rather than perpetuating preconceived perceptions.

[goonys evil twin]

Gotta agree with "Chiefsvoice" on this one!!! Can't really say what I would like about "BA". This publication has never given Son any credit and never promotes the "little guy". Take a look at their Top 50 you have a player that they constantly promote "mark rogers" and what has said player done?? nothing but yet he still projects. BA is a publication that sticks with their high draft picks or players they have fallen in love with and do nothing to promote anybody else. I have mentioned this in the past but not only about my son that there are plenty of players out there with better stats but because BA isn't in love with them and not one of their boys they do nothing for them. Son uses everything that they say about him as motivation and very rarely will he do an interview for them.

 

Sounds like you think the publications primary focus should be on promoting players.

 

That's not how I read it - I saw it as a desire for the focus to be on balanced reporting based on actual performance, rather than perpetuating preconceived perceptions.

 

He's clearly angry that they stick with their guys even when performance would suggest others may have passed them by. But I'm still struck with a sense that he thinks BA's job is to promote the players' careers.

[CUBZ99]

Gotta agree with "Chiefsvoice" on this one!!! Can't really say what I would like about "BA". This publication has never given Son any credit and never promotes the "little guy". Take a look at their Top 50 you have a player that they constantly promote "mark rogers" and what has said player done?? nothing but yet he still projects. BA is a publication that sticks with their high draft picks or players they have fallen in love with and do nothing to promote anybody else. I have mentioned this in the past but not only about my son that there are plenty of players out there with better stats but because BA isn't in love with them and not one of their boys they do nothing for them. Son uses everything that they say about him as motivation and very rarely will he do an interview for them.

 

Sounds like you think the publications primary focus should be on promoting players.

 

That's not how I read it - I saw it as a desire for the focus to be on balanced reporting based on actual performance, rather than perpetuating preconceived perceptions.

 

He's clearly angry that they stick with their guys even when performance would suggest others may have passed them by. But I'm still struck with a sense that he thinks BA's job is to promote the players' careers.

 

I still dont' see where he stated the primary focus of BA was to promote players. Not to completely de-rail this topic, but do you believe that BA doesn't promote players? I think you would be naive to believe that these publications don't have some promotional and/or player development impact. You would also be naive to believe that there are no politics involved in the ratings process.

 

If you had a trade publication that evaluated your job performance on a yearly basis and consistently rated you below people that you were outperforming, you too might become a little irritated. And if many people in your industry subscribed to or read that trade publication, the impact of your lower rating would be tremendous.

 

In Gallagher's case and Patterson's case, BA's ratings do not seem to have an impact on how they are being evaluted in the Cubs system. It appears that the Cubs have been fairly aggressive in moving both of those players up the system. To both of their credits, they seemed to have used the lower ratings as motivation.

[illiniguy]

Any chance that Eric is ranked lower because of what Corey did ordidn't do after being ranked so high?

[Chris]

For the record, the overwhelming majority of players I have talked to have said that BA does not make it a point to check with them before running articles. I understand that it is impossible for the writers and/or staff to personally go and evaluate every player in the systems. However, it does strike me as odd that a group would write an article on a player without getting with said player.

[abuck1220]

Jeff was given a $250,000 bonus (split over 5 years) and has the potential to earn $7 million more over the next 5 years in a heavily back-loaded deal (so the longer he plays baseball, the more likely he is to earn the big bucks - it's only guaranteed if he sticks to baseball each year).

 

I gotta say, Samardzija doesn't have the seperation or speed to be too successful in the NFL (it'd help if he was a good route runner).

 

Everything I heard from Cubs brass is that this reported deal never happened....at least not the $7 million part....for what its worth...

 

Do you have any info on what he did sign for? For what it's worth, my informatin was based from ESPN and Baseball America.

 

BA sucks....from what I was told is that he got slot money (250k) for being drafted as the Cubs 2nd pick....and then is just paid like any other minor leaguer unless he completely ditches football....then they will renegotiate his deal...but does anyone really see that happening when the NFL signing bonus for a 1st rounder is a 7 figure deal?

 

do you have any support for your constant claims that BA sucks? i'd love to hear a few examples of guys that you correctly predicted to succeed that BA thought would suck or vice versa.

 

How about Eric Patterson and Sean Gallagher for starters....you guys have to understand that BA writers rarely, if ever see a player more than once or twice....they rely waaaaay too much on others for their "expert opinions"....very few MILB people use BA as a source....

 

first of all, neither patterson nor gallagher has done anything beyond AA, so let's not chalk those guys up as successes just yet. patterson was in BA's top 10 last year, and i'm sure both of them will be in the top 5 or so this year, so it's not like BA has some kind of vendetta against them.

 

and you constantly rail against BA for relying on others' opinions...how else do you expect them to do it? have one guy fly from sacramento to tulsa to norfolk to boise to vero beach just so he can see a guy with his own eyes? you want us (people who haven't seen the guys play) to rely on you (someone who has seen the guys play)...yet you don't want BA to rely on the opinions of people who have seen the guys play?

[Athletics36]

Yo Goony's look to be honest with you I really don't give a crap about what BA has to say about my Son. To be honest with you its just another crap publication. What I am trying to say is that if BA is going to put out these lists then please make them a "fair assesment" and not some BS as to players they hype!! I am tired of seeing players listed in their Top 100 who because of "projectability" keep making these lists and some of their players listed haven't even finished a full season due to injury. There are more players out there deserving to be put on these lists than folks they are in love with. Secondly what BA has to say about son has nothing to do with anything about development. All that matters to Son is what the organization thinks about him and thats all.

[goonys evil twin]

Yo Goony's look to be honest with you I really don't give a crap about what BA has to say about my Son. To be honest with you its just another crap publication. What I am trying to say is that if BA is going to put out these lists then please make them a "fair assesment" and not some BS as to players they hype!! I am tired of seeing players listed in their Top 100 who because of "projectability" keep making these lists and some of their players listed haven't even finished a full season due to injury. There are more players out there deserving to be put on these lists than folks they are in love with. Secondly what BA has to say about son has nothing to do with anything about development. All that matters to Son is what the organization thinks about him and thats all.

 

Well, I'm not a big fan of the method of rating players based on tools over performance. However, this publication has always made it clear that they put a larger emphasis on projectability and tools and upside as a prospect over performance in the minors. It's not like they are determining who gets a chance in the big leagues, they are merely channeling the thoughts of many of the people who do. Frankly, I'd be a little more annoyed with the scouts and personel people who drool over bodies, rather than a publication that gives a wide audience a chance to learn more about players they've never heard of or seen.

 

I'd rather they put out these lists than not. Less information is not better. It's not perfect, but no method of rating prospects is.

[Guest]

I am not going to take sides here. Being the owner of this website and being in the middle of an exercise of my own in ranking the prospects in the Cubs system, I know how hard it is to put these lists together. For me, each year I change how much weight I give to different factors in evaluating the players in an effort to do a better job.

 

I do want to ask a question of those chiming in against BA as being too stuck on tools and previous rankings: What do you think about Carmen Pignatiello? He clearly outperformed many other pitchers in 2006 and has put up very good numbers on a pretty consistent basis throughout his minor league career. Yet BA won't rank him, the Cubs didn't roster him and no other team selected him in the Rule 5 draft.

 

I guess the point I'm making is that sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story and a balance has to be found between performance and potential. BA is very open about favoring potential over performance. Other orgs such as BP favor performance. I struggle to find the happy medium.

 

I don't know if that helps or contributes much at all, but I am curious about the answer to the question.

[UK1679666180]

I am not going to take sides here. Being the owner of this website and being in the middle of an exercise of my own in ranking the prospects in the Cubs system, I know how hard it is to put these lists together. For me, each year I change how much weight I give to different factors in evaluating the players in an effort to do a better job.

 

I do want to ask a question of those chiming in against BA as being too stuck on tools and previous rankings: What do you think about Carmen Pignatiello? He clearly outperformed many other pitchers in 2006 and has put up very good numbers on a pretty consistent basis throughout his minor league career. Yet BA won't rank him, the Cubs didn't roster him and no other team selected him in the Rule 5 draft.

 

I guess the point I'm making is that sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story and a balance has to be found between performance and potential. BA is very open about favoring potential over performance. Other orgs such as BP favor performance. I struggle to find the happy medium.

 

I don't know if that helps or contributes much at all, but I am curious about the answer to the question.

 

It has to be a player by player basis rather than group vs. group, which goes back to tools IMO. As far as Piggy, how far can that deception take him is the question moreso than how far can his talent take him.

[ChiefsVoice]

Jeff was given a $250,000 bonus (split over 5 years) and has the potential to earn $7 million more over the next 5 years in a heavily back-loaded deal (so the longer he plays baseball, the more likely he is to earn the big bucks - it's only guaranteed if he sticks to baseball each year).

 

I gotta say, Samardzija doesn't have the seperation or speed to be too successful in the NFL (it'd help if he was a good route runner).

 

Everything I heard from Cubs brass is that this reported deal never happened....at least not the $7 million part....for what its worth...

 

Do you have any info on what he did sign for? For what it's worth, my informatin was based from ESPN and Baseball America.

 

BA sucks....from what I was told is that he got slot money (250k) for being drafted as the Cubs 2nd pick....and then is just paid like any other minor leaguer unless he completely ditches football....then they will renegotiate his deal...but does anyone really see that happening when the NFL signing bonus for a 1st rounder is a 7 figure deal?

 

do you have any support for your constant claims that BA sucks? i'd love to hear a few examples of guys that you correctly predicted to succeed that BA thought would suck or vice versa.

 

How about Eric Patterson and Sean Gallagher for starters....you guys have to understand that BA writers rarely, if ever see a player more than once or twice....they rely waaaaay too much on others for their "expert opinions"....very few MILB people use BA as a source....

 

first of all, neither patterson nor gallagher has done anything beyond AA, so let's not chalk those guys up as successes just yet. patterson was in BA's top 10 last year, and i'm sure both of them will be in the top 5 or so this year, so it's not like BA has some kind of vendetta against them.

 

and you constantly rail against BA for relying on others' opinions...how else do you expect them to do it? have one guy fly from sacramento to tulsa to norfolk to boise to vero beach just so he can see a guy with his own eyes? you want us (people who haven't seen the guys play) to rely on you (someone who has seen the guys play)...yet you don't want BA to rely on the opinions of people who have seen the guys play?

 

Patterson hit well over .300 for a month in AAA. Which is above AA. and yes, if they are legit, they would travel like that. Or at least call managers or beat writers who do see the kids every day. That would be a start!

 

I think if you asked most broadcasters you would get the same response. For example, I know which players are ranked, but I dont go on the air saying "Cameron Maybin BA's top prospect" or "BA says he can't field worth a lick".

 

Its a tough business that they are in. Im glad they exist, dont get me wrong. They make baseball and the industry better. They started the whole prospect angle which is awesome. I just wish they covered the players better and I don't take every word they write as gospel as some of you do because I have seen on many many instances where they are flat wrong year after year on guys. Eric and Sean are just two of those examples but from our days as a Cardinals affiliate there are quite a bit more such as the repeated high rankings of Shaun Boyd & Jimmy Journell. They fall in love with the big names way too much or the latin guys. Alfred Francisco at #15 in 2003 cause he signed as a 17 year olf for a lot of money? Come on. He never got past Low-A as a hitter and only hit here for a week....just one example.

[craig]

This is totally unrelated, but is a Q for Tim or somebody who knows. I got an email telling me that I got a private message from NSBB on my NSBB account, but unfortunately I am too poor to actually pay for NSBB premium privileges. (Sorry, Tim.)

 

How is it that I have some private account without being a premium paying customer? I've gotten these on occassion before. And wondered if I was missing out on some really interesting messages or questions or information. Is there any way to access such messages without paying? Or if not, to close the account so that nobody thinks they are actually commincating with me but I can't actually read it? (I'm just imagining somebody sending me a message asking me to correct something I said wrong, or to apologize for something I said wrong, and then I look like a creep because I never even respond or something...)

[NCCubFan]

Everybody has an account for getting and sending private messages; that's not a Premium feature. At the top of the page you should see a link that says something like "you have x new messages." Simply click on that link and you should then get your inbox, which will have all messages sent to you.

[abuck1220]

 

Patterson hit well over .300 for a month in AAA. Which is above AA. and yes, if they are legit, they would travel like that. Or at least call managers or beat writers who do see the kids every day. That would be a start! I think if you asked most broadcasters you would get the same response.

 

i really can't comprehend how you think it would be better for BA to get their information from talking to beat writers than to get it from talking to scouts. both sources are secondhand and both sources have seen the players play...but beat writers are going to invariably be very, very, very biased in their opinions. plus, and no offense, i would trust the opinion of a scout over a media guy every day of the week. announcers/writers are students of broadcasting/media, scouts have likely spent their entire lives in baseball.

 

also, go ahead and look at their top 100 list from last year. they have managers' quotes all over the place. they absolutely do talk to managers/coaches, and you're simply wrong in saying that they don't.

 

I just wish they covered the players better and I don't take every word they write as gospel as some of you do because I have seen on many many instances where they are flat wrong year after year on guys.

 

and they're also flat out right year after year on some guys. and you're flat out wrong on some guys. it's not an exact science, and, despite what you say, i don't believe BA promotes itself as the "gospel," nor do i think anyone else believes it to be.

[KingCubsFan]

Considering the business that BA is in, they do an incredibly good job at rating prospects and judging long-term potential. Simply pointing out one or two players that they failed to rate as top prospects really isn't a good indicator of their success. Go look at MLB all-star teams, MVPS, top performers, etc. and most of them will have been rated highly by BA at one point or another. Furthermore, look at BA's Minor League Players of the Year (which takes long-term potential into account), and you will find that they have a pretty good track record there too.

Eric Patterson and Sean Gallagher aren't good examples either. Patterson doesn't deserve to be considered a top prospect. Any 23 year old college player who, as a leadoff hitter, puts up a .330 OBP should not be rated highly. He's simply overrated on this board. And Gallagher has always been on BA's radar. They simply expressed concerns about his frame and his mediocre fastball, which are both valid concerns. Jimmy Journell was actually a good prospect, he just got injured. And Shaun Boyd dropped in the rankings every year as he continued to underperform.

When making rankings, BA looks to minor league evaluators, managers, scouts and statistics to make an opinion. I can't think of any better way to do it. If you look strictly at performance, you end up comparing Brendan Harris to Albert Pujols

[ChiefsVoice]

 

Patterson hit well over .300 for a month in AAA. Which is above AA. and yes, if they are legit, they would travel like that. Or at least call managers or beat writers who do see the kids every day. That would be a start! I think if you asked most broadcasters you would get the same response.

 

i really can't comprehend how you think it would be better for BA to get their information from talking to beat writers than to get it from talking to scouts. both sources are secondhand and both sources have seen the players play...but beat writers are going to invariably be very, very, very biased in their opinions. plus, and no offense, i would trust the opinion of a scout over a media guy every day of the week. announcers/writers are students of broadcasting/media, scouts have likely spent their entire lives in baseball.

 

also, go ahead and look at their top 100 list from last year. they have managers' quotes all over the place. they absolutely do talk to managers/coaches, and you're simply wrong in saying that they don't.

 

I just wish they covered the players better and I don't take every word they write as gospel as some of you do because I have seen on many many instances where they are flat wrong year after year on guys.

 

and they're also flat out right year after year on some guys. and you're flat out wrong on some guys. it's not an exact science, and, despite what you say, i don't believe BA promotes itself as the "gospel," nor do i think anyone else believes it to be.

 

You seem to think its the gospel or we wouldnt even be having this discussion. And I'm not saying that I'm never wrong on guys. I am. We all are. I'm saying that there are scouting services out there who are much much better than BA. The only people who put BA #1 are the people who arent "in the know." And scouts are no better, just more arrogant....

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You seem to think its the gospel or we wouldnt even be having this discussion. And I'm not saying that I'm never wrong on guys. I am. We all are. I'm saying that there are scouting services out there who are much much better than BA. The only people who put BA #1 are the people who arent "in the know." And scouts are no better, just more arrogant....

 

When someone responds to a line of posts that begins with "BA sucks", it does not mean they think BA is the be all end all of minor league information. What other scouting services are better than BA?

[goonys evil twin]

Any 23 year old college player who, as a leadoff hitter, puts up a .330 OBP should not be rated highly. He's simply overrated on this board.

 

I'm not sure that's a fair statement. His minor league OBP is .368. He had a .330 in a partial season at AA (.395 after the bump to AAA). I think he's probably overrated by some, but he's not solely a .330 OBP kind of guy.

[Mephistopheles]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/features/263061.html

 

did anyone post this

[ChiefsVoice]

You seem to think its the gospel or we wouldnt even be having this discussion. And I'm not saying that I'm never wrong on guys. I am. We all are. I'm saying that there are scouting services out there who are much much better than BA. The only people who put BA #1 are the people who arent "in the know." And scouts are no better, just more arrogant....

 

When someone responds to a line of posts that begins with "BA sucks", it does not mean they think BA is the be all end all of minor league information. What other scouting services are better than BA?

 

I prefer Baseball Prospectus. Also John Sickels is good. I really just read any articles I can find and dont worry about who publishes them. I learn much much more about the players I watch from other broadcasters, college articles (for those who play college ball), die-hard fans and local newspaper articles than from any of these "scouting services"

[ChiefsVoice]

Considering the business that BA is in, they do an incredibly good job at rating prospects and judging long-term potential. Simply pointing out one or two players that they failed to rate as top prospects really isn't a good indicator of their success. Go look at MLB all-star teams, MVPS, top performers, etc. and most of them will have been rated highly by BA at one point or another. Furthermore, look at BA's Minor League Players of the Year (which takes long-term potential into account), and you will find that they have a pretty good track record there too.

Eric Patterson and Sean Gallagher aren't good examples either. Patterson doesn't deserve to be considered a top prospect. Any 23 year old college player who, as a leadoff hitter, puts up a .330 OBP should not be rated highly. He's simply overrated on this board. And Gallagher has always been on BA's radar. They simply expressed concerns about his frame and his mediocre fastball, which are both valid concerns. Jimmy Journell was actually a good prospect, he just got injured. And Shaun Boyd dropped in the rankings every year as he continued to underperform.

When making rankings, BA looks to minor league evaluators, managers, scouts and statistics to make an opinion. I can't think of any better way to do it. If you look strictly at performance, you end up comparing Brendan Harris to Albert Pujols

 

Just curious if you have seen ethier Gallagher or Patterson play in person more than 2 or 3 times?

[Mephistopheles]

Sickels is a huge step below BA. Goldstein is one man as far as the scouting goes - and he's essentially a BA graduate.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/features/263061.html

 

did anyone post this

 

Nah, thanks.

[UK1679666180]

I use BA to find out the background of a player, story behind his drafting and what not. I find their quick reviews of players to be useful as well, but like almost every other ranking regardless of whom it comes from in that regard (BA, BP, etc.) to be more of something to compare to rather than something to based upon.