7/6 Cubs (Maddux) @ Brewers (Capuano) 7:05 PM WCIU

[Blueheart05]

I've been listening for 1 1/2 innings, and I'm already sick of the Brewers announce team.

 

Why does everybody in baseball defend Dusty Baker?

 

The only argument they every make is something like:

 

Dusty didn't get thrown out at third.

Dusty didn't blow that save.

etc.

 

If the manager doesn't make a difference, why are we paying ours $4 million a year?

 

 

 

I have to agree with the idea that Dusty isn't playing for the team. If they do something dumb or are ineffective it's on the players. Dusty is responsible for strategic blunders however.

What happens when everything they do is either dumb or ineffective?

 

There's the old saying " you can't fire 25 guys..." So the manager becomes the fall guy.

 

I don't agree with a lot of Dusty's moves but I don't excuse the poor play of this team (both individually and collectively). A number of players are underachieving in key situations.

Edited July 7, 2006 by Blueheart05

[CubinNY]

I've been listening for 1 1/2 innings, and I'm already sick of the Brewers announce team.

 

Why does everybody in baseball defend Dusty Baker?

 

The only argument they every make is something like:

 

Dusty didn't get thrown out at third.

Dusty didn't blow that save.

etc.

 

If the manager doesn't make a difference, why are we paying ours $4 million a year?

 

I have to agree with the idea that Dusty isn't playing for the team. If they do something dumb or are ineffective it's on the players. Dusty is responsible for strategic blunders however.

 

That's just BS. The things they do that are dumb and ineffective are a direct result of the manager. It's not like these things happen every once in a while. The mistakes they make are repetitive. Repetitive mistakes are the manger's fault.

 

I am sick and tired I hearing that crap. This is a terrible baseball team BECAUSE Dusty is the manager.

[Blueheart05]

 

I have to agree with the idea that Dusty isn't playing for the team. If they do something dumb or are ineffective sometimes it's on the player. Dusty is responsible for strategic blunders however.

 

Followup question, then (not specifically for you):

 

If Dusty's bad strategy is the problem, why do most of the posters here keep suggesting managers known for the same type of strategic blunders?

 

Some people just want a change because the current situation isn't working...

[Irrelevant Dude]

Going back to Ramirez's lack of hustle last inning...

 

What if just once Dusty would have pulled him out of the game immediately? Wouldn't that make him less likely to repeat that same behavior again?

 

Using the same example with Scott Skiles and the Bulls, if one of their players makes a dumb play or isn't hustling he would be taken out of the game right away. The Bulls players respond and even though they didn't quite have enough talent, they played harder than any other team I saw in the playoffs this year.

 

If Ramirez is lazy and nobody ever says anything to him and there aren't any consequences, why would he do any different than jog to first base?

[sherwood921]

If I'm the manager I yell at Aramis not because he was too aggressive and made stupid decision(even though that was really dumb), but I yell at him because had he not been loafing like always he probably would have actually been safe.

[UMFan83]

Going back to Ramirez's lack of hustle last inning...

 

What if just once Dusty would have pulled him out of the game immediately? Wouldn't that make him less likely to repeat that same behavior again?

 

Using the same example with Scott Skiles and the Bulls, if one of their players makes a dumb play or isn't hustling he would be taken out of the game right away. The Bulls players respond and even though they didn't quite have enough talent, they played harder than any other team I saw in the playoffs this year.

 

If Ramirez is lazy and nobody ever says anything to him and there aren't any consequences, why would he do any different than jog to first base?

 

Yeah but Skiles can put him back in the game whenever he wishes. Ramirez might come back to hit the GW Homer. Not that I don't agree with you, I'm just simply stating why that is not an effective argument

[Schwarber Fan]

Roberto Novoa relieves Greg Maddux

Chris Capuano grounds out to SS, 6-3

Rickie Weeks doubles to LF

Jeff Cirillo flies out to RF, Weeks hokding at 2nd

Scott Eyre relives Roberto Novoa

Geoff Jenkins strikes out swinging, 2-3

 

0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors, 1 LOB

 

Cubs 0, Brewers 2

[Blueheart05]

I've been listening for 1 1/2 innings, and I'm already sick of the Brewers announce team.

 

Why does everybody in baseball defend Dusty Baker?

 

The only argument they every make is something like:

 

Dusty didn't get thrown out at third.

Dusty didn't blow that save.

etc.

 

If the manager doesn't make a difference, why are we paying ours $4 million a year?

 

I have to agree with the idea that Dusty isn't playing for the team. If they do something dumb or are ineffective it's on the players. Dusty is responsible for strategic blunders however.

 

That's just BS. The things they do that are dumb and ineffective are a direct result of the manager. It's not like these things happen every once in a while. The mistakes they make are repetitive. Repetitive mistakes are the manger's fault.

 

I am sick and tired I hearing that crap. This is a terrible baseball team BECAUSE Dusty is the manager.

 

It's not BS. The majority of the stupid plays have been committed by veteran players that shouldn't need a manager to hold their hand. This team isn't going to improve JUST BECAUSE THERE'S A NEW MANAGER.

Edited July 7, 2006 by Blueheart05

[Irrelevant Dude]

Going back to Ramirez's lack of hustle last inning...

 

What if just once Dusty would have pulled him out of the game immediately? Wouldn't that make him less likely to repeat that same behavior again?

 

Using the same example with Scott Skiles and the Bulls, if one of their players makes a dumb play or isn't hustling he would be taken out of the game right away. The Bulls players respond and even though they didn't quite have enough talent, they played harder than any other team I saw in the playoffs this year.

 

If Ramirez is lazy and nobody ever says anything to him and there aren't any consequences, why would he do any different than jog to first base?

 

Yeah but Skiles can put him back in the game whenever he wishes. Ramirez might come back to hit the GW Homer. Not that I don't agree with you, I'm just simply stating why that is not an effective argument

That's true, but he usually doesn't put them back in much though. When someone does something bad enough to get in Skiles' doghouse he's usually pretty much done for the rest of the game.

[Tim Burr]

A team is a reflection or mirror image of the manager or coach. That is why the good ones will take respondsiblity!

[Irrelevant Dude]

I've been listening for 1 1/2 innings, and I'm already sick of the Brewers announce team.

 

Why does everybody in baseball defend Dusty Baker?

 

The only argument they every make is something like:

 

Dusty didn't get thrown out at third.

Dusty didn't blow that save.

etc.

 

If the manager doesn't make a difference, why are we paying ours $4 million a year?

 

I have to agree with the idea that Dusty isn't playing for the team. If they do something dumb or are ineffective it's on the players. Dusty is responsible for strategic blunders however.

 

That's just BS. The things they do that are dumb and ineffective are a direct result of the manager. It's not like these things happen every once in a while. The mistakes they make are repetitive. Repetitive mistakes are the manger's fault.

 

I am sick and tired I hearing that crap. This is a terrible baseball team BECAUSE Dusty is the manager.

 

It's not BS. The majority of the stupid plays have been committed by veteran players that shouldn't need a manager to hold their hand. This team isn't going to improve JUST BECAUSE THERE'S IS A NEW MANAGER.

And these stupid plays have been made by a variety of different veteran players over a number of years. It's not just 1 or 2 guys, it's a lot of them. Why don't other teams have the same problem?

[bobbyd20]

 

I have to agree with the idea that Dusty isn't playing for the team. If they do something dumb or are ineffective sometimes it's on the player. Dusty is responsible for strategic blunders however.

 

Followup question, then (not specifically for you):

 

If Dusty's bad strategy is the problem, why do most of the posters here keep suggesting managers known for the same type of strategic blunders?

 

Some people just want a change because the current situation isn't working...

 

Other people want change because the manager can't (or refuses to)

 

fill out a lineup card correctly

 

manage the pitching staff effectively

 

utilize young players in situations best suited to their talents

 

hold players accountable for terrible fundamental play

 

understand the importance of getting on base

 

drill the pitching staff of the importance of throwing strikes and pitching to contact

 

etc

 

etc

 

etc

[Schwarber Fan]

Top 8th

 

Michael Barrett, pinch hitting for Henry Blanco, flies out to deep LF

Phil Nevin, pinch hitting for Scott Eyre, strikes out swinging

Juan Pierre grounds out to 2nd, 4-3

 

0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, 0 LOB

 

Cubs 0, Brewers 2

 

Capuano - 82 pitches :shock: :lol: :oops: :cry:

[Rusch33]

I see that we're back to knocking the laces off of the ball tonight.

[Blueheart05]

I've been listening for 1 1/2 innings, and I'm already sick of the Brewers announce team.

 

Why does everybody in baseball defend Dusty Baker?

 

The only argument they every make is something like:

 

Dusty didn't get thrown out at third.

Dusty didn't blow that save.

etc.

 

If the manager doesn't make a difference, why are we paying ours $4 million a year?

 

I have to agree with the idea that Dusty isn't playing for the team. If they do something dumb or are ineffective it's on the players. Dusty is responsible for strategic blunders however.

 

That's just BS. The things they do that are dumb and ineffective are a direct result of the manager. It's not like these things happen every once in a while. The mistakes they make are repetitive. Repetitive mistakes are the manger's fault.

 

I am sick and tired I hearing that crap. This is a terrible baseball team BECAUSE Dusty is the manager.

 

It's not BS. The majority of the stupid plays have been committed by veteran players that shouldn't need a manager to hold their hand. This team isn't going to improve JUST BECAUSE THERE'S IS A NEW MANAGER.

And these stupid plays have been made by a variety of different veteran players over a number of years. It's not just 1 or 2 guys, it's a lot of them. Why don't other teams have the same problem?

 

I don't know why the manager is the only one in the hot seat when this team was ill conceived. Hendry is to blame for personnel of the field. People keep using Bobby Cox-like analogies of benching players for a lack of hustle but the truth is, he has only done that with young players (not veterans). If a GM acquires a veteran player with a reputation for being lazy there's only so much a manager can do (short of constantly be at odds with the player and or refusing to use him; which ultimately hurts the team if the player has a key role).

 

I'm not being a Dusty apologist but these players are making themselves look bad with their poor play. There's only so much someone can do from the dugout. A change of managers without corresponding personnel changes isn't going to provide improvement.

[JonnyRed]

Just wondering....Has a pitcher EVER held a team scoreless for 25 straight innings? I wish we could fire the entire team right about now.

[CubinNY]

I've been listening for 1 1/2 innings, and I'm already sick of the Brewers announce team.

 

Why does everybody in baseball defend Dusty Baker?

 

The only argument they every make is something like:

 

Dusty didn't get thrown out at third.

Dusty didn't blow that save.

etc.

 

If the manager doesn't make a difference, why are we paying ours $4 million a year?

 

I have to agree with the idea that Dusty isn't playing for the team. If they do something dumb or are ineffective it's on the players. Dusty is responsible for strategic blunders however.

 

That's just BS. The things they do that are dumb and ineffective are a direct result of the manager. It's not like these things happen every once in a while. The mistakes they make are repetitive. Repetitive mistakes are the manger's fault.

 

I am sick and tired I hearing that crap. This is a terrible baseball team BECAUSE Dusty is the manager.

 

It's not BS. The majority of the stupid plays have been committed by veteran players that shouldn't need a manager to hold their hand. This team isn't going to improve JUST BECAUSE THERE'S IS A NEW MANAGER.

 

Are you kidding me? This team would improve a great deal if Neifi freaking Perez wasn't hitting in the 2 hole 3 days a week platooning with Todd Walker or subing for Cedeno on a double switch.

 

This team would improve a great deal if the manager didn't feel the need to "run to the hot hand" out of the bullpen and let the closer sit on the bench 4 out of every 7 days.

 

This team would improve if Glendon freaking Rusch had a seat next to Dick Pole on the bench and never saw the field again.

 

And most importantly, Tthis team would improve if veteran ballpalyers lost playing time becuase they didn't hustle out of the box on a double or missed the cut off man for the sixth freaking time in a month.

 

I cannot believe you are defending a manager of a 90 million dollar team on its way to losing a hundred games. It's beyond obsurd.

 

One last thing, the 2003 Marlins improved a great deal when Torborg was shown the door and Mckeon was put in charge. He got rid of the likes of Todd Hollandsworth, yes that Todd Hollandsworth and crappy starters and went with young kids. Low and behold they had the best record in baseball after he took over.

Edited July 7, 2006 by CubinNY

[Irrelevant Dude]

I've been listening for 1 1/2 innings, and I'm already sick of the Brewers announce team.

 

Why does everybody in baseball defend Dusty Baker?

 

The only argument they every make is something like:

 

Dusty didn't get thrown out at third.

Dusty didn't blow that save.

etc.

 

If the manager doesn't make a difference, why are we paying ours $4 million a year?

 

I have to agree with the idea that Dusty isn't playing for the team. If they do something dumb or are ineffective it's on the players. Dusty is responsible for strategic blunders however.

 

That's just BS. The things they do that are dumb and ineffective are a direct result of the manager. It's not like these things happen every once in a while. The mistakes they make are repetitive. Repetitive mistakes are the manger's fault.

 

I am sick and tired I hearing that crap. This is a terrible baseball team BECAUSE Dusty is the manager.

 

It's not BS. The majority of the stupid plays have been committed by veteran players that shouldn't need a manager to hold their hand. This team isn't going to improve JUST BECAUSE THERE'S IS A NEW MANAGER.

And these stupid plays have been made by a variety of different veteran players over a number of years. It's not just 1 or 2 guys, it's a lot of them. Why don't other teams have the same problem?

 

I don't know why the manager is the only one in the hot seat when this team was ill conceived. Hendry is to blame for personnel of the field. People keep using Bobby Cox-like analogies of benching players for a lack of hustle but the truth is, he has only done that with young players (not veterans). If a GM acquires a veteran player with a reputation for being lazy there's only so much a manager can do (short of constantly be at odds with the player and or refusing to use him; which ultimately hurts the team if the player has a key role).

 

I'm not being a Dusty apologist but these players are making themselves look bad with their poor play. There's only so much someone can do from the dugout. A change of managers without corresponding personnel changes isn't going to provide improvement.

Nobody is absolving Hendry of any blame. He has as much fault as Baker, if not more, but the fact is he already has his contract extension and is not going to be fired. The ideal situation would be for the entire slate to be wiped clean from top to bottom, but since that's not going to happen then the next best thing is to at least get rid of part of the problem (Baker and his staff).

[Schwarber Fan]

Bottom 8th

 

Scott Williamson in to pitch

Carlos Lee singles to CF

Prince Fielder grounds into 4-6-3 DP

Bill Hall grounds out to 3rd, 5-3

 

0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors, 0 LOB

 

Cubs 0, Brewers 2

[Rob]

I think the measure of how badly Dusty wants out of here at this point is going to be determined from whether or not he pinch hits Walker for Neifi here.

 

Edit:

 

Buh Bye Dusty.

Edited July 7, 2006 by Rob

[Irrelevant Dude]

Popped it up, Willie Mays Hayes style.

[Rob]

Lee with the double to oppo.

[Rusch33]

Maddux gave up 2 and going to get the lost.

 

Nothing new.

[Blueheart05]

I've been listening for 1 1/2 innings, and I'm already sick of the Brewers announce team.

 

Why does everybody in baseball defend Dusty Baker?

 

The only argument they every make is something like:

 

Dusty didn't get thrown out at third.

Dusty didn't blow that save.

etc.

 

If the manager doesn't make a difference, why are we paying ours $4 million a year?

 

I have to agree with the idea that Dusty isn't playing for the team. If they do something dumb or are ineffective it's on the players. Dusty is responsible for strategic blunders however.

 

That's just BS. The things they do that are dumb and ineffective are a direct result of the manager. It's not like these things happen every once in a while. The mistakes they make are repetitive. Repetitive mistakes are the manger's fault.

 

I am sick and tired I hearing that crap. This is a terrible baseball team BECAUSE Dusty is the manager.

 

It's not BS. The majority of the stupid plays have been committed by veteran players that shouldn't need a manager to hold their hand. This team isn't going to improve JUST BECAUSE THERE'S IS A NEW MANAGER.

 

Are you kidding me. This team would improve a great deal if Neifi freaking Perez wasn't hitting in the 2 hole 3 days a week platooning with Todd Walker or subing for Cedeno on a double switch.

 

This team would improve a great deal if the manager didn't feel the need to "run to the hot hand" out of the bullpen and let the closer sit on the bench 4 out of every 7 days.

 

This team would improve if Glendon freaking Rusch had a seat next to Dick Pole on the bench and never saw the field again.

 

And most importantly, Tthis team would improve if veteran ballpalyers lost playing time becuase they didn't hustle out of the box on a double or missed the cut of man for the sixth freaking time in a month.

 

I cannot believe you are defending a manager of a 90 million dollar team on its way to losing a hundered games. It's beyond obsurd.

 

One last thing, the 2003 Marlins improved a great deal when Torborg was shown the door and Mckeon was put in charge. He got rid of the likes of Todd Hollandswort, yes that Todd Hollandswort and crappy starters and went with young kids. Low and behold they had the best record in baseball after he took over.

 

 

Baker can only play the guys on the 25 man roster. Glendon Rusch was given a 2 year extension by the GM and slated to pitch in the rotation because the GM didn't correctly address the pitching problems. I can't believe that this situation is all Baker's fault. For every McKeon success there are more failures (and that team had its fair share of veteran players). There's nothing wrong with playing young guys but expecting to win with guys who are fresh out of AA and AAA is unrealistic for the most part especially in high pressure markets. The Braves seem to get away with it but few other teams have had that success. The bottom line is, the 2006 Chicago Cubs were flawed before the first pitch was thrown. The manager is responsible for his fair share of mistakes but there is plenty of blame to go around (namely, the GM and individual players).

[cjbucks]

Maddux gave up 2 and going to get the lost.

 

Nothing new.

 

There you go just blaming the hitters again........you are going to make Aramis mad :wink: