I would strongly consider trading Ryan Dempster

[goonys evil twin]

The 2006 season is virtually over. The Cubs have to start thinking about trading veterans and building for the future.

 

There has been lots of talk of trading guys like Rusch and Neifi. But you won't get much for those bums. There is a chance they could get something for Jones, and lots of people have talked about throwing in a bullpen arm to sweeten the deal (Wuertz, Williamson, Novoa) and maybe even Walker. Ramirez's name has come up in talks about ARod.

 

But what about Dempster? He just signed a 3 year deal that pays him $5+ million in 2007 and 2008. He had a great year in the closers role in 2005, but 2006 has been shaky at best. His peripherals are scary, as his number 1 problem, walks, continue to be an issue. He simply allows too many baserunners to qualify as an elite closer. He's basically been no better than Williamson, except he's healthy and has racked up save totals, which aren't all that telling of a pitcher's success. I think he might still retain value among the GM crowd because of his past success and the save totals. And I don't think he's a necessary component to future Cubs success.

 

People complain about the lack of good Cubs closers in the past, but the fact is their historical roster is loaded with guys who were great at finishing games, it's just that most of them weren't great for very long.

 

I would hope Hendry would strongly consider moving Dempster if asked. And I'd like to see him dangle Ryan by the trading deadline when contenders routinely go crazy looking for viable relievers. The Yankees are desperate for guys that can bridge the gap to Rivera, not to mention they need OF help and starting pitchers. The Mets are already talking about relief help, despite having a couple guys doing well down there.

 

Hendry needs to restock an ailing rotation and fill the enormous voids in the lineup. Staking your hopes on an improved bullpen was never the right move by Hendry, and he better be willing to chip away at some of the surplus relievers to help field a better team. My bet is that some combination of Dempster, Williamson, Howry, Eyre, Wuertz, Novoa, Jones, Walker and a couple prospects could net the Cubs some serious talent upgrades where it is needed.

 

While some might instinctively say, "why break up the best part of the team", I say it's foolish to hold onto certain pieces because they are the most prominent of a bad bunch. The bullpen was never going to, and never will, carry this team. The rotation and lineup are far more important to the overall success of the team. Relievers have short shelf lives. Teams need to maximize value on these guys when they are good, and not be afraid to toss guys aside when opportunity arises for improvement elsewhere.

[Banedon]

I'm with you. I'm really all for trading just about anyone on this team at this point, especially the "bargains". That makes Walker, Jones, Dempster and the like very tradeable in my opinion. I don't have faith that Dempster will remain a solid closer long term anyway. He was really good there for a long stretch, and that's all well and good, but he's shown some cracks in the armor that make me think he may not be the best long term option there.

[CoolHandLuke]

Agree wholeheartedly.

 

Hendry is not one to sell high and he will never do this. :cry:

 

We need a new gm.

[mg420]

not a bad idea if there is someone around to replace him. alot depends on if his current struggles are due to lack of use or loss of stuff. i would prefer keeping dempster & trading williamson, novoa, walker, pierre, jones & howry if possible myself. there are a few guys in the minors like wuertz, atlee & rapada who can take over in the pen to go along with eyre, ohman & dempster.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Dempster's not that big of a deal to me. I'm fine if he stays or goes. I think his inconsistency of late coincides with the inconsistency in which he is used. His contract isn't too bad, but I'd help him pack if he was needed to get something like Abreu.

[soapy]

I'm certainly not opposed to trading Dempster at all. If you add in someone like Walker, you could probably get some decent talent in return. I'd be interested to see how Hendry would try to fill that spot next year. Williamson? There are some possible injury concerns there (plus he's a free agent). Honestly, I'd be game for letting Howry, Eyre, Williamson (if re-signed), Wuertz and Aardsma all battle it out for the rest of this year to see who will take over the closer role in 2007. I've never been a huge believer in the "closer mentality" anyway.

[goonys evil twin]

not a bad idea if there is someone around to replace him. alot depends on if his current struggles are due to lack of use or loss of stuff. i would prefer keeping dempster & trading williamson, novoa, walker, pierre, jones & howry if possible myself. there are a few guys in the minors like wuertz, atlee & rapada who can take over in the pen to go along with eyre, ohman & dempster.

 

Who cares if there is somebody to replace him? You don't need a closer to win 70 games. At the rate he's going, you might have to replace him anyway by next season.

 

Besides, Howry is having a much better year and could easily step into the role Howry is more affordable and has better peripherals. I'd rather keep him and deal Dempster, whose status as a "proven" closer might bring back more value in trade.

[FergieJ31]

not a bad idea if there is someone around to replace him. alot depends on if his current struggles are due to lack of use or loss of stuff. i would prefer keeping dempster & trading williamson, novoa, walker, pierre, jones & howry if possible myself. there are a few guys in the minors like wuertz, atlee & rapada who can take over in the pen to go along with eyre, ohman & dempster.

 

Who cares if there is somebody to replace him? You don't need a closer to win 70 games. At the rate he's going, you might have to replace him anyway by next season.

 

Besides, Howry is having a much better year and could easily step into the role Howry is more affordable and has better peripherals. I'd rather keep him and deal Dempster, whose status as a "proven" closer might bring back more value in trade.

 

I love Demp but I'm completely on-board with the idea of trading him. The market tends to overvalue closers. He has the stuff to close, but even when he's on he walks way too many guys to be dependable. I'd be comfortable seeing Howry slotted as the 2007 closer.

[RynoRules]

We do have plenty of relief options, so I wouldn't be opposed to dealing him.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Plus Marmol and Wells could slot in at closer and do a good job, imo.

 

Dempster would be a far more valuable trading commodity than anyone else who's likely going to be moved by the Cubs.

[baseball7897]

Dempster has struggled in the closer role recently because he gets 1 save chance every other week. Im not sure if Jim would trade him because now your creating another hole for the 07 team. You already need a new CF, a 2B, 2 starters, a arm in the pen, a LF maybe, and you may need a RF.

[RockTheIvy]

Plus Marmol and Wells could slot in at closer and do a good job, imo.

 

Dempster would be a far more valuable trading commodity than anyone else who's likely going to be moved by the Cubs.

 

I'd be fine with giving Wells a shot, but I think Marmol is too talented to be a one inning guy.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Plus Marmol and Wells could slot in at closer and do a good job, imo.

 

Dempster would be a far more valuable trading commodity than anyone else who's likely going to be moved by the Cubs.

 

I'd be fine with giving Wells a shot, but I think Marmol is too talented to be a one inning guy.

 

I would prefer Marmol be a starter but there are those who's opinions I think highly of who think he'd be a better as a reliever.

[goonys evil twin]

Dempster has struggled in the closer role recently because he gets 1 save chance every other week. Im not sure if Jim would trade him because now your creating another hole for the 07 team. You already need a new CF, a 2B, 2 starters, a arm in the pen, a LF maybe, and you may need a RF.

 

And it's a lot easier to find a reliever than it is to find solid starters and position players.

[mg420]

not a bad idea if there is someone around to replace him. alot depends on if his current struggles are due to lack of use or loss of stuff. i would prefer keeping dempster & trading williamson, novoa, walker, pierre, jones & howry if possible myself. there are a few guys in the minors like wuertz, atlee & rapada who can take over in the pen to go along with eyre, ohman & dempster.

 

Who cares if there is somebody to replace him? You don't need a closer to win 70 games. At the rate he's going, you might have to replace him anyway by next season.

 

Besides, Howry is having a much better year and could easily step into the role Howry is more affordable and has better peripherals. I'd rather keep him and deal Dempster, whose status as a "proven" closer might bring back more value in trade.

what about next year & beyond? it should be easier to get a rf than a premier closer (which dempster was last year). maybe negron will be called up to play cf if they trade jones for cabrera & cabrera could play rf. i dont want to see howry close myself. he throws far too many fastballs imo and i would rather they trade howry than dempster. dempsters value is less so far this year anyway due to his recent struggles and the cubs would be selling low imo.

[RockTheIvy]

not a bad idea if there is someone around to replace him. alot depends on if his current struggles are due to lack of use or loss of stuff. i would prefer keeping dempster & trading williamson, novoa, walker, pierre, jones & howry if possible myself. there are a few guys in the minors like wuertz, atlee & rapada who can take over in the pen to go along with eyre, ohman & dempster.

 

Who cares if there is somebody to replace him? You don't need a closer to win 70 games. At the rate he's going, you might have to replace him anyway by next season.

 

Besides, Howry is having a much better year and could easily step into the role Howry is more affordable and has better peripherals. I'd rather keep him and deal Dempster, whose status as a "proven" closer might bring back more value in trade.

what about next year & beyond? it should be easier to get a rf than a premier closer (which dempster was last year). maybe negron will be called up to play cf if they trade jones for cabrera & cabrera could play rf. i dont want to see howry close myself. he throws far too many fastballs imo and i would rather they trade howry than dempster. dempsters value is less so far this year anyway due to his recent struggles and the cubs would be selling low imo.

 

It just kills me thatw ith all of the talent and all the mph that the Cubs accumulate in their system, they still cannot create a closer, so they spend more money and let more talent rot in the minors or on the bench.

[goonys evil twin]

what about next year & beyond? it should be easier to get a rf than a premier closer (which dempster was last year). maybe negron will be called up to play cf if they trade jones for cabrera & cabrera could play rf. i dont want to see howry close myself. he throws far too many fastballs imo and i would rather they trade howry than dempster. dempsters value is less so far this year anyway due to his recent struggles and the cubs would be selling low imo.

 

My point is they need to build an entire team for next year and beyond, and not just worry about bullpen stability. Dempster's past and present doesn't indicate he's much of a guarantee to help in the future anyway. Dempster is not a premier closer. It doesn't matter if he was really good for 5 months. He was never among the elite, and he never will be. He did a fine job. But loads of relievers have had great years as a closer only to prove unable to maintain that pace. Howry is better than Dempster, but just as your post shows, Dempster carries a perceived higher value because of the label as closer. I believe the Cubs could get more value by trading Dempster and keeping Howry. But I wouldn't have a problem dealing Howry. It would be negligent to refuse to deal Dempster if something big came along.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Dempster's not that big of a deal to me. I'm fine if he stays or goes. I think his inconsistency of late coincides with the inconsistency in which he is used. His contract isn't too bad, but I'd help him pack if he was needed to get something like Abreu.

 

Kudos.

 

If you can get a more significant part of the team for him by auctioning him off at the deadline, then go for it.

[frostwyrm]

I'd trade Demp in a heartbeat, even if the return is small. I might even just give him away. IMO his track record didn't justify 3yrs./$15.5 million.

[soccer10k]

not a bad idea if there is someone around to replace him. alot depends on if his current struggles are due to lack of use or loss of stuff. i would prefer keeping dempster & trading williamson, novoa, walker, pierre, jones & howry if possible myself. there are a few guys in the minors like wuertz, atlee & rapada who can take over in the pen to go along with eyre, ohman & dempster.

 

Who cares if there is somebody to replace him? You don't need a closer to win 70 games. At the rate he's going, you might have to replace him anyway by next season.

 

Besides, Howry is having a much better year and could easily step into the role Howry is more affordable and has better peripherals. I'd rather keep him and deal Dempster, whose status as a "proven" closer might bring back more value in trade.

 

How do you know Howry could step into the role of closer? He's only had one season (1999) in which he recorded more than 10 saves. Sure he's had a bunch of holds, but LaTroy Hawkins did as well and we know how that turned out. I agree with you that it wouldn't be a big deal to trade Dempster and that we could find somebody else to fill in, but I just don't want to ruin another perfectly good set up man. Who knows, I could be wrong and Howry could step in and be lights out, but for this year at least, why not try somebody else out as closer, maybe somebody from the minors if we trade Dempster?

[goonys evil twin]

not a bad idea if there is someone around to replace him. alot depends on if his current struggles are due to lack of use or loss of stuff. i would prefer keeping dempster & trading williamson, novoa, walker, pierre, jones & howry if possible myself. there are a few guys in the minors like wuertz, atlee & rapada who can take over in the pen to go along with eyre, ohman & dempster.

 

Who cares if there is somebody to replace him? You don't need a closer to win 70 games. At the rate he's going, you might have to replace him anyway by next season.

 

Besides, Howry is having a much better year and could easily step into the role Howry is more affordable and has better peripherals. I'd rather keep him and deal Dempster, whose status as a "proven" closer might bring back more value in trade.

 

How do you know Howry could step into the role of closer? He's only had one season (1999) in which he recorded more than 10 saves. Sure he's had a bunch of holds, but LaTroy Hawkins did as well and we know how that turned out. I agree with you that it wouldn't be a big deal to trade Dempster and that we could find somebody else to fill in, but I just don't want to ruin another perfectly good set up man. Who knows, I could be wrong and Howry could step in and be lights out, but for this year at least, why not try somebody else out as closer, maybe somebody from the minors if we trade Dempster?

 

I don't really care who they put in as closer. It's an overrated position. I'd rather keep my best relievers for most important times, which are not to start innings with the bases empty against the bottom feeders. But Hawkins showed himself to be a head case before he imploded as closer. And his peripherals haven't been as good ever since. My guess is Latroy just fit the bill of the non elite reliever who is inconsistent and has a short shelf life.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think Marmol has the stuff and make-up to be an excellent closer.

[Cubzfan64]

Agree wholeheartedly.

 

Hendry is not one to sell high and he will never do this. :cry:

 

We need a new gm.

 

It isn't just Hendry - it seems like it's generally been an organizational thing for the Cubs to buy high and sell low - it probably has alot to do with why they haven't put together any semblence of a contender year in and year out.

 

I was all for trading Dempster already a few weeks ago - he doesn't have all that much value, but with pitching seemingly really thin all around the majors this year, I'd do it in a heartbeat if it improves the team for next year and/or the years beyond.

 

My biggest question now though is... does anyone trust the organization to make a GOOD deal if they decide to shop Dempster? I hate to say it, but I don't :(

[mg420]

not a bad idea if there is someone around to replace him. alot depends on if his current struggles are due to lack of use or loss of stuff. i would prefer keeping dempster & trading williamson, novoa, walker, pierre, jones & howry if possible myself. there are a few guys in the minors like wuertz, atlee & rapada who can take over in the pen to go along with eyre, ohman & dempster.

 

Who cares if there is somebody to replace him? You don't need a closer to win 70 games. At the rate he's going, you might have to replace him anyway by next season.

 

Besides, Howry is having a much better year and could easily step into the role Howry is more affordable and has better peripherals. I'd rather keep him and deal Dempster, whose status as a "proven" closer might bring back more value in trade.

 

How do you know Howry could step into the role of closer? He's only had one season (1999) in which he recorded more than 10 saves. Sure he's had a bunch of holds, but LaTroy Hawkins did as well and we know how that turned out. I agree with you that it wouldn't be a big deal to trade Dempster and that we could find somebody else to fill in, but I just don't want to ruin another perfectly good set up man. Who knows, I could be wrong and Howry could step in and be lights out, but for this year at least, why not try somebody else out as closer, maybe somebody from the minors if we trade Dempster?

 

I don't really care who they put in as closer. It's an overrated position. I'd rather keep my best relievers for most important times, which are not to start innings with the bases empty against the bottom feeders. But Hawkins showed himself to be a head case before he imploded as closer. And his peripherals haven't been as good ever since. My guess is Latroy just fit the bill of the non elite reliever who is inconsistent and has a short shelf life.

 

i beg to differ. name a team that has been successful without a dominate closer. i cant think of one. most baseball peoplei have heard including steve stone put having a dominate closer right after good starting pitching on the mut have list for a championship team.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Define "dominate"(sic).