Ozzie fires back on Rich Hill

[Danny82]

wow, people are rough on hill today. you'd think he lost all 25 games this year.

 

I'd settle for seeing him win one.

 

here's a fun fact...how many runs have the cubs scored in hill's four losses?

 

1 (that's combined)

 

pretty sure it wouldn't matter much if hill had an era of 8 or 1...the offense is the problem, not rich hill.

Why does there have to be only one problem.

 

Hill has yet to show he belongs in the majors and is looking more and more like a AAAA player with every start. He still can't figure out how to throw strikes at the major league level. I don't care what he has done at AAA, it definitely isn't transferring to the big leagues.

[Danny82]

I'm going to have to agree with Guillen on this one because he hit it right on the head. Until Rich Hill does ANYTHING in the majors, he's not the right person to talk. Obviously Guillen didn't say it in the nicest of ways, but that isn't the point. Rich Hill is still a rookie. If he was a veteran, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. But the guy hasn't even won a game at the major league level yet. I like the enthusiasm out of Hill and I hope he does well in the majors - hopefully for the Cubs - but that doesn't change the fact that he should have kept his mouth shut.

 

So he shouldn't be allowed to comment(read: Answer a pointed question) on the situation, which happened while he was pitching and he was about 10-20 feet away from?

He shouldn't be allowed to do anything other than give a PC answer.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I know we're beating a herd of dead horses into the ground at this point, but this is the most simple way I can put this...

 

Should Hill be able to say what he said? Of course. But in the world of the MLB, how the pecking order and social environment has existed for over a century, did he do something stupid and get exactly what he deserved, IN AND ONLY IN THE CONTEXT OF THE WORLD OF THE MLB?

 

Yes.

 

I don't give a darn tootin' about the "social environment" or the "pecking order", if Hill wanted to make a comment on the play, he was entitle to his opinion, because he was playing at the time of the play. I don't believe a guy like Nefti Perez would have more say in situation like the "Barrett/AJP", a guy who is on the bench, then a guy like Hill who was ACTUALLY playing at the time of the incident. Sorry, YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A VET, that have an opinion about a play, and I am refresh that a "young player" has the balls to call out a veteran.

[Sammy Sofa]

Neifi probably would have been slapped down as well. The biggest key is whether you suck or not. Hill just added to it by being young AND crappy.

 

If you talk the talk, you need something to back it up. In the world of pro sports, that's how it goes. All the hand-wringing and "play nice" sentiments in the world aren't going to amount to a Hill of beans.

[srbin84]

I know we're beating a herd of dead horses into the ground at this point, but this is the most simple way I can put this...

 

Should Hill be able to say what he said? Of course. But in the world of the MLB, how the pecking order and social environment has existed for over a century, did he do something stupid and get exactly what he deserved, IN AND ONLY IN THE CONTEXT OF THE WORLD OF THE MLB?

 

Yes.

 

That's 100% correct, but I'm taking it a step further based on everything Hill has said and done since he came up. It's like a cook showing up for his first day at work and saying, "Wait till you all see me work, I'm [deleted] Chef Boyardee" Then everybody who eats the food you made vomits uncontrollably until they die of dehydration. Then after that happens, you slam an experienced cook for cooking a steak on both sides instead of just throwing it on for awhile and then taking it off without even flipping it. That's how Hill's career has went so far.

[Sammy Sofa]

Now I'm wondering if there really was a Chef Boyardee...

 

Probably would be a better pitcher than Rich "Beef-A-Roni arm" Hill.

[Jon]

I know we're beating a herd of dead horses into the ground at this point, but this is the most simple way I can put this...

 

Should Hill be able to say what he said? Of course. But in the world of the MLB, how the pecking order and social environment has existed for over a century, did he do something stupid and get exactly what he deserved, IN AND ONLY IN THE CONTEXT OF THE WORLD OF THE MLB?

 

Yes.

 

That's 100% correct, but I'm taking it a step further based on everything Hill has said and done since he came up. It's like a cook showing up for his first day at work and saying, "Wait till you all see me work, I'm [deleted] Chef Boyardee" Then everybody who eats the food you made vomits uncontrollably until they die of dehydration. Then after that happens, you slam an experienced cook for cooking a steak on both sides instead of just throwing it on for awhile and then taking it off without even flipping it. That's how Hill's career has went so far.

Please watch the language.

[abuck1220]

if zambrano would have made those comments, people would be dancing in the aisles with glee and making photoshop pictures of z karate chopping stuff.

[SouthSideRyan]

Hill is a headcase, and he needed it.

 

HAHAHHAAHHA

 

Defending a teammate = headcase.

 

Greg Maddux when he beaned a guy in retaliation his rookie year to stand up for a teammate = crazy headcase. Shoulda traded him for a 2B.

[Sammy Sofa]

if zambrano would have made those comments, people would be dancing in the aisles with glee and making photoshop pictures of z karate chopping stuff.

 

Because Zambrano has the stuff to back it up. How hard is this to get across? Think about the social atmosphere of a high school gym class. Now pitcure the MLB. The 2 are the same, except the latter is even worse because of the money and egos involved. Is it right? No. Is it how it is? Yes. Will it always be this way? Bet on it. Don't pitch like an old man if you want to talk trash.

[SouthSideRyan]

This is like when people say you can't criticize a GM if you've never been there before. It's absurd.

[abuck1220]

if zambrano would have made those comments, people would be dancing in the aisles with glee and making photoshop pictures of z karate chopping stuff.

 

Because Zambrano has the stuff to back it up. How hard is this to get across? Think about the social atmosphere of a high school gym class. Now pitcure the MLB. The 2 are the same, except the latter is even worse because of the money and egos involved. Is it right? No. Is it how it is? Yes. Will it always be this way? Bet on it. Don't pitch like an old man if you want to talk trash.

 

who asked you? i have a MUCH bigger post count than you, so no one cares about your opinion. sorry...it's not fair...but it's the social atmosphere.

[Sammy Sofa]

And if that had been the established atmosphere here, yeah, I'd get my butt handed to me for mouthing off.

 

Everyone acting like this is somehow personal or some awful new tradition in baseball, you realize that I'm just repeatedly saying that what happened to Hill isn't over the line based on the standards of behavior within MLB baseball. AGAIN, is it right? Of course not! Is it ever going to change? Of course not! Hill now has a history of going out of his way to say stupid things AND he's a terrible starting pitcher...he's a sitting duck! Like it or not, there are informal rules as to when you fly off at the mouth to the press if you're an MLB player. Hill broke them. He got burned for it.

[Sammy Sofa]

This is like when people say you can't criticize a GM if you've never been there before. It's absurd.

 

I agree 100%.

 

But that's not how life is in the big leagues, now, then, or ever.

[SouthSideRyan]

And once again if Guillen was some crusader of baseball's unwritten rule book he would've torn into the 170 hitting Brian Anderson for throwing punches wildly yesterday.

 

But he didn't.

 

Cause he's a tool.

[CubinNY]

And if that had been the established atmosphere here, yeah, I'd get my butt handed to me for mouthing off.

 

Everyone acting like this is somehow personal or some awful new tradition in baseball, you realize that I'm just repeatedly saying that what happened to Hill isn't over the line based on the standards of behavior within MLB baseball. AGAIN, is it right? Of course not! Is it ever going to change? Of course not! Hill now has a history of going out of his way to say stupid things AND he's a terrible starting pitcher...he's a sitting duck! Like it or not, there are informal rules as to when you fly off at the mouth to the press if you're an MLB player. Hill broke them. He got burned for it.

 

Says you. I wasn't aware until now that if one is a rookie they're not allowed to say or do anything to defend a teammate.

 

How long has this "established" practice been going on?

 

Is there some sort of level system? If you are a second year player do you get to do it once? How about if you are rookie but make the all-star team; is it ok then?

 

Please, tell me the rules so I can make an informed judgment.

[JWD]

I know we're beating a herd of dead horses into the ground at this point, but this is the most simple way I can put this...

 

Should Hill be able to say what he said? Of course. But in the world of the MLB, how the pecking order and social environment has existed for over a century, did he do something stupid and get exactly what he deserved, IN AND ONLY IN THE CONTEXT OF THE WORLD OF THE MLB?

 

Yes.

 

I don't give a darn tootin' about the "social environment" or the "pecking order", if Hill wanted to make a comment on the play, he was entitle to his opinion, because he was playing at the time of the play. I don't believe a guy like Nefti Perez would have more say in situation like the "Barrett/AJP", a guy who is on the bench, then a guy like Hill who was ACTUALLY playing at the time of the incident. Sorry, YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A VET, that have an opinion about a play, and I am refresh that a "young player" has the balls to call out a veteran.

 

A "young player" who calls out a veteran when the "young player" is wrong and the "young player"'s teammate is in the wrong makes the "young player" look stupid and makes his team look unprofessional.

[Sammy Sofa]

You don't see the difference between the brawl on the field potentially involving anyone and everyone and then going out of your way to explicitly and specifically mouth off to the press about what happened? Please show me where Anderson did that. And for that matter, please show me where Ozzie started this little mini-battle. Hill did. Edited May 21, 2006 by Sammy Sofa

[abuck1220]

give me a break w/ this crap. people are acting as though he flew off unprovoked about how aj sucks, how ozzie's a terrible manager, and how he's better than everybody. somebody asked him about what happened, and he stuck up for his teammate.

 

the way people have been talking about him the past couple days, if he had said "no comment" or "aj's play was clean," there would probably be 8 pages about how hill's a spineless coward.

[Sammy Sofa]

give me a break w/ this crap. people are acting as though he flew off unprovoked about how aj sucks, how ozzie's a terrible manager, and how he's better than everybody. somebody asked him about what happened, and he stuck up for his teammate.

 

the way people have been talking about him the past couple days, if he had said "no comment" or "aj's play was clean," there would probably be 8 pages about how hill's a spineless coward.

 

You don't think the press asked every Cubs player they could about what happened?

 

If Hill hadn't have said anything, his name wouldn't have been mentioned except in the recap.

[Sammy Sofa]

And if that had been the established atmosphere here, yeah, I'd get my butt handed to me for mouthing off.

 

Everyone acting like this is somehow personal or some awful new tradition in baseball, you realize that I'm just repeatedly saying that what happened to Hill isn't over the line based on the standards of behavior within MLB baseball. AGAIN, is it right? Of course not! Is it ever going to change? Of course not! Hill now has a history of going out of his way to say stupid things AND he's a terrible starting pitcher...he's a sitting duck! Like it or not, there are informal rules as to when you fly off at the mouth to the press if you're an MLB player. Hill broke them. He got burned for it.

 

Says you. I wasn't aware until now that if one is a rookie they're not allowed to say or do anything to defend a teammate.

 

How long has this "established" practice been going on?

 

Is there some sort of level system? If you are a second year player do you get to do it once? How about if you are rookie but make the all-star team; is it ok then?

 

Please, tell me the rules so I can make an informed judgment.

 

Like others have said, the idea of the "social pecking order" is hardly exclusive to baseball and exists pretty much anywhere people interract with each other...it's just magnified in places like MLB because of the press, the egos and the money.

 

If you're a new hire at a law firm, and you have routinely screwed up case after case...and one of the better senior partners does something dumb (not against the rules or illegal, just boneheaded), you don't think the kid wouldn't and shouldn't get his butt handed to him if he forwards an e-mail around to the entire firm and all their clients talking about how dumb HE thinks the senior partner was?

 

Yes, in a perfect world, the kid did the right thing...but this is the REAL world and people are petty imperfect and don't respond well to "new guys" doing a terrible job taking very vocal shots at an established quality worker, even if the old guy maybe made a poor choice. Yet again, do *I* think this is right? No! But I'm not going to pretend it doesn't exist! It's what happened with Hill and Ozzie, plain and simple. For better or for worse, Hill made a bad choice. If other players and even Barrett himself had been railing about this, sure, dive right in. But instead, he shoots off and NOBODY is doing the same, not even the guys involved!

Edited May 21, 2006 by Sammy Sofa

[SouthSideRyan]

You don't see the difference between the brawl on the field potentially involving anyone and everyone and then going out of your way to explicitly and specifically mouth off to the press about what happened? Please show me where Anderson did that. And for that matter, please show me where Ozzie started this little mini-battle. Hill did.

 

You see a difference between backing up your teammates in a fight and in the press?

[Sammy Sofa]

You don't see the difference between the brawl on the field potentially involving anyone and everyone and then going out of your way to explicitly and specifically mouth off to the press about what happened? Please show me where Anderson did that. And for that matter, please show me where Ozzie started this little mini-battle. Hill did.

 

You see a difference between backing up your teammates in a fight and in the press?

 

Unfortunately, yes. I'll quote what I edited in my post above...

 

For better or for worse, Hill made a bad choice. If other players and even Barrett himself had been railing about this, sure, then dive right in, crappy rookie or not. But instead, he shoots off and NOBODY is doing the same, not even the guys involved!

[Soul]

And if that had been the established atmosphere here, yeah, I'd get my butt handed to me for mouthing off.

 

Everyone acting like this is somehow personal or some awful new tradition in baseball, you realize that I'm just repeatedly saying that what happened to Hill isn't over the line based on the standards of behavior within MLB baseball. AGAIN, is it right? Of course not! Is it ever going to change? Of course not! Hill now has a history of going out of his way to say stupid things AND he's a terrible starting pitcher...he's a sitting duck! Like it or not, there are informal rules as to when you fly off at the mouth to the press if you're an MLB player. Hill broke them. He got burned for it.

 

Says you. I wasn't aware until now that if one is a rookie they're not allowed to say or do anything to defend a teammate.

 

How long has this "established" practice been going on?

 

Is there some sort of level system? If you are a second year player do you get to do it once? How about if you are rookie but make the all-star team; is it ok then?

 

Please, tell me the rules so I can make an informed judgment.

 

Not giving up a slam the day you do it might help.

 

Winning a single big league game also would be good.

 

Look, Hill can say whatever he wants. But he's an easy target because he sucks, and Ozzie made him look like an absolute fool.

 

I'd rather not watch my team's players make fools out of themselves, thanks.

[1908]

If you're a new hire at a law firm, and you have routinely screwed up case after case...and one of the better senior partners does something dumb (not against the rules or illegal, just boneheaded), you don't think the kid wouldn't and shouldn't get his butt handed to him if he forwards an e-mail around to the entire firm and all their clients talking about how dumb HE thinks the senior partner was?

Hill and Ozzie would need to work for the same organization for this analogy to make sense.