So How Is Nomar Doing

[Laura]

Maybe. Obviously Hendry assumed Jones would at least match the last few years production. Those numbers aren't great, but who knows for sure what 4 months of forcing bench players to start would do to the overall production. We all saw the Lenny Harris situation and others like it. Right now, def. doing the Nomar+reserves seems like it would have been the better plan; but realistically, nobody could have predicted Jones to be this bad.

 

I'm not so sure about that.

 

Seems to me yet again that many people had more realistic expectations for Jones than Hendry apparently did.

[srbin84]

Maybe. Obviously Hendry assumed Jones would at least match the last few years production. Those numbers aren't great, but who knows for sure what 4 months of forcing bench players to start would do to the overall production. We all saw the Lenny Harris situation and others like it. Right now, def. doing the Nomar+reserves seems like it would have been the better plan; but realistically, nobody could have predicted Jones to be this bad.

 

I'm not so sure about that.

 

Seems to me yet again that many people had more realistic expectations for Jones than Hendry apparently did.

 

More realistic than Hendry, yes, so did I....but .700 OPS or below...I don't know about that. Did anybody say Jones will ahve a .700 OPS this season?

[Laura]

Presumably you have the same access to past forum posts as I do. I don't know that anyone tried to predict Jones' exact OPS. My point is that your sweeping generalizations about what people here thought before you became a member here are not borne out by the evidence.

 

 

 

What they needed was a high-OBP guy who could bat in the top two lineup slots and allow Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez to bat with runners on base. Jones isn’t that player; he’s a #7 hitter, someone who doesn’t take pitches, hits into double plays and lacks substantial power. He was the wrong player for the Cubs, and that’s the heart of my ongoing criticism of the signing. Jones is an inadequate corner outfielder for any team, but a particularly bad choice for the Cubs.

 

In in familiar summary, Jones has an inadequate bat that only looks good with Hendry's "career view" sunglasses; and his defensive value is worth less to the Cubs in Wrigley (and with a high K pitching staff). Maybe we should buy the Cubs management a BP subscription for next year.

[Laura]

To be fair, though I didn't like the signing, I was hoping Jones wouldn't be as bad as he's been so far.

 

I did figure that he'd get too many at-bats vs. lefties, since that's happened in the past with Dusty & vet players.

[srbin84]

Presumably you have the same access to past forum posts as I do. I don't know that anyone tried to predict Jones' exact OPS. My point is that your sweeping generalizations about what people here thought before you became a member here are not borne out by the evidence.

 

 

 

What they needed was a high-OBP guy who could bat in the top two lineup slots and allow Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez to bat with runners on base. Jones isn’t that player; he’s a #7 hitter, someone who doesn’t take pitches, hits into double plays and lacks substantial power. He was the wrong player for the Cubs, and that’s the heart of my ongoing criticism of the signing. Jones is an inadequate corner outfielder for any team, but a particularly bad choice for the Cubs.

 

In in familiar summary, Jones has an inadequate bat that only looks good with Hendry's "career view" sunglasses; and his defensive value is worth less to the Cubs in Wrigley (and with a high K pitching staff). Maybe we should buy the Cubs management a BP subscription for next year.

 

Well, no use in arguing about it. I hated the move too. I wanted Kevin Mench, and I said it on this board many times somewhere, although at the time, it was for a platoon with Jones since there was nothing that could be done about the fact he was on the roster. Looks like I would have made a good move. Too bad Hendry is too dense to have come up with a similar idea. IIRC, Mench was there for the taking.

[abuck1220]

that guy at the convention feels pretty smart right now.

[CubfaninCA]

gmafb. garciaparra wasn't coming back as a rf or backup 1b, and if he's back, then cedeno's still in iowa and $6 million goes down the toilet cause nomar's probably hurt again by june.

 

nice hindsight tho.

[CubfaninCA]

I think there needs to be a "How's Choi doing?" "How's DuBois doing?" and "How's Bobby Hill doing?" thread. The Corey & Nomar threads could get lonely. :D

 

lol at Nomar choosing playing rf and possibly making a fool of himself over returning home to LA for $6 million to play 1b.

[Mark Priors Calves]

gmafb. garciaparra wasn't coming back as a rf or backup 1b, and if he's back, then cedeno's still in iowa and $6 million goes down the toilet cause nomar's probably hurt again by june.

 

nice hindsight tho.

 

Cedeno would plan 2B, just like the Cubs were planning to do when they sign Furcal.

[CubfaninCA]

gmafb. garciaparra wasn't coming back as a rf or backup 1b, and if he's back, then cedeno's still in iowa and $6 million goes down the toilet cause nomar's probably hurt again by june.

 

nice hindsight tho.

 

Cedeno would plan 2B, just like the Cubs were planning to do when they sign Furcal.

 

So you're suggesting that Nomar should have replaced Walker and his 1.5 million then. Good luck defending that.

[Neuby]

gmafb. garciaparra wasn't coming back as a rf or backup 1b, and if he's back, then cedeno's still in iowa and $6 million goes down the toilet cause nomar's probably hurt again by june.

 

nice hindsight tho.

 

Cedeno would plan 2B, just like the Cubs were planning to do when they sign Furcal.

 

So you're suggesting that Nomar should have replaced Walker and his 1.5 million then. Good luck defending that.

 

Having Ronny and Nomar in the same lineup with Todd's bat off the bench would have been nice.

[Mark Priors Calves]

gmafb. garciaparra wasn't coming back as a rf or backup 1b, and if he's back, then cedeno's still in iowa and $6 million goes down the toilet cause nomar's probably hurt again by june.

 

nice hindsight tho.

 

Cedeno would plan 2B, just like the Cubs were planning to do when they sign Furcal.

 

So you're suggesting that Nomar should have replaced Walker and his 1.5 million then. Good luck defending that.

I'm not suggesting anything, so I'm not defending anything. I'm telling you what the Cubs probably would have done if they chose to re-sign Nomar.

[RynoRules]

Nomar's hitting .306/.386/.571. Would look awfully good in RF. Or 1B with Lee out. But no, the Cubs gave him and his hometown discount the hard shoulder.

 

Hindsight is 20-20. Most people didn't want to risk $5MM-$6MM on such an injury-prone player. No one doubts Nomar's ability when healthy.

 

It is ironic though that the players the Cubs (wisely, IMO) don't take a chance on because of injury risk stay healthy and are productive (Alou, Nomar), while the guys we decide to keep despite injury risk are hurt yet again (Wood, Prior).

 

And then we spent that Nomar money on Jones and Pierre, egads.....

 

Well spoken.

[thedaymen]

To be fair, though I didn't like the signing, I was hoping Jones wouldn't be as bad as he's been so far.

 

 

Don't knock yourself for hoping he wouldn't be this bad. I hoped he would repeat Dawson in 1987. But I thought he'd be pretty bad.

[BigbadB]

gmafb. garciaparra wasn't coming back as a rf or backup 1b, and if he's back, then cedeno's still in iowa and $6 million goes down the toilet cause nomar's probably hurt again by june.

 

nice hindsight tho.

 

Cedeno would plan 2B, just like the Cubs were planning to do when they sign Furcal.

 

So you're suggesting that Nomar should have replaced Walker and his 1.5 million then. Good luck defending that.

 

Nomar was insurance. If he's healthy, we have a deeper bench. If he's hurt, you have Walker and Cedeno for depth. Nomar was offering to come back at a discount price and he felt he owed it to the fans of Chicago to play a full season. He said he was even open to a position change.

 

If he was so unwilling to play a different position, why is it exactly that he hasn't logged a single inning at SS for the Dodgers this year? Nomar signed with the Dodgers AFTER Furcal and while Izturis was still on the roster. That makes Nomar at least 3rd on the depth chart at SS. So, you really can't sit there and say that Nomar wasn't willing to do it when I saw the quote that said he was willing to play different positions.

 

Nomar is a better player than Jacque Jones. Nomar would have been a 1 year signing. Nomar provided protection to the offense in case they couldn't get a Tejada or a Furcal or any other player Hendry targeted.

 

You can play the high and mighty "you are correct and everyone else is wrong" game if you want, but no one here is going to fall for it.

 

I can respect that someone may not have wanted Nomar back because of past injuries, but to say Nomar wouldn't come back because he wouldn't have changed positions or that the Cubs shouldn't have brought him back because we had Walker and Cedeno is ridiculous.

 

Because this team sells low and buys high, we have the pathetic offense they have right now. Nomar was a perfect example. They let him walk in a sell low move. They had every opportunity to buy low in that situation and blew it. Sure, Nomar spent time on the DL already this year, but so has Jacque Jones. Oh, and Jacque Jones has a 3 year deal. I like bringing that up because it's pretty important in the big picture.

[hardcorecubfan]

Nomar at 5 million for one year in RF was, is and always will be a better option that Jacque Jones for 3 years at $15 million.

 

Even a injured Nomar is better, at least Mia would be a nice addition to the stands

[CubfaninCA]

gmafb. garciaparra wasn't coming back as a rf or backup 1b, and if he's back, then cedeno's still in iowa and $6 million goes down the toilet cause nomar's probably hurt again by june.

 

nice hindsight tho.

 

Cedeno would plan 2B, just like the Cubs were planning to do when they sign Furcal.

 

So you're suggesting that Nomar should have replaced Walker and his 1.5 million then. Good luck defending that.

 

Nomar was insurance. If he's healthy, we have a deeper bench. If he's hurt, you have Walker and Cedeno for depth. Nomar was offering to come back at a discount price and he felt he owed it to the fans of Chicago to play a full season. He said he was even open to a position change.

 

If he was so unwilling to play a different position, why is it exactly that he hasn't logged a single inning at SS for the Dodgers this year? Nomar signed with the Dodgers AFTER Furcal and while Izturis was still on the roster. That makes Nomar at least 3rd on the depth chart at SS. So, you really can't sit there and say that Nomar wasn't willing to do it when I saw the quote that said he was willing to play different positions.

 

Nomar is a better player than Jacque Jones. Nomar would have been a 1 year signing. Nomar provided protection to the offense in case they couldn't get a Tejada or a Furcal or any other player Hendry targeted.

 

You can play the high and mighty "you are correct and everyone else is wrong" game if you want, but no one here is going to fall for it.

 

I can respect that someone may not have wanted Nomar back because of past injuries, but to say Nomar wouldn't come back because he wouldn't have changed positions or that the Cubs shouldn't have brought him back because we had Walker and Cedeno is ridiculous.

 

Because this team sells low and buys high, we have the pathetic offense they have right now. Nomar was a perfect example. They let him walk in a sell low move. They had every opportunity to buy low in that situation and blew it. Sure, Nomar spent time on the DL already this year, but so has Jacque Jones. Oh, and Jacque Jones has a 3 year deal. I like bringing that up because it's pretty important in the big picture.

 

big difference between 1b & rf tho & i bet he much preferred staying in the infield.

[BigbadB]

Yeah, but when Izturis comes off the DL, I'm sure the Dodgers would love to move Kent to 1b, Izturis to 2nd and then stick Nomar in LF or RF.

 

I don't think Nomar will give the Dodgers any guff if they end up doing that.

 

As far as Nomar returning to the Cubs, I saw lots of possibilities:

 

#1. Cedeno didn't pan out as a major leaguer. Enter Nomar to play SS.

#2. Aramis had another one of his hamstring flare ups. Enter Nomar at 3b.

#3. The Cubs couldn't find someone to play RF. Enter Nomar.

 

Now that Derrek Lee is hurt (which I admit I didn't see happening), enter Nomar at 1b.

 

Nomar was probably only going to cost the Cubs 5m. Who would I rather have? Nomar and the potential he could be hurt again or a healthy Jacque Jones? I'll take Nomar. If nothing else, the combo of Cedeno, Walker and Nomar gave the team respectable offense and depth in the middle infield.

[badger1679666666]

2/4 with 2 runs scored and 3 RBI. Average up to .310, 7 BB's and 4K's on the year.

 

Jones is much better so far.