Angel Pagan = Carlos Beltran?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Funny cuz I can actually use a real Cobb quote as a reply "In my day, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch"

 

That's the way it was, and we liked it.

http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/images/dress-up/masks/face-masks/human/old/old-man-front-face.jpg

[biittner77]

Angel Pagan = Willie Mays

 

No, no, no. Angel Pagan = Ty Cobb.

 

No, Barry Bonds = Ty Cobb

 

Angel Pagan= Dwaine Bacon with a glove

[SouthSideRyan]

Angel Pagan = Willie Mays

 

No, no, no. Angel Pagan = Ty Cobb.

 

No, Barry Bonds = Ty Cobb

 

Angel Pagan= Dwaine Bacon with a glove

 

And without the ability to get on base.

[OleMissCub]

 

No, Barry Bonds = Ty Cobb

 

 

Indeed, both are racist douche-bags. At least Cobb didn't cheat.

[WrigleyinEngland]

Has anyone considered the fact that if Pagan has some success early he might be cheap trade bait to teams such as Florida, Kansas , Detroit?. You just never know how some organisations view prospects, who would of thought Bobby Hill would turn in to Aramis Ramirez?? I didn't see us getting a box of nachos for Welly but we got 2 'players'. I also think that Pagans speed will at least get him some success in the majors i don't believe restovich has anywhere near the plate discipline to last on the roster. What about if the pirates OF doesn't work out and they like the look of Pagan and it could get us Craig Wilson to Share time with JJ?? would that not be valuable on this team. On a side note this spring has certainly raised some of our prospects back from the depths , suddenly Hendry may have some chips to play with?. On the other hand how does this look for '07?

 

Z

Prior

Zito

Marshall

Guz/ Hill.

[Outshined_One]

Meh, I figure he could be a decent 25th man off the bench.

[Wheelimus]

Do I think that there is a chance that Angel Pagan is going to somehow turn into Carlos Beltran? Nope.

 

Do I think that there is a c hance that he's better than his minor league numbers would indicate and could potentially turn into a useful player on the MLB team? You betcha.

 

He wouldn't be the first (and he wouldn't be the last) player to benefit from a change of scenery. I mean, is it impossible that maybe he was hurt by the Mets Patterson'ing him into something he wasn't? Maybe we've finally learnt that mistake and maybe he has a better head on his shoulders than Corey and can change things.

 

There's a fine line between being a realist and being a pessimist and some seem close to crossing it here. It would be a dream come true if he blossoms into an adequate replacement for Pierre and makes Slappy trade-bait at midseason.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Patterson'ing him

 

Ahh, Corey's legacy.

[goonys evil twin]

There's a fine line between being a realist and being a pessimist and some seem close to crossing it here. It would be a dream come true if he blossoms into an adequate replacement for Pierre and makes Slappy trade-bait at midseason.

 

You say it right there, it would be a dream. It's not borderline pessimism to question the insane comparisons to Beltran and think of the guy as a 5th OF.

[Wheelimus]

Seems only the Mets scouts have compared him to Beltran but that keeps getting repeated. I'd more hope he's a late blooming Juan Pierre to keep us from paying $13 million for him next season. Odds in his favor? Not even close, but I can hope.

 

I think I won't tell him he can't, and give him the chance to sink or swim. Shouldn't take too long on the roster to find out if he's a surging talent, an adequate 5th outfielder/25th man, or trash.

[David]

By "bust," I'm talking about the comparison of Pagan with Scott McClain...

 

I can also think of scenarios where Pagan is our starting CF (it's not too far fetched). His role on the 2006 Cubs is a backup. I don't see why we can't also think about his potential future role on this team. Considering CF is not locked up for the future (and the alternative is another Minor League guy who still has holes in his game), there maybe room for Pagan as a starter next year. We're just thinking about possibilities...

 

That is not a possibility, it's a disastrous option. Pagan could start for the team. It would suck and the team would suffer because of it, but he could do it. Ryan Theriot could start at third base if Aramis walks or is injured. Neifi could start at SS. All these things could happen, and they would all suck if they did. If his future role on this team is starter it most likely means Pie is a bust and Hendry fails to field a good OF, again.

 

All of that is yet to be seen. My point is it's a realistic possibility.

 

A terrifying, worst-case scenario possibility that would more than justify firing Jim Hendry/Dusty on the spot (as if it weren't justified already).

[srbin84]

In 2004, we had Jason Dubois and in 2003, we had Scott McClain. Both tore it up in spring training and were competing for a spot on the team. To those who have voiced against high predictions for Pagan based on his spring stats, what did you guys think of those two guys at the time.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

In 2004, we had Jason Dubois and in 2003, we had Scott McClain. Both tore it up in spring training and were competing for a spot on the team. To those who have voiced against high predictions for Pagan based on his spring stats, what did you guys think of those two guys at the time.

 

I was not high on McClain; however, I was very high on Dubois. My opinions on Dubois had little to do with his spring performance and more to do with the fact that he had hit at every level of the minors, including being MVP of the AFL.

[srbin84]

In 2004, we had Jason Dubois and in 2003, we had Scott McClain. Both tore it up in spring training and were competing for a spot on the team. To those who have voiced against high predictions for Pagan based on his spring stats, what did you guys think of those two guys at the time.

 

I was not high on McClain; however, I was very high on Dubois. My opinions on Dubois had little to do with his spring performance and more to do with the fact that he had hit at every level of the minors, including being MVP of the AFL.

 

Doesn't that suggest that we can't just use minor league numbers to determine whether a rookie should make the team or not and how successful they will be if they make it? McClain and Dubois have both had very good minor league careers but have done nothing in the majors.

 

Here are the last AAA season stats of three players before going to MLB:

 

Player A: 438 AB .279/.347/.772 9 HR 61 RBI 35 SB

 

Player B: 516 AB .271/.333/.738 8 HR 40 RBI 27 SB

 

Player C: 462 AB .292/.373/.797 13 HR 55 RBI 39 SB

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

In 2004, we had Jason Dubois and in 2003, we had Scott McClain. Both tore it up in spring training and were competing for a spot on the team. To those who have voiced against high predictions for Pagan based on his spring stats, what did you guys think of those two guys at the time.

 

I was not high on McClain; however, I was very high on Dubois. My opinions on Dubois had little to do with his spring performance and more to do with the fact that he had hit at every level of the minors, including being MVP of the AFL.

 

Doesn't that suggest that we can't just use minor league numbers to determine whether a rookie should make the team or not and how successful they will be if they make it? McClain and Dubois have both had very good minor league careers but have done nothing in the majors.

 

Here are the last AAA season stats of three players before going to MLB:

 

Player A: 438 AB .279/.347/.772 9 HR 61 RBI 35 SB

 

Player B: 516 AB .271/.333/.738 8 HR 40 RBI 27 SB

 

Player C: 462 AB .292/.373/.797 13 HR 55 RBI 39 SB

 

Actually, those are more anomalies. Comprehensive studies show that minor league numbers are the best way to guage what a player will do in the pros, especially for hitters. They aren't, however, infallible. And if you focus on the outliers, you'll always find exceptions.

[srbin84]

In 2004, we had Jason Dubois and in 2003, we had Scott McClain. Both tore it up in spring training and were competing for a spot on the team. To those who have voiced against high predictions for Pagan based on his spring stats, what did you guys think of those two guys at the time.

 

I was not high on McClain; however, I was very high on Dubois. My opinions on Dubois had little to do with his spring performance and more to do with the fact that he had hit at every level of the minors, including being MVP of the AFL.

 

Doesn't that suggest that we can't just use minor league numbers to determine whether a rookie should make the team or not and how successful they will be if they make it? McClain and Dubois have both had very good minor league careers but have done nothing in the majors.

 

Here are the last AAA season stats of three players before going to MLB:

 

Player A: 438 AB .279/.347/.772 9 HR 61 RBI 35 SB

 

Player B: 516 AB .271/.333/.738 8 HR 40 RBI 27 SB

 

Player C: 462 AB .292/.373/.797 13 HR 55 RBI 39 SB

 

Actually, those are more anomalies. Comprehensive studies show that minor league numbers are the best way to guage what a player will do in the pros, especially for hitters. They aren't, however, infallible. And if you focus on the outliers, you'll always find exceptions.

 

Then people shouldn't make statements as if they are no anomalies:

 

By "bust," I'm talking about the comparison of Pagan with Scott McClain...

 

I can also think of scenarios where Pagan is our starting CF (it's not too far fetched). His role on the 2006 Cubs is a backup. I don't see why we can't also think about his potential future role on this team. Considering CF is not locked up for the future (and the alternative is another Minor League guy who still has holes in his game), there maybe room for Pagan as a starter next year. We're just thinking about possibilities...

 

That is not a possibility, it's a disastrous option. Pagan could start for the team. It would suck and the team would suffer because of it, but he could do it. Ryan Theriot could start at third base if Aramis walks or is injured. Neifi could start at SS. All these things could happen, and they would all suck if they did. If his future role on this team is starter it most likely means Pie is a bust and Hendry fails to field a good OF, again.

[ThePenguin11]

Seriously.

 

Angel Pagan.

 

7 pages of trying to justify if this marginal/mediocre prospect could be Carlos Beltran - or anything even close to it. The original statement should have been:

 

"Angel Pagan = Poor man's Carlos Beltran?"

 

Of course my answer would have still been 'no', but I think that might be less of a stretch. Let's not forget that Beltran was an MVP candidate before he stumbled last year.

[CubbieSouthpaw]

what kind of #'s was dlee putting up at 24? tori hunter was 27 when he broke into the bigs with the twins. pagan seems to have all the tools to be a fine ML outfielder. some guys just put it together later than others. he doesnt have to be as good as beltran was to be a starter on the cubs. just as some guys who tear it up in the minors never pan out in the bigs, some guys dont perform well in the minors but have success in the majors.

 

Let the dream die, Pagen is not good.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/angel-pagan.shtml

 

Edit:

 

At age 24 D-Lee put up this line for the FLORIDA MARLINS

 

.281 .368 .507 28 HRs and 70 RBI

 

I'm not gonna disagree with you, but what if Pagan has finally put it together? All the better for the Cubs, and if he didn't then maybe he'll turn out to be that good, young, cheap bench player thats needed every year. Either way Cubs win.

[badger1679666666]

It's almost as if certain nameless people in here actively WANT Pagan to be a crappy player.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Pagan will be ROY and Cy Young in 2006. Mark my words.

[CUBZ99]

It's almost as if certain nameless people in here actively WANT Pagan to be a crappy player.

 

Now that Grissom and Macias are gone, we need somebody to complain about beside Rusch and Neifi.

[goonys evil twin]

It's almost as if certain nameless people in here actively WANT Pagan to be a crappy player.

 

Why nameless? I want to find these Cubs haters and smoke 'em out.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

It's almost as if certain nameless people in here actively WANT Pagan to be a crappy player.

 

Why nameless? I want to find these Cubs haters and smoke 'em out.

 

Just smoke 'em out? Let's kill them and find creative ways of desecrating their corpses.

[TenzilKem]

It's almost as if certain nameless people in here actively WANT Pagan to be a crappy player.

 

I think there are quite a few fans who enjoy ragging on who they perceive to be the worst player on the team--in the past it's been Macias, Bako, Harris, Coomer, etc. There seems to be some cathartic release gained by ragging on mediocre players.* ** ***

 

*The above mentioned players were, indeed, mediocre.

 

**I am not guiltless in this respect.

 

***Regardless, Pagan is a cheap, toolsy player who has had a very nice ST and deserves a shot to go north with the big club and show what he can do, even though there's almost no chance he'll put up numbers comparable to Carlos Beltran.

[Shawon12]

It's almost as if certain nameless people in here actively WANT Pagan to be a crappy player.

 

I think there are quite a few fans who enjoy ragging on who they perceive to be the worst player on the team--in the past it's been Macias, Bako, Harris, Coomer, etc. There seems to be some cathartic release gained by ragging on mediocre players.* ** ***

 

*The above mentioned players were, indeed, mediocre.

 

**I am not guiltless in this respect.

 

***Regardless, Pagan is a cheap, toolsy player who has had a very nice ST and deserves a shot to go north with the big club and show what he can do, even though there's almost no chance he'll put up numbers comparable to Carlos Beltran.

Amen. I'm always surprised how much people focus on the 24th and 25th players rather than the underachieving pitching staff.