early start on the excuses for grissom...

[TB_11]

Grissom is done, he's been done for at least two seasons.

 

keeping him on the roster only holds a someone else down.

 

I would have to agree. Sad thing is, if he comes out hot in April we'll probably have to live with him the whole season no matter how badly he tanks.

 

A Neifi redux.

[sethuel1]

 

Grissom's got the job because there's nobody else to give it to.

 

 

BRANDON SING (1) OFF JULIO MATEO IN THE 3RD

BRANDON SING (2) OFF DAVE BURBA IN THE 4TH

 

Sadly, this will not change Dusty's mind about anything. Grissom is on the team, barring one of his legs being cut off.

Ok, who's gonna bite the bullet and cut one of his legs off, then?

[CubfaninCA]

Veteran outfielder Marquis Grissom doesn't have to put up big numbers to make the team, even though he is a non-roster invitee.

 

"He doesn't have to have a great spring," Baker said. "Spring training is for the young, especially early because they're in shape in no time and, No. 2, most young guys hit fastballs. Pitchers aren't ready to throw good breaking balls. It's hard to throw them here in Arizona because of the air."

 

Baker said he would evaluate Grissom by his health, speed and bat speed.

 

"You want to see progress as spring goes on," Baker said. "I have a pretty good idea of what he can do. I'm looking for just what he has left."

 

he honestly can't be surprised when people say he doesn't like young players. his quote about how ST is for the young guys doesn't make any sense at all.

 

So he doesn't need to have a great spring to make the team... Molehill meet mountain.

 

It's good to see someone will replace Macias as whoopin boy.

[CUBZ99]

Veteran outfielder Marquis Grissom doesn't have to put up big numbers to make the team, even though he is a non-roster invitee.

 

"He doesn't have to have a great spring," Baker said. "Spring training is for the young, especially early because they're in shape in no time and, No. 2, most young guys hit fastballs. Pitchers aren't ready to throw good breaking balls. It's hard to throw them here in Arizona because of the air."

 

Baker said he would evaluate Grissom by his health, speed and bat speed.

 

"You want to see progress as spring goes on," Baker said. "I have a pretty good idea of what he can do. I'm looking for just what he has left."

 

he honestly can't be surprised when people say he doesn't like young players. his quote about how ST is for the young guys doesn't make any sense at all.

 

So he doesn't need to have a great spring to make the team... Molehill meet mountain.

 

It's good to see someone will replace Macias as whoopin boy.

 

Grissom is great compared to Macias. He had one horrible year last year due to injury. Lets see if he is healthy and back to form before we proclaim him as a horrible player etc.

 

I don't see how it would be so bad to have a player that would hit .270 with .325 OBP on the bench.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Fair enough. The ghost of Lenny Harris lingers on in my mind too. It just seems to me that this comment was anything but that ringing endorsement usually given to ancient vets like Grissom.

 

I'm not claiming it is a ringing endorsement. I just feel it's an indication that Grissom pretty much has the job unless a leg falls off.

 

Grissom's got the job because there's nobody else to give it to.

 

The young guys need to play in DM or AA because there's no way in the world they'll play for Dusty in Chicago.

 

But then again, in the Cubs organization, young players have more value to the WT, IOWA, Daytona affiliates then they COULD possibly have with the Cubs. Sooner or later, the Cubs are going to have to put their faith into young players (like they are doing with Murton and Cedeno). If Bobby Bonilla doesn't get hurt, or the Marlins going to cheap way in 2003, the world may not have heard about Albert Pujols or Miguel Cabrera for awhile longer.

[biittner77]

Did anyone catch the in game interview with Dusty Baker during Sunday's telecast? He sounded pretty impressed by Sing and "The Riot".

 

I almost get the impression that Baker wouldn't mind having Pagan around. If he could play CF he'd be a decent bench player. He could also teach Pierre how to get a good jump when trying to steal a base.

 

Anyway, the WBC, by taking away Barrett, Blanco and Lee, is a great opportunity for Sing and the catchers to show what they can do.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Did anyone catch the in game interview with Dusty Baker during Sunday's telecast? He sounded pretty impressed by Sing and "The Riot".

 

I almost get the impression that Baker wouldn't mind having Pagan around. If he could play CF he'd be a decent bench player. He could also teach Pierre how to get a good jump when trying to steal a base.

 

Anyway, the WBC, by taking away Barrett, Blanco and Lee, is a great opportunity for Sing and the catchers to show what they can do.

 

Pierre doesn't know how to get a good jump when stealing a base?

[jjgman21]

Ok, who's gonna bite the bullet and cut one of his legs off, then?

 

I don't think I am the only one who had a part of me hoping Grissom would try to stretch yesterday's gapper into a triple and tweak the hammy in the process. oh the evils envoked due to the presence of Dusty Baker.

 

anyone else else get the feeling that Hendry and Baker made a deal? Baker agreed to start Cedeno and Murton as long as Hendry agreed to fill out the roster with Baker's "type of guys."

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

While I doubt there's a place for him, Pagan would be great to have as a pinch runner when down one run in the eighth or ninth innings.

[goonys evil twin]

While I doubt there's a place for him, Pagan would be great to have as a pinch runner when down one run in the eighth or ninth innings.

 

I'd like to see them emphasize a bench where guys can do something really well, as opposed to a bench that does a lot of things rather poorly.

 

There definitely is room for a guy like Pagan on a bench, but you have to build the rest of your bench to fit him in, and you have to go with 6 guys.

 

Blanco

Hairston

Perez

Sing/Restovich

Mabry

Pagan

 

You get a RH slugger to help take out Jones whenever possible, plus a guy who runs really well if/when you have a pinch run situation.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

While I doubt there's a place for him, Pagan would be great to have as a pinch runner when down one run in the eighth or ninth innings.

 

I'd like to see them emphasize a bench where guys can do something really well, as opposed to a bench that does a lot of things rather poorly.

 

There definitely is room for a guy like Pagan on a bench, but you have to build the rest of your bench to fit him in, and you have to go with 6 guys.

 

Blanco

Hairston

Perez

Sing/Restovich

Mabry

Pagan

 

You get a RH slugger to help take out Jones whenever possible, plus a guy who runs really well if/when you have a pinch run situation.

 

I'm all for the six-man bench. I'd love to see Mabry replaced with Theriot, though. I know that isn't going to happen.

[sonofsamiam]

While I generally agree with what's being said here, I think people are vastly underrating Grissom's career. He was a very good player at his peak, and had value as recently as '02-'04. This is not Hollandsworth or Goodwin we're talking about here.

 

I certainly don't want him displacing Murton, but if you're gonna have a "crafty vet" (and we all know Dusty has a pathological need for them), better someone that's actually done something at a high level before, who apparently doesn't have the expectation of seeing a lot of action.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

While I generally agree with what's being said here, I think people are vastly underrating Grissom's career. He was a very good player at his peak, and had value as recently as '02-'04. This is not Hollandsworth or Goodwin we're talking about here.

 

I certainly don't want him displacing Murton, but if you're gonna have a "crafty vet" (and we all know Dusty has a pathological need for them), better someone that's actually done something at a high level before, who apparently doesn't have the expectation of seeing a lot of action.

 

.272/.318/.415, 92 OPS+

 

.275/.332/.440, 98 OPS+

 

Guess which one is Grissom.

[goonys evil twin]

While I generally agree with what's being said here, I think people are vastly underrating Grissom's career. He was a very good player at his peak, and had value as recently as '02-'04. This is not Hollandsworth or Goodwin we're talking about here.

 

Grissom was never a very good player. He had a reasonably successful career. He had a couple good years, but he was never very good. His OPS+ was only above average 5 times in his career.

 

But most importantly, while the guy was a servicable player in his day, his day is past. He's 39. He was god awful last season. He can't be counted on for anything this year.

[jjgman21]

while I don't want Grissom as the fifth outfielder, I don't really think it's fair to evaluate him against his career because the Cubs won't ask him to be the player he has been throughout his career. hopefully the Cubs will ask him to platoon in right against lefties and spot start in the other two outfield positions. he does play a decent outfield, and what he did against lefties from 2002-2004 was undeniably spectacular.

 

I know its a big couple of ifs, but if he's used properly and if he repeats those numbers, the Cubs might actually get an 850 ops out of right and be pretty well set offensively.

 

the lineup could be something like this (OBP/OPS)

 

"prototypical leadoff hitter" (Pierre)

.350/.800 (Walker...hopefully)

.375/.950 (Lee)

.375/.950 (Aram)

.340/.850 (right field platoon)

.360/.825 (Murton)

.335/.825 (Barrett)

Cedeno

Pitcher

 

I can live with that.

[CoolHandLuke]

While I doubt there's a place for him, Pagan would be great to have as a pinch runner when down one run in the eighth or ninth innings.

 

I'd like to see them emphasize a bench where guys can do something really well, as opposed to a bench that does a lot of things rather poorly.

 

There definitely is room for a guy like Pagan on a bench, but you have to build the rest of your bench to fit him in, and you have to go with 6 guys.

 

Blanco

Hairston

Perez

Sing/Restovich

Mabry

Pagan

 

You get a RH slugger to help take out Jones whenever possible, plus a guy who runs really well if/when you have a pinch run situation.

 

I'm all for the six-man bench. I'd love to see Mabry replaced with Theriot, though. I know that isn't going to happen.

 

If only he could play a serviceable 3rd I would have really liked to see Sing get a shot to replace Mabry.

[goonys evil twin]

hopefully the Cubs will ask him to platoon in right against lefties and spot start in the other two outfield positions.

 

No, hopefully somebody else will get that job.

[biittner77]

Did anyone catch the in game interview with Dusty Baker during Sunday's telecast? He sounded pretty impressed by Sing and "The Riot".

 

I almost get the impression that Baker wouldn't mind having Pagan around. If he could play CF he'd be a decent bench player. He could also teach Pierre how to get a good jump when trying to steal a base.

 

Anyway, the WBC, by taking away Barrett, Blanco and Lee, is a great opportunity for Sing and the catchers to show what they can do.

 

Pierre doesn't know how to get a good jump when stealing a base?

 

As often as he gets thrown out, I'd say yes, he could use some help.

[jjgman21]

hopefully the Cubs will ask him to platoon in right against lefties and spot start in the other two outfield positions.

 

No, hopefully somebody else will get that job.

 

is this really necessary when the full quote begins with "while I don't want Grissom as the fifth outfielder?"

 

"In the even he makes the team, which I do not want, hopefully the Cubs will ask him to platoon in right against lefties and spot start in the other two outfield positions, and not take significant amount of playing time away from Murton."

 

satisfied?

[sonofsamiam]

While I generally agree with what's being said here, I think people are vastly underrating Grissom's career. He was a very good player at his peak, and had value as recently as '02-'04. This is not Hollandsworth or Goodwin we're talking about here.

 

Grissom was never a very good player. He had a reasonably successful career. He had a couple good years, but he was never very good. His OPS+ was only above average 5 times in his career.

 

But most importantly, while the guy was a servicable player in his day, his day is past. He's 39. He was god awful last season. He can't be counted on for anything this year.

 

In 2003, Grissom had 22 Win Shares, and 16 in '04. In '02 (albeit not a full season), he had an OPS+ of 124. He's always had value in the field and on the bases and, while those things aren't as valuable as OPS, they're not worthless. I guess I just disagree with the notion that OPS+ is the defining measure of a player's total worth, important as it obviously is.

 

My point was, he's not that far off of some pretty good years. He could be a pretty valuable bench player, if used properly. Which, of course, is the source of everyone's worry, including my own.

[goonys evil twin]

hopefully the Cubs will ask him to platoon in right against lefties and spot start in the other two outfield positions.

 

No, hopefully somebody else will get that job.

 

is this really necessary when the full quote begins with "while I don't want Grissom as the fifth outfielder?"

 

"In the even he makes the team, which I do not want, hopefully the Cubs will ask him to platoon in right against lefties and spot start in the other two outfield positions, and not take significant amount of playing time away from Murton."

 

satisfied?

 

Geez man, take it easy.

[goonys evil twin]

While I generally agree with what's being said here, I think people are vastly underrating Grissom's career. He was a very good player at his peak, and had value as recently as '02-'04. This is not Hollandsworth or Goodwin we're talking about here.

 

Grissom was never a very good player. He had a reasonably successful career. He had a couple good years, but he was never very good. His OPS+ was only above average 5 times in his career.

 

But most importantly, while the guy was a servicable player in his day, his day is past. He's 39. He was god awful last season. He can't be counted on for anything this year.

 

In 2003, Grissom had 22 Win Shares, and 16 in '04. In '02 (albeit not a full season), he had an OPS+ of 124. He's always had value in the field and on the bases and, while those things aren't as valuable as OPS, they're not worthless. I guess I just disagree with the notion that OPS+ is the defining measure of a player's total worth, important as it obviously is.

 

My point was, he's not that far off of some pretty good years. He could be a pretty valuable bench player, if used properly. Which, of course, is the source of everyone's worry, including my own.

 

I'm not denying he had a good year. I just don't think you're being realistic when you say people are underrating his career. He was below average most of the time. If he was on your team his entire career, you would have been pissed if he started the whole time. Sure he had his moments, but his career was highly unimpressive. And now he's at the end of his career, so nobody should be expecting much out of him.

[frostwyrm]

While I generally agree with what's being said here, I think people are vastly underrating Grissom's career. He was a very good player at his peak, and had value as recently as '02-'04. This is not Hollandsworth or Goodwin we're talking about here.

 

I certainly don't want him displacing Murton, but if you're gonna have a "crafty vet" (and we all know Dusty has a pathological need for them), better someone that's actually done something at a high level before, who apparently doesn't have the expectation of seeing a lot of action.

 

I don't object to giving Grissom a chance to be a lefty-only specialist. The obvious danger is that he excels in that role and then Dusty takes that as a sign to expand the role.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't object to giving Grissom a chance to be a lefty-only specialist. The obvious danger is that he excels in that role and then Dusty takes that as a sign to expand the role.

 

I don't object to giving him the chance, I object to giving him a head start in the race just because he was good a few years ago and is a "proven veteran."

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Did anyone catch the in game interview with Dusty Baker during Sunday's telecast? He sounded pretty impressed by Sing and "The Riot".

 

I almost get the impression that Baker wouldn't mind having Pagan around. If he could play CF he'd be a decent bench player. He could also teach Pierre how to get a good jump when trying to steal a base.

 

Anyway, the WBC, by taking away Barrett, Blanco and Lee, is a great opportunity for Sing and the catchers to show what they can do.

 

Pierre doesn't know how to get a good jump when stealing a base?

 

As often as he gets thrown out, I'd say yes, he could use some help.

 

And who's going to teach him that? Pagan, Mr. 27 for 42 last season?

 

Pierre was at 77% last season.