Baker on who may be in the 2 hole...

[UK1679666180]

It was Madden, Carter mentioned Delino "shooting his wad".

[AR-Baseball-Fan]

I thought you all would get a kick out of this quote from Dusty from Cubs.com. Looks like Neifi in the 2 hole...

 

Extra bases: Of the three second basemen in camp -- Todd Walker, Jerry Hairston Jr., and Neifi Perez -- Baker said all of them could handle the No. 2 spot in the order. "That's the most unselfish, smartest spot in the lineup," Baker said. "You have to be able to handle the bat. It's also a position that won't run as much because then they'll walk D-Lee. It's a position for a more established, accomplished veteran player." ...

 

How did you get Neifi out of that?

 

If I would have just read that quote I would have thought he was talking about Walker.

 

Because according to His Dustiness, "Neifi saved us."

[hawkeyecub]

I thought you all would get a kick out of this quote from Dusty from Cubs.com. Looks like Neifi in the 2 hole...

 

Extra bases: Of the three second basemen in camp -- Todd Walker, Jerry Hairston Jr., and Neifi Perez -- Baker said all of them could handle the No. 2 spot in the order. "That's the most unselfish, smartest spot in the lineup," Baker said. "You have to be able to handle the bat. It's also a position that won't run as much because then they'll walk D-Lee. It's a position for a more established, accomplished veteran player." ...

 

How did you get Neifi out of that?

 

If I would have just read that quote I would have thought he was talking about Walker.

 

Because according to His Dustiness, "Neifi saved us."

 

How does that have anything to do with this statement? It doesn't.

[biittner77]

I read that quote and see that it says Murton and Cedeno will bat 7th & 8th.

 

Given Baker's preference for not disturbing the lineup, it sounds to me like whomever is playing 2nd will be batting 2nd. At the risk of sounding positive, at least each of the 3 brings something different. Walker provides power and is the best hitter. He's also a LH bat. Hairston provides speed and reasonable defense. Neifi plays the best defense of the 3.

 

Hopefully, this will mean that on days when Perez is playing SS he will be batting 7th or 8th with Walker/ Hairston remaining in the 2nd spot.

[TheDude]

There is a lot of overreaction is this thread. Dusty stated as well that he expects Walker has the lead for starting 2B. Both Dusty and Hendry stated that Cedeno has the lead for the starting SS. Both stated Murton has the edge in LF.

 

I don't understand why people place so much weight on one Dusty quote over another. Neifi is not the projected starter. Is it really so hard to hold off on the complaints and incessent whining. Nobody will fault anybody for a whine festival if Nefi ends up taking the starting job from from somebody and then hitting 2nd.

 

But for the time being, that's not the stated plan of either the coach of the GM.

[Blueheart05]

I thought you all would get a kick out of this quote from Dusty from Cubs.com. Looks like Neifi in the 2 hole...

 

Extra bases: Of the three second basemen in camp -- Todd Walker, Jerry Hairston Jr., and Neifi Perez -- Baker said all of them could handle the No. 2 spot in the order. "That's the most unselfish, smartest spot in the lineup," Baker said. "You have to be able to handle the bat. It's also a position that won't run as much because then they'll walk D-Lee. It's a position for a more established, accomplished veteran player." ...

 

Before we get carried away with the worst case senario (Perez) in the second spot, I think that it's fair to ad that Mike Kiley in the Suntimes doesn't mention Neifi when he talks about Baker's decision:

 

Baker said Walker and Hairston are also in competition to be the No. 2 hitter behind Juan Pierre.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I think it's funny that nobody believes what Dusty says until it's something that can be twisted to mean that Neifi will start 155 games and bat #2 for 150 of those.

 

Dusty says Walker's his 2B if he's still on the team. Translation: Walk will be traded, Neifi starts at 2B.

 

Dusty says Ronny is young. Translation: Ronny will ride the pine while Neifi starts at SS.

 

Dusty sings Murton's praises. Translation: *crickets*

[goonys evil twin]

I think it's funny that nobody believes what Dusty says until it's something that can be twisted to mean that Neifi will start 155 games and bat #2 for 150 of those.

 

Actions speak louder than words, Dusty's actions make it tough for many to believe any of the often times nonsensical words he has to say.

[wastra]

Dusty can talk all he wants. The bottom line is that with very very few exceptions, when given the option, he's almost ALWAYS taken the bad veteran over the youngster with more potential, and he's used the bad veteran incorrectly almost 100% of the time.

 

Neifi is the perfect example. No matter what he says about playing Cedeno or Walker, until he shows us that he's no longer infatuated with this ineffective player, we're not buying what he's selling.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Dusty can talk all he wants. The bottom line is that with very very few exceptions, when given the option, he's almost ALWAYS taken the bad veteran over the youngster with more potential, and he's used the bad veteran incorrectly almost 100% of the time.

 

Neifi is the perfect example. No matter what he says about playing Cedeno or Walker, until he shows us that he's no longer infatuated with this ineffective player, we're not buying what he's selling.

 

Somehow Murton wound up with 140 ML AB in 2005. He was given his chance to prove himself and he did. Now he gets the starting job in LF. Who's going to take a ton of AB from Murton in '06? Mabry and Grissom? If Murton gets beat out by those two for playing time, he doesn't deserve to be the everyday LF.

 

It's not like we have Griffey, Dunn, Pena, and Kearns competing for playing time like Cinci did. Mabry and Grissom aren't fit to lick Kearns's cleats. It's not going to be much of a competition for playing time in LF unless Murton somehow transforms into Dubois.

 

I'm less convinced that Cedeno will continue to play everyday when Neifi is in the wings making 2.5M/season. Cedeno is going to have to prove he deserves that spot and do it early in the season. A prolonged slump puts him on the bench. Dusty is indeed a vetophile, but it usually only shows when the younger guy hasn't gone through the initial breaking in period (150 AB or so).

[Jehrico]

I wonder if Dusty learned something over the offseason, because saying that you can't run in the 2nd hole because the walk DLee, contradicts his love of sac bunting in the 2 hole that got Lee walked a bunch last year...

 

I remember being screaming mad at Baylor for bunting all of the darned time. I don't recall Baker bunting nearly as much as Baylor did. With Neifi, it's alright to bunt alot because you know he's probably not going to ground into a DP when he bunts.

[goonys evil twin]

I wonder if Dusty learned something over the offseason, because saying that you can't run in the 2nd hole because the walk DLee, contradicts his love of sac bunting in the 2 hole that got Lee walked a bunch last year...

 

I remember being screaming mad at Baylor for bunting all of the darned time. I don't recall Baker bunting nearly as much as Baylor did. With Neifi, it's alright to bunt alot because you know he's probably not going to ground into a DP when he bunts.

 

Yeah, I definitely remember the Donny Buntball era pretty clearly, and don't think Dusty compares on that front. But there were a few too many times when he would sac bunt in front of Lee, who would just get walked only to have Burnitz end the inning.

[WrigleyinEngland]

I believe Murton will develop in to a perfect number 2 hitter. nice eye good contact and a little bit of speed. He ain't no vet man so he wont get a chance this decade.

[Jehrico]

I believe Murton will develop in to a perfect number 2 hitter. nice eye good contact and a little bit of speed. He ain't no vet man so he wont get a chance this decade.

 

I agree. I see Murton evolving into a Kirby Puckett style ballplayer with maybe a little less power.

[MembersOnlyJacket]

Where you bat, where you field, and how much you play should be based on performance. If that is the metric, then who would you be targeting to bat 2nd based on each player's most recent performance (2005):

 

A. 268 ab, .280/.300/.714, 33 r, 6 bb/26 k

 

B. 254 ab, .299/.351/.843, 36 r, 20 bb/23 k

 

?

 

As for Murton, I completely agree that he's got a chance to be a superb #2 hitter, but I don't see that as being a likely scenario. I really feel like Dusty is going to slot him 6th going into the season.

 

If I had to guess on opening day:

 

1. Pierre

2. Walker

3. Lee

4. Ramirez

5. Jonez

6. Murton

7. Barrett

8. Cedeno

[CubfaninCA]

I thought you all would get a kick out of this quote from Dusty from Cubs.com. Looks like Neifi in the 2 hole...

 

Extra bases: Of the three second basemen in camp -- Todd Walker, Jerry Hairston Jr., and Neifi Perez -- Baker said all of them could handle the No. 2 spot in the order. "That's the most unselfish, smartest spot in the lineup," Baker said. "You have to be able to handle the bat. It's also a position that won't run as much because then they'll walk D-Lee. It's a position for a more established, accomplished veteran player." ...

 

Absolutely absurd translation. There's no guarantees for any of these guys right now. They'll have to earn it in spring training & that's how it should be. Let the stretching begin though.

[ddwyer]

Members only, I would make one change - switch Barrett and Murton. The rest of the lineup looks great.

[dalgreen]

It's not just that Pierre shouldn't steal with Neifi batting second. He won't be able to steal with Neifi batting second. The guy just doesn't take enough pitchers.

 

And if Dusty values Pierre's speed enough to not bad Neifi there, that could mean 1) he's not starting at second and 2) might not be starting regularly since Neifi's value to Dusty goes down a bit if he's hitting 7th or 8th.

 

At least I hope.

 

I can't imagine how many blown steals Pierre will have when Neifi fouls off a pitch in the dirt after Pierre is almost standing on second.

 

There is still no doubt in my mind Perez will be the starting SS.

 

Are we all talking about the same Juan Pierre? Or are some of you assuming he's going to all of a sudden start stealing at an 80% success rate? I won't mention that he needs to also improve his OBP for any of this concern regarding the #2 position to be relevant. I loathe the idea of Perez starting at second, but if neither Walker nor Hairston clearly beats him out statistically then that's more of a slam on Walker and Hairston.

 

I'm not a big fan of Baker to say the least. But I'll give him a little more of a chance since he'll have no excuses this year. After all, he finally has more speed, a leadoff man, a good bullpen and better defense up the middle.... something he's been crying about since the end of 2003. Now he has no excuses to fall back on.

[A New Era]

It's not just that Pierre shouldn't steal with Neifi batting second. He won't be able to steal with Neifi batting second. The guy just doesn't take enough pitchers.

 

And if Dusty values Pierre's speed enough to not bad Neifi there, that could mean 1) he's not starting at second and 2) might not be starting regularly since Neifi's value to Dusty goes down a bit if he's hitting 7th or 8th.

 

At least I hope.

 

I can't imagine how many blown steals Pierre will have when Neifi fouls off a pitch in the dirt after Pierre is almost standing on second.

 

There is still no doubt in my mind Perez will be the starting SS.

 

Are we all talking about the same Juan Pierre? Or are some of you assuming he's going to all of a sudden start stealing at an 80% success rate? I won't mention that he needs to also improve his OBP for any of this concern regarding the #2 position to be relevant. I loathe the idea of Perez starting at second, but if neither Walker nor Hairston clearly beats him out statistically then that's more of a slam on Walker and Hairston.

 

I'm not a big fan of Baker to say the least. But I'll give him a little more of a chance since he'll have no excuses this year. After all, he finally has more speed, a leadoff man, a good bullpen and better defense up the middle.... something he's been crying about since the end of 2003. Now he has no excuses to fall back on.

 

How is Walker/Hairston/Neifi 2B - Cedeno SS - Pierre CF

 

all that much more better "defensively" than

 

Walker/Hairston 2B - Perez SS, Patterson CF

 

It's a wash, at best. Now if he had some GOOD defense at 2B, I'd agree with you. The only way it's BETTER is if we sacrafice OF to a huge degree and put Neifi at 2B for better defense.

[Diffusion]

I wonder what the record is for GIDP's per at bat (minus leading off an inning at bats)? I wonder how close Neifi came to breaking that record?

 

He led off an inning 138 times in 604 plate appearances. He GIDP 22 times last year. He came to the plate with no one on 368 times.

 

604-368=236 plate appearances divided by 22 GIDP's is almost once per 10 plate appearances.

 

He only had 143 AB+BB+HBP last year with a runner on first though.

[SouthSideRyan]

I wonder what the record is for GIDP's per at bat (minus leading off an inning at bats)? I wonder how close Neifi came to breaking that record?

 

He led off an inning 138 times in 604 plate appearances. He GIDP 22 times last year. He came to the plate with no one on 368 times.

 

604-368=236 plate appearances divided by 22 GIDP's is almost once per 10 plate appearances.

 

He only had 143 AB+BB+HBP last year with a runner on first though.

 

I don't know if there are any, but SF should be included as well. Sacrifices are tricky to deal with as well, as it's unlikely that you'll hit into a DP on those, so it probably shouldn't count, but it's possible Neifi hit into at least one DP while sacrificing last year.

[CubinNY]

They'll have to earn it in spring training & that's how it should be.

 

No that is not how it "should be". What if Neifi is on a hot streak for three weeks in meaningless games in March and Walker or even worse, Cedeno struggle?

 

There are ten years that support that Walker is the better player over either Neifi or Hairston. A few dozen at-bats in meaningless games in March don't make a difference.

 

With very few exception Spring Training is not a time to win jobs.

Edited February 23, 2006 by CubinNY

[Mark Priors Calves]

With very few exception Spring Training is not a time to win jobs.

Especially in a case like this. Todd Walker is cleary the best of the 3. Competition should be used for situations when a new player is brought in, or even when a rookie is a potential starter. All three of these guys were on the team last year, all three are established veteran players. Seeing how they perform in garbage spring training games really shouldn't play much of factor in determining who will start at 2B this year.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

With very few exception Spring Training is not a time to win jobs.

 

Especially this year since the WBC will provide for even more diluted talent on the field for ST games.

[CuseCubFan69]

It's not just that Pierre shouldn't steal with Neifi batting second. He won't be able to steal with Neifi batting second. The guy just doesn't take enough pitchers.

 

And if Dusty values Pierre's speed enough to not bad Neifi there, that could mean 1) he's not starting at second and 2) might not be starting regularly since Neifi's value to Dusty goes down a bit if he's hitting 7th or 8th.

 

At least I hope.

 

I can't imagine how many blown steals Pierre will have when Neifi fouls off a pitch in the dirt after Pierre is almost standing on second.

 

There is still no doubt in my mind Perez will be the starting SS.

 

Are we all talking about the same Juan Pierre? Or are some of you assuming he's going to all of a sudden start stealing at an 80% success rate? I won't mention that he needs to also improve his OBP for any of this concern regarding the #2 position to be relevant. I loathe the idea of Perez starting at second, but if neither Walker nor Hairston clearly beats him out statistically then that's more of a slam on Walker and Hairston.

 

I'm not a big fan of Baker to say the least. But I'll give him a little more of a chance since he'll have no excuses this year. After all, he finally has more speed, a leadoff man, a good bullpen and better defense up the middle.... something he's been crying about since the end of 2003. Now he has no excuses to fall back on.

 

I don't remember writing about him having a 80% steal rate but I'll read my post again to see if I did........nope, I didn't. My point is that Perez will take away steals from him because he swings at every pitch.

 

And again I will say that Perez will be starting at SS and play in at least 140 games.