Name Chicago's best starting rotation

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Yeah but can Z or Buerhle stare into your soul?

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_112020.jpg

[Diffusion]

We have a winner!

Imo this is the most accurate breakdown of the 2 teams starting staffs.

Bottom line, there are 10 pretty darn good to great pitchers to choose from.

 

Except for the fact that Zambrano is already better than Buehrle and that he didn't pick a #5.

 

Buehrle vs Zambrano is up to debate. The difference in leagues can skew some of those numbers.

 

You're right. Buerhle has pitched in what over the last few years has been the worst division in baseball. That really needs to be taken into account and held against him.

 

I dont know the stats so if i am wrong i apolozige, but It seems as if The Cell has also been a better hitters park the last few years then Wrigley.

 

Baseball Think Factory says that for 2003-05 the Cell was 1.06 and Wrigley 1.02. So, yeh, but not by that much.

[Diffusion]

Yeah but can Z or Buerhle stare into your soul?

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_112020.jpg

 

No, but Z turns straight men gay in his own special way.

 

http://ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/CUBS_SPRING_BASEBALL.sff_AZNH109_20060216145455.jpg

[rjchapma]

It's as simple as this Buerlhe is better because he has been consistent for his whole career. Thats it Zambrano could be a better pitcher when it all comes down to it. For once though please know what you are talking about and don't just give a Cubs player the edge because hes a Cubs player. That statement that Zambrano is eqaul to him in statistics is def wrong because last time i checked Beurlhe has what 3 or 4 seasons on him. Also i think that the number 5 spot is vacant because any of those guys depending on injuries could fit in there. Lastly Freddy Garcia is a better pitcher than Wood, Maddux, Rusch, Williams, Hill, Miller, Mccarthy, Garland, and Vasquez. Look at there numbers excluding Maddux against his hes much better im sorry I said 15 hes around there every year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's as simple as this Buerlhe is better because he has been consistent for his whole career. Thats it Zambrano could be a better pitcher when it all comes down to it. For once though please know what you are talking about and don't just give a Cubs player the edge because hes a Cubs player. That statement that Zambrano is eqaul to him in statistics is def wrong because last time i checked Beurlhe has what 3 or 4 seasons on him.

 

In case you missed it the first time:

 

In their years where they didn't do any relief work:

 

Zambrano- 136, 165, 131 ERA+; Average: 144

Buehrle- 140, 129, 108, 126, 143 ERA+; Average: 129

 

Z is two years younger than Buehrle, and has pitched in 2 fewer seasons. In those seasons he has been better than Buehrle on the whole, never going below a 131 ERA+, while Buehrle has been below that mark in 3 of his 5 seasons.

[rjchapma]

Think what you wanna think, but Buerlhe is better just my personal opinion. Zambrano if hes not [expletive] should better by the end of his career though.

 

And for you that what my full rotation

Buerlhe

Zambrano

Prior

Garcia

Contreras

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Think what you wanna think, but Buerlhe is better just my personal opinion.

 

That's fine, but if that's what you think without anything to support it beyond conjecture, then you might want to avoid saying:

 

It's as simple as this Buerlhe is better because he has been consistent for his whole career. Thats it Zambrano could be a better pitcher when it all comes down to it. For once though please know what you are talking about and don't just give a Cubs player the edge because hes a Cubs player. That statement that Zambrano is eqaul to him in statistics is def wrong because last time i checked Beurlhe has what 3 or 4 seasons on him.

[rjchapma]

oh i would also like to mention that buerlhe does have a ring and was part of the 4 CG span clinching them into the World Series.

I think that might give him the nod over Zambrano.

[SouthSideRyan]

oh i would also like to mention that buerlhe does have a ring and was part of the 4 CG span clinching them into the World Series.

I think that might give him the nod over Zambrano.

 

JACK MORRIS FOR PRESIDENT OF EARTH!!

[Andy]

oh i would also like to mention that buerlhe does have a ring and was part of the 4 CG span clinching them into the World Series.

I think that might give him the nod over Zambrano.

Could you capitalize the first words of your sentences, please? And it is spelled Buehrle. Sorry for being an ass but I have a pet peeve with grammar.

 

JACK MORRIS FOR PRESIDENT OF EARTH!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[rjchapma]

Oh I forgot to mention that Buehrle has alot more wins than Zambrano. He has less walks then Zambrano in two more seasons. He also is one if not the best pitcher in going deep into games. Don't get me wrong Zambrano is one of the best in the NL and probably will be a pitcher when all is said and done. Right now though Buehrle is the better pitcher.

Oh and sorry about the grammar sometimes I don't pay that much attention! ha :lol:

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Oh I forgot to mention that Buehrle has alot more wins than Zambrano. He has less walks then Zambrano in two more seasons. He also is one if not the best pitcher in going deep into games. Don't get me wrong Zambrano is one of the best in the NL and probably will be a pitcher when all is said and done. Right now though Buehrle is the better pitcher.

Oh and sorry about the grammar sometimes I don't pay that much attention! ha :lol:

 

Buehrle walks fewer players, and Zambrano gives up fewer hits, gives up less extra base hits, K's many more, gives up fewer HR, better ERA and ERA+, etc.

 

EDIT: Buehrle averages 7.1 IP per start, Zambrano 6.75

[USSoccer]

Oh I forgot to mention that Buehrle has alot more wins than Zambrano. He has less walks then Zambrano in two more seasons. He also is one if not the best pitcher in going deep into games. Don't get me wrong Zambrano is one of the best in the NL and probably will be a pitcher when all is said and done. Right now though Buehrle is the better pitcher.

Oh and sorry about the grammar sometimes I don't pay that much attention! ha :lol:

 

Wins are a team stat. Team. See Clemens, Roger, circa 2005.

 

Also, as Diffusion pointed out, Buehrle pitches in a division with Kansas City and Detroit, two terrible teams.

 

And, FWIW, my top 5:

 

Z

Prior

Buehrle

Vasquez

Wood.

[Drew Doughty]

Don't get me wrong Zambrano is one of the best in the NL and probably will be a pitcher when all is said and done.

 

Oh really?

 

I'd take Zambrano over Buehrle any day.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

It's as simple as this Buerlhe is better because he has been consistent for his whole career. Thats it Zambrano could be a better pitcher when it all comes down to it. For once though please know what you are talking about and don't just give a Cubs player the edge because hes a Cubs player. That statement that Zambrano is eqaul to him in statistics is def wrong because last time i checked Beurlhe has what 3 or 4 seasons on him. Also i think that the number 5 spot is vacant because any of those guys depending on injuries could fit in there. Lastly Freddy Garcia is a better pitcher than Wood, Maddux, Rusch, Williams, Hill, Miller, Mccarthy, Garland, and Vasquez. Look at there numbers excluding Maddux against his hes much better im sorry I said 15 hes around there every year.

 

Well, if you're going on wins and consistiency over a career, you might as well put Maddux on the top of the list.

 

So, in this discussion are you saying who is likely to be better in 2006 or who has been better?

 

If you mean 2006, then the fact Buerhle has done it longer matters little as does his win totals, his WS ring, none of that. Zambrano is likely to be the top if we go by 2006.

 

If you're talking career and that stuff six years ago matters, move Maddux to the number one spot and then we can open up this debate again.

[wolf stansson]

Zambrano

Buherle

Prior (would be one if healthy)

Contreras

Garcia

 

 

Any list involving Cubs pitchers are relative because if Wood and Prior are healthy they are unquestionably the top 2, but obviously...

 

I put Contreras over Garcia because of his second half last year; he could easily suck again.

[rjchapma]

I like your rotation Wolf I just disagree with Zambrano and Buehrle.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Averaging the last three years ERA+ for the rotations, this is the list I've come up with:

 

1. Zambrano

2. Prior

3. Buerhle

4. Wood

5. Vasquez

[Tim]

Averaging ERA+ and then comparing them doesn't really make sense unless you weight it by IP, though.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Averaging ERA+ and then comparing them doesn't really make sense unless you weight it by IP, though.

 

I know...I was just doing it quickly.

 

I'd probaly adjust that list by moving Buerle with Prior. Also, considering that Vasquez's number was bumped by a huge 154+ in 2003, I'd probably replace him with Contreras or Garcia.

[Diffusion]

Also, as Diffusion pointed out, Buehrle pitches in a division with Kansas City and Detroit, two terrible teams.

 

The Twins also don't score runs, like, ever, and the Indians only really broke out a bit last year. Not only are the other teams bad offensively, but there's not a hitter's ballpark in sight anymore since they moved the fences at KC.

 

Average runs per team per year over last five years (as long as Buerhle's been a regular):

AL Central (exc CWS): 747.7

NL Central (exc CHC): 743.8

 

Runs scored per team over last three years (as long as Zambrano's been a regular):

AL Central (exc CWS): 751.2

NL Central (exc CHC): 752.5

 

So, like I said, no real adjustment should be made for the fact that Buerhle pitches in the AL while Zambrano pitches in the NL.

 

Therefore, using ERA+ isn't relevant.

 

Using ERA is.

 

And Zambrano wins in that category hands down.