Good bye Sammy Thread

[Chocolate Milk]

Hmm. If you just go to the main MLB page on ESPN.com, there's a simple yes or no poll at the bottom right.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/

 

My apologies. I didn't see that one. Wow. Even Illinois it isn't close. The general perception of Sammy must be worse than I thought.

[Andy]

I love how 23% voted that he never used steroids, then only 15% believed he would have hit 588 home runs without them.

[Soul]

I love how 23% voted that he never used steroids, then only 15% believed he would have hit 588 home runs without them.

 

That's why polls are junk----for any purpose. People are just clicking buttons. Means nothing. Means even less when some pollster is asking questions of someone who is trying to get their kids to the dinner table. Yet those answers are "trusted" as the authority on what "America thinks."

 

Just isn't true.

[SouthSideRyan]

Hmm. If you just go to the main MLB page on ESPN.com, there's a simple yes or no poll at the bottom right.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/

 

My apologies. I didn't see that one. Wow. Even Illinois it isn't close. The general perception of Sammy must be worse than I thought.

 

Bear in mind that much of Illinois is made up of Cardinals and White Sox fans.

[Soul]

All the poll confirms is that most people are morons. No suprise there.

[NCCubFan]

All the poll confirms is that most people are morons. No suprise there.

Whoa, that's going overboard. Some people, yes, but not most people.

[RynoRules]

If possible, try and read this morning's Trib. They have polled their own writers plus several out of towners re Sammy's candidacy for the HOF. Some of them say they would vote yes with their noses held, which, to me anyway, is fine.

 

Others wrote that they won't vote for him b/c he was an "offensive freak show" who was a "terrible teammate". Good for them - just so long as those same people did not vote for Reggie Jackson, Ty Cobb, etc.

[AI]

Sammy was a sensational ball player. Someone listed his records, but they forgot to add that he was, in my opinion, the most sensitive athlete I've ever seen. I don't buy into the notion that he was a bad person. His charity work should say enough about him as a person. His ego and his over-sensitivity made me dislike him. A lot. My impression of him was that it was all about him. He always said that showmanship was for the fans. But I think that wasn't totally honest. He needed the crowd to love him.

 

Like I said, he was a great player, but I don't have to worship at his altar. I doubt highly his story about the corked bat. I think he used it to try and get back in the groove when, at the time, he couldn't catch up to a decent fastball. I doubt he used them for a long period of time and I also doubt that he used them to attain many (or even any) of his homeruns. The world may never know whether he used steroids, but to wipe away any speculation because he never got caught is naive. I think speculation, given his accomplishments, body changes and the era, is reasonable.

[soccer10k]

he was a prima donna that only cared about himself.

 

Which is exactly why he won the 1999 Jackie Robinson Humanitarian award for his work in his home country of the Dominican Republic after Hurricanes destroyed it. Right?

 

Look at the pictures I posted above, and then try to honestly write that ignorant trash again.

 

Everyone knows Sammy had an ego. But idiotic statments like "he only cared about himself" are totally untrue and uncalled for.

 

I love Sammy Sosa. I appreciate everything he did for the Cubs, the city of Chicago, and just baseball in general. I will admit that Sammy was one of the reasons why I tuned in to watch Cubs games over the years. But let me set one thing straight. I just want to watch the Cubs play. Watching the highlights on SportsCenter or game recaps on ESPN.com just doesn't do it for me. I'm from California so the only chance I get to watch the Cubs is on ESPN and WGN, which my cable company replaced with another Spanish station for a couple years before bringing it back. I want to watch my team play Sammy or no Sammy. I admit that I did always hope for another Sosa titanic blast. But I also wanted to see the young players. I watched Kerry Wood pitch back in 1998 hoping for another 20 strikeout game. I watched Mark Prior a couple years ago to see how good he actually was. So no, it isn't all about Sammy Sosa.

 

he was, in my opinion, the most sensitive athlete I've ever seen. I don't buy into the notion that he was a bad person. His charity work should say enough about him as a person. His ego and his over-sensitivity made me dislike him. A lot. My impression of him was that it was all about him. He always said that showmanship was for the fans. But I think that wasn't totally honest. He needed the crowd to love him.

 

I couldn't have said it any better SCCubsFan. Everything Sammy did was so the fans would like him. I think a great deal of it was an act. Sammy's not an idiot. He knew all of the right things to say to the media so they wouldn't turn against him. Some stars, like Barry Bonds, don't care what the fans and media think about them. Sammy isn't one of those people. He wanted people to like him and did whatever he could to make that happen.

 

As I said before, I appreciate everything he did. I will always remember all of the records he set. But with the good comes the bad. People remember Pete Rose for a few things: playing hard ALL the time, getting the career hits record, and getting banned from baseball for gambling (in no particular order). I am not saying what Sosa did is anywhere near as bad as Rose did because it isn't.

 

Unfortunately for Sosa, his true colors came out in 2004. As a star, you have to recognize that if things go bad and you aren't performing like you should be, you will have to accept a big part of the blame. Sammy couldn't handle being blamed. He couldn't handle being dropped in the order and though he deserved to bad third or fourth because he is Sammy Sosa. I know that his numbers dropped after he got hit in the head but the declining numbers was his fault as well. After he got beaned he started standing further away from the plate and refused to move closer. Everybody knew Sammy was too far away except for Sammy. All pitchers had to do was throw the ball on the outside of the plate and Sammy couldn't hit it. That was Sammy just being stubborn.

 

As I said before, I will remember Sammy for both the good and the bad. He is a Hall of Famer but people shouldn't ignore the bad things because of that. I'm not saying to mention the steroid rumers and corked bat first, but it shouldn't be forgotten. He should be remembered for all of the big home runs and all of the records and I don't think his legacy should be tarnished by the steroids.

 

I do not retract my statement about Sammy being a prima donna and nobody can convince me he isn't one. But that doesn't mean I don't like the guy and don't appreciate his accomplishments. I'm just trying to put everything in perspective.

[Soul]

I won't argue that Sammy was full of himself. But so are a ton of these other guys. Some of them hide it better, or have better PR firms managing their image. I don't think Sammy should suffer because the media dug up dirt on him that also exists for a ton of other players who are already in the hall of fame.

 

I don't think personality flaws should take someone out of the running for the hall of fame. In fact, I feel those who would not vote for Sammy because he was "selfish" are intellectually dishonest. A ton of other players who they already voted for share the same trait. So that's complete B.S. and everyone needs to recognize it as such.

 

There may be other arguments against Sammy. But the whole personality thing is trash. Sammy had a good side, and a bad side. That shouldn't keep him out.

[Roast]

I won't argue that Sammy was full of himself. But so are a ton of these other guys. Some of them hide it better, or have better PR firms managing their image. I don't think Sammy should suffer because the media dug up dirt on him that also exists for a ton of other players who are already in the hall of fame.

 

I don't think personality flaws should take someone out of the running for the hall of fame. In fact, I feel those who would not vote for Sammy because he was "selfish" are intellectually dishonest. A ton of other players who they already voted for share the same trait. So that's complete B.S. and everyone needs to recognize it as such.

 

There may be other arguments against Sammy. But the whole personality thing is trash. Sammy had a good side, and a bad side. That shouldn't keep him out.

 

Exactly. Anyone ever heard of Ty Cobb? You know, First guy ever inducted into the hall of fame....

 

lets talk about some of the things he did:

 

Spiked people

One time, gashed the entire back of a mans leg open by spiking

He SHARPENED his spikes as to have them inflict more damage

He broke a womans (she was a member of his family) nose w/ a baseball bat

Beat both of his wives

Abandoned his children

Claimed to kill (with the butt/scope of a gun) a man who tried to mug him, and from all accounts he's telling the truth

Tried to kill a hotel manager when he was told to quiet down, others were sleeping.

Carried a gun, and beleived it was his *right* to use it on anyone that pissed him off...

 

The list goes on.

 

 

And yet no ones arguing that he should be in the hall. Now obviously he's better than sammy. But at the same time No one argues that sammy's statistics make him a lock for the hall.

[Chris]

From the latest Cubs Mailbag

 

The Cubs are looking ahead to the 2006 season. Sosa's pursuit of 600 is not their concern. And to everyone who has suggested the team bring Sosa back for one day so he can retire as a Cub, Major League Baseball does not allow one-day contracts.

[mhuber92211]

From the latest Cubs Mailbag

 

The Cubs are looking ahead to the 2006 season. Sosa's pursuit of 600 is not their concern. And to everyone who has suggested the team bring Sosa back for one day so he can retire as a Cub, Major League Baseball does not allow one-day contracts.

 

There goes that notion. Oh well, so much for sentiments

[OleMissCub]

I won't argue that Sammy was full of himself. But so are a ton of these other guys. Some of them hide it better, or have better PR firms managing their image. I don't think Sammy should suffer because the media dug up dirt on him that also exists for a ton of other players who are already in the hall of fame.

 

I don't think personality flaws should take someone out of the running for the hall of fame. In fact, I feel those who would not vote for Sammy because he was "selfish" are intellectually dishonest. A ton of other players who they already voted for share the same trait. So that's complete B.S. and everyone needs to recognize it as such.

 

There may be other arguments against Sammy. But the whole personality thing is trash. Sammy had a good side, and a bad side. That shouldn't keep him out.

 

Exactly. Anyone ever heard of Ty Cobb? You know, First guy ever inducted into the hall of fame....

 

lets talk about some of the things he did:

 

Spiked people

One time, gashed the entire back of a mans leg open by spiking

He SHARPENED his spikes as to have them inflict more damage

He broke a womans (she was a member of his family) nose w/ a baseball bat

Beat both of his wives

Abandoned his children

Claimed to kill (with the butt/scope of a gun) a man who tried to mug him, and from all accounts he's telling the truth

Tried to kill a hotel manager when he was told to quiet down, others were sleeping.

Carried a gun, and beleived it was his *right* to use it on anyone that pissed him off...

 

The list goes on.

.

 

Yet Pete Rose isn't in for gambling, more MLB hypocrisy.

 

In Cobb's defense, when he killed the guy it was in self defense, the thugs who jumped him on his way to the stadium did stab him several times in the back causing serious wounds. Cobb refused to see a doctor and played later that day with blood staining the back of his jersey, several newspapers at the time confirmed this story, and Cobb in the early 60's showed Al Stump his wounds on his back when Stump questioned him about the incident.

 

But ya, Cobb was a serious douche-bag....nevertheless, he was one of the top 5 greatest players ever in my opinion.

 

http://www.cmgworldwide.com/baseball/cobb/images/C5.jpg

[Soul]

I won't argue that Sammy was full of himself. But so are a ton of these other guys. Some of them hide it better, or have better PR firms managing their image. I don't think Sammy should suffer because the media dug up dirt on him that also exists for a ton of other players who are already in the hall of fame.

 

I don't think personality flaws should take someone out of the running for the hall of fame. In fact, I feel those who would not vote for Sammy because he was "selfish" are intellectually dishonest. A ton of other players who they already voted for share the same trait. So that's complete B.S. and everyone needs to recognize it as such.

 

There may be other arguments against Sammy. But the whole personality thing is trash. Sammy had a good side, and a bad side. That shouldn't keep him out.

 

Exactly. Anyone ever heard of Ty Cobb? You know, First guy ever inducted into the hall of fame....

 

lets talk about some of the things he did:

 

Spiked people

One time, gashed the entire back of a mans leg open by spiking

He SHARPENED his spikes as to have them inflict more damage

He broke a womans (she was a member of his family) nose w/ a baseball bat

Beat both of his wives

Abandoned his children

Claimed to kill (with the butt/scope of a gun) a man who tried to mug him, and from all accounts he's telling the truth

Tried to kill a hotel manager when he was told to quiet down, others were sleeping.

Carried a gun, and beleived it was his *right* to use it on anyone that pissed him off...

 

The list goes on.

.

 

Yet Pete Rose isn't in for gambling, more MLB hypocrisy.

 

In Cobb's defense, when he killed the guy it was in self defense, the thugs who jumped him on his way to the stadium did stab him several times in the back causing serious wounds. Cobb refused to see a doctor and played later that day with blood staining the back of his jersey, several newspapers at the time confirmed this story, and Cobb in the early 60's showed Al Stump his wounds on his back when Stump questioned him about the incident.

 

But ya, Cobb was a serious douche-bag....nevertheless, he was one of the top 5 greatest players ever in my opinion.

 

http://www.cmgworldwide.com/baseball/cobb/images/C5.jpg

 

Cobb is an extreme example, though a good one. Still, one doesn't need to bring up Ty Cobb to illustrate why keeping Sosa out of the hall for purely personality reason is hypocritical. This is professional sports circa 2006. The egos flying around your average clubhouse are pretty enormous. Sammy was certainly one of them. But check the average year's hall of fame class. Many of these guys had their moments----many

were downright incorrigible. I just don't think personal dislike for somebody should be the deciding factor, which it appears to be for at least some of the voters.

 

By the way, a reasonably strong argument can be made that personal dislike on the part of many voters is what keeps Ronnie Santo out of the hall. I believe that's wrong as well.