Fox Sports grades Cub off-season a D / SI gives them B

[Bull]

The big picture for me is, Hendry did a good job in 03 and 04. 2005 was a disaster, partly becasue of Hendry, partly because of injuries. 2006 is yet to be determined. If the pitching stays healthy this year were good enough to win a WS imo.

 

The big picture for me is Hendry hasn't built a great team yet, and he's been awful the past two offseasons.

 

Unlike some fans, and apparantly the Cubs management, I'm not satisfied with mediocrity.

 

It's hard to have a great team when you build the team around dominant pitching only to have your dominant pitchers not stay healthy. Not to mention when two of your middle of the order guys can't stay on the field consistently. If Wood, Prior, and Z each make 30 starts this year and we don't win 90 games then Hendry is to blame. But until we can keep our best players on the field I don't think Hendry is entirely at fault.

 

well maybe if hendry relied a little bit more on building a team with a top 5 OBP, we wouldn't have to rely so much on pitching.

 

I'll take dominant pitching over top 5 OBP always. Dominant pitching wins championships not top 5 OBP.

 

Why not try to have both if you have the financial means?

[Magnetic Curses]

The big picture for me is, Hendry did a good job in 03 and 04. 2005 was a disaster, partly becasue of Hendry, partly because of injuries. 2006 is yet to be determined. If the pitching stays healthy this year were good enough to win a WS imo.

 

The big picture for me is Hendry hasn't built a great team yet, and he's been awful the past two offseasons.

 

Unlike some fans, and apparantly the Cubs management, I'm not satisfied with mediocrity.

 

It's hard to have a great team when you build the team around dominant pitching only to have your dominant pitchers not stay healthy. Not to mention when two of your middle of the order guys can't stay on the field consistently. If Wood, Prior, and Z each make 30 starts this year and we don't win 90 games then Hendry is to blame. But until we can keep our best players on the field I don't think Hendry is entirely at fault.

 

well maybe if hendry relied a little bit more on building a team with a top 5 OBP, we wouldn't have to rely so much on pitching.

 

I'll take dominant pitching over top 5 OBP always. Dominant pitching wins championships not top 5 OBP.

 

um.....................okay, but my point isn't to compare the two. i've stated many times before that my recipe for success, in order, is:

 

1. starting pitching

2. OBP

3. SLG

4. relief pitching

 

i was simply noting that if we focused more on OBP, we would be able to weather the injuries to our pitching staff better. are you suggesting that since we have pitching, we shouldn't care about OBP? because that's ridiculous.

 

and we didn't score alot because we didn't walk a lot. we hit well, but walked hardly at all, consequently, we didn't score very much.

 

is it so hard to admit that scoring runs is conducive to winning games?

[Magnetic Curses]

the Cardinals were the only team in the NL last season to be top 5 in pitching and top 5 in OBP.

 

wait, you mean to tell me they didn't win by playing "fundamental" baseball?

 

i don't believe it. they won because they executed more squeeze plays than anyone else!

[Gunned]

The big picture for me is, Hendry did a good job in 03 and 04. 2005 was a disaster, partly becasue of Hendry, partly because of injuries. 2006 is yet to be determined. If the pitching stays healthy this year were good enough to win a WS imo.

 

The big picture for me is Hendry hasn't built a great team yet, and he's been awful the past two offseasons.

 

Unlike some fans, and apparantly the Cubs management, I'm not satisfied with mediocrity.

 

It's hard to have a great team when you build the team around dominant pitching only to have your dominant pitchers not stay healthy. Not to mention when two of your middle of the order guys can't stay on the field consistently. If Wood, Prior, and Z each make 30 starts this year and we don't win 90 games then Hendry is to blame. But until we can keep our best players on the field I don't think Hendry is entirely at fault.

 

well maybe if hendry relied a little bit more on building a team with a top 5 OBP, we wouldn't have to rely so much on pitching.

 

I'll take dominant pitching over top 5 OBP always. Dominant pitching wins championships not top 5 OBP.

Not if it can't stay healthy.

 

Then it probably wouldn't be classified as "dominant."

[nick23]

Your right, every pitcher on the staff should be completely dominant, and every hitter on the team should have a high OBP. Why didn't Hendry think of this? By the way, the Cardinals were the only team in the NL last season to be top 5 in pitching and top 5 in OBP. So either every other GM in the NL is incompetent or it's not quite as easy as you make it out to be. But I do think you're on to something with this idea of everyone on the roster being dominant players.

 

That's weird, I never said everybody should be dominant, but again, you fail to comprehend the words I wrote. Or you purposefully changed them to make me look stupid or something, but I doubt that.

 

Everybody doesn't have to have a high OBP, but the overall team should. Saying the OBP is fine because the infield has a high OBP doesn't hold water. It's the entire team that matters, the whole lineup. 1, or 2, or 3 guys with solid numbers can't negate the rest of the squad. And the point about non-dominant pitchers is that if your goal is to dominate with pitching, you shouldn't waste millions upon millions on mediocre or bad pitchers, as Hendry has done the past few years. Teams with a great lineup that are just looking for innings eaters can justify spending a little extra on mediocre pitchers, because they don't need dominance. But teams with average to below average lineups can't afford to waste time and money on several guys with 4+ ERAs and no semblance of an ability to dominate.

 

I know exactly what you said. You said we had a "couple" of dominant pitchers. I'm assuming by a couple you mean Wood, Prior, and Z. I still find that statement funny because both Wood and Prior missed a lot of time last year and we still led the league in K's and BAA. That sounds pretty dominant to me. And we have 1 really bad pitcher on the staff, Rucsh, and we're paying him 3 million dollars this year. So to say we're paying millions upon millions on mediocre or bad pithcers is just wrong. If Wood stays healthy and the bulpen additions duplicate last years success the staff as a whole will be dominant no matter which way you look at it. Also, I never said the OPB was fine. I said going into last season we had the chance for an above average team OBP. Before what happened to Nomar and Corey. Look, I never said the 2006 cubs are my ideal team. And I definitely don't want to come off like i'll defend Hendry at all times. I absolutely hate the Jones, Neifi, and Rucsh signings. But if Dusty has a good year and fills out the lineup cards correctly, we have a good enough team to go all the way IMO.

[Magnetic Curses]

Then it probably wouldn't be classified as "dominant."

 

i didn't know that dominant in any way denoted good health.

 

besides the whole point is that the offense could have bailed the injured pitchers out last year if it could have shown more discipline.

[nick23]

Then it probably wouldn't be classified as "dominant."

 

i didn't know that dominant in any way denoted good health.

 

besides the whole point is that the offense could have bailed the injured pitchers out last year if it could have shown more discipline.

 

Please tell me what you would have done differently last year to improve our plate discipline. Traded Corey before the season? Kept Sosa? Named Dubois the LF starter? Have a designated runner that ran for Nomar after he hit the ball? Truth is last season was a disaster. Everything went wrong. The team was good enough to go a long way. Just didn't happen.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I said going into last season we had the chance for an above average team OBP. Before what happened to Nomar and Corey.

 

Stop using Corey and Nomar as excuses and examples. Corey's the poster child for impatient, and Nomar is a free-swinger as well. Turns out, Nomar's quite a bit better at making solid contact though.

 

Without them, we posted the #2 BA in the league. Where were we in runs scored? Do you really think Corey hitting 275 with an OBP of 295 would really make enough of a difference?

[The Voice of Reason]

Sports Illustrated gives the Cubs a B.

 

Guess that's what makes horse races and message boards interesting - a difference of opinion.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/john_donovan/01/19/nl.grades/1.html

 

SI summary

 

Lowdown: The restructured and now possibly dominant bullpen should help prop up the always-touchy rotation. The biggest non-pitching question remains at shortstop, where veteran Neifi Perez and 23-year-old Ronny Cedeno will try to do what the Cubs wanted Furcal to do. Still, when the smoke clears, this offseason will be judged on how well the hard-working Pierre does. He improves the defense and, if he's at top form, he'll provide many more RBI opportunities for Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez.

 

GRADE: Improved in field, in the 'pen and at the plate -- B.

Edited January 19, 2006 by The Voice of Reason

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pierre improves the defense? Someone's been watching too much Sportscenter.

[nick23]

Pierre improves the defense? Someone's been watching too much Sportscenter.

How does OBP at the lead off spot not improve the offense?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pierre improves the defense? Someone's been watching too much Sportscenter.

How does OBP at the lead off spot not improve the offense?

 

Defense

[Gunned]

Then it probably wouldn't be classified as "dominant."

 

i didn't know that dominant in any way denoted good health.

 

You can't really dominate from the bench.

[Magnetic Curses]

Then it probably wouldn't be classified as "dominant."

 

i didn't know that dominant in any way denoted good health.

 

besides the whole point is that the offense could have bailed the injured pitchers out last year if it could have shown more discipline.

 

Please tell me what you would have done differently last year to improve our plate discipline. Traded Corey before the season? Kept Sosa? Named Dubois the LF starter? Have a designated runner that ran for Nomar after he hit the ball? Truth is last season was a disaster. Everything went wrong. The team was good enough to go a long way. Just didn't happen.

 

yep, you're absolutely right, hendry did a great job handling that sammy situation and deciding that hollandsworth was good enough to start on a contender. oh yeah, the burnitz move was brilliant.

 

holy crap, dude, you act like hendry had no other choice than to bungle the last two offseasons. a main part of a GM's JOB is to improve the team during the offseason, "aw shucks, i did my best, but there was no one available" is no excuse to suck like he has.

[nick23]

I said going into last season we had the chance for an above average team OBP. Before what happened to Nomar and Corey.

 

Stop using Corey and Nomar as excuses and examples. Corey's the poster child for impatient, and Nomar is a free-swinger as well. Turns out, Nomar's quite a bit better at making solid contact though.

 

Without them, we posted the #2 BA in the league. Where were we in runs scored? Do you really think Corey hitting 275 with an OBP of 295 would really make enough of a difference?

 

No, but Corey with a .320obp and .452slg which is what he had in 04 would have made a difference. And Nomar batting second all year instead of Neifi would have made a tiny differnece also. It's a valid excuse for the lack of runs last year. Sorry if you don't agree, but it's true.

Edit: sorry for the large font. Do not know why it does that sometimes.

[nick23]

Pierre improves the defense? Someone's been watching too much Sportscenter.

How does OBP at the lead off spot not improve the offense?

 

Defense

 

oops

[wade]

Sports Illustrated also said the Cubs would win the world series in 2004.

 

I still have the cover if I need to prove it. :(

[Andy]

Pierre improves the defense? Someone's been watching too much Sportscenter.

I was at the Brewers game last June where Patterson made a full-extension diving catch on a line drive with a guy on 2nd and 1 out late in the game and the Cubs up 2-0, then stood up and doubled the guy off of second in about two microseconds.

 

I like Pierre, but to even suggest that there's a possibility that he is a step up from CPatt in the field is absurd.

[frostwyrm]

The only way you can give the Cubs a B is if Howry and Eyre are great difference-makers. They're not.

[JeffH]

Juan Pierre is a step down defensively from Corey Patterson.

 

Juan Pierre is a step up defensively from Jerry Hairston, Jr.

[sethuel1]

Pierre improves the defense? Someone's been watching too much Sportscenter.

I was at the Brewers game last June where Patterson made a full-extension diving catch on a line drive with a guy on 2nd and 1 out late in the game and the Cubs up 2-0, then stood up and doubled the guy off of second in about two microseconds.

 

I like Pierre, but to even suggest that there's a possibility that he is a step up from CPatt in the field is absurd.

 

I was at that game too. That was a fantastic play. The crowd went wild, and kept cheering him on as he came up to bat first in the bottom half.

 

Too bad he immediately followed it up with a 3 or 4 pitch strikeout.

[Blueheart05]

Pierre improves the defense? Someone's been watching too much Sportscenter.

I was at the Brewers game last June where Patterson made a full-extension diving catch on a line drive with a guy on 2nd and 1 out late in the game and the Cubs up 2-0, then stood up and doubled the guy off of second in about two microseconds.

 

I like Pierre, but to even suggest that there's a possibility that he is a step up from CPatt in the field is absurd.

 

I was at that game too. That was a fantastic play. The crowd went wild, and kept cheering him on as he came up to bat first in the bottom half.

 

Too bad he immediately followed it up with a 3 or 4 pitch strikeout.

 

Then Patterson was loudly boo'd. I felt sorry for the guy.

[ZMovieman]

The Sports Illustrated article features a great deal of Cs, leading me to believe its heavily curved. There is only one A and only some Bs. The author probably gave us a B in comparison to other clubs, not independently examining each team.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Pierre improves the defense? Someone's been watching too much Sportscenter.

I was at the Brewers game last June where Patterson made a full-extension diving catch on a line drive with a guy on 2nd and 1 out late in the game and the Cubs up 2-0, then stood up and doubled the guy off of second in about two microseconds.

 

I like Pierre, but to even suggest that there's a possibility that he is a step up from CPatt in the field is absurd.

 

I was at that game too. That was a fantastic play. The crowd went wild, and kept cheering him on as he came up to bat first in the bottom half.

 

Too bad he immediately followed it up with a 3 or 4 pitch strikeout.

 

Was at that game also, fun game!

[Proven Veteran]

The Sports Illustrated article features a great deal of Cs, leading me to believe its heavily curved. There is only one A and only some Bs. The author probably gave us a B in comparison to other clubs, not independently examining each team.

 

SI's baseball analysis is really poor. I cancelled my subscription partially because of that. I think they have tried to fix it in the past year.