cubs close to trading corey to the o's

[TheDude]

No, the Cubs being the Cubs ended any chance of getting Tejada

 

That's just silly. You have zero real knowledge of how the correspondance went down. On top of that, all indications from the glimpses of media coverage show us that Baltimore has a higher asking price for Tejada than the market is willing to pay (not just the Cubs, but all other interested parties).

 

Why are people so quick to assume Hendry is to blame for not making deals happen? It takes two to tango they say, so folks need to stop pretending Hendry's dancing with himself.

 

Why are people so quick to defend Hendry at all times, when he has done jack to improve this team for the 2nd straight year. Folks need to stop pretending like Hendry is "God" because of what happened in 2003, and look at the overall picture, and quite frankly the picture is pretty damn ugly.

 

The Hendry defenders are grossly outnumbered by his detractors, FYI.

 

Actually my intent was not to defend Hendry so much as reset the field. Deals are not done by one organization and all indications show that Baltimore management is very difficult to deal with in any trade scenario.

 

As far as I'm concerned you could replace Hendry with any GM and my statement still holds the same value.

[JC]

See, I don't buy into the thinking that Corey was so rushed. I think the way he was handled once he got to the ML level was most damaging. Many teams have called up players earlier with lesser talent/batting eyes and had success. But Corey spent 1/2 of 2001 watching Michael Tucker and Delino DeShields play. He spent too much time getting yo-yoed from leadoff to 7th to 2nd to 5th in the lineup. He spent too much time being forced to learn how to bunt better, swing inside out, and being passive.

 

The too many cooks in the kitchen applies to Patterson, IMO.

 

I agree. I've never been a fan of the "he was rushed" explanation for his struggles. Corey's failure is related to his inability and/or unwillingness to learn/adapt, and the Cubs' inabiliy to find a way to get through to him, regardless of the level.

 

I still haven't seen a good reason why you try to dump him when his value is at its lowest.

[UK1679666180]

I would start Eric at Daytona but be ready to move him up given his age and experience.

 

I'd have no problem moving him up at some point, anyone within the organization, especially Zisk could give an accurate gauge as whether or not Patterson is ready to handle AA. That could be done in a short amount of time (within 20 games)

 

For Gallagher, I'd like to see him get at least 10 starts at Daytona. He'd likely be able to be very productive based on FB/curve combo and his ability to locate each pitch, but I'd like to see him mix in the change-up more at Daytona, something he might not be able to do if he does struggle initially at AA.

[Knyption]

you guys are viewing 'mistreatment' from a completely subjective perspective. i don't know if corey can take such a detached view of the situation. in his mind, he could think 6) the cubs retained control over him having no intention of keeping him, thus controlling where he played next season.

 

Perhaps the reason JH gave him 3 million was to actually HELP him!.

 

Anyone think that Hendry saying he had a good relationship with Corey is false? Perhaps if Corey was non-tendered he would be playing for the League Minimum. Perhaps Hendry was giving him a paycheck and told him behind closed doors that he was gonna send him somewhere.

 

Maybe patterson is fine with this.

 

The fact is that we do not know what happens behind the scenes so why speculate on this and that and what have you.

 

Corey didnt get the job done, simple.

 

If you are a sales man and dont sell squat do you expect to keep your job very long?

 

Cut the chain get him outta here

[Jehrico]

See, I don't buy into the thinking that Corey was so rushed. I think the way he was handled once he got to the ML level was most damaging. Many teams have called up players earlier with lesser talent/batting eyes and had success. But Corey spent 1/2 of 2001 watching Michael Tucker and Delino DeShields play. He spent too much time getting yo-yoed from leadoff to 7th to 2nd to 5th in the lineup. He spent too much time being forced to learn how to bunt better, swing inside out, and being passive.

 

The too many cooks in the kitchen applies to Patterson, IMO.

 

I agree. I've never been a fan of the "he was rushed" explanation for his struggles. Corey's failure is related to his inability and/or unwillingness to learn/adapt, and the Cubs' inabiliy to find a way to get through to him, regardless of the level.

 

I still haven't seen a good reason why you try to dump him when his value is at its lowest.

 

I think the thing tha hurt Corey the most wasn't calling him up too early, but rather, calling him up to sit on the bench. He spent alot of time on the pine during what should have been a crucial time in his development. If Baylor (one of the few managers that makes Dusty look good at handling young guys) had either played him or sent him down, I think he'd be alot better off.

[Mizzou]

See, I don't buy into the thinking that Corey was so rushed. I think the way he was handled once he got to the ML level was most damaging. Many teams have called up players earlier with lesser talent/batting eyes and had success. But Corey spent 1/2 of 2001 watching Michael Tucker and Delino DeShields play. He spent too much time getting yo-yoed from leadoff to 7th to 2nd to 5th in the lineup. He spent too much time being forced to learn how to bunt better, swing inside out, and being passive.

 

The too many cooks in the kitchen applies to Patterson, IMO.

 

I agree. I've never been a fan of the "he was rushed" explanation for his struggles. Corey's failure is related to his inability and/or unwillingness to learn/adapt, and the Cubs' inabiliy to find a way to get through to him, regardless of the level.

 

I still haven't seen a good reason why you try to dump him when his value is at its lowest.

I think one reason would be the monetary one. Why add a 3 million dollar player on the bench when you already have the 2.5 million dollar Neifi there? I know, I know... Neifi shouldn't be there. He is though.

[BigbadB]

[As much of a flashpoint as Neifi has been on this board, I don't think Fontenot would have been better. That said, there is no way in the world I would have given Neifi a two year contract worth $5 million, and I told the Cubs that (they told me I was entitled to my opinion).

 

Not to start a huge debate on comparisons between Neifi and Fontenot, but Fontenot is a much better all around hitter than Neifi, IMO. Neifi is better defensively.

 

Based on organizational philosophies, Neifi is a tools guy and Fontenot isn't. Neifi is good with the leather and can switch hit and doesn't strike out much. Fontenot is not as good with the leather, draws too many walks and strikes out more often than Neifi. Fontenot makes more happen when he does put a bat on the ball, however.

 

Fontenot isn't quite the second coming of Mark Bellhorn, but he's not that far off. Dusty had no use for a guy like Bellhorn. This organization just doesn't put any value on the ability to work the count and draw the occasional walk to get guys 90 feet closer to home.

[cubfanfromoz]

I don't believe the Cubs quick movement of Corey through the organization hindered his development. If Corey has the ability to deal with Major League pitching (now that they have the book on him) he'll be able to deal with it when he has the opportunity. More than anything he has regressed badly over time which leads me to believe (at this point)he just doesn't have the abilty to adapt to pitchers who have adapted to his hitting style.

[oldcubsfan]

[As much of a flashpoint as Neifi has been on this board, I don't think Fontenot would have been better. That said, there is no way in the world I would have given Neifi a two year contract worth $5 million, and I told the Cubs that (they told me I was entitled to my opinion).

 

Not to start a huge debate on comparisons between Neifi and Fontenot, but Fontenot is a much better all around hitter than Neifi, IMO. Neifi is better defensively.

 

Based on organizational philosophies, Neifi is a tools guy and Fontenot isn't. Neifi is good with the leather and can switch hit and doesn't strike out much. Fontenot is not as good with the leather, draws too many walks and strikes out more often than Neifi. Fontenot makes more happen when he does put a bat on the ball, however.

 

Fontenot isn't quite the second coming of Mark Bellhorn, but he's not that far off. Dusty had no use for a guy like Bellhorn. This organization just doesn't put any value on the ability to work the count and draw the occasional walk to get guys 90 feet closer to home.

Bellhorn has power which little Mike doesn't. Without the power, Bellhorn has no value either.

[BigbadB]

[As much of a flashpoint as Neifi has been on this board, I don't think Fontenot would have been better. That said, there is no way in the world I would have given Neifi a two year contract worth $5 million, and I told the Cubs that (they told me I was entitled to my opinion).

 

Not to start a huge debate on comparisons between Neifi and Fontenot, but Fontenot is a much better all around hitter than Neifi, IMO. Neifi is better defensively.

 

Based on organizational philosophies, Neifi is a tools guy and Fontenot isn't. Neifi is good with the leather and can switch hit and doesn't strike out much. Fontenot is not as good with the leather, draws too many walks and strikes out more often than Neifi. Fontenot makes more happen when he does put a bat on the ball, however.

 

Fontenot isn't quite the second coming of Mark Bellhorn, but he's not that far off. Dusty had no use for a guy like Bellhorn. This organization just doesn't put any value on the ability to work the count and draw the occasional walk to get guys 90 feet closer to home.

Bellhorn has power which little Mike doesn't. Without the power, Bellhorn has no value either.

 

How much power can one expect from a utility infielder? Given the current roster the Cubs have, would you rather have a sub .300 OBP/slick fielding utility infielder, or would you rather have a .340+ OBP/decent fielding utility infielder?

[oldcubsfan]

If I need a pinch hitter to draw a walk, I'd take Fontenot, other than that Perez.

[CubfaninCA]

[As much of a flashpoint as Neifi has been on this board, I don't think Fontenot would have been better. That said, there is no way in the world I would have given Neifi a two year contract worth $5 million, and I told the Cubs that (they told me I was entitled to my opinion).

 

Not to start a huge debate on comparisons between Neifi and Fontenot, but Fontenot is a much better all around hitter than Neifi, IMO. Neifi is better defensively.

 

Based on organizational philosophies, Neifi is a tools guy and Fontenot isn't. Neifi is good with the leather and can switch hit and doesn't strike out much. Fontenot is not as good with the leather, draws too many walks and strikes out more often than Neifi. Fontenot makes more happen when he does put a bat on the ball, however.

 

Fontenot isn't quite the second coming of Mark Bellhorn, but he's not that far off. Dusty had no use for a guy like Bellhorn. This organization just doesn't put any value on the ability to work the count and draw the occasional walk to get guys 90 feet closer to home.

Bellhorn has power which little Mike doesn't. Without the power, Bellhorn has no value either.

 

How much power can one expect from a utility infielder? Given the current roster the Cubs have, would you rather have a sub .300 OBP/slick fielding utility infielder, or would you rather have a .340+ OBP/decent fielding utility infielder?

 

Who's this .340 obp utility infielder you speak of?

[stitchface]

Fontenot draws too many walks

 

That the organization might think this is a negative pretty well sums up why I think they stink.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

[As much of a flashpoint as Neifi has been on this board, I don't think Fontenot would have been better. That said, there is no way in the world I would have given Neifi a two year contract worth $5 million, and I told the Cubs that (they told me I was entitled to my opinion).

 

Not to start a huge debate on comparisons between Neifi and Fontenot, but Fontenot is a much better all around hitter than Neifi, IMO. Neifi is better defensively.

 

Based on organizational philosophies, Neifi is a tools guy and Fontenot isn't. Neifi is good with the leather and can switch hit and doesn't strike out much. Fontenot is not as good with the leather, draws too many walks and strikes out more often than Neifi. Fontenot makes more happen when he does put a bat on the ball, however.

 

Fontenot isn't quite the second coming of Mark Bellhorn, but he's not that far off. Dusty had no use for a guy like Bellhorn. This organization just doesn't put any value on the ability to work the count and draw the occasional walk to get guys 90 feet closer to home.

Bellhorn has power which little Mike doesn't. Without the power, Bellhorn has no value either.

 

How much power can one expect from a utility infielder? Given the current roster the Cubs have, would you rather have a sub .300 OBP/slick fielding utility infielder, or would you rather have a .340+ OBP/decent fielding utility infielder?

 

Who's this .340 obp utility infielder you speak of?

 

That would be Fontenot. Who I think should put up those numbers in a utility role. He posted a 377 OBP in Iowa this year. He was 346 at AAA Ottawa in 2004, and 399 at AA Bowie in 2003. In 2001 at LSU he had a 450 OBP and a 452 OBP in 2000.

 

Hell, he had a 600 OBP with the Cubs this year. :D

 

As long as he was used properly and not over-exposed, I think he could easily post 340 OBP as a utility infielder off the bench.

[TXCubsFan]

As much of a flashpoint as Neifi has been on this board, I don't think Fontenot would have been better. That said, there is no way in the world I would have given Neifi a two year contract worth $5 million, and I told the Cubs that (they told me I was entitled to my opinion).

 

The only reason that I could see the Cubs locking Neifi! into such a rich contract was a negotiating leverage (a hedge) when trying to sign or trade for a middle infielder this season. Hendry might have felt that overpaying Neifi! a couple of million over two years might save the Cubs a valued prospect in a trade or five million in a long-term contract.

[fromthestretch]

If I need a pinch hitter to draw a walk, I'd take Fontenot, other than that Perez.

 

But if you need a pinch hitter to swing at the first pitch and ground into a double-play, Perez is your man.

[BigbadB]

If I need a pinch hitter to draw a walk, I'd take Fontenot, other than that Perez.

 

I can't compare their major league hitting since Fontenot has yet to get his shot, but minor league numbers show pretty comparable numbers with the bat. Both have about a .280 AVG in the minors with pretty comparable power. Fontenot has the added dimension of OBP.

[ThePenguin11]

FWIW someone on the chatboard at MLBtrade... is stating that Patterson for Meche is a done deal. Probably crap, but thought I'd throw it out there.

 

BREAKING NEWS

-------------

 

Trade announcement on Corey Patterson at 7:00 P.M.(CST). He is going to the Mariners for Gil Meche

 

SOURCE: KIRO radio

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/01/kaplan_cubs_try.html#comments

[stitchface]

FWIW someone on the chatboard at MLBtrade... is stating that Patterson for Meche is a done deal. Probably crap, but thought I'd throw it out there.

 

BREAKING NEWS

-------------

 

Trade announcement on Corey Patterson at 7:00 P.M.(CST). He is going to the Mariners for Gil Meche

 

SOURCE: KIRO radio

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/01/kaplan_cubs_try.html#comments

 

can the m's throw in reed as well?

[ThePenguin11]

FWIW someone on the chatboard at MLBtrade... is stating that Patterson for Meche is a done deal. Probably crap, but thought I'd throw it out there.

 

BREAKING NEWS

-------------

 

Trade announcement on Corey Patterson at 7:00 P.M.(CST). He is going to the Mariners for Gil Meche

 

SOURCE: KIRO radio

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/01/kaplan_cubs_try.html#comments

 

can the m's throw in reed as well?

 

Yeah, that would be nice. This is probably totally false, but it'd be nice to see us even package corey into a decent deal. Is it me or does being a Cub this offseason automatically mean you have no trade value?

 

Walker - none.

Patterson - zilch.

Pie - not what it was last July.

Hill - No one's kicking down Jim's door now.

Prior - Not what it should be.

 

What happened? Last year JH was in a position to tell teams that he wasn't trading Hill for Dunn and now Hill seems to have to be a throw-in.

[stitchface]

Hard to say without knowing inside information - it often seems like jim shows his hand too much too early. or he may just be playing it smart and not rushing things.

[BigbadB]

Patterson for Meche would surprise me. It doesn't seem like it would free up much money for a potential Tejada deal. Patterson for a B+ prospect or something of that nature frees up close to 3m, as would Walker if they found a way to move him. Could Walker be part of a deal for Tejada? Can Brian Roberts still play SS?

 

I suppose Hendry could make it work, but I was thinking they were getting tight on the budget. I guess the scary part of that is that Prior very well could be part of a deal for Tejada.

[RynoRules]

of course eric's going to give the 'business is business' line, but i think it's crazy to assume that what happened to corey doesn't at least cross eric's mind. i don't know if it's possible for eric to not harbor some ill feelings toward the cubs.

 

If he cannot learn to deal with that sort of issue and concentrate on himself then he has bigger problems.

 

why? where did i say it would affect his play on the field? all i'm saying is that if you perceived that an organization screwed over a family member, would you think very highly of that organization?

 

If its no going to effect his performance on the field, then who cares what he thinks of MacPhail of Hendry? Isn't his performance what counts?

[stitchface]

Patterson for Meche would surprise me. It doesn't seem like it would free up much money for a potential Tejada deal. Patterson for a B+ prospect or something of that nature frees up close to 3m, as would Walker if they found a way to move him. Could Walker be part of a deal for Tejada? Can Brian Roberts still play SS?

 

I suppose Hendry could make it work, but I was thinking they were getting tight on the budget. I guess the scary part of that is that Prior very well could be part of a deal for Tejada.

 

I think trading prior probably a 50 percent chance of being very regrettable.

[RynoRules]

Meche:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mechegi01.shtml

 

That's ugly.