2 Trade Rumors Heard from West Coast Source

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Boston can keep clement and that fat contract. i like williams AND his little contract.

 

You have some serious contract envy.

 

If the Cubs kept Reed would Dusty feel the need to play Grissom instead or does Reed have enough AB's to be Dustyproof?

 

I have absolutely no interest in Clement.

 

I would think the addition of Reed would mean Grissom would not be making the team at all. We don't need 6½ OF'ers

[CuseCubFan69]

Boston can keep clement and that fat contract. i like williams AND his little contract.

 

You have some serious contract envy.

 

If the Cubs kept Reed would Dusty feel the need to play Grissom instead or does Reed have enough AB's to be Dustyproof?

 

I have absolutely no interest in Clement.

 

I would think the addition of Reed would mean Grissom would not be making the team at all. We don't need 6½ OF'ers

 

True. I was just thinking if the Cubs traded Pierre who would be in CF.

[Derwood]

Does Kennedy bat lefty?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Does Kennedy bat lefty?

 

Yes.

[RynoRules]

Does Kennedy bat lefty?

 

Yup. Hehad a good year last year, though his "power" nos. were down:

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/kennead01.shtml

[TheDude]

If the Cubs insist on trading Walker, then Kennedy is a very reasonable replacement and a defensive upgrade. Kennedy doesn't have great range at 2B compared to the top guys, but rarely makes mistakes on the balls he gets to, so he's dependable. Oddly, his RF has dropped off .4 over the last two years.

 

The OBP is comparable. You lose about 10 HR and 10 doubles if you assume Walker gets closer to 500 ABs instead of 400.

[Diffusion]

(1) Corey Koskie to the Angels, Adam Kennedy to the Cubs and Todd Walker plus a prospect to the Blue Jays. No cash would be exchanged in the 3-way deal.

 

Why should the Cubs do this? It just makes no sense. Let's compare Adam Kennedy and Jerry Hairston.

 

Adam Kennedy has hit .290/.349/.407 over the last four years (the most favourable split for him), Jerry Hairston .274/.346/.378. Jerry Hairston has hit .277/.354/.379 over the last three years (the most favourable split for him), Adam Kennedy .282/.350/.392. I think it's fair to conclude then that Kennedy is slightly better with the bat, but that the difference is very slim. The fact that Kennedy bats left-handed is useful too.

 

Defensively both are slightly above average at second base, maybe a slight edge to Kennedy. Kennedy is also a better basestealer, though he's maybe not as fast as Hairston. I think it's fair to come to a conclusion that, overall, Kennedy is fractionally better than Hairston.

 

Kennedy being four months older than Hairston, that's not really much of a factor, and because Kennedy's reasonably priced at $3.35m for 2006 (before becoming a free agent), salary doesn't really come into it either. Hairston's also a free agent next winter by the way.

 

But what this boils down to is do you trade Walker/prospect for Kennedy and go with Kennedy(2B)/Hairston(Util), or do you go with Hairston(2B)/utility player to be named later (via FA, presumably, or Greenberg maybe), trading Walker, as part of a package if necessary, for the pitcher the Cubs are supposed to be looking for. There's simply no contest. You go for the latter option.

 

(2) Todd Walker, Corey Patterson and Rich Hill to Seattle for Raul Ibanez and Jeremy Reed; Reed and Jerome Williams would then be dealt to Boston for Matt Clement.

 

I'd probably do the first part of the deal as it is, though I'd try and exploit the Rich Hill supposed untouchable-ness and first inquire as to whether Seattle might throw in, say, Asdrubal Cabrera too. He's pretty surplus in the Seattle system, because they're just loaded with shortstops: Yuniesky Betancourt, Mike Morse, Jose Lopez and Adam Jones are all ahead of Cabrera on the depth chart right now, but Cabrera's a very young gold-glove shortstop with a really promising bat: .272/.330/.427 in 2004 aged 18 in short-season ball (239 AB), .318/.407/.474 in 2005 aged 19 at Low-A (192 AB), then .284/.325/.418 in 2005 still aged 19 at High-A (225 AB).

 

As for the second part of the deal, forget about it. We'd be much better off sticking with Reed, trading Pierre. One option would be to trade him for pitching (apparently he's worth a lot of that: Nolasco, Pinto and Mitre). Alternatively, try using Pierre, Williams and Cedeno or something like that to get Tejada, then the lineup would really be smoking: Barrett at C, Lee, Hairston, Tejada, Ramirez across the infield, Reed in CF and some combination of Ibanez/Jones/Murton in the corners. Plus Asdrubal Cabrera at Double-A maybe.

[anemic offense]

I like the first deal. Although I'm not (by ANY means) extremely familiar with Kennedy's overall game, I think he'd be an upgrade in both defense and speed (not that he's fast but he's faster than Walk). Also, in looking at his fairly high OBP numbers, he should be a pretty good number two hitter on this team. As much as I'd like to see Cedeno (or even Murton) in the spot that is something I can live with. He is also (I believe) a few years younger than Walk, which could be an added bonus.

 

As far as the second deal is concerned, not only do I not like it, I think it makes little sense (from a Cubs point of view) whatsoever. Granted, many of Hendry's deals defy the laws of logic, but if Hendry viewed Murton as strictly a platoon player then why hasn't his name surfaced in any of the rumored deals??? If Hendry DOESN't view Murton as a platoon player, then he'd be setting his development back a full year in making him platoon with Jones (especially after all the time he got last year). Not to mention, if Hendry does/would bring in Ibanez, just what exactly are his OF plans for the future?? Does this put him in "wait and see mode" with Ibanez and Pierre, providing Pie doesn't fall on his face in AAA this season? Or does he view either or as permanent replacements, with the other OF prospects becoming trade bait? I'm trying pretty hard, but I just don't see how the number 2 deal makes any sense whatsoever. And that's not even considering the negaitve ramifications of bringing Clement back on board.

[anemic offense]

(1) Corey Koskie to the Angels, Adam Kennedy to the Cubs and Todd Walker plus a prospect to the Blue Jays. No cash would be exchanged in the 3-way deal.

 

Why should the Cubs do this? It just makes no sense. Let's compare Adam Kennedy and Jerry Hairston.

 

Adam Kennedy has hit .290/.349/.407 over the last four years (the most favourable split for him), Jerry Hairston .274/.346/.378. Jerry Hairston has hit .277/.354/.379 over the last three years (the most favourable split for him), Adam Kennedy .282/.350/.392. I think it's fair to conclude then that Kennedy is slightly better with the bat, but that the difference is very slim. The fact that Kennedy bats left-handed is useful too.

 

Defensively both are slightly above average at second base, maybe a slight edge to Kennedy. Kennedy is also a better basestealer, though he's maybe not as fast as Hairston. I think it's fair to come to a conclusion that, overall, Kennedy is fractionally better than Hairston.

 

Kennedy being four months older than Hairston, that's not really much of a factor, and because Kennedy's reasonably priced at $3.35m for 2006 (before becoming a free agent), salary doesn't really come into it either. Hairston's also a free agent next winter by the way.

 

But what this boils down to is do you trade Walker/prospect for Kennedy and go with Kennedy(2B)/Hairston(Util), or do you go with Hairston(2B)/utility player to be named later (via FA, presumably, or Greenberg maybe), trading Walker, as part of a package if necessary, for the pitcher the Cubs are supposed to be looking for. There's simply no contest. You go for the latter option.

 

(2) Todd Walker, Corey Patterson and Rich Hill to Seattle for Raul Ibanez and Jeremy Reed; Reed and Jerome Williams would then be dealt to Boston for Matt Clement.

 

I'd probably do the first part of the deal as it is, though I'd try and exploit the Rich Hill supposed untouchable-ness and first inquire as to whether Seattle might throw in, say, Asdrubal Cabrera too. He's pretty surplus in the Seattle system, because they're just loaded with shortstops: Yuniesky Betancourt, Mike Morse, Jose Lopez and Adam Jones are all ahead of Cabrera on the depth chart right now, but Cabrera's a very young gold-glove shortstop with a really promising bat: .272/.330/.427 in 2004 aged 18 in short-season ball (239 AB), .318/.407/.474 in 2005 aged 19 at Low-A (192 AB), then .284/.325/.418 in 2005 still aged 19 at High-A (225 AB).

 

As for the second part of the deal, forget about it. We'd be much better off sticking with Reed, trading Pierre. One option would be to trade him for pitching (apparently he's worth a lot of that: Nolasco, Pinto and Mitre). Alternatively, try using Pierre, Williams and Cedeno or something like that to get Tejada, then the lineup would really be smoking: Barrett at C, Lee, Hairston, Tejada, Ramirez across the infield, Reed in CF and some combination of Ibanez/Jones/Murton in the corners. Plus Asdrubal Cabrera at Double-A maybe.

 

What would become of Asdrubal then? With Tejada pretty much locked in at short for 4 more years I'm assuming you'd move him to 2B (or move Miggy over if/when this kid is ready). But then we also have Epatt. My guess is you'd be wanting to see which one of the two pans out the best leaving the oddman out as future trade bait for Hendry.

[E.J.]

Crazy Trade Rumor Guy is at it again.

 

A reliable source told me today about a three-way deal that is "imminent." It's always risky to throw around "imminent," but I'm just quoting him here.

 

Here's the scenario:

 

BOS gives: Bronson Arroyo, Tony Graffanino, PTBNL

 

BOS gets: Jeremy Reed, Will Ohman

 

CHC gives: Corey Patterson, Ohman

 

CHC gets: Raul Ibanez, Graffanino, cash

 

SEA gives: Reed, Ibanez, cash

 

SEA gets: Arroyo, Patterson, PTBNL

 

Let's evaluate. There's no doubt the Cubs would be making out like bandits in this trade. Corey Patterson is useless to them, even as a fourth outfielder. 28 year-old lefty Ohman tossed a solid 43 innings this year, and seems recovered from his January 2002 Tommy John surgery.

 

I don't even know how to comment on that. :lol:

[Mizzou]

Wow, Seattle is getting royally screwed in that deal.

[Diffusion]

What would become of Asdrubal then? With Tejada pretty much locked in at short for 4 more years I'm assuming you'd move him to 2B (or move Miggy over if/when this kid is ready). But then we also have Epatt. My guess is you'd be wanting to see which one of the two pans out the best leaving the oddman out as future trade bait for Hendry.

 

Trade Miggy after 2007 for a fortune in pitching just as he's about to explode into flames with $30m/2yrs still left on his deal, and play Asdrubal in his place! In the meantime, make sure before you deal Tejada you get the necessary big bat corner OF in place so that you can easily weather losing Tejada's production: signing Adam Dunn as a free agent after 2007 would work.

 

So... C, Lee, 2B, Asdrubal, Ramirez, Dunn, Reed and Murton in 2008!

 

Seriously, I dunno. I just liked the idea of it.

[CubfaninCA]

I really like Hairston as a utility guy, but he lacks the durability to be relied upon as an everyday player.

[JeffH]

(1) Corey Koskie to the Angels, Adam Kennedy to the Cubs and Todd Walker plus a prospect to the Blue Jays. No cash would be exchanged in the 3-way deal.

 

Angels would play Koskie at 3B/DH, and move recently acquired Edgardo Alfonzo to 2B; Cubs would play Kennedy at 2B and bat him 2nd behind Pierre; Walker would play some 2B and DH. The prospect would be low level.

 

Take it with a grain of salt.

Hoops

 

At first glance, that Walker-Kennedy-Koskie rumor seems fairly equitable.

 

However, Koskie is guaranteed $11 over the next two seasons and has a fairly easily vested $6.5 option for 2008.

 

Is the difference between Kennedy-Alfonzo and Koskie-Alfonzo worth the extra financial commitment?

 

I realize that the Angels would probably like to make room for Kendrick at 2B, but they could do that by simply letting Kennedy's deal expire.

 

The one way that this might make sense for the Angels is if they've soured on McPherson as an everyday 3B.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I like Crazy Rumor Guy's deal--Patterson and Ohman for Ibanez and Graffanino? Sign me up! I don't even need or want Graffanino, just make it Patterson and Ohman for Ibanez and I'd be happy.

 

Then, you'd have Murton and Walker expendable to be part of a package for....Barry Zito. Give Beane one of Rich Hill or Angel Guzman to go with them, and let's call it an offseason at that point.

 

We'd still likely have to deal with Neifi getting over 100 starts on the season, a three-way split between him, Cedeno and Hairston at 2B/SS could work. So long as they are at the bottom of the order they can't hurt us THAT bad.

 

Top of order could be Pierre, Jones/Grissom pure platoon, Lee, Ibanez, Ramirez and Barrett. Not bad. Rotation would be Z, Prior, Zito, Maddux and Williams, that's pretty darn good. Rusch replaces Ohman in the pen. You still have one of Hill or Guzman in Iowa. The bullpen is loaded. And maybe Wood can give us something before mid-season.

[rawaction]

I like Crazy Rumor Guy's deal--Patterson and Ohman for Ibanez and Graffanino? Sign me up! I don't even need or want Graffanino, just make it Patterson and Ohman for Ibanez and I'd be happy.

 

Then, you'd have Murton and Walker expendable to be part of a package for....Barry Zito. Give Beane one of Rich Hill or Angel Guzman to go with them, and let's call it an offseason at that point.

 

We'd still likely have to deal with Neifi getting over 100 starts on the season, a three-way split between him, Cedeno and Hairston at 2B/SS could work. So long as they are at the bottom of the order they can't hurt us THAT bad.

 

Top of order could be Pierre, Jones/Grissom pure platoon, Lee, Ibanez, Ramirez and Barrett. Not bad. Rotation would be Z, Prior, Zito, Maddux and Williams, that's pretty darn good. Rusch replaces Ohman in the pen. You still have one of Hill or Guzman in Iowa. The bullpen is loaded. And maybe Wood can give us something before mid-season.

 

Jones/Grissom batting #2 would be horrible. Ibanez ahead of Ramirez isn't good either. The rotation I like.

[treebird]

I like Crazy Rumor Guy's deal--Patterson and Ohman for Ibanez and Graffanino? Sign me up! I don't even need or want Graffanino, just make it Patterson and Ohman for Ibanez and I'd be happy.

 

Then, you'd have Murton and Walker expendable to be part of a package for....Barry Zito. Give Beane one of Rich Hill or Angel Guzman to go with them, and let's call it an offseason at that point.

 

We'd still likely have to deal with Neifi getting over 100 starts on the season, a three-way split between him, Cedeno and Hairston at 2B/SS could work. So long as they are at the bottom of the order they can't hurt us THAT bad.

 

Top of order could be Pierre, Jones/Grissom pure platoon, Lee, Ibanez, Ramirez and Barrett. Not bad. Rotation would be Z, Prior, Zito, Maddux and Williams, that's pretty darn good. Rusch replaces Ohman in the pen. You still have one of Hill or Guzman in Iowa. The bullpen is loaded. And maybe Wood can give us something before mid-season.

 

MARK ELLIS

 

316/384/477

 

and he's 28 years old. and he plays excellent defense.

 

the a's don't want todd walker. not even at 1b/dh, where they've already got swisher and johnson, with no room for either in the of.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Crazy Trade Rumor Guy is at it again.

 

A reliable source told me today about a three-way deal that is "imminent." It's always risky to throw around "imminent," but I'm just quoting him here.

 

Here's the scenario:

 

BOS gives: Bronson Arroyo, Tony Graffanino, PTBNL

 

BOS gets: Jeremy Reed, Will Ohman

 

CHC gives: Corey Patterson, Ohman

 

CHC gets: Raul Ibanez, Graffanino, cash

 

SEA gives: Reed, Ibanez, cash

 

SEA gets: Arroyo, Patterson, PTBNL

 

Let's evaluate. There's no doubt the Cubs would be making out like bandits in this trade. Corey Patterson is useless to them, even as a fourth outfielder. 28 year-old lefty Ohman tossed a solid 43 innings this year, and seems recovered from his January 2002 Tommy John surgery.

 

 

 

 

I don't even know how to comment on that. :lol:

I read that same rumor on the Orioles Hangout last night from a Boston poster who said he had heard it from a friend in the Boston media. I'm betting that's where MLBtraderumors picked it up, but they guy wants it to sound like he has an independent source.

 

There's a lot of flaws in the above deal as I see them. I think Seattle would want more for Reed and Ibanez than just Arroyo, Patterson and a PTBNL.

 

Getting Ibanez and Graffanino for simply Patterson and Arroyo is great for the Cubs.

 

 

None of those players are making exorbiant salaries, so I don't see why any cash would change hands. Also, adding Graffanino would add another middle infielder and we have too many of those as it is.

[HoopsCubs]

(1) Corey Koskie to the Angels, Adam Kennedy to the Cubs and Todd Walker plus a prospect to the Blue Jays. No cash would be exchanged in the 3-way deal.

 

Angels would play Koskie at 3B/DH, and move recently acquired Edgardo Alfonzo to 2B; Cubs would play Kennedy at 2B and bat him 2nd behind Pierre; Walker would play some 2B and DH. The prospect would be low level.

 

 

(2) Todd Walker, Corey Patterson and Rich Hill to Seattle for Raul Ibanez and Jeremy Reed; Reed and Jerome Williams would then be dealt to Boston for Matt Clement.

 

Ibanez would play LF, and Murton would platoon with Jones.

 

 

Take it with a grain of salt.

Hoops

 

Update on these:

 

(1) Koskie, Kennedy, Walker still has some life, but the Blue Jays aren't as high on Walker as they were three days ago, and the Angels seem distracted with the potential of signing Jeff Weaver.

 

(2) Seattle does not want to deal Ibanez until mid-season. Boston still wants Reed, but are not willing to trade Clement for him; Seattle does not want Arroyo or Wells for Reed. Seattle is willing to trade Reed to Boston if a third team enters the picture and takes on Arroyo from Boston in return for a CF and pitching prospect. I.e., Seattle wants the Cubs to give them Patterson and Rich Hill with Reed going to Boston and Arroyo coming to the Cubs.

 

That doesn't seem like a good deal for the Cubs. I wonder if Boston would go for a Patterson for Arroyo straight up deal, and then Boston could package Patterson and one of their own pitching prospects for Reed.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

(1) Corey Koskie to the Angels, Adam Kennedy to the Cubs and Todd Walker plus a prospect to the Blue Jays. No cash would be exchanged in the 3-way deal.

 

Angels would play Koskie at 3B/DH, and move recently acquired Edgardo Alfonzo to 2B; Cubs would play Kennedy at 2B and bat him 2nd behind Pierre; Walker would play some 2B and DH. The prospect would be low level.

 

 

(2) Todd Walker, Corey Patterson and Rich Hill to Seattle for Raul Ibanez and Jeremy Reed; Reed and Jerome Williams would then be dealt to Boston for Matt Clement.

 

Ibanez would play LF, and Murton would platoon with Jones.

 

 

Take it with a grain of salt.

Hoops

 

Update on these:

 

(1) Koskie, Kennedy, Walker still has some life, but the Blue Jays aren't as high on Walker as they were three days ago, and the Angels seem distracted with the potential of signing Jeff Weaver.

 

(2) Seattle does not want to deal Ibanez until mid-season. Boston still wants Reed, but are not willing to trade Clement for him; Seattle does not want Arroyo or Wells for Reed. Seattle is willing to trade Reed to Boston if a third team enters the picture and takes on Arroyo from Boston in return for a CF and pitching prospect. I.e., Seattle wants the Cubs to give them Patterson and Rich Hill with Reed going to Boston and Arroyo coming to the Cubs.

 

That doesn't seem like a good deal for the Cubs. I wonder if Boston would go for a Patterson for Arroyo straight up deal, and then Boston could package Patterson and one of their own pitching prospects for Reed.

 

Since I wouldn't deal Hill for Arroyo, I have no interest in this deal at all.

[UK1679666180]

That doesn't seem like a good deal for the Cubs. I wonder if Boston would go for a Patterson for Arroyo straight up deal, and then Boston could package Patterson and one of their own pitching prospects for Reed.

 

I don't see what Arroyo would provide except an awkward and unbalanced leg kick.

 

He's basically a #5 starter and the Cubs have that with Rusch, Williams, and a potential decline from Maddux.

[HoopsCubs]

That doesn't seem like a good deal for the Cubs. I wonder if Boston would go for a Patterson for Arroyo straight up deal, and then Boston could package Patterson and one of their own pitching prospects for Reed.

 

I don't see what Arroyo would provide except an awkward and unbalanced leg kick.

 

He's basically a #5 starter and the Cubs have that with Rusch, Williams, and a potential decline from Maddux.

 

I get the sense that Hendry doesn't believe Rusch or Williams could give him 180 IP with 32 starts. Arroyo probably could.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

That doesn't seem like a good deal for the Cubs. I wonder if Boston would go for a Patterson for Arroyo straight up deal, and then Boston could package Patterson and one of their own pitching prospects for Reed.

 

I don't see what Arroyo would provide except an awkward and unbalanced leg kick.

 

He's basically a #5 starter and the Cubs have that with Rusch, Williams, and a potential decline from Maddux.

 

I get the sense that Hendry doesn't believe Rusch or Williams could give him 180 IP with 32 starts. Arroyo probably could.

 

Is what Arroyo would give us worth Hill? I don't think so. If the Mariners will take Ryu or Marmol, fine. Not for Hill.

[UK1679666180]

That doesn't seem like a good deal for the Cubs. I wonder if Boston would go for a Patterson for Arroyo straight up deal, and then Boston could package Patterson and one of their own pitching prospects for Reed.

 

I don't see what Arroyo would provide except an awkward and unbalanced leg kick.

 

He's basically a #5 starter and the Cubs have that with Rusch, Williams, and a potential decline from Maddux.

 

I get the sense that Hendry doesn't believe Rusch or Williams could give him 180 IP with 32 starts. Arroyo probably could.

 

I've never understood this concept, you're (not you Hoops) worried about the durability of a starter making 30+ starts and have a manager who puts his pitchers thru an increased workload. It's as if he would be looking for the most rubber-armed pitcher to compromise or to mend original flawed logic w/more flawed logic.

 

You want to increase the chances of having your starters make 30 starts? Monitor their fatigue better, skip a start if the fatigue seems to be carrying over from the previous start. Improve their pre-hab, look for improvements in their diet as well as their recovery time and off-season workout programs.

 

But, overspending for mediocrity simply for durability would makes no sense.

 

FTR, Rusch avg'd 193 innings for 3 starights years between '00 and '02 I believe and Williams had 188IP in '03 as well as 177.2 IP in 20 starts and 2 appear. out of the pen last year.

[fromthestretch]

That doesn't seem like a good deal for the Cubs. I wonder if Boston would go for a Patterson for Arroyo straight up deal, and then Boston could package Patterson and one of their own pitching prospects for Reed.

 

I don't see what Arroyo would provide except an awkward and unbalanced leg kick.

 

He's basically a #5 starter and the Cubs have that with Rusch, Williams, and a potential decline from Maddux.

 

I get the sense that Hendry doesn't believe Rusch or Williams could give him 180 IP with 32 starts. Arroyo probably could.

 

I'm confident they could get that from Williams, and he'd probably put up better numbers in the process.