Cards Sign Looper to 3-year Deal

[YearofDaCubs]

Man if hendry would have made this signing, he would have been hung already. That's all I'm gonna say.

I'm glad we ended up with Howry over Looper that's for sure.

[EastonBlues22]

Upside of the signing: Looper is insane against righties, is a groundball pitcher, has productive closing experience, has been healthy/durable for almost all of his career, has solid career numbers, and has the potential to be a solid (if unspectacular) closer post-Izzy in 08 for the paltry price of $5.5 million + incentives.

 

Downside: Much worse stats against lefties (especially bad last year), the uncertainty of coming off surgery, will likely never be "dominant" in any way, shape, or form.

 

My opinion: I wish the pricetag had been a few million less...but I generally feel very good about his chances of coming here and putting up competitve stats. If he eventually settles back into the 2004 form he flashed, he could be a great signing and an absolute steal as a closer in 2008. As it is, I think it's currently a mediocre signing that fills a need...with a small chance of being a very bad signing, and a significantly greater chance than that of being a good to very good signing.

[Outshined_One]

Looper will either be hurt too often to hurt the Cardinals or, much more likely, fill that set-up man slot ridiculously well and have a (name any White Sox reliever)-esque year.

 

Luis Vizcaino? :twisted:

[snoodmonger]

From Rotoworld:

 

Braden Looper - R - Cardinals

 

 

Cardinals signed RHP Braden Looper, who had been with the Mets, to a three-year, $13.5 million contract.

He'll earn $3.5 million in 2006, $4.5 million in 2007 and $5.5 million in 2008. Included are up to $1 million in bonuses, some of them based on games finished in case he becomes the closer. Dec. 15 - 8:44 pm et

 

How come rotoworld always has a saracstic remark about our crappy signings but played it straight with this turd?

[Rob]

Oh, I'd just like to point this out before anybody else does...

 

In 1998, the one and only year he pitched for the Cards... he posted a k/9 of 10.8

 

In the rest of his years combined, his k/9 rate has been 5.58.

 

While I still don't like the signing... if his previous level of cards luck holds up, he'll be a monster.

 

Then again, that one year he pitched 3 and a third innings and posted a 5.40 ERA... so you never know.

[Andy]

Looper will either be hurt too often to hurt the Cardinals or, much more likely, fill that set-up man slot ridiculously well and have a (name any White Sox reliever)-esque year.

 

Luis Vizcaino? :twisted:

He's not on the White Sox anymore. They dumped his useless rear end and got Vazquez as their number five starter. :x

 

Man if hendry would have made this signing, he would have been hung already. That's all I'm gonna say.

Well, considering he's already thrown money at two other set-up men, then yeah, he would have been hung.

[Outshined_One]

Looper will either be hurt too often to hurt the Cardinals or, much more likely, fill that set-up man slot ridiculously well and have a (name any White Sox reliever)-esque year.

 

Luis Vizcaino? :twisted:

He's not on the White Sox anymore. They dumped his useless rear end and got Vazquez as their number five starter. :x

 

I was referring to this past season.

 

I'm waiting and seeing on that trade, though. Vaz gives up an inordinate number of HRs and is going to one of the most HR-friendly parks in baseball. Also, I'm fairly high on Chris Young, the CF they gave up in that deal. The D'backs had a huge hole in CF, and now they could plug it in the near future with some one who has really nice potential.

[UMFan83]

What is the line on "Cardinals use him for 1-2 years and then find a way to trade him before he makes 5.5 million"?

 

How can people hate on the Cubs for signing Dempster for 3/15 and then praise the Cards for signing Looper for 3/13.5?

[badger1679666666]

Looper will either be hurt too often to hurt the Cardinals or, much more likely, fill that set-up man slot ridiculously well and have a (name any White Sox reliever)-esque year.

 

Luis Vizcaino? :twisted:

He's not on the White Sox anymore. They dumped his useless rear end and got Vazquez as their number five starter. :x

 

Man if hendry would have made this signing, he would have been hung already. That's all I'm gonna say.

Well, considering he's already thrown money at two other set-up men, then yeah, he would have been hung.

 

I meant if he would have made it period. Not counting Eyre or Howry. 13.5 million for Looper is laughable.

[Mizzou]

If Hendry signs this guy, there would be exreme pandemonium (sp?) going on on this board. Since WaltJ signed him, it's not a big deal. That's the general consensus I'm vibing.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but this board is getting ridiculouslsy anti-hendry...and anti-Cubs in the process.

[badger1679666666]

What is the line on "Cardinals use him for 1-2 years and then find a way to trade him before he makes 5.5 million"?

 

How can people hate on the Cubs for signing Dempster for 3/15 and then praise the Cards for signing Looper for 3/13.5?

 

Because they are Cubs fans, and everything in the history of baseball has gone against them?

 

(I use "them", because I wasn't criticizing the Cubs for Dempster, Howry, or Eyre, but I guess it's understandable when you've been a Cubs fan for so long).

[PieOnMyHands]

I really hate the argument that so-and-so will pitch better in front of team x's defense, so this is a good signing. If the defense is great and every pitcher will be great in front of it, why not just sign crappy guys for the minimum?

 

Uhm, then you must not like logic. Looper has a GB:FB ratio of 2.00 over his career. Clearly, a groundball pitcher is going to be more reliant on his defense than is a strikeout/flyball pitcher. Clearly, a better defense will result in more success. That's common sense. How is it a bad argument?

 

And to address the second part of your question... obviously the "average joe" pitcher doesn't have severe GB:FB ratios.

[PieOnMyHands]

And lemme add that I really like our set-up men this year; while they're both coming off of poor seasons...

 

Over the last three years:

Looper vs. righties: .231 AVG (.229 career), .574 OPS (4 HR in 464 ABs)

Rincon vs. lefties: .217 AVG (.208 career), .595 OPS (5 HR in 258 ABs)

(The reason I post the career averages is because the two pitchers' stats may be inflated a little from poor 2005 season; wehther that's a sign of things to come or whether it was a bit of an abberation has yet to be determined, obviously...)

 

For a team with a matchup-loving manager like Tony LaRussa, these moves clearly make sense.

[Diffusion]

If Hendry signs this guy, there would be exreme pandemonium (sp?) going on on this board. Since WaltJ signed him, it's not a big deal. That's the general consensus I'm vibing.

 

Vibe something else. Like the fact that hardly anyone here actually cares much for the Cardinals, certainly not enough to get worked up and angry when they make stupid moves, such as this one.

[ManEatingTarp]

Man if hendry would have made this signing, he would have been hung already. That's all I'm gonna say.

 

He already did.

Twice!

[ManEatingTarp]

Upside of the signing: Looper is insane against righties, is a groundball pitcher, has productive closing experience, has been healthy/durable for almost all of his career, has solid career numbers, and has the potential to be a solid (if unspectacular) closer post-Izzy in 08 for the paltry price of $5.5 million + incentives.

 

Downside: Much worse stats against lefties (especially bad last year), the uncertainty of coming off surgery, will likely never be "dominant" in any way, shape, or form.

 

My opinion: I wish the pricetag had been a few million less...but I generally feel very good about his chances of coming here and putting up competitve stats. If he eventually settles back into the 2004 form he flashed, he could be a great signing and an absolute steal as a closer in 2008. As it is, I think it's currently a mediocre signing that fills a need...with a small chance of being a very bad signing, and a significantly greater chance than that of being a good to very good signing.

 

What he said.

;)

[ThePenguin11]

If Hendry signs this guy, there would be exreme pandemonium (sp?) going on on this board. Since WaltJ signed him, it's not a big deal. That's the general consensus I'm vibing.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but this board is getting ridiculouslsy anti-hendry...and anti-Cubs in the process.

 

I've noticed this too...

[K-Town]

They key is that Looper and Rincon (as already detailed by PieOnMyHands) are EXCELLENT when used wisely. Looper absolutely dominates righties (righties have hit .231 against him over the last 3 years, with only 4 homers in 464 at-bats), and Rincon is very good against lefties (lefties hit .217 against him over the last 3 years).

 

Looper's problem was that, as a closer, he had to face alot of lefties. As a situational late-inning pitcher, and knowing Larussa, Looper will be put in situations where he'll be VERY successful. Same for Rincon. If Looper and Rincon are used situationally, as Tavarez and King were used, then this not only COULD be an upgrade, but it SHOULD be.

 

Assume Thompson taking Eldred's place, and possibly more bullpen help on the way, and I think the pen is definitely shaping up to be a strength in '06.

[K-Town]

If Hendry signs this guy, there would be exreme pandemonium (sp?) going on on this board. Since WaltJ signed him, it's not a big deal. That's the general consensus I'm vibing.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but this board is getting ridiculouslsy anti-hendry...and anti-Cubs in the process.

 

That's because Dusty Baker has no clue how to read splits on guys like Looper, and so there wouldn't be much chance of him succeeding with the Cubs. Larussa is a master at using pitchers situationally.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Well one thing I like about the Looper and Rincon signings is that Tony LeftRightLeft LaRusa will either have to burn his relievers quickly in the same inning or will be forced to leave one of these guys in a precarious position. If Looper is only facing righties, he's way overpaid for that duty.

[UK1679666180]

The off-season of overpaying for situational pitchers continues.

 

That's because Dusty Baker has no clue how to read splits on guys like Looper, and so there wouldn't be much chance of him succeeding with the Cubs. Larussa is a master at using pitchers situationally.

 

Dead wrong, Looper and Rincon are perfect for Baker. Looper does well vs. RH'ers and Rincon does well vs. Lh'ers. It's a straight R/R or L/L matchup, it goes by the book, Baker would just as well as LaRussa as far as managing them. If Rincon's best pitch was a change-up and he did better vs. Rh'ers, Baker and the Cubs would be in trouble.

[Bull]

On a side note...

 

Does anybody else find it odd that the link points to the Atlanta Braves site on MLB.com?

 

replace the atlanta.braves with stlouis.cardinals, and you get the same page. I think you could substitute any mlb team and get the same page. How he got the Atlanta link I don't know.

 

I'm guessing it was accessed from a link at the bottom of the Braves mlb page.

[E.J.]

On a side note...

 

Does anybody else find it odd that the link points to the Atlanta Braves site on MLB.com?

 

replace the atlanta.braves with stlouis.cardinals, and you get the same page. I think you could substitute any mlb team and get the same page. How he got the Atlanta link I don't know.

 

I'm guessing it was accessed from a link at the bottom of the Braves mlb page.

 

I got the link off of Google News. I don't know why it came from the Braves site. :scratch:

[E.J.]

If Hendry signs this guy, there would be exreme pandemonium (sp?) going on on this board. Since WaltJ signed him, it's not a big deal. That's the general consensus I'm vibing.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but this board is getting ridiculouslsy anti-hendry...and anti-Cubs in the process.

 

It's not a big deal because he's playing for the Cardinals. If I were a Cardinal fan I'd be up in arms at this signing, but since I'm not I'm a happy camper. I think Looper is going to bomb in St. Louis.

[Wheelimus]

Yeah, Dusty seems to do fine with lefty/righty matchups so long as it's textbook. So long as the lefty is killer against lefties, we're fine. Same with the righty (killer against righties). We're only screwed when a guy has reverse splits (see: Remlinger, Mike) and Dusty's brain can't wrap itself around reversing what "da book" says you should do.